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	<title>Comments on: Kopel brief in McDonald v. Chicago</title>
	<atom:link href="http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/</link>
	<description>Commentary on law, public policy, and more</description>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-943193</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 07:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-943193</guid>
		<description>Are you guys seeing short sales just dominate your market?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you guys seeing short sales just dominate your market?</p>
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		<title>By: What&#8217;s that Smell? &#171; Conservative Libertarian Outpost</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-712947</link>
		<dc:creator>What&#8217;s that Smell? &#171; Conservative Libertarian Outpost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-712947</guid>
		<description>[...] David B. Kopel The Volokh Conspiracy November 23, 2009 http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] David B. Kopel The Volokh Conspiracy November 23, 2009 <a href="http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/" rel="nofollow">http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LarryA</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-694292</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-694292</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-693155&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-693155&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Roger&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: Isn’t there an inconsistency in saying that (1) repealing a ban on handgun sales made no difference in crime rates, but (2) imposing a ban on handgun sales increased crime rates? Isn’t the obvious resolution of the conflict to say that there is likely some other factor that caused one of the effects?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;It&#039;s the position of the anti gun folks that if bans are relaxed crime will increase, and that bans lead to reduction in crime. The two studies show that neither is true.

Are there other factors involved? Undoubtedly. And gun control, like any quack cure, can result in the other factors being disregarded. The result can be that policies and programs that could make a difference won’t get implemented, as politicians squander resources on the politically correct policy even after it’s proven ineffective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-693155">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-693155" rel="nofollow">Roger</a></strong>: Isn’t there an inconsistency in saying that (1) repealing a ban on handgun sales made no difference in crime rates, but (2) imposing a ban on handgun sales increased crime rates? Isn’t the obvious resolution of the conflict to say that there is likely some other factor that caused one of the effects?
</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s the position of the anti gun folks that if bans are relaxed crime will increase, and that bans lead to reduction in crime. The two studies show that neither is true.</p>
<p>Are there other factors involved? Undoubtedly. And gun control, like any quack cure, can result in the other factors being disregarded. The result can be that policies and programs that could make a difference won’t get implemented, as politicians squander resources on the politically correct policy even after it’s proven ineffective.</p>
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		<title>By: Federal Farmer</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693985</link>
		<dc:creator>Federal Farmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 20:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693985</guid>
		<description>Great work, as usual, Dave!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great work, as usual, Dave!</p>
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		<title>By: JohnF</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693704</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693704</guid>
		<description>Ed,

First, statistical work is routinely admitted at trials, if the conclusions of the statistical studies have any relevance to the issues at hand.

Second, the &quot;sub rosa&quot; reference was to the Court&#039;s use of facts, not to the briefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed,</p>
<p>First, statistical work is routinely admitted at trials, if the conclusions of the statistical studies have any relevance to the issues at hand.</p>
<p>Second, the &#8220;sub rosa&#8221; reference was to the Court&#8217;s use of facts, not to the briefs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693689</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693689</guid>
		<description>JohnF and Patrick216, the trial court is best suited for determining the facts of the case. Statistics about crime in a different state -- or even in the same city but unrelated to the crime charged -- would be inadmissible at the trial court. Appeals courts, in deciding the constitutionality of laws and their application, are implementing (sometimes crafting) public policy. In that role, scholarly studies on, e.g., socio-economics are entirely appropriate, and are the raison d&#039;etre of amici briefs. Finally, there is nothing &quot;sub rosa&quot; about it; the briefs are public records.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnF and Patrick216, the trial court is best suited for determining the facts of the case. Statistics about crime in a different state &#8212; or even in the same city but unrelated to the crime charged &#8212; would be inadmissible at the trial court. Appeals courts, in deciding the constitutionality of laws and their application, are implementing (sometimes crafting) public policy. In that role, scholarly studies on, e.g., socio-economics are entirely appropriate, and are the raison d&#8217;etre of amici briefs. Finally, there is nothing &#8220;sub rosa&#8221; about it; the briefs are public records.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle &#187; Boxers or briefs</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693639</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle &#187; Boxers or briefs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693639</guid>
		<description>[...] Dave Kopel [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dave Kopel [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Valentino Rossi</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693609</link>
		<dc:creator>Valentino Rossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693609</guid>
		<description>JB, Thanks for the link; it was well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JB, Thanks for the link; it was well done.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Blackman</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693520</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Blackman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 05:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693520</guid>
		<description>Check out my podcast with Dave Kopel about his amicus brief in McDonald. http://joshblackman.com/blog/?p=2540</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out my podcast with Dave Kopel about his amicus brief in McDonald. <a href="http://joshblackman.com/blog/?p=2540" rel="nofollow">http://joshblackman.com/blog/?p=2540</a></p>
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		<title>By: JoshCasts: Interview with Dave Kopel on McDonald v. Chicago &#124; Josh Blackman&#39;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693396</link>
		<dc:creator>JoshCasts: Interview with Dave Kopel on McDonald v. Chicago &#124; Josh Blackman&#39;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693396</guid>
		<description>[...] and frequent blogger of the Volokh Conspiracy took a few minutes to chat with me about the amicus brief he filed in McDonald v. Chicago. Dave presents some fascinating empirical data about the effects of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and frequent blogger of the Volokh Conspiracy took a few minutes to chat with me about the amicus brief he filed in McDonald v. Chicago. Dave presents some fascinating empirical data about the effects of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick216</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693236</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick216</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693236</guid>
		<description>I took a few economic classes from Carl Moody when I was at William &amp; Mary.  Great guy.  Nice study.

JohnF--I agree that these kinds of briefs invite subrosa factfinding at the appellate level.  But the problem is that it&#039;s kind of a prisoner&#039;s dilemma--the other side of the argument is going to file these kinds of things, so you better file your own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I took a few economic classes from Carl Moody when I was at William &amp; Mary.  Great guy.  Nice study.</p>
<p>JohnF&#8211;I agree that these kinds of briefs invite subrosa factfinding at the appellate level.  But the problem is that it&#8217;s kind of a prisoner&#8217;s dilemma&#8211;the other side of the argument is going to file these kinds of things, so you better file your own.</p>
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		<title>By: JohnF</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693171</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693171</guid>
		<description>The submission of this sort of thing to the Court, not to mention its possible consideration of it, subverts the notion that fact-finding is for the tribunal that can hear cross-examination, can evaluate the expertise of the proponents of a study, can weigh their opinions against competing ones and can, generally, assess credibility. That is, the trial court.

It is regrettable that this has become commonplace in the Supreme Court, which will doubtless make overt and sub rosa fact findings throughout whatever opinion it issues, without those facts having been given the scrutiny that lower-court fact finding could provide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The submission of this sort of thing to the Court, not to mention its possible consideration of it, subverts the notion that fact-finding is for the tribunal that can hear cross-examination, can evaluate the expertise of the proponents of a study, can weigh their opinions against competing ones and can, generally, assess credibility. That is, the trial court.</p>
<p>It is regrettable that this has become commonplace in the Supreme Court, which will doubtless make overt and sub rosa fact findings throughout whatever opinion it issues, without those facts having been given the scrutiny that lower-court fact finding could provide.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Lunny</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693159</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Lunny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693159</guid>
		<description>A very impressive work,well thought out and supported by valid, demonstrable data. The only mistake that I see, a mistake common to all supporting arguments of the right of Americans to firearms possession, is presuming that those whom profess to &quot;protect&quot; the public by restricting possession, indeed ownership, of firearms by the public are in any fashion honest about their concerns or aims. Those whom profess concern for &quot;public safety&quot; invariably retain special rights for themselves and their allies. That Chicago aldermen are considered to be agents of law enforcement is just one instance, there are others. To reprise the comment above, yes, thank you very much for your, and your assistants efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very impressive work,well thought out and supported by valid, demonstrable data. The only mistake that I see, a mistake common to all supporting arguments of the right of Americans to firearms possession, is presuming that those whom profess to &#8220;protect&#8221; the public by restricting possession, indeed ownership, of firearms by the public are in any fashion honest about their concerns or aims. Those whom profess concern for &#8220;public safety&#8221; invariably retain special rights for themselves and their allies. That Chicago aldermen are considered to be agents of law enforcement is just one instance, there are others. To reprise the comment above, yes, thank you very much for your, and your assistants efforts.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693155</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693155</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t there an inconsistency in saying that (1) repealing a ban on handgun sales made no difference in crime rates, but (2) imposing a ban on handgun sales increased crime rates? Isn&#039;t the obvious resolution of the conflict to say that there is likely some other factor that caused one of the effects?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t there an inconsistency in saying that (1) repealing a ban on handgun sales made no difference in crime rates, but (2) imposing a ban on handgun sales increased crime rates? Isn&#8217;t the obvious resolution of the conflict to say that there is likely some other factor that caused one of the effects?</p>
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		<title>By: SunTzu's Nephew</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/11/23/kopel-brief-in-mcdonald-v-chicago/comment-page-1/#comment-693142</link>
		<dc:creator>SunTzu's Nephew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22009#comment-693142</guid>
		<description>Thank you very, very much for your fine work</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very, very much for your fine work</p>
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