Yitzhak translates: O poor us, always innocent victims, never perpetrators, “forced” into perpetrating usury, criminality, revolution, and genocide!

Stalin’s Jews
Ynet News 12.21.06 by Sever Plocker
http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

The Complete Guide to Killing Non-Jews
Ma’ariv 09.11.09 (p. 2) by Roi Sharon
Here is a full translation of an article in the Maariv newspaper of Israel
http://didiremez.wordpress.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

Jewish Financial Aggression, Worldwide Economic Nakba
Ethnic Askenazim Against Zionist Israel 4.27.09
http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/04/jewish-financial-aggression-worldwide.html

At Menachot 22b the Torah [SheBeal Peh] finds God placing Moses in the 18th row of Talmud “sage” Rabbi Akiva’s class, in the “back of the class” for his poor understanding of Torah. Though Deuteronomy 4:2 and Josue 1:7-8 of the Hebrew Bible command unchanging obedience to the Mosaic Law until the New Covenant promised in Jeremias 31:31, the rabbis claim that they are Torah and may “alter the very content of Mosaic revelation” with impunity. The renowned and most prolific Torah commentator of today, admired and frequently cited by even Benedict XVI, has this to say:

“The rabbi constituted the projection of the divine on earth. Honor was due him more than to the scroll of the Torah, for through his learning and logic he might alter the very content of Mosaic revelation. He was Torah, not merely because he lived by it, but because at his best he constituted as compelling an embodiment of the heavenly model as did a Torah scroll itself.” Rabbi Jacob Neusner, “The Phenomenon of the Rabbi in Late Antiquity: II The Ritual of ‘Being a Rabbi’ in Later Sasanian Babylonia,” Numen, Vol.17, Fasc. 1., Feb., 1970, pp.3-4

At Tikkunei Zohar 1:27b the Torah refers to the Mischnah of the Talmud as “the burial place of Moses.” Shabbat 15c teaches that the Mischnah supersedes so nullifies, indeed “buries,” the Pentateuch of Moses.

See also:

“My son, be more careful in the observance of the words of the Scribes than in the words of the Torah [She Bich Tav].” Erubin 21b

But be not surprised, the Torah and the rabbis treat God Himself poorly:

“God smiled and said: ‘My sons have defeated Me, My sons have defeated Me!’ God’s sons ‘defeated him’ with their arguments. Rabbi Yehoshua was correct in his contention that a view confirmed by majority vote must be accepted, even where God Himself holds the opposite view.” Bava Metzia 59b

A renowned 17th century rabbi of Prague, the “Koliner rebbe,” stated, “Our Zaddikim’s (famous Orthodox rabbis) words are more important than the Torah of Moses. As our Sages teach: A Zaddik decrees, and God obeys.”

Strict: But there is nothing “21st century American hero” or “America’s real founding father” about Moses. An argument could be made that he was Israel’s founding father.

Agreed. I’m not sure that Israeli’s look at him as a founding father of the modern State of Israel, though. (DB? ) Religious Jews simply refer to him as Moshe Rabbeinu — Moses our Rabbi, which denotes both teacher and master. But a leader of a democratic form of government? Nope, and never claimed to be.

Some people I guess find comfort in equating Israel’s founding father with America’s founding father.

There are some interesting aspects to that theory, the doctrine of Christian supercessionism, and the conceit (in the literary sense, not the the egotistic sense) of the Church as the New Israel, as well as the more recent conceit among some Christian sects that experiment with celebrating Jewish holidays but infusing them with very unJewish Christian significance and symbolism. But all that is not only off-thread, but is better discussed over coffee than on-line.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate Moses.

But there is nothing “21st century American hero” or “America’s real founding father” about Moses. An argument could be made that he was Israel’s founding father.

Some people I guess find comfort in equating Israel’s founding father with America’s founding father.

Strict: Fifth, none of this makes any sense. The United States was founded by a large group of individuals who agreed on a set of ideals. It was a consensus. Moses, however, ruled from above, dictating down to the people.

Typical atheist perspective. But you do make the valid point that none of the founders of the US received constant, unequivocal and direct instruction from G-d. And if they had claimed to, people would have justifiably discounted them and treated them as dangerous demagogues, and rightly so. Moses, who WAS in that position, was repeatedly accused of the same thing.

lol

First, that movie is 50 years old – hardly 21st century material.

Second, those two scenes aren’t even similar. They are holding their objects in totally different ways.

Third, you can’t say it’s “another example” if you haven’t given any others.

Fourth, you cant say it plays an “important role in American life,” but then not say what that role is, or how it is important.

Fifth, none of this makes any sense. The United States was founded by a large group of individuals who agreed on a set of ideals. It was a consensus. Moses, however, ruled from above, dictating down to the people.

Sixth, Moses mass murdered in a fire hundreds of Jews who dissented from his autocracy. That’s who you see as a the essential American hero? Moses, the guy who mistreated prisoners of war? Moses: “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourself.” Numbers 31:17-18 KJV. Murdering and raping little children – how American and heroic!

For some reason I’m thinking Purim, but I can’t seem to find the source.

I think you are right.

Randy: And pretty much everyone gets along each other. They value politeness.

That must be why Jews have been stabbed to deeath in Toronot simply for being Jews, and have been assaulted while minding their own business on campuses throughout Canada by anti-Zionist “human rights activists”, and why pro-Israel speakers have been shouted down or have had to cancel their speeches because of the threat of violent disruption.

Well, perhaps, if you don’t count slaves or Native Americans as ‘people.’

Personally, if you were objective, you would have to find Canada far more ethical that the US. They never enslaved any people, but actually provided refuge for them. They never had a policy of genocide against their Native Americans. Crime is far less in Canada than the US, everyone has health insurance (for which they would never trade places with the US), and they don’t have the corrupting influence of mega-wealth such as we see on Wall Street today. And pretty much everyone gets along each other. They value politeness.

My shriek of laughter for the day. Thanks.

So Charlton Heston raises his rifle over his head, and from that you conclude that ” it’s another example of how, even in the 21st century, the story of Moses and the Exodus continues to play an important role in American public life.”? That’s a pretty thin reed of evidence. Got anything else? Because I’m thinking Moses and Exodus pretty much play NO role in American public life.

Moses was not a Christian. In fact, he lived in a time where there was NO such thing as Christianity. I haven’t read the book in question, but just a quick glance at the blog posting reveals no mentions or inferences of Christianity. Therefore, I fail to see how one could reach the conclusion that this is “more typical programmed Christian ranting!”.

That same night, MLK also invoked Nairobi. Nairobi, Kenya, where Obama descends from. This is irrefutable evidence that Obama is the essential American hero.

Where do the African-Americans and American Indians fall into this America-Exodus mythology? Remember that Exodus was about slaves escaping the slavemasters – a European who comes to America and kills a native and buys a slave doesn’t quite fit that mold.

It’s also worth noting that in Rastafarianism, America and the Americas, to where millions of black Africans were taken and held in captivity, are seen as Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar or Pharaonic Egypt. Here is a wonderful song by Pressure, released just this week, entitled “Modern Pharaoh.”

byomtov: At a later time, however (can’t recall exactly, but it comes up at the Seder), there is a voluntary re-affirmation.

For some reason I’m thinking Purim, but I can’t seem to find the source.

Yes, the covenant was involuntary, de facto if not de jure. At a later time, however (can’t recall exactly, but it comes up at the Seder), there is a voluntary re-affirmation.

There are probably other commenters who can provide more specific insight here.

I always say that America is the new Israel.

I believe they have a religion for that somewhere out West …

In the case of Moses, GOD sent the plagues which caused Pharaoh to let the people go – not Moses. Moses did not lead a revolutionary army. He spoke God’s words to Pharaoh and watched God work along with everyone else. Ultimately, he didn’t even disobey, but rather obeyed Pharaoh’s command to take the Israelites and leave (Exodus 12:31-32).

Dr. Frazer’s thesis quoting Kraynak’s book:

First, as Kraynak pointed out, “the biblical covenant is undemocratic: God is not bound by the covenant and keeps His promises solely out of His own divine self-limitation.” Second, “(t)he element of voluntary consent is missing from the covenant with Israel….There is nothing voluntary or consensual about the biblical covenant; and the most severe punishments are threatened by God for disobedience.” Third, “insofar as the covenant with Israel sanctions specific forms of government, the main ones are illiberal and undemocratic;” including patriarchy, theocracy, and kingships established by divine right. Fourth, “the Bible shows that God delivers the people from slavery in Egypt and supports national liberation, not for the purpose of enjoying their political and economic rights, but for the purpose of putting on the yoke of the law in the polity of Moses.” Fifth, “the content of the divine law revealed to Moses consists, in the first place, of the Ten Commandments rather than the Ten Bill of Rights, commanding duties to God, family, and neighbors rather than establishing protections for personal freedom.” Finally, the combination of judicial, civil, ceremonial, and dietary laws imposed on the people “regulate all aspects of religious, personal, and social life.” The history of Israel, therefore, had to be radically rewritten to provide support for the demands of political liberty and for republican self-government.

– Kraynak, 46-49 quoted in Frazer, “The Political Theology of the American Founding,” Ph.D. dissertation, 18-19.

Neil,

I sorta sympathize with the point you are trying to make. As someone who has read virtually all of the primary sources on this particular dynamic of American history, I advise you to please check your quotes because you put them in quotes. What you actually wrote are paraphrases of actual quotations. I’m warning because the secular side has come down really hard on figures like David Barton for doing this; it’s understandable if the “Christian Nationalists” come down really hard on the other side (or those in the middle) for doing the same.

To the biblical literalist that tale is not, or is not supposed to be about political liberty or rebellion, but spiritual liberty and submission to authority. Though if one adopts a more loose, liberal or cafeteria biblical hermeneutic (as Jefferson, Franklin and America’s patriotic preachers did) you could get political liberty and rebellion out of the story (i.e., only by revising or rewriting it).

Nowhere in Exodus did Moses rebel or even disobey an order by Pharoah.

(and ironically the new Rome as well).

The ethical center of the world.

MOST people living in the colonies when the U.S. was founded were NOT Christians! Most were, as were nearly ALL of our Founding Fathers, DEISTS.

Jefferson not only wanted the Total Separation of Church and State, he said:

“The Christian god is cruel, vindictive capricious and unjust.”

And in 1797, a treaty which was started when President Washington was in office, then unanimously passed by Congress and signed by President John Adams stated:

“The United States of America is in NO SENSE a Christian Nation” and “It is no more a Christian nation than it is a Jewish or Mohammedan one.”

Last, not one of our first six presidents where “practicing
Christians”