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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Thanks to [Organization] for Their Help&#8221; &#8212; or Is It &#8220;for Its Help&#8221;?</title>
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	<description>Commentary on law, public policy, and more</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Poser</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690943</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Poser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 00:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690943</guid>
		<description>In my own usage, institutions take singular agreement; the plural  sounds like another dialect, not horribly wrong but not what I would say. It is, however, important to distinguish between institutions and collections of individuals referred to by morphologically singular nouns as for me the latter do take plural agreement. An example is: &quot;The government (of Canada) does not want to demand the repatriation of Omar Ahmed Khadr&quot; vs. &quot;the government have been accused of directing funds to their own constituencies&quot;. In the former case, &quot;government&quot; refers to the institution; in the latter case, it refers to the collection of individuals forming the government, that is, the Prime Minister and his cabinet.

Incidentally, English (in dialects other than my own) is not unique in treating institutions as plural. In Carrier, the native language of much of the central interior of British Columbia, institutions are often treated as human plural, e.g.  &quot;lugurma budayi&quot; = &quot;government chief&quot;, where bu- is the third person duo-plural possessive prefix, though they can also be treated as &quot;areal&quot; non-humans (and therefore necessarily singular since only human beings and dogs take plural agreement), e.g. &quot;&#039;Awhuz UNBC huba &#039;int&#039;en eh?&quot; = &quot;Are you still working for UNBC?&quot;, where huba is the postposition &quot;for&quot; inflected for an &quot;areal&quot; object.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my own usage, institutions take singular agreement; the plural  sounds like another dialect, not horribly wrong but not what I would say. It is, however, important to distinguish between institutions and collections of individuals referred to by morphologically singular nouns as for me the latter do take plural agreement. An example is: &#8220;The government (of Canada) does not want to demand the repatriation of Omar Ahmed Khadr&#8221; vs. &#8220;the government have been accused of directing funds to their own constituencies&#8221;. In the former case, &#8220;government&#8221; refers to the institution; in the latter case, it refers to the collection of individuals forming the government, that is, the Prime Minister and his cabinet.</p>
<p>Incidentally, English (in dialects other than my own) is not unique in treating institutions as plural. In Carrier, the native language of much of the central interior of British Columbia, institutions are often treated as human plural, e.g.  &#8220;lugurma budayi&#8221; = &#8220;government chief&#8221;, where bu- is the third person duo-plural possessive prefix, though they can also be treated as &#8220;areal&#8221; non-humans (and therefore necessarily singular since only human beings and dogs take plural agreement), e.g. &#8220;&#8216;Awhuz UNBC huba &#8216;int&#8217;en eh?&#8221; = &#8220;Are you still working for UNBC?&#8221;, where huba is the postposition &#8220;for&#8221; inflected for an &#8220;areal&#8221; object.</p>
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		<title>By: CJColucci</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690640</link>
		<dc:creator>CJColucci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690640</guid>
		<description>For sports teams, the idiomatic way seems to be, &lt;em&gt;e.g.&lt;/em&gt;, &quot;Dallas is,&quot;  &quot;the Cowboys are,&quot; and &quot;the Dallas [or Cowboy] organization is.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For sports teams, the idiomatic way seems to be, <em>e.g.</em>, &#8220;Dallas is,&#8221;  &#8220;the Cowboys are,&#8221; and &#8220;the Dallas [or Cowboy] organization is.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: That Guy</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690308</link>
		<dc:creator>That Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 22:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690308</guid>
		<description>Its.  No points for their.  It&#039;s, there, and they&#039;re earn immediate removal to the circular file.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its.  No points for their.  It&#8217;s, there, and they&#8217;re earn immediate removal to the circular file.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura(southernxyl)</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690288</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura(southernxyl)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690288</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Either “Sears is having its annual sale” or “Sears are having their annual sale,” but not “is ... their,” at least in careful written usage.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is my thought.  But in the world of &quot;Egg&#039;s 0.99c/doz&quot; it&#039;s probably a lost cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Either “Sears is having its annual sale” or “Sears are having their annual sale,” but not “is &#8230; their,” at least in careful written usage.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is my thought.  But in the world of &#8220;Egg&#8217;s 0.99c/doz&#8221; it&#8217;s probably a lost cause.</p>
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		<title>By: Second Amendment Sister</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690271</link>
		<dc:creator>Second Amendment Sister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690271</guid>
		<description>“Thanks to Attorney.org for &lt;del&gt;its&lt;/del&gt; &lt;i&gt;the&lt;/i&gt; kind words about our blog.”

FIFY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Thanks to Attorney.org for <del>its</del> <i>the</i> kind words about our blog.”</p>
<p>FIFY.</p>
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		<title>By: dcperson</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690252</link>
		<dc:creator>dcperson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690252</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-690192&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-690192&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;PersonFromPorlock&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: How about creating an all purpose pronoun for when meaning is clear from context but grammar is a tossup? “Smish,” maybe.&#160;Thus: “Thanks to [organization] for smish help.” And ““Sears is having smish annual blah blah&#160;sale.”&#160;...Sigh. I thought not.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A college professor did this with gender neutral singular pronouns. &quot;Hesh&quot; became the way of avoiding he/she. The professor wouldn&#039;t mark off for not doing it, of course, but it avoided the mess when writing papers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-690192">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-690192" rel="nofollow">PersonFromPorlock</a></strong>: How about creating an all purpose pronoun for when meaning is clear from context but grammar is a tossup? “Smish,” maybe.&nbsp;Thus: “Thanks to [organization] for smish help.” And ““Sears is having smish annual blah blah&nbsp;sale.”&nbsp;&#8230;Sigh. I thought not.
</p></blockquote>
<p>A college professor did this with gender neutral singular pronouns. &#8220;Hesh&#8221; became the way of avoiding he/she. The professor wouldn&#8217;t mark off for not doing it, of course, but it avoided the mess when writing papers.</p>
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		<title>By: jbeuks</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690219</link>
		<dc:creator>jbeuks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690219</guid>
		<description>If the verb used with a collective noun is singular (and according to any version of American usage that I&#039;m familiar with, it virtually always is in this situation), shouldn&#039;t the trailing pronoun also be singular?  Either &quot;Sears is having its annual sale&quot; or &quot;Sears are having their annual sale,&quot; but not &quot;is ... their,&quot; at least in careful written usage.

The Brits, of course, say &quot;Parliament are ...,&quot; but we say &quot;Congress is ... .&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the verb used with a collective noun is singular (and according to any version of American usage that I&#8217;m familiar with, it virtually always is in this situation), shouldn&#8217;t the trailing pronoun also be singular?  Either &#8220;Sears is having its annual sale&#8221; or &#8220;Sears are having their annual sale,&#8221; but not &#8220;is &#8230; their,&#8221; at least in careful written usage.</p>
<p>The Brits, of course, say &#8220;Parliament are &#8230;,&#8221; but we say &#8220;Congress is &#8230; .&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: PersonFromPorlock</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690192</link>
		<dc:creator>PersonFromPorlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690192</guid>
		<description>How about creating an all purpose pronoun for when meaning is clear from context but grammar is a tossup? &quot;Smish,&quot; maybe. 

Thus: “Thanks to [organization] for smish help.” And &quot;“Sears is having smish annual blah blah sale.” 

...Sigh. I thought not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about creating an all purpose pronoun for when meaning is clear from context but grammar is a tossup? &#8220;Smish,&#8221; maybe. </p>
<p>Thus: “Thanks to [organization] for smish help.” And &#8220;“Sears is having smish annual blah blah sale.” </p>
<p>&#8230;Sigh. I thought not.</p>
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		<title>By: Not My Leg</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690172</link>
		<dc:creator>Not My Leg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690172</guid>
		<description>Interesting, I am surprised that &#039;their&#039; wins out by a large margin. &quot;Thanks to Exxon for their...&quot; sounds wrong to me. Although not as wrong as *&quot;Exxon are drilling new oil wells&quot; which sounds entirely unacceptable to me.(I know that Professor Volokh is talking about only the first construction.)

A quick google search for Exxon reveals the in general the &quot;Exxon is&quot; construction is more common, with 62,000 hits to 42,000, and only one (or two) of the hits on the first page for &quot;Exxon are&quot; is actually relevant. The others are things like &quot;X and Exxon are&quot; or &quot;Dealers who deal with Exxon are&quot;, or the borderline &quot;They (Exxon) are[.]&quot;

I think there is strong evidence that &quot;[Organization] are&quot; is non-standard, perhaps so much so as to be incorrect. But apparently also strong evidence for &quot;Thanks to [Organization] for their...&quot; as standard, and probably more common than &quot;for its...&quot; I can see two explanations. First explanation, language is inconsistent. There is nothing inherently wrong with a plural construction being required in one context, and allowing choice in the other. That is just how language works sometimes. Language isn&#039;t logic. 

Second explanation; this is not switching from plural to singular in different constructions, it is just use of singular they. In the construction &quot;Thanks to [organization] for their...&quot; their is not referring to the organization as a plural, but is referring to it as a singular. This is pretty standard in English, and a natural shift from using they to refer to a singular person where gender is unknown or necessarily general (and it is inappropriate) to substituting they for it (their for its). The reason we don&#039;t see this in &quot;Exxon are&quot; is because there is no equivalent to the substitution of singular they when talking about verbs. If Exxon is a singular noun it will take is as its verb, not are. If we then shift to using they to refer to Exxon (as in the borderline case above) we necessarily shift to using &#039;are&#039; because *&quot;They is&quot; is nonstandard and very marked speech.

Of course, my evidence for &quot;[organization] are&quot; being non-standard is based on very brief research, and someone could obviously convince me otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, I am surprised that &#8216;their&#8217; wins out by a large margin. &#8220;Thanks to Exxon for their&#8230;&#8221; sounds wrong to me. Although not as wrong as *&#8221;Exxon are drilling new oil wells&#8221; which sounds entirely unacceptable to me.(I know that Professor Volokh is talking about only the first construction.)</p>
<p>A quick google search for Exxon reveals the in general the &#8220;Exxon is&#8221; construction is more common, with 62,000 hits to 42,000, and only one (or two) of the hits on the first page for &#8220;Exxon are&#8221; is actually relevant. The others are things like &#8220;X and Exxon are&#8221; or &#8220;Dealers who deal with Exxon are&#8221;, or the borderline &#8220;They (Exxon) are[.]&#8221;</p>
<p>I think there is strong evidence that &#8220;[Organization] are&#8221; is non-standard, perhaps so much so as to be incorrect. But apparently also strong evidence for &#8220;Thanks to [Organization] for their&#8230;&#8221; as standard, and probably more common than &#8220;for its&#8230;&#8221; I can see two explanations. First explanation, language is inconsistent. There is nothing inherently wrong with a plural construction being required in one context, and allowing choice in the other. That is just how language works sometimes. Language isn&#8217;t logic. </p>
<p>Second explanation; this is not switching from plural to singular in different constructions, it is just use of singular they. In the construction &#8220;Thanks to [organization] for their&#8230;&#8221; their is not referring to the organization as a plural, but is referring to it as a singular. This is pretty standard in English, and a natural shift from using they to refer to a singular person where gender is unknown or necessarily general (and it is inappropriate) to substituting they for it (their for its). The reason we don&#8217;t see this in &#8220;Exxon are&#8221; is because there is no equivalent to the substitution of singular they when talking about verbs. If Exxon is a singular noun it will take is as its verb, not are. If we then shift to using they to refer to Exxon (as in the borderline case above) we necessarily shift to using &#8216;are&#8217; because *&#8221;They is&#8221; is nonstandard and very marked speech.</p>
<p>Of course, my evidence for &#8220;[organization] are&#8221; being non-standard is based on very brief research, and someone could obviously convince me otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Jules Bernard</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690115</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules Bernard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690115</guid>
		<description>English isn&#039;t math.  It&#039;s a language, with idioms and idiosyncrasies and variations and general messiness.  You can look to rules for help, but rules only go so far.  You either speak the language like a native or you don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>English isn&#8217;t math.  It&#8217;s a language, with idioms and idiosyncrasies and variations and general messiness.  You can look to rules for help, but rules only go so far.  You either speak the language like a native or you don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Inkmiser</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-690080</link>
		<dc:creator>Inkmiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-690080</guid>
		<description>The problem is not with the pronoun, but with the antecedent.  If the speaker is thanking the people, then he should thank the people, not the organization.  The sentence shows that the speaker isn&#039;t really sure who he is thanking.  The error (if you view the lack of agreement as one) is with the choice of the object.  The pronoun choice merely reveals the error in thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is not with the pronoun, but with the antecedent.  If the speaker is thanking the people, then he should thank the people, not the organization.  The sentence shows that the speaker isn&#8217;t really sure who he is thanking.  The error (if you view the lack of agreement as one) is with the choice of the object.  The pronoun choice merely reveals the error in thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Eugene Volokh</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689984</link>
		<dc:creator>Eugene Volokh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689984</guid>
		<description>Sitzpinkler is being &lt;a href=&quot;http://volokh.com/posts/1186173317.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;snarky&lt;/a&gt;.

Snaphappy:  I&#039;m speaking here of the usage in thanking (and the evidence from my quick and dirty queries on the subject), and not of the usage in broader references to the actions of entities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sitzpinkler is being <a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1186173317.shtml" rel="nofollow">snarky</a>.</p>
<p>Snaphappy:  I&#8217;m speaking here of the usage in thanking (and the evidence from my quick and dirty queries on the subject), and not of the usage in broader references to the actions of entities.</p>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689969</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689969</guid>
		<description>The folks over at Language Log have dealt with the use of &lt;a href=&quot;http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=27&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;singular they&lt;/a&gt; several times now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The folks over at Language Log have dealt with the use of <a href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?cat=27" rel="nofollow">singular they</a> several times now.</p>
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		<title>By: Snaphappy</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689950</link>
		<dc:creator>Snaphappy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689950</guid>
		<description>Oh yes, it&#039;s quite common to read, &quot;The Supreme Court handed down their opinion in...&quot;  Standard usage, much more common than &quot;The Supreme Court handed down its opinion in ...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yes, it&#8217;s quite common to read, &#8220;The Supreme Court handed down their opinion in&#8230;&#8221;  Standard usage, much more common than &#8220;The Supreme Court handed down its opinion in &#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sitzpinkler</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689930</link>
		<dc:creator>sitzpinkler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689930</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-689905&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-689905&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Schwartz&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: Using ‘their’ treats the organization more as a means of organizing the actions of its members.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Silence.  If you keep saying things like that, the Gender Neutral Pronoun Brigade will add another rule to its book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-689905">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-689905" rel="nofollow">David Schwartz</a></strong>: Using ‘their’ treats the organization more as a means of organizing the actions of its members.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Silence.  If you keep saying things like that, the Gender Neutral Pronoun Brigade will add another rule to its book.</p>
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		<title>By: sitzpinkler</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689924</link>
		<dc:creator>sitzpinkler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689924</guid>
		<description>Its.  Its.  Its.

P.S. Its.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its.  Its.  Its.</p>
<p>P.S. Its.</p>
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		<title>By: Doc Merlin</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689923</link>
		<dc:creator>Doc Merlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689923</guid>
		<description>Organizations in general are singular in American English and plural in British English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Organizations in general are singular in American English and plural in British English.</p>
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		<title>By: Splunge</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689922</link>
		<dc:creator>Splunge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689922</guid>
		<description>Well it could be worse.  I hazard that in 50 years the sex sensitivities of the colloquial speaker will have caused the formal replacement of the generic singular pronoun (he) with the plural pronoun (they), which is safely without gender.  Already constructions like these are ubiquitous among high-school age writers, and sanctioned by their teachers:

&lt;i&gt;Everyone must choose their own path.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Each student selects their thesis topic.&lt;/i&gt;

Note in the second example the jarring (I hope!) juxtaposition of the singular verb with the plural pronoun.  This is the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it could be worse.  I hazard that in 50 years the sex sensitivities of the colloquial speaker will have caused the formal replacement of the generic singular pronoun (he) with the plural pronoun (they), which is safely without gender.  Already constructions like these are ubiquitous among high-school age writers, and sanctioned by their teachers:</p>
<p><i>Everyone must choose their own path.</i></p>
<p><i>Each student selects their thesis topic.</i></p>
<p>Note in the second example the jarring (I hope!) juxtaposition of the singular verb with the plural pronoun.  This is the future.</p>
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		<title>By: jss</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689913</link>
		<dc:creator>jss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689913</guid>
		<description>The only rule of grammar to remember is, &quot;when 2 vowels go walking, the first one does the talking&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only rule of grammar to remember is, &#8220;when 2 vowels go walking, the first one does the talking&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: David Schwartz</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689905</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schwartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689905</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s pretty clear that neither is incorrect. I also think there&#039;s a different &#039;feel&#039; to the two. Using &#039;its&#039; treats the organization as an entity capable of acting as its own. Using &#039;their&#039; treats the organization more as a means of organizing the actions of its members.

I would suspect that the larger, more formal, and more bureaucratic the organization, the more frequently you would see &quot;its&quot;. An exception will likely be organizations that by their name suggest a group of people. For example, &quot;X Committee for its&quot; is less common than &quot;X Committee for their&quot; because the word &quot;committee&quot; strongly reminds us that it&#039;s a group of people. (And same for &quot;group for its/their&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s pretty clear that neither is incorrect. I also think there&#8217;s a different &#8216;feel&#8217; to the two. Using &#8216;its&#8217; treats the organization as an entity capable of acting as its own. Using &#8216;their&#8217; treats the organization more as a means of organizing the actions of its members.</p>
<p>I would suspect that the larger, more formal, and more bureaucratic the organization, the more frequently you would see &#8220;its&#8221;. An exception will likely be organizations that by their name suggest a group of people. For example, &#8220;X Committee for its&#8221; is less common than &#8220;X Committee for their&#8221; because the word &#8220;committee&#8221; strongly reminds us that it&#8217;s a group of people. (And same for &#8220;group for its/their&#8221;.)</p>
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		<title>By: Laura(southernxyl)</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689903</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura(southernxyl)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689903</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always thrilled when statements like that have internal consistency, regardless of which way they go.  &quot;Sears is having their annual blah blah sale&quot; sends chills down my spine.  Pick one or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always thrilled when statements like that have internal consistency, regardless of which way they go.  &#8220;Sears is having their annual blah blah sale&#8221; sends chills down my spine.  Pick one or the other.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689887</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689887</guid>
		<description>I Britishly recommend:-
“Thanks to Attorney.org for its kind words about our blog, which it labelled its Blog of the Year”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I Britishly recommend:-<br />
“Thanks to Attorney.org for its kind words about our blog, which it labelled its Blog of the Year”</p>
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		<title>By: cirby</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689885</link>
		<dc:creator>cirby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689885</guid>
		<description>&quot;Thanks to the people at Attorney.org for their...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Thanks to the people at Attorney.org for their&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Nutter</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689883</link>
		<dc:creator>Nutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689883</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never liked the cyclic reasoning of the paradigm that if an otherwise incorrect use of grammar or spelling becomes widespread, it is declared to be henceforth correct.

If you want to use &quot;they&quot; in this context, then rephrase it as &quot;I would like to thank the editors at Attorney.org for their kind words...&quot; or &quot;to thank the members of Attorney.org...&quot;  Otherwise Attorney.org is a singular noun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never liked the cyclic reasoning of the paradigm that if an otherwise incorrect use of grammar or spelling becomes widespread, it is declared to be henceforth correct.</p>
<p>If you want to use &#8220;they&#8221; in this context, then rephrase it as &#8220;I would like to thank the editors at Attorney.org for their kind words&#8230;&#8221; or &#8220;to thank the members of Attorney.org&#8230;&#8221;  Otherwise Attorney.org is a singular noun.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Gribble</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/18/thanks-to-organization-for-their-help-or-is-it-for-its-help/comment-page-1/#comment-689877</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Gribble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:15:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=21721#comment-689877</guid>
		<description>Professor Eugene, you waste your talents on teaching law, English is the field for you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Professor Eugene, you waste your talents on teaching law, English is the field for you!</p>
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