Rising star fantasy writer Lev Grossman gives us his picks for the six greatest fantasy novels of all time [HT: Tyler Cowen]:
– The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis
– The Once and Future King by T.H. White
– Fritz Leiber’s Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories
– The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
– Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke
– Magic for Beginners by Kelly Link
Many of these are worthy and unsurprising choices. I question the selection of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, however. I tried to read it several years ago and couldn’t get through it despite the fact that I am a huge fantasy fan and generally like long books. Either my reaction was highly idiosyncratic or Clarke’s book is at least somewhat boring, and therefore not worthy of inclusion in this distinguished list. The Fafhrd and Gray Mouser series is an important landmark in the field, but not actually a novel (it’s a set of loosely connected short stories with the same central characters, much like the Sherlock Holmes series).
Finally, I have to admit that I haven’t read Magic for Beginners. It, like Fritz Leiber’s work, seems to be a collection of short stories. Is it as great as Grossman claims?
JasonF says:
I found Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell to be one of the best works of fiction I’ve read in years. So one of us is wrong, and I’ve got Lev Grossman on my side, so there.
By the way, Mr. Grossman’s novel The Magicians has been recommended to me by a number of friends; I recently picked up a copy and hope to make time to read it within the enxt few weeks. Here’s hoping it lives up to the recommendations.
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December 1, 2009, 4:07 pmDennis N says:
I hardly even know anyone who’s heard of the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories. They’re still among my faves.
I even named an all grey cat Fafhrd. The girls thought it a wierd name, but humored me. The cat didn’t care.
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December 1, 2009, 4:11 pmA Reader says:
I’ve gotten the impression that people either love Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell or had your reaction and couldn’t get past the first chapter. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of middle ground.
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December 1, 2009, 4:12 pmLou Wainwright says:
I found Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell to be quite meh. I had no trouble reading, or finishing, it, nor did I have any issues with the plotting or the writing. But it just didn’t seem to be anything special. Certainly not in my top 100 fantasy books.
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December 1, 2009, 4:12 pmMaureen says:
I think Kelly Link is the one with the story about the purse that’s a portal to another world. If so, that really is a great story, though I don’t know about it being mindboggling greatness of all time. Sixth favorite book for Grossman? That I can see.
Re: Jonathan Strange — I never did finish it. Part of the problem was that I saw what was going on so far ahead and so the happenings were more often depressing than intriguing; and the other problem was that the story kept shifting to boring just when it seemed to be getting up steam. I suppose I might get back to it someday; I only had another 100 pages or so to go.
It needed a few more amusing footnotes and 150 fewer pages of story. Clip out a word here and there, and the pacing would have worked.
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December 1, 2009, 4:21 pmAnderson says:
Clarke’s book was engaging but seemed to lose focus over the last third. Perhaps that’s what she was going for. But I’m afraid I suspect Grossman of being simply eager to include female writers on the list.
Including the Leiber tales is justified in terms of fantasy-literature importance, but then one has to explain why Jack Vance isn’t on the list. The Eyes of the Overworld is as much a novel as the Fafhrd-Mouser stories.
Perhaps a list like this should work in terms of authors, not books. T.H. White might then fall off; OAFK is a wonderful, beautiful book, but its influence on the fantasy genre doesn’t compare to Tolkien’s.
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December 1, 2009, 4:25 pmAnderson says:
... Trying to think of my favorite female fantasy writers, I find myself thinking of sword-and-science folks like C.J. Cherryh. My adolescent Morgaine crush, I suppose.
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December 1, 2009, 4:30 pmRichard Aubrey says:
LOTR is meant to be deep, and it is.
Gray mouser is just plain entertaining.
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December 1, 2009, 4:34 pmWidmerpool says:
No Gormenghast? An outrage!
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December 1, 2009, 4:35 pmWC says:
I think Barry Hugart’s Bridge of Birds belongs on any such list. It has some of the best story-telling I’ve ever encountered. I enjoyed Lieber’s Fafhrd-Mouser stories in high school, but they didn’t hold up well when I reread them 10 years later. I’ve never even heard of Johathan Strange nor Magic for Beginners.
Also, how can you leave out George R.R. Martin’s A Song Ice and Fire?
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December 1, 2009, 4:37 pmAnderson says:
I don’t think “depth” should be an essential for fantasy lit. Leiber is cheerfully anti-depth, as are his heroes.
... So the Peake books are worth reading, Widmerpool? Gotta go there again sometime.
... Speaking of Cherryh, her own list of essential SF/fantasy bears consideration.
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December 1, 2009, 4:38 pmpete says:
If you are going to include a Narnia book I would have gone with Voyage of the Dawn Treader. Pretty much every I talk to who has read the series thinks that is the best one.
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December 1, 2009, 4:40 pmA Reader says:
For whatever reason, I can never get into Cherryh, though people tell me she’s good.
I might include Naomi Novik’s His Majesty’s Dragon on my own list. I would definitely include the first book of George R.R. Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire, though I’m not sure the whole series is living up to that start.
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December 1, 2009, 4:41 pmAnderson says:
Also, how can you leave out George R.R. Martin’s A Song Ice and Fire?
One, it’s not finished. Two, speaking as someone who bought A Feast for Crows pretty much on sight, I’m still not sure how good it is. It still feels kinda derivative ... yes, yes, I know, feed me to the dragons. But it certainly doesn’t have the originality of the books Grossman listed.
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December 1, 2009, 4:43 pmNorthern Dave says:
Whereas I have a Moiraine crush :-) Robert Jordan’s WoT (Wheel of Time) series takes my vote for the best since Middle Earth. Book Twelve is just out written by Brandon Sanderson (Jordan sadly didn’t live long enough to finish his own epic...), but I haven’t read it yet (I’ve enjoyed Sanderson’s “Mistborn” series so I expect I’ll enjoy his continuing Jordan’s work off of his notes).
Wheel of Time has the tightest plot I can recall. Side comments in book one come into play books later and fit......
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December 1, 2009, 4:43 pmGuest101 says:
I loved Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell, though I’m not sure I’d include it on a list of best fantasy books ever. On the other hand, I hated almost every page of the LOTR trilogy though I forced myself to finish them. Can’t argue that they weren’t influential, though. I might add George R.R. Martin’s The Song of Ice and Fire series to the list, though many of his fans (myself included) are growing disenchanted with GRRM’s endless delays in finishing the series.
“Two, speaking as someone who bought A Feast for Crows pretty much on sight, I’m still not sure how good it is.”
I think we’ll have to wait for A Dance With Dragons–if it’s ever actually published– to make that determination, since A Feast for Crows purports to tell only half of the story. And in any case I think we should assess the series as a whole rather than any single entry, and it’s hard to argue that A Song of Ice and Fire on the whole is not largely original.
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December 1, 2009, 4:45 pmpete says:
Jonathan Strange is only a few years old, but it got did win a Hugo Award and a bunch of other awards as well when it came out.
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December 1, 2009, 4:45 pmKenvee says:
pete, really? Dawn Treader isn’t my least favorite, but it’s not at the top by any means. It seems too loosely connected, and some of the elements are more bizarre than the other parts of Narnia that we see. My favorite is definitely Prince Caspian.
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December 1, 2009, 4:46 pmmatth says:
Though not a huge fantasy fan, I was an enormous fan of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. Some of its images were so startling and strange that they’ve stayed with me for years. It’s a testimonial to how tightly controlled Clarke’s writing is that she progressed seamlessly from a drawing-room comedy to an uncanny fairy-tale full of wild magic and bizarre imaginary worlds.
I remember reading, when I was a kid, books like Lord of the Rings and the Once and Future King, and getting completely lost in their imaginary worlds. Now that’s a rare experience for me. I suppose that’s why I’m such a ferocious proponent of Strange & Norrel.
Anyway, I completely understand why some people don’t like it. If the tone and the imagery hadn’t perfectly resonated with me, I probably would have found it insufferable, because the plotting is both slow and really flabby. As it is, though, its one of my favorite *books*, period, one I revisit every few years.
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December 1, 2009, 4:51 pmef says:
Any title from Terry Pratchett.
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December 1, 2009, 4:51 pmAnthony says:
I’d be rather tempted to eliminate The lion, the witch, and the wardrobe; if you aren’t already steeped in Christian mythology it’s a very strange read, though it’s more readable than later books in the series, where the propaganda gets increasingly less well disguised (The Last Battle is atrocious).
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December 1, 2009, 4:51 pmAnderson says:
it’s hard to argue that A Song of Ice and Fire on the whole is not largely original
Really? I don’t mean it’s plagiarized or anything, but it doesn’t feel nearly as creative as the fantasy masterpieces. It’s a Fantasy Epic, well done, but (so far) nothing we haven’t seen before.
(Which is always what I suspected I would think of the Jordan books, plus the qualms of reading a series penned by the protagonist of For Whom the Bell Tolls. And when WoT came out, it was a victim of the bad cover art of the time. I should give it a whirl though.)
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December 1, 2009, 4:54 pmpete says:
And that is the only one of the series that I did not like and thought was boring.
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December 1, 2009, 4:55 pmAnderson says:
As it is, though, its one of my favorite *books*, period, one I revisit every few years.
Dude, it just came out in 2004 ... ;)
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December 1, 2009, 4:55 pmSenatorX says:
For whatever reason, I can never get into Cherryh, though people tell me she’s good.
I know exactly what you mean.
I might add George R.R. Martin’s The Song of Ice and Fire series to the list
I have had trouble enjoying these books though I know others that liked them. Now Wild Cards on the other hand (which he wasn’t the sole author on though), pure pleasure.
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December 1, 2009, 4:56 pmBrett says:
I think George RR Martin’s series or at least first book should still be on there. It’s a pretty solid example of the darker, more gritty type of fantasy. I don’t know if I would call it particularly original, though.
Feast definitely had its ups and downs, although after re-reading it a couple of times, I appreciate it more.
Some other good ones that I can think of:
Perdido Street Station by China Mieville.
The Darkness That Comes Before by R.Scott Bakker.
The latter borrows a lot in terms of battle descriptions from the Crusades, but the magic system is fascinating and highly original. It has generated some rather fascinating philosophical discussions among fans.
I’m also surprised no one has mentioned Gene Wolf. While I personally couldn’t stand his works, he usually comes up as a “great” in virtually every discussion I’ve ever read over the greatest fantasy authors.
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December 1, 2009, 4:56 pmGuest101 says:
Really? I don’t mean it’s plagiarized or anything, but it doesn’t feel nearly as creative as the fantasy masterpieces.
I’d say it’s at least as original as The Once and Future King, which likewise took a new perspective on somewhat familiar material. I think Martin deserves some credit for creating a fairly compelling human drama in a world usually populated more by clanging swords, snarling orcs, and black-and-white morality. Of course if there are a lot of similar books out there feel free to recommend some, as I’ve probably missed them.
The Jordan books I wouldn’t recommend– if you find Martin derivative just wait till you get to “the High King Artur Paendrag Hawkwing” in Wheel of Time.
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December 1, 2009, 5:01 pmAnderson says:
I think Martin deserves some credit for creating a fairly compelling human drama
True enough.
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December 1, 2009, 5:02 pmCornellian says:
I can’t believe no one has yet mentioned Roger Zelazny’s “Nine Princes in Amber”. Truly a classic.
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December 1, 2009, 5:03 pmAnderson says:
... Oh, and where’s the love for Moorcock? Eternal Champion? Elric?
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December 1, 2009, 5:03 pmAnderson says:
I can’t believe no one has yet mentioned Roger Zelazny’s “Nine Princes in Amber”. Truly a classic.
Yah, tho as I noted at the Crooked Timber thread on this same topic, his handling of females in the earlier, better works kinda grates on me now. Still, the first five (maybe, first four?) Amber books are excellent stuff.
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December 1, 2009, 5:05 pmCornellian says:
Wolfe’s “Shadow of the Torturer” series is so strange, so different, so hard even to describe that I can easily say I’ve never read another fantasy novel like it.
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December 1, 2009, 5:07 pmCrunchy Frog says:
I have to confess to only having read Nos. 1,2, and 4 on that list, nut still I wonder...
No love for Harry Potter? Sure it’s juvenile, but so is Lewis’s Narnia books (not to mention half of Heinlein’s nonpareil SF).
also worthy of mention — The Sword of Truth series from Terry Goodkind
A Song of Ice and Fire — George R.R. Martin (ongoing)
The Wheel of Time — the late great Robert Jordan (one installment left, to be finished by his heirs)
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December 1, 2009, 5:07 pmspostrel says:
How about Donaldson’s Chronicles of Covenant the Unbeliever–kind of the Watchmen of fantasy?
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December 1, 2009, 5:09 pmSenatorX says:
Or The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant by Stephen R. Donaldson
The Last of the Renshai by Micky Zucker Reichert
The Fionavar Tapestry by Guy Gavriel Kay
The Many Colored Land by Julian May (though perhaps it falls into Science Fiction since there is a time traveling component.
There are so many really. Yes I have the Grey Mouser books, Vance, Elric, Zelazny too, all great. Wheel of Time series was one where when its good, its really good, but unfortunately 50% of all the material could have been cut (at the risk of sounding misogynistic I point at most the female characters).
So hard to say what are in the “best fantasy of all time” but the list in the post contains some iffy ones. A series may have been influential which is to its credit but that doesn’t mean it was a great read.
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December 1, 2009, 5:14 pmjack burton says:
Thomas Convenant has to be the greatest whiner in the history of any type of fiction. He’s the kind of character where you eventually hope a giant meteor will crash down from space and land on his head just so he’d shut up.
Turning to women authors, Elizebeth Moon and her Sheepfarmer’s Daughter trilogy rates as five stars, and since it is my rating system I’ll even give her six stars. Her protagonist rides the roller coaster from low to high and back several times before the work is done.
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December 1, 2009, 5:16 pmtamerlane says:
How could at least one of Jack Vance’s many fine fantasy novels not have been included on this list. Both the Last Days of Earth and Eyes of the Overworld had a revolutionary and lasting impact on both fantasy and science fiction literature. Furthermore, Vance’s idiosyncratic style is far superior to that of any of the chosen authors. FWIW, I liked the Jonathan Strange novel very much. Not least because it includes an extensive description of faerie that is based very much on folklore scholarship. Most of the fantasy literature that I’ve read makes this kind of material up from the authors’ usually limited imaginations and it shows.
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December 1, 2009, 5:19 pmEvilDave says:
Harry Dresden didn’t make the list?
No respect.
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December 1, 2009, 5:27 pmAnthony says:
For more obscure stuff, I’ve always been fond of PC Hodgell’s God Stalk
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December 1, 2009, 5:33 pmCornellian says:
Julian May’s “The Many Colored Land” was terrific but I’m not sure it qualifies as fantasy. It’s in a sort of border land between SF and fantasy.
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December 1, 2009, 5:35 pmPersonFromPorlock says:
Here’s a second vote for Pratchett’s Discworld series.
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December 1, 2009, 5:38 pmjack burton says:
Baen Publishing, under the direction of their late founder Jim Baen, has for a number of years made much of their back catalog of science fiction/fantasy available as totally free downloads. His idea was that if you get hooked on an author that you don’t know and are not willing to spend $20.00 to find out about, he’ll eventually get his money’s worth from you. These are the very top authors and some of the best selling books available... not the bottom of the pile.
http://baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm
Some fantasy series that are well worth checking out...
Rick Cook, the Wizard’s series
Eric Flint & David Drake, the Belisarius series (okay, probably doesn’t belong here but it is so darned good I didn’t want you to miss it.)
David Weber, The Bahzell series:
And here are some other books, both science fiction or fantasy, that are my particular favorites. I can guarantee you hundreds of hours of true reading enjoyment and it’s all for free. I have astricked the ones I consider a “must read.”
Mercedes Lackey, Eric Flint and Dave Freer: The Shadow of the Lion*
Harry Turtledove: Wisdom of the Fox
1632 *
1633
1812: The Rivers of War
A Hymn Before Battle *
The Apocalypse Troll
Doc Sidhe
Excalibur Alternative
Fallen Angels *
Fortune’s Stroke
Forward the Mage
Freehold
Gust Front
Harald
The Honor of the Queen
Inherit the Stars
Lt. Leary Commanding *
A Logic Named Joe
March to the Sea
March Upcountry *
Mutineer’s Moon *
Old Nathan
On Basilisk Station *
Paying the Piper
The Philosophical Strangler
Pyramid Scheme
Rats, Bats and Vats
Retief!
Ring of Fire
The Road to Damascus
The Shadow of Saganami
The Shadow of the Lion
Sheepfarmer’s Daughter *
The Tank Lords
Telzey Amberdon
There Will Be Dragons
This Scepter’d Isle
Time Traders
The Far Side of the Stars
The Rats, the Bats and the Ugly
The Tyrant
The War God’s Own
The Warslayer
With the Lightnings
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December 1, 2009, 5:39 pmLarryA says:
I grew up with Tarzan the Ape Man and Conan the Barbarian. I’d say E.R. Burroughs and R.E. Howard were somewhat influential, as both characters are still popular today.
Then there’s The Jungle Book by Kipling and the Uncle Remus stories by J.C. Harris. Of course the last isn’t PC any more.
All before Lev’s time, of course. [sigh]
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December 1, 2009, 5:39 pmVader says:
I rather liked The Earthsea Trilogy.
And The Riddle-master of Hed, even though it somewhat oozes estrogen.
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December 1, 2009, 5:42 pmAnderson says:
Thomas Covenant has to be the greatest whiner in the history of any type of fiction. He’s the kind of character where you eventually hope a giant meteor will crash down from space and land on his head just so he’d shut up.
Oh good, so it wasn’t just me then.
Leaving aside, anything where a Ring has to be kept from a Dark Lord ... well, shit, I might as well be reading Sword of Shanarrah, or, “Fantasy for Those Who Don’t Know the ‘W’ in ‘Sword’ Is Silent.”
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December 1, 2009, 5:42 pmjack burton says:
free sample of God Stalk here...
http://www.webscription.net/chapters/1416555765/1416555765.htm?blurb
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December 1, 2009, 5:43 pmjack burton says:
Discworld almost belongs in a catagory of it’s own.
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December 1, 2009, 5:46 pmyankee says:
What’s the definition of “fantasy” here? Do magical realists like Borges and Márquez not count for some reason? Otherwise the omission is remarkable—One Hundred Years of Solitude is going to have a lot more staying power than some of the items on that list. Jonathan Strange was ok, but I don’t see it as a timeless classic.
Some people have mentioned Martin, but I don’t see it. Making your book many times longer than War and Peace to make it more “epic” is not a sign of greatness. Also Martin seems to be succumbing to Jordanitis, endlessly extending the series to sell more books.
I would also suggest The Hobbit, which is actually better than Lord of the Rings.
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December 1, 2009, 5:56 pmegd says:
Admittedly, Tolkien has to appear on any list. But I think that The Hobbit is a much better story, and told in far fewer words, than the entire LotR series.
There are other books which belong in the any good fantasy list, but are mysteriously absent.
The War of the Lance series (despite being pure unadulterated pulp fantasy) really set out the standard high fantasy realm that dominated so many future series.
Glen Cook’s Black Company is another excellent series, at least the first trilogy. After that the writing drops off, but by then you’re invested in the characters.
David Eddings’ Belgarian series is one that I try to reread every once in a while.
Dune, and to a lesser extent the rest of the series (although Dune may be more Sci Fi than Fantasy).
Raymond Feist’s Magician Apprentice and Magician Master were good, despite the disappointing and rehashing of later books.
And I would also have to second Terry Pratchett, although I think I’d pick Good Omens out of all of his works.
Really, the definition of what makes a “good” book depends wholly on the standard by which it is judged. Some books are great because they were groundbreaking in description and scope — LotR and C.S. Lewis’ books — but I don’t seem to have the desire to pick them up again. But I find myself rereading some series over and over, books that would never make it onto a “best fantasy” list, because they’re easy page turners and have interesting characters.
And like many, many other posts, this one has resulted in my Amazon list growing by leaps and bounds. At least this time it’s fiction.
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December 1, 2009, 5:56 pmmikeyes says:
I’ll make it a fourth vote for Terry Prachett. His latest novel is just as good as the rest (the first one is the just OK but still good. The rest are incredible in all senses of the word.)
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December 1, 2009, 5:56 pmyankee says:
Thanks to Vader for reminding me of Le Guin. I thought the rest of the trilogy was weak, but A Wizard of Earthsea definitely deserves consideration.
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December 1, 2009, 5:58 pmwlpeak says:
I rather liked the IPCC AR4, much better than CRU’s previous efforts.
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December 1, 2009, 6:11 pmDG says:
Its one thing to enjoy Jordan or similar “popcorn” fantasy, but its not the greatest by any means. Song of Fire and Ice is simply too uneven. Feist is fun.
Clarke is a genius and worth reading. She’s on the list because Grossman wants to grow up and be her, and to judge from The Magicians, he just might make it in another few books. Grossman’s obsession with Narnia is obvious to anyone who had read him — Fillory, anyone?
Cherryh is a great SF author, but not a great fantasy author. Downbelow Station, Cyteen, and Tripoint are not “fun” reading, but they do make your brain work very hard.
If someone is going to mention Julian May (which is fantasy/sci-fi), how about Heritage of Hastur? Sure, there are spaceships, but there are also demons. Atrocity Archives by Stross is also amazing.
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December 1, 2009, 6:14 pmSteve says:
I remember reading The Sword of Shannara when I was like 12 and going “holy crap, this is a 100% ripoff of LOTR.” For some reason, I know people who actually take Terry Brooks’ side on this and maintain that they loved the book/series and all fantasy books have common elements and so forth. I stand by my position.
Julian May’s Pliocene Exile books are like 99% science fiction in my opinion. They’re truly excellent.
One series I haven’t seen mentioned is Katherine Kurtz’s Deryni series. Maybe everyone hates it, and for all I know the series has dragged on too long, but at least some of the books are really excellent in my view.
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December 1, 2009, 6:15 pmHipposGoBeserk says:
This is all about taste.
Ice and Fire’s not on my list-too many mistakes. For Guy Kay I’d take Tigana over Fionovar. I think Wheel of Time’s amazingly plotted but weakly written. Vance doesn’t work for me.
Lists — meh.
HGB
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December 1, 2009, 6:21 pmYankev says:
I was thinking the same thing. (Also Jack of Shadows. I’d add Lord of Light but for its s/f underpinnings.) But except for Guns of Avalon, the sequels to 9 Princes don’t hold up as well as the Narnia series.
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December 1, 2009, 6:24 pmyankee says:
Also, as long as we are talking about “of all time,” what about Le Morte d’Arthur or The Faerie Queene? Or suggestions from the late 19th/early 20th centuries: Dracula, A Christmas Carol, The Picture of Dorian Gray, Alice in Wonderland, and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.
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December 1, 2009, 6:26 pmYankev says:
Kaor — don’t forget Princess of Mars and its sequels!
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December 1, 2009, 6:27 pmRyan Waxx says:
There are indeed fantasy novels that are in a sci-fi setting. A method you might find useful to distinguish them is how much of the central “science or fantasy?” themes are actually attempted to be explained in a plausible manner.
So: Dune Guildships folding spacetime to effect greater than lightspeed travel? Sci-fi. Guild navigators having to ingest a substance which causes them to magically become limited precogs in order to make the jump work? Fantasy.
And since the spice and its effects is one of the core themes of the series... it’s fantasy, no matter weather there are starships in it or not.
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December 1, 2009, 6:33 pmJoe Kowalski says:
I’ll mention some that other’s haven’t:
I loved the Green Knowe Chronicles by Lucy M. Boston. Not particularly heavy reading, but the writing is positively beautiful and enchanting.
Also, Pullman’s Dark Materials has some incredibly inventive fantasy elements (I could read a whole novel about the world Dr. Malone visited in the third book) which make for fun reading in spite of the awful plot and the horribly muddled and confused thematic elements.
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December 1, 2009, 6:36 pmzuch says:
Is there a time limit here? Do they have to be sufficiently old so as to allow proper reflection and evaluation? I mean, neither “A Charge to Keep” nor “Going Rogue” made the list....
Cheers,
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December 1, 2009, 6:37 pmpete says:
Thanks for bringing politics into an extremely pleasant thread that was completely devoid of it up until your post. You must be real fun at dinner parties.
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December 1, 2009, 6:44 pmEMB says:
I’m not sure whether this list is supposed to be “fantasy novels I most enjoyed personally” or if it’s supposed to be more “classic fantasy novels that changed the genre” or “fantasy novels that have great depth and literary value according to literary critics”...
In the last case, I don’t know or care much at all about the issue. I read fantasy novels for fun, and while it improves the experience if they provoke some amount of thought, I feel like good story-telling and plot, compelling characters, etc. are far more important.
In the second case, it may be too soon for it to be making the list of classics in the genre now, but I imagine Harry Potter will be on this list in the future, and may well end up being more influential than Narnia, etc.
The Wizard of Earthsea books (at least the first two) are certainly good and were I think my first exposure to the genre. By now they’d probably be considered classics.
There are also probably several fantasy novels that could be regarded as classics (and likely had a considerable influence on the genre) even though I personally didn’t like them. “The Once and Future King” comes to mind.
If we’re just recommending recent fantasy novels that we especially enjoyed, I think Bujold’s first two Chalion novels are probably the best fantasy I’ve read in a long time (don’t bother with the third).
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December 1, 2009, 6:59 pmjosh bornstein says:
1. Glad to see the Diskworld series mentioned by so many. (But, of course, in a series that large; it’s not surprising that there are some so-so books sprinkled in.)
2. Totally agree about ‘The Hobbit’ being a better and tighter read than LOTR
3. I am shocked (appalled, actually) that no one mentioned “The Princess Bride.” One of my favorite books of all time. (And one of the rare–IMO–times that a beloved book was turned into a good movie. The only explanation your oversight is that all of you instead put the book in History (joke) instead of Fantasy. Oh well; as you wish . . . .
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December 1, 2009, 7:14 pmCountDuckula says:
To be fair, it was inevitable, because I was about to bring up Mieville’s The Scar, which is perhaps his best (and least political) novel in the Bas-Lag world. The politics of the first book, Perdido Street Station, are obvious but mostly stay in the background (and aren’t that offensive anyway), but the final book, Iron Council, is a little overbearing.
And really, I don’t think you can talk about what makes good fantasy, particularly Tolkien, without considering Tolkien’s views on the purpose of fantasy: the modern world is terrible and escapism is good. Progress is bad. In “On Fairy-Stories” he presents an extremely reactionary view of politics and economics and flirts with the notion that more people should read fantasy in order to slow human progress.
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December 1, 2009, 7:19 pmJackOfClubs says:
Patricia McKillip’s Forgotten Beasts of Eld always gets left off these lists. It has both depth and mystique, two qualities that are often hard to reconcile in the same work.
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December 1, 2009, 7:23 pmRyan Waxx says:
There’s rather a difference between naming a fantasy book that attempts to ram politics down your throat, and naming a political book by one of your political enemies that you wish to slander by calling it fantasy.
You don’t see conservatives coming in here and nominating the IPCC report on global warming, do you?
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December 1, 2009, 7:24 pmBob White says:
Although I finished Jonathan Strange, it bored me greatly throughout and particularly the last 300 pages. One of the few books I regret finishing.
As others have commented, I found The Hobbit far superior to The Lord of the Rings. The former is a novel, the latter a travelogue and excuse for Tolkein to display the world he created. That the universe was well-constructed and has been ripped off by those who followed him does not make LotR an enjoyable novel.
The Fant/SF distinction also seems to me an arcane one, except for the general disdain for anything with a spaceship (which is thereby SF, regardless of what other characteristics it may have).
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December 1, 2009, 7:27 pmCrunchy Frog says:
Not all good fantasy is like that — both L.E. Modesitt’s Recluse series and Turtledove’s The World At War (the latter a recasting of WW2 in a fantasy environment) employ technological progress based upon the way magic (or paired order/chaos) works in the physical “universe” that they are set in.
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December 1, 2009, 7:29 pmBonze Saunders says:
jack burton
Oh, ditto. Re-reading the Chronicles recently was a painful experience for me.
However, the Ring of Whiner Supreme Thomas Covenant has been passed on in The Last Chronicles to Linden Avery, she who surpasses even Covenant in unrelenting whinitude. Lord Foul remains the least interesting and unmotivated villain in all of literature: he hates because, dammit, he’s Teh Despiser! And The Creator, the most impotent and incompetent of all GodHeads.
The Amber series is all good IMO, and I second Jack of Shadows as a truly awesome short novel. Creatures of Light and Darkness is also notable.
Empire of the East by Fred Saberhagen is a great... uh... book, call it what you will.
Finally, Greg Bear’s Songs of Earth and Power is very very good. Bear is known primarily for genius hard-SF (Queen of Angels and / a/k/a Slant are compelling, esp. the latter), but AFAIK he’s the only crossover Fantasy/SF writer besides Zelazny who is truly skilled at both.
Disclaimer: I’m mostly an SF fan, who wishes they’d move the Swords & Sorcery stuff into its own section so I could browse effectively. Tolkien was a genius, but I’m not so fond of his epigones.
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December 1, 2009, 7:29 pmAnthony says:
Speaking of politics and fantasy novels, the most common form of politics which gets rammed down your throat by fantasy (and a lot of SF) is pretty much medieval. They may not explicitly mention the Divine Right of Kings or Noblesse Oblige, but it’s often poorly hidden. Not sure what leads so much SF/Fantasy to be fascinated with autocracy (not that, say, L Neil Smith’s libertarian propaganda is much better; arguing for a social model by making everyone else incompetent is unconvincing regardless of the cause).
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December 1, 2009, 7:39 pmchiMaxx says:
I’m sorry, but I don’t know how anyone can create such a list and omit the evanescent “Little, Big” by John Crowley, in which Smoky Barnable moves in with the Drinkwaters of Edgewood and sees the cracks between human frailty and the actions of fairies, where the country Mouses and the city Mouses help keep the world turning, and where fairies seem to love humans in their own way, while failing to comprehend human joy, grief and pain. It is a family chronicle, a rumination on memory and family and loving people you do not fully understand.
I, too, was unimpressed by “Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell.” It was a slog to read: some beautiful moments and images were weighed down by limp, uninspired prose, and while the novel had a payoff, it was the payoff of a 300-page novel, while the actual book ran a bloated 800 pages that felt more like 1200.
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December 1, 2009, 7:43 pmchiMaxx says:
Anthony:
If you want a fantasy novel (of sorts) that is POLITICALLY sophisticated, then you want Samuel Delany’s “Tales of Neverÿon.” It is in many ways about the moment of cultural transition from kings and courts to more parliamentary forms of government (and the disruption such changes can have), about the transition from a barter to a money economy, about the transition from an oral– to a writing-based culture, and about sexual politics.
You may not agree with its politics–either its premises or its conclusions–but they are rich and complex and not at all hidden.
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December 1, 2009, 7:51 pmkeypusher64 says:
But I agree with your sentiment. This is a nice thread.
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December 1, 2009, 8:11 pmspostrel says:
Covenant isn’t whining–he’s the only character in the literature who says, “Come on, I’m in a f***ing fantasy world–this can’t possibly be real, even though it seems like it is. No way am I going to pretend that any of you are real.” And he holds onto that shred of sanity for as long as he can, even in the face of ultra-realistic people and landscape.
If any of you ever start seeing visions of yourself as magical saviors of an imperiled land, I hope you take Covenant’s view. Starting to hack with a sword at everything around you that seems evil is likely to land you in a house for the criminally insane.
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December 1, 2009, 8:12 pmRyan Waxx says:
And yet, the recluse series relentlessly portrayed any and all expansion of the magic technology as causing problems, since any increase in order necessitated an increase of chaos. If you tried to apply it to the real world, it’d be the worst kind of “simply being powerful is the cause of evil” tripe.
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December 1, 2009, 8:15 pmDotar Sojat says:
The Edgar Rice Burroughs Martian series. Now soon to be a major motion picture, and sure to be screwed up by the screenwriter and director.
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December 1, 2009, 8:18 pmarchetypex says:
Haven’t seen either of these mentioned yet, so I thought I’d toss them out and see what the reaction was:
The Last Unicorn, by Peter S. Beagle. A classic fantasy tale that takes the stock characters of the genre and tweaks them ever so gently. It also gets points in my book for having a adaptation (animated) that is extremely faithful to the source material.
Deerskin, by Robin McKinley. I’ve heard it said that this book is one for women readers only, due to its themes, but I found it to be very moving and emotional in tone.
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December 1, 2009, 8:18 pmpete says:
Bringing up the politics of a particular fantasy novel is on topic and would not bother me in the least assuming the comment is otherwise interesting. Inserting insulting political comments in a political thread would not bother me either since the readers are intentionally reading about politics.
Inserting off topic political insults into a thread about fantasy books is rude and shows the poster to be a bore and so obsessed with insulting their political opponents that they do not care if they annoy people who are otherwise having a good time reading a non-political thread.
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December 1, 2009, 8:20 pmAdam Maas says:
What’s really missing is David Gemmell. If he’d only written Legend he should be on the list for producing the best piece of Heroic Fantasy written since Robert E. Howard died. The fact he also went on to write several other classics along with re-imaginings of the Arthurian Legend, Alexander and the Trojan War simply cap it off.
I also agree on P.C. Hodgell, God Stalk is a brilliant bit of work (with a new novel due next year).
Jordan is incredibly derivative. Nicely plotted but merely stereotypical BFF and not well written. A Song of Ice and Fire is only original until you familiarize yourself with The War of the Roses, but even then it’s a much more competent take on fantasy than TWoT.
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December 1, 2009, 8:26 pmpete says:
Speaking of female fantasy writers I have enjoyed Lois McMaster Bujold’s Curse of Chalion, but have not read any other books in the series yet. I thought it was an interesting portrayal of the consequences of having gods who consistently and obviously interact with the mortal world in various ways.
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December 1, 2009, 8:29 pmtamerlane says:
Zuch is a kneebiter: A creature who obtains the attention it craves by being as annoying as is within its limited power. The best way of dealing with it is just to ignore it and skip over its droppings. It might make for a bit of comic relief as a villain’s hanger-on in a third-rate fantasy novel.
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December 1, 2009, 8:36 pmBlue says:
Wizard of Earthsea, for sure. An absolute gem of a small book...like Vance’s Eyes of the Overworld, for that matter.
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December 1, 2009, 8:40 pmConnie says:
xkcd’s take on fantasy:
http://xkcd.com/370/
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December 1, 2009, 8:43 pmRandy says:
Yankee: “Also, as long as we are talking about “of all time,” what about Le Morte d’Arthur or The Faerie Queene? Or suggestions from the late 19th/early 20th centuries: Dracula, A Christmas Carol, The Picture of Dorian Gray, Alice in Wonderland, and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz.”
Excellent suggestions, Yankee! It’s strange that Grossman believes that the best fantasy exists only in the 20th century. Since fantasy is rather loosely defined, one could also add Greek drama, as they often have elements of the magical, what with the gods coming in and out. Surely the Odyssey should belong with this list. One could also figure in several of Shakespeare’s plays, if drama is considered literature. (Although Shakespeare gets enough publicity and approprium as it is.)
What about Kafka?
Just about any good folk tale or children’s tale should belong on this list as well, including those of Hans Christian Anderson. Surely the three little pigs are as fantastical as anything written by Tolkien, and they benefit from brevity.
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December 1, 2009, 8:43 pmcelticdragon says:
Another vote here for A Wizard of Earthsea
What happened to Anne McCaffrey and the Dragon Riders of Pern??
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December 1, 2009, 8:47 pmJack Burton says:
It’s only a shred of sanity if he is actually imagining everything... otherwise it becomes a denial of reality with extra whining on the side.
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December 1, 2009, 8:58 pmJack Burton says:
NOw that is a series that went on about ten books too long.
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December 1, 2009, 8:59 pmyankee says:
Good point. This is supposed to be a list of novels, but the original proposal includes two sets of short stories, so I think we can include dramas as well. My pick would be A Midsummer Night’s Dream, which has always been my favorite of Shakespeare’s plays, but Macbeth and The Tempest should also be considered candidates.
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December 1, 2009, 9:02 pmBama 1L says:
I would love to have seen Gene Wolfe or Samuel R. Delaney on the list.
I liked Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. It was a quite original approach. I also liked it as a counterpoint to Tolkien. Tolkien claimed he wanted to create a new English mythology. I suppose he succeeded in creating a new mythology that influenced the English-speaking world, but it’s interesting that it now all seems so made up–so authored. You can’t really think about elves or goblins without Tolkien and his imitators coloring your imagination. Plus it’s just not a mythology set in England; it’s set in this very detailed other world that just isn’t ours.
Along comes Clarke, sticking close to some different strains of English mythology (fairies, changelings, etc.) and setting her story in a fantasy England that mirrors real England more closely, albeit with some amazing strangeness–the magical history of the North that no one can quite talk about. Strangely it’s more authentic than Tolkien’s alien high fantasy.
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December 1, 2009, 9:10 pmMark Field says:
If we’re going to include classic literature, The Golden Ass deserves a mention. So, for that matter, does The Aeneid.
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December 1, 2009, 9:19 pmjbarntt says:
Since Lev specified his list should include female authors, a contender would be C. L. Moore’s “Jirel of Joiry” short stories, (about 7 as I recollect).
Baum’s “The Wizard of Oz” is good, as are E. R. Eddington’s “The Worm Ouroboros”, the short stories of Lord Dunsany, and Wm. Morris’ “The Well at World’s End”.
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December 1, 2009, 9:34 pmJoe Triscari says:
Wild Seed by Octavia Butler
If you’ve never read it. Go to amazon, read the first few pages and then try not to read the rest.
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December 1, 2009, 9:41 pmCDU says:
I am a big fan of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. However, I can see why others might not like it so much. Susanna Clarke did something a bit different; for me it was different in a good way, but YMMV. Many other authors and books I enjoy have already been mentioned (George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire chief among them). Rather than repeat what others have already said, I’ll point out a rather glaring omission.
My top five fantasy novels would have to include something by Neil Gaiman on it, the question is what. Based on popular acclaim, American Gods is the obvious choice, but I don’t like it quite as well as some of his other work. Stardust and Neverwhere are my favorite books of his, though The Graveyard Book certainly gives them a run for their money. Of course, if we can venture away from novels a bit, Sandman is certainly his magnum opus.
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December 1, 2009, 9:44 pmDave says:
One problem here, and this is a reflection of fantasy as a whole, is that all of the entries are all basically “epic” in scope (note: I haven’t read Magic for Beginners, and
prefer to imagine that this list didn’t have the utterly banal but enjoyable Fafhrd and
the Grey Mouser stories on it). “Epic”, once you’ve gotten past Tolkien, gets boring
fast. It’s very difficult for good stories to be written on a tapestry as big as the
world. For solid non-epic fantasy, I recommend Steven Brust’s “Vlad Taltos” series.
Even if one is into the somewhat epic, Zelazny’s Amber belongs on this list, as does
Wolfe’s Shadow of the Torturer.
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December 1, 2009, 9:54 pmOperationCounterstrike says:
If yer gonna include CSLewis (and I’m not sure one should include him at all, because he’s so manipulative, and uses too many cheap rhetorical tricks), THE L, THE W, AND THE W is one of his worst. From within Narnia, THE SILVER CHAIR, THE MAGICIAN’S NEPHEW, THE HORSE AND HIS BOY, and THE LAST BATTLE are all very much better, and PERELANDRA beats all the Narnia books by a long margin.
If you’re allowing children’s books, as the CSL entry and the calls for THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ suggest, then there is absolutely no excuse for leaving out the ALICE books, and THE PHANTOM TOLLBOOTH, and the orignial PINOCCHIO, and FLATLAND. (FLATLAND is very close to my number-one, partly for its sheer brevity and economy of ideas, although it suffers from not having a love-interest, and a purist might point out that it’s a novella, not a novel.)
I’ll pass over Roald Dahl, because his books are not so much fantasies for kids as practical jokes on the parents. (To see what kind of a guy he was, read the four short stories first published in Playboy and compiled in the book BITCH. Hint: in one of them, a wealthy international womanizer gets tricked into having sex in total darkness–with a leper!)
Another unacceptable omission: THE CHILDREN’S COUNTRY by Kay Burdkin. Go find it. (Go on, try!)
And you can’t have a list like this without SOMETHING by E. Nesbit–THE FIVE CHILDREN AND IT is a good place to start (do NOT see the movie, which is an outrage), but the sequel, THE STORY OF THE AMULET may be even better.
Someone said something about including Shakespeare, even though those are not novels. OK, but if yer gonna include performed drama, how can you even CONSIDER leaving out DAS RHEINGOLD, and for that matter the other three chapters of THE GOBLIN’S RING??? And for sheer influence on subsequent generations, Gluck’s ORPHEUS ED EURYDICE.
And speaking of goblins, where is THE PRINCESS AND THE GOBLIN???
A final remark: I will track down, and shoot to death, anyone who even mentions A WRINKLE IN TIME. Madeline L’Engle is a strong candidate for most over-rated fantasy author of all time.
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December 1, 2009, 10:01 pmJack Burton says:
Andre Norton should be represented, not for any particular work, but for her entire body of work. She was tremendously influential on many levels.
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December 1, 2009, 10:02 pmOperationCounterstrike says:
Almost forgot, for children’s books (same age as ALICE or WIZARD OF OZ), there’s a book called BEYOND THE PAWPAW TREES by Palmer Brown which deserves at very least a strong honorable mention.
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December 1, 2009, 10:04 pmlibertariansoldier says:
I have loved Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser for decades.
I think counting a series as a work is appropriate, as LOTR is one.
Additional vote for:
9 Princes in Amber (which is better than its sequel)
Conan series
Belisarius series (as well as The General series)
Wheel of Time
And on the sci fi side:
Forever War
Starship Troopers
Leary series
Honor Harrington series
Dune
And a true classic, A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court
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December 1, 2009, 10:08 pmJack Burton says:
Any discussion of influential female fantasy authors must include Andre Norton, if not for any particular work then certainly for her whole body of writing. She wasnthe first woman to receive the Gandalf Grand Master Award from the World Science Fiction Society in 1977, and won the Damon Knight Memorial Grand Master Award from the SFWA in 1983.
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December 1, 2009, 10:08 pmKen Mitchell says:
The “Dragonriders of Pern” series are pure SF, as “revealed” by the last couple of books which detail the genetic engineering of the Dragons.
Interesting that nobody has mentioned any of the Deryni stories of Katherine Kurtz; a vaguely fictional Wales and Scotland populated by a race of humans who sometimes co-exist and sometimes war with a race of magicians. ENTIRELY fantasy.
The Narnia stories were good, but the LOTR is alone at the peak of the fantasy genre,
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December 1, 2009, 10:20 pmOperationCounterstrike says:
OK, another candidate for most over-rated fantasy-author of all time: Hugh Lofting, author of the DOCTOR DOOLITTLE series. Racist even for its time, minimally-imaginative, and very poorly thought through in all respects. Just one example: Polynesia the Parrot tells at length how she had to learn all the different languages of all the different animals, and how different they all were, and then, we get three-way and four-way conversations among animals of different species, all of whom are way too stupid to learn another language.
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December 1, 2009, 10:25 pmLaura(southernxyl) says:
Try Rider at the Gate although you may have to find it at the library.
Love those!
...If we are looking for women, we cannot overlook James Tiptree (Alice Sheldon). Go here for two end-of-the-world stories by her. The second one is grim and chilling, but the first is absolutely beautiful in its calm nihilism.
Finally, can’t believe no one has mentioned Tim Powers. The Drawing of the Dark is pretty terrif, and some of his others are good, but our favorite is The Stress of Her Regard. You will never look at the Romance poets again the same way. When my daughter found out that Shelley really did die in a sailboat accident on a calm day she was seriously disturbed.
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December 1, 2009, 10:36 pmKevin R says:
I feel compelled to point out that Tolkien maintained that LOTR was not a “novel”, but a heroic romance or something of the sort; an older form than the novel.
Terry Brooks appealed to me a lot as a teenager — yes, I knew Sword was a bad LOTR ripoff, but many of his other books were decent. Running With The Demon was a favorite of mine.
Let Martin finish ASOIAF, then maybe we can nominate it. I’m not confident it will ever be finished.
I just read #11 and the new #12 of Wheel of Time last week. (Lots of downtime at my father-in-law’s house...) WOT is definitely “epic” and detailed and lots of things. And I enjoyed reading it most of the time (never finished #10 though, which is why I let #11 wait around until now). Don’t know if it really belongs on a “greatest” list though.
I liked Voyage most of the Narnia books too, though I haven’t read them for 15 years.
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December 1, 2009, 10:37 pmLaura(southernxyl) says:
...Also, for pete’s sake, Beowulf.
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December 1, 2009, 10:37 pmRyan Waxx says:
I’ll second that as an interesting read and a refreshingly different viewpoint into the typically trite treatments of deities in fantasy... not so sure it would be considered one of the “greatest”... that series is far too much fun to be “great”.
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December 1, 2009, 11:11 pmTweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » The Six Greatest Fantasy Novels of All Time -- Topsy.com says:
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Bartholomew Heaven and Eugene Volokh, Eugene Volokh. Eugene Volokh said: The Six Greatest Fantasy Novels of All Time: Rising star fantasy writer Lev Grossman gives us his picks for the.. http://bit.ly/8zKt78 [...]
Sealionii says:
I am heartened to see that pretty much everything I would put forward has already been mentioned. Chalk me up in the “Fans of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell” column; I can see why one wouldn’t like it, but once I got accustomed to the sloooow pace of the beginning I enjoyed it very much indeed. I would do my best to get Gene Wolfe, Jack Vance, Roger Zelazny, and Steven Brust on the list somewhere...probably for The Wizard Knight, the Lyonesse trilogy, the first set of Amber books, and The Phoenix Guards, respectively, since those best meet the criteria of “high quality, distinctly fantastic as opposed to science fiction, and novels rather than short stories”.
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December 1, 2009, 11:31 pmGeorge MacDonald says:
What about me?
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December 1, 2009, 11:33 pmLinus says:
I really liked Jonathan Strange, but I’m also in love with that whole period of English history, so what do I know.
My favorite from the last few years is the Name of the Wind, by Patrick Rothfuss. I think it showed how you can do an “epic” story that is focused on people or a person and their relationships (something that, you have to admit, Tolkien did not care too much about), which keeps it compelling, rather than, as someone said, a travelogue.
I am reading Tigana right now, and loving it. It makes me wish I were independently wealthy so that I could sit and read all day, instead of going to my stupid job, to put stupid food on the stupid table.
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December 1, 2009, 11:39 pmStarman says:
I haven’t yet seen a mention of The Dark is Rising series by Susan Cooper. Kids books, yes, but....
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December 1, 2009, 11:45 pmbruce says:
Do adults actually enjoy the Narnia books or is it just a nostalgia thing for books they read in childhood?
I read Tolkien as a kid and enjoyed re-reading it as an adult (agree The Hobbit in stronger than LOTR).
I didn’t read Narnia as a kid, and when I tried to read it as an adult I couldn’t stomach it — it wasn’t the religious allegory, but the tone — especially the little aside comments to the reader (“Now children, you know that when someone does or says x...”). And it seemed geared to a MUCH younger audience than LOTR. The kids I see reading Narnia these days are in 2nd — 5th grade, never older. LOTR still appeals to middle and high schoolers.
I would replace Narnia with almost any of the above mentioned titles (Alice in Wonderland, Zelazny’s Amber, Herbert’s Dune, maybe Harry Potter).
Enjoyed Jonathan Strange, but it’s too new to call it a best of “all time”, as is Mieville.
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December 1, 2009, 11:46 pmDylan says:
More of you desperately need to read Hughart’s Bridge of Birds. It’s criminal that only one person has mentioned it.
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December 1, 2009, 11:47 pmBama 1L says:
I did not know until this very moment that Norton was a woman. Thanks!
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December 2, 2009, 12:15 amStamper says:
The Dark Tower by Stephen King. Not sure if it can truly be pegged as fantasy when it also contains elements of horror and the western. However, I think it is King’s best work and stayed fairly consistent throughout. Also has a pretty good ending that made sense within the context of the novel and wasn’t a normal fantasy ending.
I, too, think that the Narnia series is vastly overrated. Perhaps if I had read it as a youth, I might have been more enamored. The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander hits the same demographic, as well as being from the same era, and does a much better job.
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December 2, 2009, 12:18 amNickM says:
I was afraid there was going to be no support at all for Gaiman.
Two authors I love for fantasy but haven’t seen mentioned here: H.P. Lovecraft, and Stephen King (especially the Dark Tower series).
I’ll join in the chorus for Vance, Tolkien, and Poul Anderson as well.
I can’t really call any of Ray Bradbury’s great novels fantasy, though some of his short stories certainly qualify, but this wasn’t a short story list.
Nick
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December 2, 2009, 12:25 amSeanF says:
Gene Wolfe’s The Book of New Sun is deep enough into Clarke’s Law territory that it can be read as fantasy. His The Wizard Knight is pure fantasy of the highest order.
And a big +1 for LeGuin’s Earthsea trilogy. She gets more great fantasy into three slim books than 99% of writers achieve in multivolume epics. The Rule of Names gets my vote for best fantasy short story.
Mad props to my man Homer, for getting the show started.
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December 2, 2009, 1:03 amdew says:
Two authors I love for fantasy but haven’t seen mentioned here: H.P. Lovecraft, and Stephen King
Lovecraft and King are generally considered horror writers, not fantasy writers (although I suppose the difference is as much marketing as anything else). Of all the Lovecraft stories I can think of, maybe “The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath” is more of a fantasy story than a horror story, but it is also a short story/novella rather than a full novel, and I would not put it on a list of greatest fantasy novels anyway (although I love that story and Lovecraft in general).
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December 2, 2009, 1:34 amCornellian says:
I feel compelled to point out that Tolkien maintained that LOTR was not a “novel”, but a heroic romance or something of the sort; an older form than the novel.
I seem to recall him saying that his goal was to create a mythology for the British Isles and in that I think he was quite successful. Certainly the Silmarillion reads much more like mythology than a fantasy novel.
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December 2, 2009, 2:23 amdew says:
I’ll put in a vote for Guy Gavriel Kay, but not “Fionavar Tapestry”. It is good, but I think he bit off too much, especially trying to stuff in the Arthurian parts. Tigana would be my choice for a greatest fantasy novel by him (although he has some other very good novels).
I’ll also second/third/whatever LeGuin’s Earthsea trilogy. It is very good. A fourth book in the series (written much later) Tehanu was disappointing; it is too focused on scoring social/political points and she seems not as interested in just telling a good story vs. the first three. Some time after writing the first ones I think she decided that a great book has to be “about something” (and she does not think Tolkien’s books can be great for that reason — though maybe she has changed her mind). There is a 5th book which I have not bothered to read.
John Crowley’s Little Big and Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun are good picks, although I struggles a bit with the New Sun books; he has other books that are easier to read.
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December 2, 2009, 2:23 amCornellian says:
I think Jonathan Strange was a very good novel that would have been even better had a good editor cut out about a quarter of it. The Italian trip at the end was totally superfluous and I can’t help but wonder whether it was a subtle nod to a similar pointless excursion in Vanity Fair (the Thackeray novel, not the magazine).
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December 2, 2009, 2:24 amCornellian says:
Even if one is into the somewhat epic, Zelazny’s Amber belongs on this list, as does
Wolfe’s Shadow of the Torturer.
The amazing thing (one of many) about Wolfe’s Book of the Long Sun series is that the plot involves a society living inside a giant interstellar spacecraft. They’ve been there for generations and have largely forgotten the technology that controls it. That sounds like a total cliche in and in the hands of a hack writer the protagonist would discover his world is really a space ship, the gods are actually computer programs and, having described this startling revelation, the book would end. But Wolfe is brilliant and in his hands there’s nothing cliched about the plot. You soon discover the people on the ship are perfectly well aware that they’re board a space ship, they know the gods are actually computer programs, and those are simply two facts about their society. The plot is something entirely different.
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December 2, 2009, 2:39 amCountDuckula says:
If by “consistent throughout” you mean the decline in quality was consistent from the intriguing first book to the absolutely miserable, hackneyed final book, then it was. I threw the last book out the window when I finished it.
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December 2, 2009, 6:45 amIlec says:
Wow — 123 comments into this thread and no one has mentioned Steven Erikson’s Malazan Book of the Fallen series? I have thoroughly enjoyed every book in that series even if the plot is intricate enough that seven books in I am still trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
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December 2, 2009, 7:14 amJonathan H. Adler says:
I’m with those who recommend the Thomas Covenant series. While I don’t read much fantasy at all any more, I think they’re quite good (and I like the new novels as well).
JHA
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December 2, 2009, 8:04 amNickp says:
I’m late to the party, so I’ll just list a few favorites that haven’t been mentioned yet:
1. For my money, A Song for Arbonne is the best of Guy Gavriel Kay’s.
2. Garth Nix’s Abhorsen trilogy, particularly the first book, Sabriel. The early scene in which a Mordicant hunts Sabriel is, by itself worth the price of the book. Very intense.
3. Jack Vance’s Lyonesse trilogy. Has some of the same flavor as the Dying Earth novels, but is medieval rather than far future.
FWIW, various followups: I thoroughly enjoyed Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, my favorite earthsea book has always been The Tombs of Atuan, and I just started reading The Stress of Her Regard. Oh, and best Narnia book = The Horse and his Boy
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December 2, 2009, 9:02 amyankee says:
Not really; LOTR is one book that was split into multiple volumes by the publisher for sales/marketing purposes. One of LOTR’s most lamentable influences on fantasy is a direct result of this decision: the idea that a good story needs to be in the form of a multivolume “series” at least as long as War and Peace.
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December 2, 2009, 9:43 amSteve says:
Sheri S Tepper– “Grass” and the “Family Tree”
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December 2, 2009, 10:00 amJonathan says:
One book not often mentioned (or read) is E.R. Eddison’s “The Worm Ouroboros.” Tolkien is said to have commented that Eddison was “The greatest and most convincing writer of ‘fantasy worlds’ I have ever read.”
Quote taken from here — http://books.google.com/books?id=bf1UWZqhH_8C&pg=PT7&dq=er+eddison#v=onepage&q=er%20eddison&f=false
At this point, I cannot afford the toner to print the darn thing out, but I will find a used copy soon....
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December 2, 2009, 10:00 amStamper says:
I’ve made it through the first two books and am still trying to understand how the magical system works. Sometimes I think the world is just too complex in the series.
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December 2, 2009, 10:12 amvepxistqaosani says:
I second the Crowley — Little, Big is tremendous. And Harold Bloom likes it!
I also love Winter’s Tale by Mark Helprin, which must be the best urban fantasy written to date.
Can we have a ‘most overrrated’ thread? I’d like to start with Jordan and Goodkind and Brooks and Donaldson. Apparently, it’s a really, really bad idea to pay fantasy writers by the word.
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December 2, 2009, 10:21 amvepxistqaosani says:
And how can I have forgotten Peter Beagle’s The Last Unicorn or Joy Chant’s Red Moon and Black Mountain?
Turns out there’s a lot I’d gladly swap for Clarke’s book, which I, too, found interminable and uninteresting.
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December 2, 2009, 10:25 amegd says:
And speaking of goblins, although I don’t think it counts as a “great” fantasy work, it’s certainly fun, Goblin Quest (and not a lot of people have heard of it).
Piers Anthony probably deserves a mention, On a Pale Horse was great, even if the series declined significantly after that. If nothing else, it was an interesting concept.
I don’t see how H.P. Lovecraft makes it in under any definition of “great,” unless that definition includes “overhyped emo crap.” The Music of Erich Zann is the only story of Lovecraft’s that is even remotely scary. The rest suffers from overwriting and is far too descriptive to be “horror,” and should really be classified as bad SciFi/Fantasy.
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December 2, 2009, 10:36 amIlec says:
Heh — I am seven books in and I still don’t understand the magical system. The world is very complex — probably a side effect of Erikson being an archaeologistby training. I think I also read a comment by him in an interview that he deliberately wrote the books so that you would always feel like you were coming in in the middle of the story without the benefit of background and exposition and needing to figure things out for yourself.
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December 2, 2009, 10:53 amJack Burton says:
It was the best kept semi-secret in publishing in the 50s/60s. Didn’t want all of us adolescent boys knowing that our favorite author was really a giiiirl.
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December 2, 2009, 11:01 amGuest101 says:
I’m not a huge Gaiman fan, but I would say his best work by far is actually his short story collection Smoke and Mirrors, followed by Good Omens (with Pratchett).
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December 2, 2009, 11:15 ampete says:
I only read the first 2 narnia books as a kid and did not like them that much, but I decided to read the series against a couple of years ago and liked it more this time and appreciated the asides and the humor more than anything else in the books. The fantasy world of Narnia itself is not that interesting or creative.
The audiobooks of Narnia with various British actors like Patrick Stewart and Kenneth Branagh as the readers are well done and I listened to a few of the later books instead of reading them.
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December 2, 2009, 11:51 amjosh says:
I’m late to the thread, but let me note that George R.R. Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire is being made into a series (or a pilot for a series is being made, at least) for HBO. D.B. Weiss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Weiss), who wrote a script for Halo to be made for Peter Jackson and David Benioff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Benioff), who wrote 25th Hour, Troy, X-Men and others are executive producing. Should be interesting.
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December 2, 2009, 11:58 amjosh says:
See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones_%28TV_series%29
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December 2, 2009, 12:01 pmTexas Lawyer in DFW says:
I knew that Norton was Mary Alice North when I was in seventh grade in the 1960s and just starting to read her books. Everyone did then, but seems to have forgotten.
McKillip is still a joy to read. I’m surprised DeLint did not get any comments, glad to see deCamp got some.
Martin drove me crazy with his lack of a good handle on scale. I’d have loved the books if I had not been sensitive to that. Moon on the other hand, is very sensitive to it. She plans to write fantasy again when her adopted autisitic son is able to live away from home, she finds herself unable to handle the harder demands of fantasy (over sf) while helping him.
Cherryh’s list is an excellent one, deserves more than just the one comment. (Her original name was Cherry, the “h” was added by an editor/agent).
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December 2, 2009, 12:12 pmRon Stack says:
I enjoyed Jonathan Strange, and I thought the conceit of footnotes was brilliant. I agree that the book was out of control editorially, however. I’m actually looking forward to the film (announced for 2010 with Julian Fellowes as screenwriter), because the cuts to make the screenplay manageable will be substantial. I can’t imagine that the director will lose the Italian trip, though.
Also agree with the comments above that The Hobbit was far superior as a novel to LOTR.
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December 2, 2009, 12:36 pmEdward O'Connor says:
I’d add Lud-in-the-Mist by Hope Mirrlees. Susanna Clarke in particular was clearly inspired by it. I reviewed it on my blog a few years ago.
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December 2, 2009, 1:38 pmBrett says:
My main problem with that one is that while the main character is done pretty well (and since he’s the narrator, you get a strong “unreliable narrator” impression), the supporting characters are rather flat and weakly developed.
I’ll second A Wizard of Earthsea (how did I forget that one?). Pern and Dune are more sci-fi-ish (although both have elements that are more or less magical).
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December 2, 2009, 1:41 pmYankev says:
Yes, the Hitchiker’s Guide Triology faded somewhere after the fourth book.
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December 2, 2009, 2:26 pmyankee says:
Jack Burton: It was the best kept semi-secret in publishing in the 50s/60s. Didn’t want all of us adolescent boys knowing that our favorite author was really a giiiirl.
The same thing was going on with “J.K.” Rowling. The publisher thought calling the author “Joanne” would reduce sales, and I see no reason to doubt their judgment on this point.
On a similar point, the protagonist of A Wizard of Earthsea is black, but the covers of the various editions go to great lengths to avoid showing this. They portray the protagonist wearing some kind of enormous robe, or not at all, or actually make him white. I’ve found only one edition (the 1968 hardcover) that clearly portrays a black man.
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December 2, 2009, 3:03 pmRich Rostrom says:
1) Many posters can’t tell the difference between fantasy and science fiction.
2) Ghost stories, monster stories, and fairy stories are generally outside the range of fantasy. Otherwise, one would have to include Dracula and Frankenstein.
3) What, no one mentions James Branch Cabell?
4) Nor Alan Gardner!
My short list
J. R. R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
Ursula LeGuin, A Wizard of Earthsea
James Branch Cabell, Jurgen
Alan Gardner, The Weirdstone of Brisingamen
Robert Heinlein, Magic, Inc.
Avram Davidson, The Phoenix and the Mirror
Howard, Norton, Leiber, and Dunsany are all major writers, but none produced an individually great novel.
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December 2, 2009, 3:11 pmJoan says:
In the Arthurian vein, I loved The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley.
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December 2, 2009, 3:19 pmyankee says:
But why shouldn’t they be included? Are they insufficiently fantastical? This is supposed to be a list of the best fantasy novels “of all time,” not “since Tolkien.”
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December 2, 2009, 4:16 pmpete says:
I like Orson Scott Card’s explantion of the differnce “fantasy has trees, and science fiction has rivets”
The general difference is that scifi tries to explain why fantastic things happen and how they work and tries to stay within the bounds of science, even if it uses some far out speculation or improbable science. Frankenstein was animated by science not magic.
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December 2, 2009, 4:49 pmCornellian says:
I enjoyed Jonathan Strange, and I thought the conceit of footnotes was brilliant. I agree that the book was out of control editorially, however. I’m actually looking forward to the film (announced for 2010 with Julian Fellowes as screenwriter)
That is great news. Julian Fellowes is very good and certainly knows the British mindset that drives that novel.
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December 3, 2009, 2:24 amIlec says:
On a more mundane level, I would exclude them because I am tired of Twlight and Twilight knock offs taking up shelf space in the Fantasy/SciFi section of my local book store.
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December 3, 2009, 7:23 amBob Montgomery says:
I’ll stand up for Harry Potter. My list:
The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
The Lord of the Rings
Harry Potter and the Sorceror’s Stone / Deathly Hallows
The Eye of the World
Thud!
The Kestrel
And yes, I’m an adult and I still read the Narnia books. Just reread them in the last 6 months (in spurts, and out of order). I liked the Voyage of the Dawn Treader best when I was a kid, but TLTWATW is best. That Hideous Strength is the best of all of Lewis’ novels, but I wouldn’t call it fantasy...though it is perhaps the closest of the Space Trilogy.
LOTR is better than The Hobbit. The Hobbit is very good.
I can’t decide if the first or the last Harry Potter is the best, or one of the others.
I think The Eye of the World is stunningly awesome, I’ve reread it many times. IMO the series goes downhill (slowly) from there; I haven’t read all of them.
The Discworld series certainly merits a spot; Thud! is best. I think Sam Vimes is perhaps the best fictional character I’ve ever read.
Is The Kestrel fantasy? I think so. And it is brilliant.
Others...
Just read The Princess and the Goblin and, while a good book, isn’t in a class with the best. I’ve reread Terry Brooks’ books since I’ve grown up and they have NOT held up. The writing is awful. And I thought they were so great when I was a kid...
I just reread Alice’s Adventure in Wonderland a week ago and, great as it is, it doesn’t really seem like fantasy to me. The Belgeriad series also could be mentioned. Also, Wizard’s First Rule was very good, though I haven’t read the rest of those and it isn’t as good as the others listed above.
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December 3, 2009, 3:12 pmmarkm says:
Huh? Norton’s stories were so obviously written with a feminine touch that it never even occurred to me that Andre might be a man’s name. Now, it took several C.J. Cherryh books before I began to suspect that there was an exceptionally bloody-minded woman behind the initials...
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January 1, 2010, 11:23 am