This is a really good post and something I never thought about, but I do recall a few eatery charges on my credit card that seemed to be much higher than I recalled spending. Well I think I will make an effort to bring enuf cash for tipping from now on if possible!

jcm: Im apologize for been out of the subject but this is also first amendment issue 

Whose speech? Hamid’s for yelling, ok – mebe I’ll buy that. But then, “they said Hamid was provoked when the customer with the necklace reportedly called him a derogatory name.” Soooo… doesn’t free speech also extend to the customer that Hamid assaulted?

IF Hamid’s free speech is the issue, his speech ended when “Hamid put his hand on the customer’s shoulder”.

A wise man once explained to me that, “Your rights end where mine begin.” And therin lies the wisdom to resolve most, if not all, conflicts, IMHO.

The customer has the right to name-call whomever he wishes. Hamid has the right to be offended…. and walk away.

Got any VALID reasons WHY it is not YOU who should be deported for your advocating the deportment of others and for your support of the UN-American, Anti-Freedom concept of censorship?

Here is some more factual TRUTH on the Christian religion.

THE CRUSADES where the first people the killed were other Christians who happened to be living south of where most Christians were. Don’t check first, nope, just kill every man, women and child.

THE INQUISITION were MOST of those tortured & murdered were Women and Children.

WITCH TRIALS were MOST killed were women.

——–

And as I said before, Christians are still conducting Witch Trials as proven by the 2006 case in Oklahoma were an Atheist family was on trial. A trial where the cops and other Christians, LIED & LIED some more!

FYI Many Atheist website’s have HATE mail from Christians. And their hate mail makes anything I have said Pale by comparison. Of course, nearly all of these Christians are Cowards as they do not include their names.

———-

Then there was war after war where some Christians (Both Catholics and Non-Catholics) were torturing & killing each other. Fairly recently in Ireland, some Christians conducted TERRORIST attacks on other Christians

Why did the Christian Serbs (Greek Orthodox) love KILLING the Catholics in Croatia and Bosnia? It was because during WWII, the Catholic put in charge of the Nazi controlled areas by another Catholic (Hitler) decreed all of the Greek Orthodox HAD TO convert to Catholicism OR DIE!

Hundreds of thousands REFUSED to convert & they were Killed. So the Serbs were just doing some Pay Back!

Of course, the Serbs were also dong some pay back on Moslems as some Moslems fought FOR the Nazi’s during WWII.

(And there are now Nazi Moslems who are still causing freedom loving people problems.)

Do I support ALL, or even most, Moslems?
NO, they are much, much scarier than are MOST present day Christians!

It IS, as their published plans prove, their full intent to TAKE OVER THE ENTIRE PLANET & establish a World Wide Caliphate. IF they accomplish this, we will be living under a Taliban form of rule and be governed by Sharia Law!

And FYI, they are in year twenty of their one hundred year plan and, THEY ARE ON SCHEDULE!

This one of the reasons many informed Atheists voted FOR McCain and Palin!

As many UN-informed Christians seem to think their religion is one of peace. I’ve included the following about what is IN the BIBLE for their edification.

———–

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

Deuteronomy 13:7-12

————-

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Methinks you are in error.

A. Zarkov: SAID: “They virtually shut off immigration from 1925 to 1965 and we seemed to have survived that ok. The economy was alive and well in

bullsballs: WOW! So many comments from such a lack of facts! And a lot of bigotry, too!
Hamid touched the customer, that alone is battery.
He broke a necklace. Robbery? Felony theft? It is repairable, or replaceable.
That sounds like adding charges and seeing what may stick.
Hamid claimed the customer said something derogatory, hard to back up without very good witnesses not related to ether participant.
I doubt the customer said “Merry Christmas”, more like terrorist, or camel jockey or any other racial slur common today. But again, hard to prove without good witnesses stepping forward and reporting the facts, but it is just a terrorist, camel jockey, sand ***** being charged, right?
Lt.Mike Elerick said it was NOT provoked and NOT threatening??? There seems to be something HE may know that isn’t in the article? Or didn’t he understand the report from Hamid’s side of the story?
As to the raised hand with a pen, did Hamid need to write up a tab, or any other paperwork as part of his job? Did he just happen to raise his hand with the pen, in indignation and emphasis? Were his words in defense of his religion?
I hope Hamid gets a good defense attorney!
As to a pen being a deadly weapon, yes, it can be. As can anything causing a death from use as a weapon. Your own fingers, hands, fists, elbows, knees, feet, head, whatever, can injure and kill another person, so yes, they are weapons too.
Allāhu Akbar, الله أكبر, and God be with you all.
I was born in this country, I have lived here 52 years so far. I have been called many nasty things. I have even been called a Mexican by a Phoenix, AZ cop. I am 1/4 Dutch, 1/4 German, some English, French and Native American too, Caucasian is the term most would use to say my race, but it gets confusing to some I guess. But I have learned not to let ignorant people goad me into reacting to their ignorance, something a recent immigrant like Hamid might not have learned to do yet! But, seeing Hamid may be a Muslim, Islamic, person, and HE is directly responsible for the World Trade Center, it is OK to razz him about it… Makes me proud to be a Christian at times! Brings a tear to the eye, too! **sniff**

It’s absurd to think a Muslim would ever do anything not involving rainbows and bunny rabbits.

Would you like a baby wipe for all that sand in your vagina?

1. IF you will read the entire thread, you will see it was AFTER I reported the TRUTH about many Christians was when the negative comments about me started. Like this McCourt, who must be a “Programmed Religious Robot Christian” wants to ‘Deport Me’.

Deport me for telling the truth?

After I have served my country for over
six years in the National Guard and/or the Active Army reserves as well as serving for over three years in the Regular Army mostly as a paratrooper in the 101st Airborne. to have some clown who I’ll bet never served a day in our military and who probably does everything he can to not even serve on juries, thinks he as the right to deport me, highly pisses me off.

2. Act like an adult? By whose rules?

Did some all powerful force I do not know about lay out some rules on how to adults act?

I do the things REAL adults do.

I am very truthful and very honest, I have, MANY times in the past, put my both physical well being and my life on the line for others. (In fact, I just, at age 74, did it again a few weeks ago.)

I have, either all by myself, or helping others, broken up many fights. I have stopped crimes in progress.

While living and/or being stationed in south during the late 1950′s & early 1960′s, I could have been badly injured and/or killed for my actions in support of Black Civil Rights.

I have worked on political campaigns and to get Pattie Hurst released from jail where she should have never been in the first damn place. I was a member of NOW and was mostly responsible for getting women promoted into management positions.

I have gladly served on juries and even volunteered to serve on others. I gave blood until cancer caused me to have to stop. I give what I can to charites and to individuals, I’ve led charity drives in a large company. I have always helped others and still go out of my way to do so. I’ve saved more than a few lives.

And some ding-a-ling who most probably does not even come close to matching me in my service to others wants to deport me?

The odds are very high, NOT ONE of my detractors have even come close to doing as much as I have to make the world a better place.

Hey McDUMB. HERE IS SOME MORE TRUTH FOR YOU!

Those who have more than a superficial knowledge of U.S. history know, the United States of America was:

A. NOT founded BY Christians,

B. Not only were the Majority of our Founding Fathers NOT Christians, neither were MOST of those living in the colonies

C. The U.S. was NOT founded on some “Christian Principals”

And the DECENT principals the Christians clam as theri own had been around and in use for thousands of years before the Christian religion was started. (By some camel jockeys running around the deserts of the Middle East over 2,000 years ago.)

Who says the above about the founding of the U.S. is true? Why it is a Christian Minister, Historian and Researcher!

http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm

In 1796, while George Washington was President. the United States Congress began the process of writing a treaty with Tripoli. Then in 1797, this treaty was unanimously ratified by Congress and signed into law by President John Adams. Among other things, this treaty stated:

“The United States of America is in no sense founded on the Christian religion.”

AND,

“The United States of America is no more a Christian state than it is a Jewish or Mohammedan state.”

I have not said a single thing about Christian, or any other religion which is NOT 100% true. (And I DEFY anyone to prove it was) Only most people do not like hearing the truth no matter the subject.

IF ALL Christians are supposedly so nice, why do they say things like these leaders of the Christian religion have”?

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/quotes.htm

http://www.weirdcrap.com/recreational/chrsquot.htm

IF ALL Christians are supposedly so informed, intelligent and logical, why are some so stupid as to say: (among many other things) Homosexuals are not born, Evolution is not a fact and the use of stem cells is wrong?

IF ALL Christians are supposedly so great, then why are MOST American Atheists SO AFRAID of what Christians will do to them, they will NOT make it public knowledge they are Atheists???

In fact, some Atheists are SO AFRAID how badly their OWN FAMILIES and FRIENDS will treat them IF they tell them the truth about what they really believe, they do not do so.

And FYI. Christians are:

A, As late as 2006, sill conducting WITCH TRIALS!

B. Beating and/or Killing Atheists ONLY because they are Atheists!

C. LEAVING the Christian religion in droves!

Poor Mouse Balls is so clueless he not know what a troll is, he must be too lazy to even look it up.

————-

Only the very ignorant & illogical say ALL crimes are Hate Crimes!

(Then, MOUSE BALLS has already most certainly proved his lack of knowledge and his ability to use logic.)

Saying ALL, or even most crimes are “Hate Crimes” IS TOTALLY STUPID!

A. Do bank robbers HATE the Bank and/or the bank employees?

B. Do those who commit massive fraud
HATE ALL those they are defrauding?

C. Do most who steal cars HATE the cars owners?

E. Do those who stick up mom and pop stores, or even 7-11′s hate the owners?

I could go on and on with such examples only it would be a waste of time with those who care less about Logic & Facts!

I was mugged by four black guys who only took my money. Had they HATED me, they would have really hurt me.

Those who say all, or most crimes are hate crimes only prove how out of touch they are.

Hey Mouse Balls, try something new for you, it is called THINKING!

That being said, wouldn’t most crimes be hate crimes?
A poor person hates a rich person for having more than the poor person can achieve.
The black person perceives inequality, as he is constantly told he is being discriminated against, and so he strikes out against whites.
An immigrant feels peoples disdain of his nationality, and tries to express his feelings, but gets arrested as people misinterpret his actions…

Hate fosters fear, and fear drives people to react unexpectedly. Then law enforcement and the judicial have to deal with the results, and the hysteria from uninvolved people reacting in fear to the situation.
What makes it worse, our society has fostered those fears through media, and the educational sector spreads it to the youth, and they react, sometimes violently to it all.
So, instead of stopping the hate and violence, it is perpetuated.
All of which leads to expanded police powers and incarceration of the perpetrators. And that adds up to higher taxes to support the governmental agencies that are created to deal with the fears.

Better to educate than try to eradicate, but there is more visibility in the prosecution than educating of the population…

Neil C. Reinhardt: I really get tired of being attacked for telling the truth and/or presenting facts.

Telling the truth is not the issue. Writing things like “GO SHOVE A SHARP POINTED CACTUS UP WHERE THE SUN DON’T SHINE!,” or “What Retards!” is. You are lowering the tone of the discourse here by coming across as a crank. Cranks make lots of true, excessively detailed, and self-righteous statements that don’t contribute to the discussion. That’s what you are doing and people don’t like it. Please be advised that I have no intention of getting into a flame war with you, so don’t expect any replies from me as I will ignore them unless you radically change your tone and act like an adult.

[Note: I've deleted some of the comments from Neil Reinhardt to which some of these comments are responding; sorry if this makes the responses harder to grasp. -EV]

Malvolio: Are you kidding me? That period contains the worst economic contraction in human history. The immigration restrictions didn’t cause the contraction, but there’s no particular reason to believe they helped.

Many immigrants went back to Europe during the Great Depression in the US. The period from 1945 to 1965 had tremendous economic expansion without massive immigration.

Malvolio: I’ve never worked for a single company that could have survived without (highly paid, highly trained) immigrants

I doubt that, but it’s irrelevant to the question under discussion. The great bulk of the million legal immigrants are low-skilled, poorly educated migrants from the Third World. Cherry picking a few exceptions from Europe and Asia who work in Silicon Valley proves nothing about the bulk of the current immigrants as they are unrepresentative. The 500,000 illegal immigrants are an even bigger problem as they pay no income tax or engage in identity theft. They are a dead weight drag on the economy. While they provide a source of cheap labor, the cost of providing benefits exceeds their economic contribution. Currently we have 10.2% unemployment in the US and 17% in California. Does it make sense to have mass immigration when Americans are out of work?

Then they work hard to keep the most prevalent types of reasonable fear out of the hate crimes statutes, so their numbers don’t get overwhelmed and the message they wish to convey doesn’t get challenged.

Your “Henderson” example actually underscores the absurdity of these laws. Nobody is running around trying to kill everyone with the same last name. But thousands of sexual predators prey on women — women have to be especially careful doing everything from going jogging to walking to their cars after work — and the righteous activists of the hate crimes movement have used every trick in the book to keep women excluded as victims of hate, because counting them would overwhelm their statistics.

Of course, they’re absolutely right that counting women targeted for being female would “overwhelm” and “distract” prosecutors from the extremely rare and minor incidents they wish to highlight. So what? Isn’t the point “opposing hatred in all its manifestations”? If hate crime laws were what they purport to be, they would be unenforceable, and nobody would want to enforce them anyway.

The most deadly manifestation of violence in this country is minority-male on minority male, by a long shot. That’s where the most reasonable fear lies — for mothers wondering if their children will get home safely from school, for example. But these activists wish us to look elsewhere. It smacks of denial, among other things.

Another point I haven’t seen discussed: as Eric Holder plans to prosecute some of the 9/11 terrorists in federal court, will he charge them with hate crimes? That would certainly change the picture of hate in America — acknowledging that the most prevalent form of hatred that exists, by a power of, what — 600 — is hatred of Americans? It would alter the statistics — dwarf the statistics. Wouldn’t that necessitate changing what they teach kids in schools about bias crime?

This is the last thing Holder would allow. And that tells you everything you need to know about the real import of these laws.

Isn’t it about time to ban this Reinhardt person?

[Done. -EV]

This appears to be rather the opposite — it’s more like a black foreigner visiting the antebellum south, and not knowing that when somebody insults him he’s supposed to say “yes, Massa”, not challenge the cad to a duel the way white folks might have. If there’s hate involved, it was started by the person he attacked. Doesn’t make his behaviour right, and I’ll leave it to the lawyers to decide whether it should be called battery or just disturbing the peace.

Yep, that’s pretty much the scenario I had in mind. And this case may possibly be that scenario, translating race into religion.

Sandy MacHoots:
I’d like to see a cite to someone who’s actually said “the hardest thing in America” is to be a white male.Or that being a modern American Christian is “equivalent to” being a slave in the antebellum South.I’ve never understood the attraction of setting up straw men to knock them down, but it sure seems to be popular.

This appears to be rather the opposite – it’s more like a black foreigner visiting the antebellum south, and not knowing that when somebody insults him he’s supposed to say “yes, Massa”, not challenge the cad to a duel the way white folks might have. If there’s hate involved, it was started by the person he attacked. Doesn’t make his behaviour right, and I’ll leave it to the lawyers to decide whether it should be called battery or just disturbing the peace.
And yeah, there’s discrimination against Christians and occasionally white people in the US, but that’s not what was happening here.

Because being a (white) Christian in America today is exactly like being a black person in the south before the Civil Rights movement. Cue up the holocaust comparisons soon…. First they came for my holidays, and I said nothing…

In this case the arrestee is a Moslim, not a Christian. And the incident suggests what I think could a real problem: the use of hate crimes legislation to target members of minorities. Think George Orwell.

One could certainly imagine the police in the South vigorously enforcing such legislation by arresting the black people (and only the black people) if some civil rights event resulted in an altercation. The altercation was racially motivated, was it not? Ergo, it’s a felony hate crime. What the arrestee did here was no civil rights march — I’m not defending his conduct or saying it was legal or proper — but nonethless the police and prosecutor response seems an overreaction.

This issue here is not hate crimes legislation enforced in a way that’s limited to its core purpose. It’s legislation stretched and overlawyered, which can be dangerous no matter what kind of legislation it is. Unfortunately, it can be used by the police to harass minorities in a way that’s the direct opposite of its intended purpose.

Would the police and prosecutor have done the same thing here if the religions were reversed?

Great Minds Discuss Ideas
Average Minds Discuss Events
SMALL minds (like yours) Discuss People

It seems you used your massive brain power to take my full name and do a goggle search. I’ll guess it took all of your intellectual abilities to complete such a massive undertaking & really challenged your intellectual abilities to do so.

You see, the difference be between most of you and I, is I HAVE the Honesty, Intestinal Fortitude and the Integrity to use my real full name. This while the rest of you cowards hide behind your computers and make comments about others.

In about 1964 I was given a nickname by one of my co-workers at the electronics division of NCR. It was “Nasty Neil”

When I asked John Shenski why he chose such a nick name for me, he replied it was because I WAS ALWAYS TELLING THE TRUTH and as most really do NOT like reading, or hearing truth, he thought it was an appropreate nick name for me.

Among those who know me well, I have a many year reputation for being one of the most honest and truthful people they have EVER met!

Yes, I have an real anger management problem which is vastly intensified when I am responding to fools like those in this thread who bitch at me because I post the truth about what THEIR Bible says about THEIR “god”.

Their make-believe god is only one god out of over 25,000 named gods. None of which have any real proof of existence!

And the ONLY reason MOST “believe” is because they were PROGRAMMED by their parents to do so. IF religious people had a clue, they would realize the ONLY reason they are the religion they are is because of who raised them.

And yes, there is a website about me which contains things I have ACTUALLY said as well as many things taken totally out of context, which are misrepresented. This website both misinforms and LIES about me.

It says I’ve done things I never did & tells lies about my drinking alcohol. It makes it sound like I was recently drinking on the beach when my last drink with any alcohol in it was August 20, 1983.

As the PUNK who said I was drinking on the beach was NOT was even born for many years until after I HAD QUIT drinking, this certainly makes him a LIAR!!

While I do not know what caused him to lie, I will guess it was probably due to my saying anyone who did not know the Iraq War is fully justified is EITHER too lazy to get the facts OR are just TOO STUPID to be able to comprehend what the facts mean or BOTH!) This statement of FACT tends to piss off Obots, the anti-war loons & the Clueless Clods of the Loony Left.

And children, I had not had an alcoholic drink for about a seven months BEFORE Professor EUGENE VOLOKH and I started working together at Ordain in 1984.

Even though the piss ant who started the website on me now denies it, he did so as after he read one of my posts on the Iraq War. He emailed me and had the gall to tell me I could NOT be an “Atheist” & Support the Iraq War. So I informed him his comments to me were totally STUPID. And the ONLY thing ALL Atheists have in common is their lack of belief in one, or more gods.

I can only guess he did not like being told the truth and so he started the website.

Are any of you so STUPID you think I would use my full name if I really cared what IDIOTS and LIARS say about me?

As those who disgree with me can NOT BEST ME using Knowledge, Facts and/or Logic, they attack me. Thus proving what Little Minded Retards they are!

I tell the truth and I present facts. IF some pin heads do not like it, TOUGH!

Neil C. Reinhardt

A. Zarkov: Hamid is a guest in the United States, and through his actions he has worn out his welcome

Yeah, I think we’d be better off without that guy personally. Your original post seemed to support deporting “a dozen million of recent immigrants”.

A. Zarkov: As for a “fatal blow” to the US economy, your will have to back that up with some kind of evidence. The virtually shut off immigration from 1925–1965 and we seemed to have survived that ok. The economy was alive and well in 1965.

Are you kidding me? That period contains the worst economic contraction in human history. The immigration restrictions didn’t cause the contraction, but there’s no particular reason to believe they helped.

I’ve been working in high-tech in Northern California for 15 years — I’ve never worked for a single company that could have survived without (highly paid, highly trained) immigrants — companies like Intel (CEO from Hungary), PayPal (CEO from Israel, CTO from the Ukraine), eBay (founder born in France of Iranian immigrants). What kind of shape the US, not to say the whole world, be without those kinds of immigrants, I shudder to think.

What absurdity: a scuffle in the mall over religion leads to multiple felony counts…

You have some self-education to do. Read the other comments, one of which debunks your statement.

JackOfClubs: Those of us who believe that hate crime legislation is improper need to stand up and be willing to potentially bear the brunt of a minor injustice in the service of a greater good.

Somehow, I don’t think you are going to be personally bearing the brunt of this incident for the greater good. So apparently you mean that you want others to be bearing the brunting etc.

The problem here is that unless a large amount of people agree that a law is bad, it’s probably not going away anytime soon. So yes, let the law be applied equally to all people, that its idiocy becomes apparent… and let the official permanent-victim groups that pushed this abomination be the first to feel its effects, because otherwise they’ll just prevent it from being repealed.

Thankfully, that is not the law, here, or in any other sane country.

I’d offer a couple of misdemeanors and call it good.

Upthread someone commented that he isn’t being very polite in his home country. Perhaps not, but was he being polite in his mind? And was he holding the pen out of the way, or threatening with it? Even if you saw it, you could easily mistake one for the other.

If I struggled briefly with somebody, I can imagine a button popping off a shirt. Does that mean it was stolen? Videos are so much better than eye witnesses, I think.

Baseballhead:
He’s a guest? If you stipulate that he entered the country illegally, then he’s not a guest, but a resident. If he broke a law, then he ought to be subject to the same penalties any resident of the U.S.A. would be subject to, and nothing more, your xenophobia notwithstanding.

If he entered the country illegally or overstayed his visa, then he should be deported on that alone. If he’s a legal resident then he’s a guest until he becomes a citizen. If he’s broken laws as guest then he should be deported as undesirable. Why would the US be obligated to allow him to remain? If we adopt a policy of deporting aliens who commit criminal acts, it sends a message we won’t tolerate alien criminal behavior. I don’t understand your opposition to deporting undesirables. What’s the point of keeping such people?

Can we deport people like Neil C. Reinhardt, who think that resorting to all caps somehow makes their argument irrestible? And who keep referring to nuanced sources like some website called “EVIL BIBLE” (no doubt it’s all in the caps). And who keep reposting the same incomprehensible fragment of a quote, over and over and over. . . .

No? Pity.

It seems Mr. Reinhardt has quite a reputation for those sorts of postings:

Don’t feed the troll.