Mikey: Mr. Nieport,
What is your definition and what is the basis for it. Minor v. Happersett (1874)“

The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners”

This also means that a Natural Born Citizen is not a 14 Amendment “Born” citizen, since this case was in 1874 and the 14A was in 1866.

It doesn’t mean anything of the kind. This is why you can’t trust tax protesters/birthers; they’re either dishonest or they rely on dishonest people. The very next sentence of that case, not quoted by Mikey, is:

Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens.

In other words, this case provides no support whatsoever for Mikey’s claim.

Mikey, here’s a hint that will help you in many contexts in life, not just law: the statements “If A, then X,” and “If not A, then not X” are not logically equivalent.

Minor v. Happersett (1874)
“The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners”

This also means that a Natural Born Citizen is not a 14 Amendment “Born” citizen, since this case was in 1874 and the 14A was in 1866.

Mikey: Natural Born Citizen= Born in the US to 2 citizen parents. Obama does not qualify

It doesn’t mean that; it never meant that. But thanks for playing.

Mick: Are you people really that clueless about the Constitution? I find that most lawyers are.

Somehow, I think it’s mutual.

The born-in-Virginia subjects of Virginia Colony became automatically citizens of Virginia State, just as the born-in-Ireland subjects of Britain living in Ireland became citizens of Ireland when it became independent, and the born-in-India subjects of Britain automatically became citizens of Indian when it became independent.

In 1776 or 1777 a committee of the Continental Congress, with Thomas Jefferson as a member, wrote to the US Ambassadors abroad, including John Adams and Benjamin Franklin that the congress had: “Resolved, that it is inconsistent with the interests of the United States to appoint anyone, not a natural born citizen thereof, to the office of minister, charge d-affairs…..”http://books.google.com/books?id=l1gpkmF4YPgC&pg=PA105&dq=%22good+character+who+comes+to+settle+in+this+state,+having+first+taken+an+oath+or+affirmation+of+allegiance+to+the+same,+may+purchase,+or+by+other+just+means+acquire,+hold,+and+transfer+land+or+other+real+estate%22#v=onepage&q=%22natural%20born%22&f=false

So you see that they were already using the term Natural Born Citizen during the Revolution, well before the Constitution, and the quotation refers to people like themselves. Adams and Jay where among those who received the letter were Natural Born, and Jefferson, who was among those who wrote it, was also Natural Born.

All of their parents were presumably British, but they were Natural Born. Natural Born meant “born in the place.’

The statute of Pennsylvania regarding elections of 1799 clearly shows that Natural Born simply means citizen at birth because there are no alternatives, a person is either Natural Born, naturalized or a foreigner who is not eligible to vote. There is no category of native-born but not Natural Born. it reads: “That the elector is required to take an oath, 1, that he is a natural born citizen of the state &c; or 2 That he is a natural born citizen of some other of the United States; or 3, that having being a foreigner or alien, he has been naturalized.” (http://books.google.com/books?id=ERgvAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA251&dq=%22a+natural+born+citizen%22&lr=#v=onepage&q=%22a%20natural%20born%20citizen%22&f=false)

So, in 1799, there was legislation referring backwards to people who were ALREADY Natural Born Citizens of Pennsylvania or other US States. And, there were only two categories, those who were Natural Born Citizens or those who were Naturalized. Natural Born meant “born in the USA.”

Hamilton was not Natural Born, which was the reason for the grandfather clause (and I think there was one or two others who had been born outside of a Colony who thought that they should be eligible. Wilson was one, I believe.) But Washington was certainly a Natural Born Virginia citizen and a Natural Born US citizen.

I do wish people would stop being wrong and start following what I say. Well, me and the Einstein was Wrong I have Proof e-mailer guy.

Also: INADMISSIBLE!

Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, etc. were all Natural Born because they were born in the colonies that became states.

Natural Born at the time meant “born in the country.” It was the term used in those days instead of Native Born, which was virtually never used. The word Naturalize comes from Natural Born, meaning to make someone who is not a citizen just like someone who was born in the country.

Here is an example of how the phrase Natural Born was used at the time.

“The position is founded on that clause of the British act of navigation, which forbids any but a natural-born or naturalized subject to exercise the occupation of a merchant or factor, in any of the British dominions in Asia, Africa, and America.” Hamilton, (Alexander Hamilton, The Works of Alexander Hamilton, (Federal Edition), vol. 5 [1793]) (http://oll.libertyfund.org/index.php?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php&title=1382&search=%22natural+born%22&layout=html#toc_list)

As you can see, since there were only Natural Born and Naturalized subjects mentioned, Natural Born has to mean born in the country, while Naturalized means born outside of the country but made a subject by law.

Here is another example: “Prior to the adoption of the constitution, the people inhabiting the different states might have been divided into two classes; natural born citizens, or those born within the state and aliens or such as were born out of it.” (A LETTER FROM FROM GEORGE NICHOLAS, OF KENTUCKY, TO HIS FRIEND, IN VIRGINIA. Justifying the conduct of the Citizens of Kentucky, as to some of the late Measures of the General Government; AND CORRECTING CERTAIN FALSE STATEMENTS, Which have been made in the different States, of the Views and Actions of the People of Kentucky. Published in 1789. (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/faw:@field%28DOCID+icufawcbc0009%29)

As you can see, before there were naturalization laws in the colonies and the states, the residents could only be those who were Natural Born citizens and aliens.

This shows that Natural Born’s original meaning was “born in the country” and that George Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Etc were all Natural Born Citizens. (Hamilton wasn’t. He was only eligible due to the grandfather clause.)

AJK:
For what it’s worth, Hamilton was constitutionally eligible for the presidency.

Y’know, I’ve always wondered at that. Wasn’t he covered by virtue of being a state citizen at the time of ratification, foreign birth aside?

Hamilton was merely the first in a long, long line of immigrants who understood and furthered the ideals of the United States and contributed to our nation’s growth and success.

For what it’s worth, Hamilton was constitutionally eligible for the presidency.

Will you be discussing the original meaning and reason for the Natural Born Citizen requirement of POTUS eligibility?

You mean that the other framers disliked Hamilton?

Personally, I think that the natural born citizen requirement should be repealed. Hamilton was merely the first in a long, long line of immigrants who understood and furthered the ideals of the United States and contributed to our nation’s growth and success.

Cheers,