From the Catholic News Agency:
For several days massive mobs of Muslims have been attacking Coptic Christians in the Egyptian town of Farshoot 300 miles south of Cairo. The mobs’ looting, vandalism and arson have caused at least $1 million in damage as Copts hide indoors for fear of their lives.Many Copts have been attacked and injured, the Coptic American Friendship Association (CAFA) says. Coptic priest Rev. Benjamin Noshi suffered a fractured skull in the attacks and is now hospitalized.
Nearly 3,000 Muslims have been damaging and looting at least 50 Christian-owned shops, including jewelry stores and pharmacies. Most Coptic businesses in Farshoot have been looted or burned and many families have been thrown out of their homes by other Muslim residents.
The attacks were sparked by a claim that a 20-year-old Christian man, who is in custody, had a relationship with a 12-year-old Muslim girl….
The Assyrian International News Agency has similar reports; thanks to Religion Clause for the pointer.
Disintelligenstia says:
Other news and local reports on the religiously motivated violence:
AFP: Muslims Burn Christian Shops: Police.
Jawa Report – with video of shops burning.
A summary from REAL (an advocacy group)
Video of the looting and burning as it was progressing.
What just purpose is served by terrorizing innocent people for the alleged actions of one person? Even the allegation itself is dubious as these kinds of allegations regularly are used as a pretext to attack and steal from Christians in the Middle East and Asia. Copts in Egypt and Christians in general in the ME and Asia are discriminated against and the violence and discrimination is sanctioned or condoned by the State.
November 29, 2009, 6:23 pmnicehonesty says:
While some will be quick to condemn this rare outburst of violence by Muslims against people of another faith, it’s important to remember that someone in some story in some book of the Bible probably also looted something, or vandalized something, or burned something, or attacked someone. In other words, these Christians were practically begging for what they got by following the teachings of such a vile holy book.
The real tragedy here is that these Christian interlopers effectively forced so many followers of the religion of peace to go into such an uncharacteristic frenzy of mayhem and destruction. We must be vigilant and ensure that these events do not trigger any kind of anti-Muslim backlash.
November 29, 2009, 6:27 pmAchilles says:
When will the worlds major religions condemn the muslim prophet Muhammad for having sex with his 9 year old wife, named Aisha. Pedophilia is a crime in most of the world, but I don’t see muslims condemning their prophet for his crime. Oh, I forget: their god, allah, gave him permission to have sex with a child.
November 29, 2009, 6:47 pmgeokstr says:
You forgot to mention that pedophilia is not only permissible but since the prophet himself did it, it is looked upon favorably by the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. There are a huge number of reports of 10-12 year old girls being married off to 70-80 year old Muslims, who are often their own uncles or other relatives. There was even a case of a recording of an underage girl that surfaced in Tennessee (IIRC) talking about her “husband”, so it’s not just a furrin’ thing.
In addition to using this as a phony excuse, this is a case of hypocritical projection, if it’s possible for those two pathologies to exist together.
November 29, 2009, 6:57 pmptt says:
Religion Clause mentions only the Assyrian International News Agency story. Odd to give Religion Clause “pointer” credit and then use the more inflammatory CNA version, though I can see that it makes for better fodder.
November 29, 2009, 7:04 pmMark Field says:
Roman Polanski moved to Egypt and converted to Christianity?
November 29, 2009, 7:06 pmricky says:
These Egyptian Muslim teabaggers have obviously been watching too much Glenn Beck.
November 29, 2009, 7:10 pmAchilles says:
Last year I read an article that the Ayatollah Khomeini’s ten year old wife had a miscarriage back in the early or mid 1970′s. Of course the French turned a blind eye to that.
Honestly, I can’t find this article and if someone does find it, please post.
Muhammads pedophilia is an embarressment to some muslums; but not all. He was 55 years old when he consumated the marriage. Disgusting.
November 29, 2009, 7:28 pmBruce Hayden says:
Except that the Muslims are the interlopers here. Well, actually, probably nobody is an interloper, but rather, the ancestors of the Christians probably converted maybe 500-600 years before the ancestors of the Muslims did.
November 29, 2009, 8:37 pmObserver says:
Really, really sad that the mainstream media has gotten so bad that you need to go to sites like “Catholic News Agency” to find out about this.
November 29, 2009, 8:42 pmNotMickeyKaus says:
TNR’s Bob Wright blames the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan for this violence. But he’s not sure Islam was a factor in the outbreak.
Yeah, Bob, you’re getting a bit overboard with this argument. It’s not all without merit but rein it in.
He does read this blog, right?
November 29, 2009, 9:10 pmRandy says:
geoskr: “You forgot to mention that pedophilia is not only permissible but since the prophet himself did it, it is looked upon favorably by the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. ”
At first, I thought you were talking about the Catholic Church in Ireland. My mistake.
November 29, 2009, 10:14 pmdispatches from TJICistan » Blog Archive » anti-Christian rioting in Egypt says:
[...] http://volokh.com/2009/11/29/alleged-ant… [...]
November 29, 2009, 10:35 pmJohn Moore says:
Allegedly??
November 29, 2009, 11:10 pmSeekTruthItIsThere says:
Good God man, would you be so blatently biased as to suggest that because a demographic reads and follows the guidelines of a book containing stories, fables, and aphorisms hardly meant to be taken literally that they should then be made victim to such described atrocities? How on earth would you suggest that the copts are the ones enabling mayhem and destruction? And how on earth is potential anti-muslim backlash more relevant or a more important factor than their rights and safety?
November 29, 2009, 11:38 pmPeter Waldo says:
Another fight to the death over the question of who has the best imaginary friend. Religion is, in the main, odious.
November 29, 2009, 11:49 pmRandy says:
Peter: “Another fight to the death over the question of who has the best imaginary friend. Religion is, in the main, odious.”
Or, to put it another way, another fight to the death to prove who loves God the most.
November 29, 2009, 11:51 pmfair_play says:
What I find interesting about this particular nugget is that of course it profiles once again those ‘dreadful Muslims’. This of course wouldn’t be a trend in the Volokh Conspiracy, so I’m sure it’s just one of those one-off things.
Are Muslims more given to pack behavior than other religious types? I would have to say almost certainly not, but the odd thing is we don’t often read about say Jewish excesses of this type or Christian excesses for that matter – not that there aren’t lots of examples of nutty Christian nationalism in Eastern Europe for example. When there is some incident in foreign lands involving a mob, the perps almost always turn out to be Muslims.
So in the name of balance which I’m sure the Volokh Conspiracy is all for, I though I’d bring to readers attention a story not so long in Haaretz about spitting Jews. These weren’t simply people with phlegm who needed to clear their throat, but rather they were if you like spittle-thugs who were targeting Christians.
The Haaretz article quotes a Greek Orthodox clergyman who said “he was used” to being spat upon. In other words flying spittle was a sort of expected part of his daily routine. This came to light when the clergyman in question got into his car in the Givat Shaul quarter of Jerusalem, and noticed that a man wearing a skullcap was tapping on the window. When the cleric rolled down the window, the man spat directly into his face.
It turns out according to the report, that this wasn’t at all a random occurrence. Many clergymen have come to expect the same treatment. A percentage of the people doing the spitting are yeshiva students who get some sort of perverse thrill from spitting not only at Christians, but at crosses also whenever they are within range. A fracas broke out during a procession at the Holy Sepulchar in the Old City after a yeshiva student spat on a cross – and in the ensuing melee a 17th century cross was broken.
Armenian prelates claim these assaults have been going on “for years”. Archbishop Nourhan Manougian made the comment that – “When there is an attack against Jews anywhere in the world, the Israeli government is incensed, so why when our religion and pride are hurt, don’t they take harsher measures?”
These attacks escalate during key periods on the religious calendar. A former adviser to the Religious Affairs Ministry, Daniel Rossing, says that during Purim many Christians lock themselves indoors for fear of being assaulted.
Okay you may think, just some out-of-control students. But not so. An adviser to the mayor on Christian affairs, Shmuel Evyatar, said that when he was walking with a Serbian bishop he was also spat upon by a group of yeshiva students while their teacher stood by and watched.
Police claim they get few complaints, but the reason is that the injured parties don’t believe they will receive any justice and simply find a way of coping with these spittle assaults.
Curiously enough, when the Haaretz story came out it didn’t get much play. Now if it had been Muslims spitting at Christians and Jews, attacking their religious processions, spitting on their relics etc in some other Middle Eastern capital – the story would be trumpeted everywhere as evidence of dreadful Muslim extremism and bigotry.
November 30, 2009, 1:16 amGuy says:
Your irony meter needs a tune-up.
Your attempts to portray religiously motivated violence and hatred as a peculiarly Muslim phenomenon are unconvincing, as is your strawman that any rational person would argue that the Christians “had it coming”. The problem is that you see all events like this as a “Muslims versus Christians” thing rather than an “ignorant, bigoted, and powerful majority versus disenfrachised and helpless minority” thing.
November 30, 2009, 2:00 amEugene Volokh says:
Fair_Play: I am very happy to condemn spitting on people, including spitting on people based on their religion. I hadn’t heard of the story, though, until know. Might this be largely because stories about arson and fractured skulls rightly have a higher profile than stories about spitting (reprehensible as spitting on people might be)?
November 30, 2009, 2:09 amfair_play says:
Actually I was less interested in matching atrocity with atrocity – an injury tally as it were – than addressing ethnic-based hatred and religious extremism, which the Jerusalem story most certainly reflects. There have also been physical assaults. The melee cited in the article involved injuries.
My main point though is that if the story had involved Muslims it would have received much wider international coverage. So I’m not surprised its the first time you have heard about it.
November 30, 2009, 3:02 amRicardo says:
Christopher Hitchens wrote an article about the slaughter of pigs within Cairo, supposedly as a public health measure to combat swine flu. In reality, it seems to have been another manifestation of anti-Christian politics (the owners of pigs are generally Coptic Christians while the supporters of the pig slaughter were mostly Muslims).
More generally, while suicide bombings may be largely restricted to Islamic fundamentalists (although the now-defeated Tamil Tigers used the tactic in their war with Sri Lanka) nearly every group has engaged in communal violence like this at one time or another. Hindus and Sikhs in India have engaged in rather more vicious actions against Muslims and have been similarly victimized in the past. The Christian Phalangists of Lebanon infamously massacred the mostly Muslim residents of the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps in 1982 while past pograms against Jewish communities in Europe often were explicitly Christian in motivation — especially the ones that would occur around Good Friday.
November 30, 2009, 3:32 amnumeral says:
fair_play your arguments have no merit, intolerance isn’t new and doesn’t only come from religion, sure there are plenty of nutjobs in Jerusalem and by the same token there are plenty of jews that think people like that are assholes. The difference is that in Israel any violence is prosecuted no matter what the cause, whether racial/religious intolerance or plain thuggery the rule of law trumps all. On the other hand in certain muslim(read theocratic, not speaking of egypt in particular) countries if a minority is beaten or harassed chances are that he has no options other than to suck it up and move on.
As to the christians in Israel I personally don’t have any knowledge to that but I’m pretty sure they could file harassment charges, I doubt it would help heal bridges or whatnot but that isn’t the point, if they don’t feel the necessity to file charges then why should the government step in and “do something”, whatever that may be. I don’t see the US government taking neo-nazis to concentration camps and correcting their mental issues or whatever. On the other hand if physical violence was involved, especially at the scale of a large melee I’d bet my sweet ass that someone went to the pokey and most probably it was both jews and christians, mind you I don’t know the specifics so I could be wrong.
P.S. there’s plenty of muslim on jew violence here that doesn’t get reported internationally and vice versa
November 30, 2009, 7:55 amBob Lipton says:
You mean the Copts, who have been around since, oh, 100 AD? Yeah, interlopers is the word.
Bob
November 30, 2009, 7:57 amJust Dropping By says:
There are a huge number of reports of 10–12 year old girls being married off to 70–80 year old Muslims, who are often their own uncles or other relatives. There was even a case of a recording of an underage girl that surfaced in Tennessee (IIRC) talking about her “husband”, so it’s not just a furrin’ thing.
If you’re correct about the location of the incident being Tennessee, it just sounds like Muslims are assimilating into the local culture….
November 30, 2009, 10:04 amdavod says:
This is not an isolated incident. Reporting the riot is.
November 30, 2009, 11:06 amDotar Sojat says:
Why is this incident at all surprising?
November 30, 2009, 11:20 amfair_play says:
Numeral: “The difference is that in Israel any violence is prosecuted no matter what the cause, whether racial/religious intolerance or plain thuggery the rule of law trumps all.”
I’m not sure what Israel you are fondly imagining but activists on the front lines in Israel who actually monitor what goes on on the ground paint an entirely different picture – and thankfully the great Israeli newspaper Haaretz that doesn’t whitewash Israel’s shortcomings also speaks to reality. Try reading its pages as opposed to the apologists for all and everything Israeli.
In Israel, issues of justice often depend upon how much heat is being brought to bear on a given scandal. The spitting episodes went on for years and Israeli authorities – both judicial and ecclesiastical – were well aware of it but did little to crack down. As usual it took exposure in the press before action was taken, and even then these incidents continue. Eugene Volokh in responding to my post appeared to try to minimize the spitting incidents as compared to incidents involving “fractured skulls”. Being spat upon although less physically injurious, is incredibly demeaning and insulting – moreover it has been going on for years. Imagine if you had to go to a quarter of the city each day on business with the expectation of having to wipe spit off your clothes, hair, face… just so you could get to your place of work. Easy to shrug off from a distance, but not for people having to endure it.
I don’t even want to start with the inequities and violence in East Jerusalem directed toward Arabs – families evicted from homes they have lived in for generations forced to stand by as bulldozers destroy the little security they have. Municipal services in East Jerusalem are a joke and reflect the deep dyed inequities.
Another example of the tendency in Israel to ‘defer’ or push-under-the-rug horrendous crimes in which some fairly prominent citizens had a stake, is the sex trade. Israeli gangsters and their proxies have been operating in East European countries for some time, taking advantage of damaged economies and families in distress to lure young women to “work” abroad. They even used dummy ‘travel agencies’ and other fronts to paint rosy pictures of job opportunities overseas. Once recruited women from countries such as the Ukraine – many as young as 16 – were forced into what can only be described as sexual slavery. The eminent Canadian journalist, Victor Malarek, in his book “Natashas” did a brilliant job of uncovering the unbelievable crimes committed in the course of trafficking these women – who were treated no better than animals. The young women ended up in brothels in Tel Aviv and elsewhere. Given the history of the Jews in Europe and the appalling crimes committed against them by the Nazis, it is supremely ironical that a trade such as this – that dehumanized and degraded young women – was quietly tolerated until people like Malarek blew the whistle and human rights agencies made the Israeli trade a higher priority – then of course steps were taken.
As in many areas – judicial, military, diplomatic – Israel likes to have its cake and eat it too. Often it takes outside agencies and exposure to drive needed reform.
November 30, 2009, 12:07 pmBrett says:
Ah, sounds like a “moral panic” mob type of thing. You know the drill – some accusation (whether fraudulent or not) gets made against a disliked minority (like how in medieval times Jews would be accused of spreading plague or kidnapping christian children to use their blood in matzah), and a kind of lynch mob forms from the majority population (which had usually been boiling over for a variety of reasons). That mob then goes on a rampage.
Not surprising in Egypt, to be honest. There is a history of anti-coptic rioting and the like, and seeing as how unemployment is rampant among youth in particular and folks in general, there are plenty of people with nothing better to do who are available to do it.
November 30, 2009, 12:13 pmBrett says:
The main article also mentions that an “Islamic institute” probably played a role in egging on the attacks. The Egyptian authorities, of course, did nothing.
November 30, 2009, 12:22 pmGuy says:
How do you file harassment charges against a complete stranger who spits on you on the street and walks off? Physically detain them until they show ID? Similar situation with the riots; (though of course the scale is very different) rioters, even in the U.S., rarely face punishment, this is because it’s nearly impossible to do that. Now if the police are intentionally not trying to put the riots down (I don’t know if they are), that’s evidence that the hatred is more institutionalized in Egypt, but I don’t think anyone is arguing that it isn’t more institutionalized there, so I’m not sure what the point of showing that would be.
November 30, 2009, 12:59 pmThe Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Alleged Anti-Christian Riot … Christian by about says:
[...] original here: The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Alleged Anti-Christian Riot … By admin | category: christian | tags: 300-miles, christian, coptic, copts, [...]
November 30, 2009, 3:24 pmMJC says:
What is going on???? Are we all back in the days before Christ? We all worship the same God. God is Allah, Allah is God.
From Islamic Muslim website: http://www.spaceandmotion.com/religion-islam-muslim-islamic-quran.htm
Islam / Muslim
History & Beliefs of Islamic Religion.
Quran / Koran, Muhammad (Mohammed) Quotes
There is no god but God; Muhammad is the messenger of God.
Allah has revealed to me that you should adopt humility so that no one oppresses another.
(Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 1589)
Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. (Final Sermon of Muhammad)
We all need to practice what we preach. All men are human and the same.
As God sent down the “Tongues of Fire” to make us all speak different, we are different but still the same.
Please can’t we all just leave eachother alone?
November 30, 2009, 4:06 pmnumeral says:
I fondly imagine the Israel I live in and have lived in for the past decade, I’ve also served in the IDF for 4 years.
Your ignorance is showing, first of all these incidents aren’t only targeted at christians or muslims but also at non practicing jews, it’s a known problem and it isn’t new, that doesn’t mean the government needs to come into these neighborhoods and start taking people into jails for alleged spitting, my question to you is what do you think the appropriate action from the government is?
Link me to a news piece where a person gets spit upon daily while going to work, you’re just inventing invective, stop trying to paint a picture as if these people have no recourse but to get spit on or not to go to work. Unlike you, I live here, I know what actions I could take to stop this if it happened to me.
Again, why are you trying to paint all of Israeli society on gangsters? Every society has a problem with it’s outlaws, we aren’t perfect and neither are you and there’s definately a problem with russian/ukrainian girls who try and run away from those countries to find a better life here and get snared into prostitution. Is it disgusting? Yes. I don’t see the correlation with racial/religious intolerance though, the gangsters’ motives have nothing to do with race/religion.
That’s the whole problem Guy, you can’t file charges unless the person who spits on you is famous(a rabbi who is part of the community) or you know him personally, that’s my point. On the other hand if this happens daily you could file a complaint with the police and have them station police officers in the place this happens every day. Unless ofcourse you think these are ninja spitters who hide in corners and show up when you’re going through a lonely alley… in which case you’re either insane or
December 1, 2009, 3:06 amfair_play says:
So numeral – you live in Israel. Well I communicate with people who live in England and they know next to zero about what goes down in the streets of London. You personally hang out in Jerusalem and monitor these events?
I prefer to believe victim statements and eye witness accounts. Like most Israelis you whitewash dirty laundry and then use a big spin cycle to make it look good.
numeral: “Your ignorance is showing, first of all these incidents aren’t only targeted at christians or muslims but also at non practicing jews, it’s a known problem and it isn’t new, that doesn’t mean the government needs to come into these neighborhoods and start taking people into jails for alleged spitting, my question to you is what do you think the appropriate action from the government is?”
The majority of victims of this are Christian. Maybe a few non-practicing Jews get it – but probably only because the yeshiva thugs thought they were really Christians. And yes, the cops should absolutely act when something like this is A: a known crime B: ongoing C: a huge problem for an entire community.
Archbishop Nouran Manougian said: “When there is an attack against Jews anywhere in the world, the Israeli government is incensed, so why when our religion and pride are hurt, don’t they take harsher measures?”
numeral: “Link me to a news piece where a person gets spit upon daily while going to work, you’re just inventing invective, stop trying to paint a picture as if these people have no recourse but to get spit on or not to go to work. Unlike you, I live here, I know what actions I could take to stop this if it happened to me.”
The Haaretz article:
said this has been going on for years and clerics who work in some quarters of the city say they are always dealing with this. Note that I did not say it happens every day as you claim I said. I said that people who have been targeted go to work each day with “the expectation” that it may happen.
When they complain to the cops, nothing gets done. Some victims can’t even be bothered to report it because it makes no difference. Even if they ban some yeshiva student from an area of the city for spitting, well he will return when the ban is lifted. Point is why do yeshiva authorities not do something to make sure students stop this behavior? In one incident a yeshiva teacher stood and watched while his students spat on an Archbishop. They don’t do anything because privately they like it… they think it’s a big joke. If they didn’t think that, they would make rules and penalties to prevent the students from doing it.
numeral: “Again, why are you trying to paint all of Israeli society on gangsters? Every society has a problem with it’s outlaws, we aren’t perfect and neither are you and there’s definately a problem with russian/ukrainian girls who try and run away from those countries to find a better life here and get snared into prostitution. Is it disgusting? Yes. I don’t see the correlation with racial/religious intolerance though, the gangsters’ motives have nothing to do with race/religion.”
Excuse me? Where did I paint Israeli society as gangsters? If you are going to quote me at least don’t invent comments that I didn’t use. I said “Israeli gangsters”… same as Italian gangsters… mafia… dig??
Maybe you missed the drift of the comments but I moved to speak of crime in Israel in general after you made some remarkable comment about wonderful Israeli justice.
December 1, 2009, 10:11 amfair_play says:
I posted the url of the Haaretz article but it didn’t link.
Just Google… Jerusalem spitting incidents+Haaretz
December 1, 2009, 10:17 amTweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Alleged Anti-Christian Riot in Egypt -- Topsy.com says:
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Addie Bendory and CHRISTIAN_TWEET, Eugene Volokh. Eugene Volokh said: Alleged Anti-Christian Riot in Egypt: From the Catholic News Agency: For several days massive mobs of Muslims h.. http://bit.ly/7jrXzc [...]
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January 15, 2010, 11:09 pmBallet Pal says:
Have they never heard of civil disobedience?
August 16, 2010, 2:14 pm