You might have missed this, assuming that, unlike me, you don’t comb the NYT sports pages for odd little items like this. According to a report in Saturday’s paper, Irish tenor Ronan Tynan, a “a fixture at Yankee Stadium for years with his stirring rendition of God Bless America” during the 7th inning stretch, was supposed to sing at Friday’s opening game of the ALCS but was disinvited by the Yankees because of some unfortunate comments he was reported to have made the day before. Apparently, a real estate agent was showing Tynan and apartment and, jokingly, referred to other inhabitants of the building by saying “Don’t worry — they’re not Red Sox fans,” at which point Tynan responded: “I don’t care about that — as long as they’re not Jewish.”
The quintessentially New York remark – combining the Irish, the Jews, the Yankees, the Red Sox — and real estate!!
The outcry was loud and predictable. But in all seriousness – what’s really so terrible about what Tynan said? I happen to be Jewish myself (and a New Yorker to boot), and I think my antennae for serious anti-Semitic remarks are pretty well-tuned. But Tynan doesn’t like Jews – what’s the big deal when he says so? Unless you deny that Jews have any distinguishing characteristics — and no Jews I know (especially no New York Jews, for goodness sake, would say such a thing) then one has to expect that some folks aren’t going to like those characteristics — we’re too intellectual, too noisy, too argumentative, too this or too that. Tynan doesn’t want to live around us – bully for him (though he’s going to have a helluva time finding an apartment in NYC!). I know lots of people who aren’t crazy about Italians, or Irish, or African-Americans – that too is part of the American stew, and I wish we were all a little less sensitive about the whole thing. I know that terrible, terrible things have happened in the name of anti-Jewish (and anti-Irish, and anti-black, etc.) sentiments – but we really have come a fair way from all that, and I wonder if we’re overdoing it a little with our sanctimony. Maybe we could all use a dose of good old-fashioned harmless prejudice – God Bless America!
Cato The Elder says:
Amen! A thousand times amen! It seems to me nowadays people actively search for things to get offended about; I hate it.
October 18, 2009, 5:03 pmChrisTS says:
Funny. He doesn’t look Irish.
October 18, 2009, 5:03 pmMark Field says:
Some of us think that it’s useful to discourage anti-social behavior such as racist comments and farting in public. The world is a better place if we discourage (without government intervention, let it be noted) others from selfishly making life worse for everyone around them.
October 18, 2009, 5:05 pmAnon Y. Mous says:
Since the remark to him was in jest, perhaps his response was in kind?
October 18, 2009, 5:07 pmRPT says:
How long until he appears on the Rush Limbaugh show?
October 18, 2009, 5:08 pmChrisTS says:
Unfortunately, he made the remark in the presence of – possibly to – a Jewish woman looking at the building. Apparently,he has apologized to her.
October 18, 2009, 5:15 pmSueSimp says:
I know nothing about Tynan or the situation, but at first glance, it looks to me like the sort of exchange that would be meant as a joke for its shock value. At least if it were made between friends — that it was a joke does seem a little less likely if made in a statement to a real estate agent.
But beyond that, David Post’s comment is kind of bizarre. I completely get objecting to turning the matter into the source of a legal dispute, I’d be entirely on board with him there. But is he really criticizing America because it is culturally disapproved of to engage in irrational dislike of a particular insular group? And getting misty eyed over “good old-fashioned harmless prejudice”? Wtf?
I’m going to hope this whole post was a joke I’m too slow to catch, because otherwise it’s pretty awful.
October 18, 2009, 5:22 pmgab says:
Is your post satire? If so, kudos, cuz it’s plenty funny. If not, then you’re a friggin’ idiot.
October 18, 2009, 5:22 pmChrisTS says:
“you’re a friggin idiot”
Nice of you to raise the level of discourse.
October 18, 2009, 5:29 pmPersonFromPorlock says:
David Post: Hoo boy! No soup for you!
October 18, 2009, 5:41 pmArrowSmith says:
What if he said he didn’t like blacks? I suspect this post would be very different. Jews continue to get the short end of the stick in America.
October 18, 2009, 5:49 pmpc says:
And no Matzah ball soup Tynan.
October 18, 2009, 5:54 pmOh well.... says:
Sounds like the outcry is from people who don’t like people who are vocal in their antipathy towards Jews. From where I sit, that sounds about as justified as someone not liking Jews to begin with. Assuming Mr. Tynan doesn’t suffer any worse fate than losing his job singing for the NY Yankees, I don’t think there is much to raise a fuss about in this situation.
October 18, 2009, 5:56 pmCato The Elder says:
I, too, am quite “selfish” in my personal prejudices, in that they trump the preferences of some random anonymous person who takes slight to them. In a sane world, the allowability of saying something “offensive” in the presence of another would be directly proportional to the strength of the acquaintance between us. It would rude and chastisable, for example, to knowingly speak as Mr. Tynan did in front of one’s Jewish mother-in-law. Slightly less so, to speak as a Neanderthal conservative on illegal immigration in front of one’s Mexican-American coworker.
Moreover I hold that simple declarative statements of fact, tempered and properly calibrated per the limits of the English language, should not be considered offensive. The only way to progress past the endless kabuki dance of taking offense, and then seething at being stifled, is to use the knowledge contained therein for socially uplifting purposes. If liberals doubt their opponents’ commitment to such purposes they should merely note that they are not above calling others equally offensive epithets that their side regards as obvious facts, e.g., that Goldwater was “clearly” racist for opposing the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
Basically, to ask everyone, everywhere, to walk on pins and needles in every conversation in the hope that someone, somewhere, does not take offense is crossing the bounds of common civility. The power of speech that civility grants, like any other personal power one delegates, is going to be abused without monitoring. I don’t think what we’re seeing today is simply reasonable disagreement over proper limits either — there are alot of political operatives out there, IMO, cynically offense-mongering to shut others up so as to then personally profit by enacting their ideologies. Read the book Shakedown: Exposing the Real Jesse Jackson to understand what’s been going on for a long time.
October 18, 2009, 5:56 pmRob A says:
Arrowsmith: With reference to your “Jews continue to get the short end of the stick in America” comment, see page 47, Figure 3.1 “The Political Correctness Pyramid” in the soon to be released “Political Correctness for Dummies.”
You see, Jews have very little priority when it comes to sensitive comments, right between Italians and Catholics. Unless, of course, your a Jewish liberal, which puts you right between liberal Italians and liberal Catholics, which are all found above non-political and conservative ethnic groups on the pyramid. I hope you understand.
October 18, 2009, 6:00 pmBob from Ohio says:
???????????????
What America do you live in? In my America, we Jews are better off than nearly any other group. Higher levels of education than average, more professionals, greater wealth, high political influence (10 Jews in the Senate v. 1% of the population).
By most measures, Jews have reached their highest level of accomplishment since King Solomon in the United States.
October 18, 2009, 6:09 pmA. Zarkov says:
“Don’t worry — they’re not Red Sox fans,” at which point Tynan responded: “I don’t care about that — as long as they’re not Jewish.”
I’ve heard worse– in Temple no less. Go to the right places in Berkeley and San Francisco, and you will hear anti-Israel and even anti-Semitic remarks from liberal Jews. They are the absolute worst. A concentration camp survivor Sanne DeWitt (her husband is not Jewish, thus the name) brought an Israeli bus that was bombed by Arab terrorists to Berkeley as a memorial. Her greatest opposition came from the Jews in Berkeley and San Francisco– including her own Rabbi!
Of course I think Tynan just doesn’t like Jews period, regardless of whether they are liberal or not. But why should the liberals get a pass for their anti-Semitism just for being Jewish?
October 18, 2009, 6:12 pmTal says:
When was King Solomon ever in the United States? …Sorry couldn’t resist!
October 18, 2009, 6:15 pmMCM says:
Then why do you get upset at being called “racist”? You feel your racist beliefs are preferable to the anti-racist beliefs of others. Seems fair to be, but why get offended when you get called racist? It seems like an objective description of your prejudices.
Is it walking on pins and needles to avoid saying “I don’t want to live near Jews”? It’s like you think Mr. Tynan got cross-examined and tricked into this or something.
October 18, 2009, 6:24 pmLeo Marvin says:
I hope you’re kidding. Otherwise, give me a break.
What planet do you live on? I agree we’d be better off if everyone lightened up and gave everyone else more benefit of the doubt. But making it normative ignores human nature. You can’t pressure somebody into not being offended. Try telling a woman she shouldn’t be offended at being told she does look fat in those pants, or a man that size does matter and his comes up short.
October 18, 2009, 6:26 pmJakeCollins says:
Is there any comment so vilely racist that it would raise Mr. Post’s hackles? If so, then which groups are OK to express irrational hatred of and which aren’t? If not, then maybe Mr Post should move from VC to Stormfront.
October 18, 2009, 6:35 pmMike says:
Maybe there was something about his tone of voice or body language that indicated he was serious. But just from reading the description of that exchange, I think he was joking.
October 18, 2009, 6:52 pmLib says:
That doesn’t seem like a fair comparison.
The term “Jew”, being an ethnoreligious classification (as opposed to primarily religious, as in “Catholic” or primarily ethnic or racial as in “black”), is ambiguous. To the extent that Tynan was being serious, we can’t tell if he was referring to the Ethnic or Religious aspect, or both, of the other tenants.
The distinction between criticizing or judging someone because they are a member of a group beyond their control (such as race or ethnic background) vs. because they are a member of a group that they choose to self-identify with (such as religion or political party) is stark.
In addition, blacks in the United States are a “hyper protected” group in some sense. Socially, jokes that would be considered just in “poor taste” (if that) about a Scotsman or an Italian would often be considered shocking and completely unacceptable if made about blacks. I think there are number of reasons for this – mostly originating from the fact that America officially denied blacks of basic human rights for much of it’s history and few other groups were so excluded and certainly not for so long. Its more instructive to ask if one can substitute something like the word “Korean” in a case like this.
October 18, 2009, 6:59 pmMikL says:
Bravo!
Consider the parent who disinherits the son because he married a a) black, b) jew, c) Arab, d) another man, e) goat, f) 3 wives, g) Republican, etc…. the list is endless. Why is one objected to and the other not? It often depends on whose ox is being gored. Is a single man who only wants to date single woman discriminating? Yes. How about the same single man who only wants to date single, Catholic women with no children who have never been married before, and who are white with French ancestry? Where do you dray the line?
People prefer to associate with others based on many different attributes. For a million years, humans have congregated together based on things like religion, place of origin, the way they looked, etc., for two reasons: 1) to take stuff from people who are different or 2) mutual defense against the first group. That is human nature. To deny it is guaranteed failure.
It is not racism to say I like to associate with blue people rather than green people. Racism is claiming that blue people are superior to green people. Preference is not superiority. I like chicken more than pork, but allow that some people like pork more than chicken. To each his own.
Even so, it is perfectly legal to be a racist, and indeed, being a racist is constitutionally protected. Many forms of discrimination are perfectly legal, and any attempt to legislate them away will be met with abject failure. Every time I hear someone claim that people should be “equal” I want to hand them a copy of of Kurt Vonnegut’s story “Harrison Bergeron.” Equal? What a crock.
Equal in the eyes of the law — yes. Equal in the eyes of the government — yes. But every individual must be left to his own preferences and free to discriminate in his private life.
October 18, 2009, 7:03 pmA. Zarkov says:
There’s a big difference between Tynan and the folks over at stormfront. As far as I know, Tynan just doesn’t want to live near Jews– he doesn’t want them dead. For that kind of stuff go to stormfront or some Arab sites.
October 18, 2009, 7:04 pmjccamp says:
I think the newspaper description of the event is slightly different from that in the OP. A realtor was showing an apartment to a female physician, who happened to be Jewish, when they ran into Mr. Tynan who lives in the building. The realtor jokingly told Mr. Tynan “Don’t worry. They’re not Red Sox fans.”, who replied “I don’t care…as long as they’re not Jewish.” It may have been sardonic, but it doesn’t sound much like a joke. Tynan, who is a doctor himself, called the lady and apologized, which was accepted. The article didn’t indicate whether the lady is going to rent the apartment.
October 18, 2009, 7:06 pmA. Zarkov says:
How about the single man who only wants to date married women?
October 18, 2009, 7:07 pmCato The Elder says:
I suppose I could possibly become “upset.” What I wouldn’t do is go running about yelling for social censure. Why not? Because I realize the way the word “racism” is used nowadays has rendered it a meaningless term, a bludgeon for use, so one shouldn’t treat as cutting critique that needs rebuttal. If Soledad O’Brien – or whoever – grills a Republican legislator on whether or not he believes opposition to the public option is fueled by racist sentiment, the legislator shouldn’t stammer, he shouldn’t bloviate, he shouldn’t pull out voluminous histories trying to rebut the point, he should simply look at his questioner quizzically, say “No.”, and move on to his next topic. There are plenty of juvenile beliefs that people hold that it would be silly and counterproductive to take serious offense to. Many times, you would only encourage the perpetration of such beliefs by doing so. My feeling is very akin to the statement “don’t feel the trolls.”
This particular incident doesn’t specifically trouble me. I’m more hearkening to incidents like that which occurred when some Republican staffer sent a private email to his colleagues mocking up Obama to look like a medicine man, in order to signal his opposition to Obamacare. A terrific row was made out of a depiction that in no way hearkened to prejudiced depictions of black people. Or the mayoral staffer that was fired some years ago because he used the word “niggardly” in front of a black colleague. It’s all a bunch of nonsense that of course worsens race relations. Besides, offense-mongering also belies a sense of humor; I found many characterizations of Chimpy McBush plenty funny.
October 18, 2009, 7:10 pmMikL says:
He loses his job from the baker who discriminates against and refuses to employ adulterers!
October 18, 2009, 7:12 pmjccamp says:
BTW -
“Ronan Tynan – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ronan Tynan (born May 14, 1960) is a legless, anti-Semitic tenor, singing in the classical Irish style. He is most famous for his anti-Semitic comments and ..”
That didn’t take long. I presume this will be changed again soon.
October 18, 2009, 7:14 pmCato The Elder says:
You definitely shouldn’t feel or feed trolls.
October 18, 2009, 7:19 pmseattle law student says:
Seconded. I coach a collegiate sports team [bad decision to do while in law school but what the heck] , and one thing I have to focus on at least once a semester is language. I have black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Jewish, Catholic, Bhuddist, GeneroChristian, and homosexual players. They josh each other all the time using slurs in a friendly manner. Context matters, and I don’t want them to be in a position where their statements are misinterpreted. This guy may have been joking, but no one will know. Likewise I try to make my players never use the language so they can’t be misquoted, and so they will not offend any people who overhear.
October 18, 2009, 7:24 pmjccamp says:
And yet one more version, this from the NY Post:
“The alleged slur came while Dr. Gabrielle Gold-von Simson, an NYU Medical center pediatrician, was inspecting the building with a real estate agent and they bumped into the golden-throated team singer.
The agent joked to Tynan: “Don’t worry they are not Red Sox fans.”
And for some reason Tynan responded by saying: “I don’t care about that, as long as they are not Jewish.”
The burst of bigotry stunned Gold-von Simson, who said “Why is that?”
According to the team, Tynan said that a lot of “scary” Jewish ladies had been looking at the apartment before.
Outraged, Gold-von Simson, sent an angry e-mail to the Yankees yesterday, describing the incident to the team.
The team got in touch with Tynan as soon as they could, said spokeswoman Alice McGillion.
“He admitted that the contents of the e-mail were true,” McGillion said.
“He said it was a bad joke. So we told him that was absolutely intolerable behavior and he needed to apologize.
“He said he spoke to the woman an apologized.” ‘
In this story, Tynan does say he was trying to make a joke.
October 18, 2009, 7:24 pmArthurKirkland says:
What a relief it would be were educated, intelligent Americans no longer pressured by political correctness to conceal their legitimate disdain for graduates of sectarian schools, residents of southern states, fundamentalists, conservatives, Republicans and the like . . . particularly when the rubes apply for admission (to schools or clubs), faculty positions or employment.
I see no likelihood that conservatives will quit whining about the hardships and prejudice they claim to endure in learned circles, however, so it probably will continue to be necessary to humor them.
October 18, 2009, 7:28 pmPragmaticist says:
I wonder how much more Jews would achieve if it weren’t for government sanctioned racial preferences in education and employment.
October 18, 2009, 7:41 pmTweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » God Bless America: -- Topsy.com says:
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October 18, 2009, 7:49 pmChrisTS says:
He does?
By the way, the Yankees told him to apologize.
October 18, 2009, 8:10 pmliamascorcaigh says:
This is the most sensible post on such a subject I’ve ever read. Thank the Lord for your common sense, perspective and insight into the foibles of the human personality. Well done.
October 18, 2009, 8:12 pmArthurKirkland says:
If, as appears obvious, you are referring to my post about conservative whining . . . thank you.
October 18, 2009, 8:24 pmbgates says:
GeneroChristian?
What is that?
October 18, 2009, 8:40 pmbgates says:
How long until he appears on the Rush Limbaugh show?
If Rush wanted somebody best-known for anti-Semitic remarks, why not get Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson?
October 18, 2009, 8:42 pmMCM says:
I’m not sure that is what either of them are “best-known” for.
October 18, 2009, 8:54 pmConstantin says:
Probably around the time Rush starts adopting Barack’s Israel-loathing policies, and gets Rashid Khalidi for a buddy.
October 18, 2009, 8:56 pmOwen H. says:
I’m confused here. Is the problem that Tynan uttered an anti-Semitic remark, or that the Yankees organization violated his rights by not having him sing?
October 18, 2009, 8:56 pmpunditius says:
I dunno. Can they sing?
October 18, 2009, 9:02 pmSuperSkeptic says:
The Yankees must be in touch with Yale University Press. They told Tynan not to show up because they were concerned for his safety.
(joke – don’t call my boss)
October 18, 2009, 9:14 pmpunditius says:
The guy made what seems to have been a foolish wisecrack about not wanting to live around Jews. So he loses his gig singing for the Yankees. He has a right to make wisecracks about the Jews. He’s got no “right” to sing for the Yankees.
October 18, 2009, 9:16 pm11-B/20.B4 says:
And there you have it, ladies and gents. We wouldn’t want to ever be misquoted or have our words twisted to make it possible for those righteous enough in their multiculturalism to slander us for being (gasp) bigoted. Quick fun fact, bigotry is hardwired into the human brain, a shortcut to avoid having to think too long about some things. Now, we can all agree that irrational hatred is wrong, but once we’re into the field of controlling speech and thought, we may want to run a quick glass house check. All of us, every last one, has a dozen or more prejudices about people. It may not be about race, but you think generally that poor people are lazy, or fat people are disgusting, or women with anorexia are horribly unattractive and sad (I’ll cop to that one) or something completely different, but still an unfounded belief about a group.
I never really understood race until I joined the Army. Day 1 of basic, fifty scared kids in a platoon, being screamed at and made to do exercises, what is the first thing everyone did? Split up along racial lines perfectly. Black guys in one corner, hispanics in another, whites at the back of the bay. Then the whites split into rural, urban and skater groups (don’t ask), and the hispanics split into mexicans and everyone else. We had a couple small town boys who had literally never seen a non-white in real life before. Time and training broke those barriers down, and the racial insults flew thick and fast. Am I insulted by my teammate calling me a “cracker” or asking me if I want extra mayo on my sandwich? Not a bit. The only color that matters to us is green (as in the color of our uniforms), but guess what? Now we despise anyone who isn’t a soldier! We didn’t become less bigoted per se, just traded one for another.
So no, I don’t think that bigotry based on race is the healthiest thing, but you know what? Almost all of us have just a bit of it hiding somewhere, and if you’re honest with yourself, you know it’s true. The key is to not act out on it. Racism is the delegitimizer du jour, but you can’t black and white (get it?) this issue. At the end of the day, we’re all bigots, and hopefully we’re trying to minimize it. If you get all frothy on the issue, I must assume that reflection is not your strong suit.
October 18, 2009, 9:19 pmPersonFromPorlock says:
seattle law student:
And do you make them sign a pledge that when playing in a televised game they will not touch certain parts of their body?
October 18, 2009, 9:26 pmLaura(southernxyl) says:
11-b, most people learn eventually to keep their mouth shut about certain topics because the pain of being misunderstood, wilfully or not, is too great. Thus Eric Holder’s view of America as a nation of cowards, and he’s right, but it’s stupid to complain about a situation where people have had their heads bit off over innocent comments and now won’t open their mouths. Jokes are subject to misinterpretation, even among people who know the jokester. Especially if they’re not particularly funny. Arthur can’t see me giving him the stink-eye about educated, intelligent Americans’ legitimate disdain for me and it’s probably a good thing.
October 18, 2009, 9:49 pmjccamp says:
So I guess Dirty Harry won’t be throwing out the first pitch if the series ever gets to San Franciso…
“De Georgio: Ah that’s one thing about our Harry, doesn’t play any favorites! Harry hates everybody: Limeys, Micks, Hebes, Fat Dagos, Niggers, Honkies, Chinks, you name it.
Gonzales: How does he feel about Mexicans?
De Georgio: Ask him.
Harry Callahan: Especially Spics.”
from the movie, 1971.
October 18, 2009, 9:49 pmseattle law student says:
Man – it’s rugby, there is no part that doesn’t get touched or worse.
GeneroChristian – I just meant the various sects of Christianity such as Methodists, Baptists, Unitarians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Mormons and so on.
October 18, 2009, 10:33 pmjccamp says:
Seattle LS –
For what it’s worth – not much, probably – I thought what you said (and do) made sense.
October 18, 2009, 10:39 pmtraveler496 says:
Super thread. There are at least 4-5 contributions so far that IMO are worth mulling over. Keep it up folks.
October 18, 2009, 10:39 pmpunditius says:
But…what if the pain…is…tremendous…?
October 18, 2009, 10:58 pmricky says:
jccamp wrote:
“Ronan Tynan – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ronan Tynan (born May 14, 1960) is a legless, anti-Semitic tenor, singing in the classical Irish style. He is most famous for his anti-Semitic comments and ..”
I checked for myself. It’s true. Some nutjob actually put that on his page. Here’s the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ronan_Tynan&oldid=320607368
October 19, 2009, 1:50 amstash says:
Hey look, the guy wasn’t arrested and sent to the gulag. He is a public representative of a business. At best this was poor judgment and inappropriate. People get fired for less every day. Among one’s Jewish friends, a remark like that might be the height of hilarity, because there is a clear context that it is a joke. You do not joke like that with strangers or people you have just met. I rib a friend about losing his hair, but I don’t call random folks I meet in the hall “baldy” and expect the same broad smile and good-natured counter-insult. Civility to the public is a reasonable employment requirement when you are publicly associated with a business.
If he had mooned her instead, nobody would be surprised by the woman’s complaint or the Yankee’s reaction. That also would have been an inappropriate joke, notwithstanding the laughter it may regularly provoke among his friends.
October 19, 2009, 2:40 amphilip snyder says:
There is ABSOLUTLY no excuse for that comment How would Mr. Tynan feel if, he coming from Ireland, heard the comment “I don’t care about that…as long as they are not Catholics”? What’s Tynan’s opinion on signs in store windows when the Irish emigrated to the U.S. “Irish need not apply”? Tynan is living in a cosmopolitan city in which all of the residents or their ancestors were immigrants of one religion or ethnic background. What’s the saying: “The best meant things are said in jest”?
October 19, 2009, 6:22 amDavid Chesler says:
I suspect that if the roles were reversed, and the man born Moishe Mirsky were still with us but singing for the Red Sox instead of the Yankees, and living in South Boston, Tynan would realize the ridiculousness of the remark and that it was a joke. The proper response is “You’d better be smiling, pardner.”
October 19, 2009, 7:50 am(That is, if Tynan cared about living with Jews, he wouldn’t be living there in the first place.)
Bob from Ohio says:
Tynan is a fool but that is an urban legend.
October 19, 2009, 10:07 amCato The Elder says:
The Myth of ‘No Irish Need Apply’ — who would have thought?
October 19, 2009, 10:09 amSL says:
How did we come a fair way? Perhaps by recognizing that such statements are, at the least, impolite and deserve social censure.
October 19, 2009, 10:17 amB-Rob says:
It’s funny, my mother in law is British and she hates Irish people. She thinks they are all “filthy . . . like rats.” Unlike Tynan, however, she has enough respect for the diversity in this country to keep her mouth shut in mixed company.
And another thing that some non-minorities don’t seem to get: if a Hispanic person hears a White person make a remark about Blacks or Asians, chances are they also wonder “What does Bob say about me when I leave the room?” You want to know why Obama got 70% of the Asian and Hispanic vote, outperforming Kerry and Gore? Check some of the racist commentary and conduct on Youtube from the McCain/Palin rallies, then remember what I just said.
October 19, 2009, 11:24 amAnonymous Coward says:
@David: ROFL ROFL ROFL!
@B_Rob: “Unlike Tynan, however, she has enough respect for the diversity in this country to keep her mouth shut in mixed company.”
October 19, 2009, 11:28 amThats too bad, personally I think its far better when people are open about their prejudices than try to hide them and surprise you with them at unexpected moments. If they are open about it, at least you know what to expect and can behave accordingly.
B-Rob says:
*Yawn*. It’s funny: when Obama was running for the state senate in Illinois, his Black opponents spread the word that he was “controlled by the Jews.” That didn’t work, obviously, since he was still elected by a big margin. Next, he ran for president and cons tried to use his friendship with Rhasid Khalidi as “evidence” that he was anti-semetic. (No explanation on how he is both controlled by Jews and anti-semetic, but I digress). That anti-semitism trope, too, did not work since he got elected with more votes than ANY PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE EVER (69 million votes), 10 million more than his outwitted opponent, and 77% of the Jewish vote. He wins the Nobel Peace Prize and who is one of the main people saying he deserved it? Previous Peace Prize winner Shimon Peres.
So what does all this mean? It means that your opinion that Obama is anti-semetic may be interesting but, ultimately, it is as disconnected from any objective reality as the murmurings of the guy on the street corner with tin foil in his hat, trying to deflect the thought control beams the CIA is shooting at him.
October 19, 2009, 11:39 amegd says:
Clearly he got into trouble when he tried to explain the joke.
Rule of thumb: after making a tasteless joke and someone gets offended, just say “I was joking.” They’re still going to be offended, but at least you’ve stopped the (metaphorical) bleeding.
…realized after trying to explain why the punchline “your stance is too wide” is funny to a woman.
October 19, 2009, 11:44 amB-Rob says:
There is something called manners, discretion, and civility that has been lost. Just check out the teabagger town hall behavior and you will see what I mean. There is nothing wrong with using some discretion on how and when you speak to people. Tynan obviously had poor home training by his mother.
And I see where you are coming from, but disagree wholeheartedly. The quickness in which conservatives rally around every racially insensitive remark, in the name of opposing “political correctness” is kind of fascinating. It makes me wonder: do they teach their children that it is OK to publically disparage people because of their religion or their race? If the answer is “yes”, then I don’t want to hear cons say ANYTHING about Hollywood destroying the morals of today’s youth. Because the ill tempered youth are as much a product of that kind of permissiveness as anything liberals teach.
October 19, 2009, 11:46 amegd says:
I hate to turn this into another thread about the Tea Party movement, but are you aware that there were protests between 2000 & 2008? For a brief overview, I suggest zombietime. Or just Zombie’s Hall of Shame.
Republicans didn’t invent crude political behavior in 2009.
October 19, 2009, 12:00 pmLaura(southernxyl) says:
You were trying for irony here, right?
October 19, 2009, 12:06 pmCJColucci says:
Everyone has the right to be an asshole.
October 19, 2009, 12:20 pmAnd everyone else has the right to visit the predictable consequences of assholery on assholes.
Mike Schilling says:
It would have been much funnier if he’d said “As long as they’re not New Yorkers”.
And everyone else has the right to visit the predictable consequences of assholery on assholes.
Very true. As Rush Limbaugh found out recently to what, in real (as opposed to bombastic self-promotion) terms, is his slight inconvenience.
October 19, 2009, 6:42 pmCrunchy Frog says:
The saddest part of the whole charade is that the Yankess felt the need to can him now – when my Angels come to town. The Yanks have been losing playoff series with him singing ever since the WS in 2001. Couldn’t they have waited another week?
October 19, 2009, 7:38 pmjcm says:
Jonathan Rauch in his book Kindly Inquisitors
October 19, 2009, 9:47 pmThe New Attacks on Free Thought stated the same thesis of the pot. And both are right. A joke is joke and is no funny without someone been offended. Unless is about a english white protestant man
Mark says:
Jews continue to get the short end of the stick in America.
Yes, I notice all of the Jewish slums everywhere, the lack of Jews in high paying jobs, and the constant anti-Jewish violence.
October 20, 2009, 4:11 pmvonneumann says:
It is ironic to note that Jan Pierce and Robert Merrill sang that at Yankee Stadium more often than just about anyone else. Both were Jewish.
They probably did it fo the free tickets.
BTW, in the Legends portion of the new Stadium there is a terrific kosher restaurant.
October 21, 2009, 7:03 pm