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	<title>Comments on: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law</title>
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		<title>By: uberVU - social comments</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-714920</link>
		<dc:creator>uberVU - social comments</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 10:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-714920</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Social comments and analytics for this post...&lt;/strong&gt;

This post was mentioned on Twitter by VolokhC: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law: I recently renewed my m.. http://bit.ly/6Azv88...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Social comments and analytics for this post&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>This post was mentioned on Twitter by VolokhC: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law: I recently renewed my m.. <a href="http://bit.ly/6Azv88.." rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/6Azv88..</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Federalist Society pro bono center</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-714322</link>
		<dc:creator>Federalist Society pro bono center</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Dec 2009 16:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-714322</guid>
		<description>[...] It&#8217;s a little-heralded gem, as I can confirm from personal experience [Somin, Volokh] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It&#8217;s a little-heralded gem, as I can confirm from personal experience [Somin, Volokh] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Volokh Conspiracy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Harvard Law School Guide to Conservative/Libertarian Public Interest Law</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705802</link>
		<dc:creator>The Volokh Conspiracy &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Harvard Law School Guide to Conservative/Libertarian Public Interest Law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 20:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705802</guid>
		<description>[...] response to my recent post on conservative and libertarian public interest law, various law students and others have e-mailed me to ask whether there is a single comprehensive [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] response to my recent post on conservative and libertarian public interest law, various law students and others have e-mailed me to ask whether there is a single comprehensive [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clayton Wood</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705628</link>
		<dc:creator>Clayton Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 06:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705628</guid>
		<description>The American Center for Law and Justice is a firm that won the only unanimous opinion in overturning a portion of McCain Feingold.  They are active in a variety of follow up litigation exactly as you described.  While they are not libertarian by any stretch, when you speak of a paucity of attorneys in this area, you may want to mention one in particular who has been to the Supreme Court over a dozen times and who is playing for the right team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The American Center for Law and Justice is a firm that won the only unanimous opinion in overturning a portion of McCain Feingold.  They are active in a variety of follow up litigation exactly as you described.  While they are not libertarian by any stretch, when you speak of a paucity of attorneys in this area, you may want to mention one in particular who has been to the Supreme Court over a dozen times and who is playing for the right team.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Fast</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705521</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Fast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705521</guid>
		<description>Well, this post has got me excited.  Sign me up!  As a hardcore  older 3L libertarian (with conservative values) and professional enthusiast, I would be incredibly excited to work on &quot;unglamorous but essential follow-up cases&quot;.  I can&#039;t think of anything that would give me more pleasure than to enforce someone&#039;s economic rights against some liberal/big government intrusion that is contrary to already established precedent.  (Licking my chops!)  I will initially, of course, need the guidance of more experienced and knowledgeable attorneys, but I will stand ready to do the grunt work and put in the dirt time and learn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, this post has got me excited.  Sign me up!  As a hardcore  older 3L libertarian (with conservative values) and professional enthusiast, I would be incredibly excited to work on &#8220;unglamorous but essential follow-up cases&#8221;.  I can&#8217;t think of anything that would give me more pleasure than to enforce someone&#8217;s economic rights against some liberal/big government intrusion that is contrary to already established precedent.  (Licking my chops!)  I will initially, of course, need the guidance of more experienced and knowledgeable attorneys, but I will stand ready to do the grunt work and put in the dirt time and learn.</p>
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		<title>By: Malvolio</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705520</link>
		<dc:creator>Malvolio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705520</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-705367&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-705367&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;David Nieporent&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;:   &lt;blockquote&gt;  But — Wouldn’t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Assuming for the sake of argument that this question is serious rather than snark — I’m feeling generous — no. Not even close. Why would she? Rand is not some left-wing caricature of someone obsessed over accumulating money.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think the underlying question is legitimate: why isn&#039;t public-interest law profitable?

Arbitrary Aardvark believes it can be, despite his own experience to the contrary.  Maybe, but assume &lt;em&gt;arguendo&lt;/em&gt; that it isn&#039;t.

The answer, I believe, is that the law is a commons.  Even had Angel Raich or Susette Kelo won her respective case, she would barely be compensated for her own trouble, let alone her lawyers&#039; -- but the rest of us would (collectively) be hugely better off.

(I wanted to cite some &lt;em&gt;winners&lt;/em&gt; of libertarian Supreme Court cases.  The most recent I could think of were Alfonso Lopez and Antonio Morrison: a gang-banger and a rapist, and 15-year-old cases at that, not the best examples.  Sigh.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-705367">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-705367" rel="nofollow">David Nieporent</a></strong>:<br />
<blockquote>  But — Wouldn’t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone?</p></blockquote>
<p>Assuming for the sake of argument that this question is serious rather than snark — I’m feeling generous — no. Not even close. Why would she? Rand is not some left-wing caricature of someone obsessed over accumulating money.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I think the underlying question is legitimate: why isn&#8217;t public-interest law profitable?</p>
<p>Arbitrary Aardvark believes it can be, despite his own experience to the contrary.  Maybe, but assume <em>arguendo</em> that it isn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>The answer, I believe, is that the law is a commons.  Even had Angel Raich or Susette Kelo won her respective case, she would barely be compensated for her own trouble, let alone her lawyers&#8217; &#8212; but the rest of us would (collectively) be hugely better off.</p>
<p>(I wanted to cite some <em>winners</em> of libertarian Supreme Court cases.  The most recent I could think of were Alfonso Lopez and Antonio Morrison: a gang-banger and a rapist, and 15-year-old cases at that, not the best examples.  Sigh.)</p>
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		<title>By: Instapundit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ILYA SOMIN: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law&#8230;.</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705475</link>
		<dc:creator>Instapundit &#187; Blog Archive &#187; ILYA SOMIN: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law&#8230;.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705475</guid>
		<description>[...] SOMIN: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law. &#8220;Left-liberal scholars and activists have long understood this crucial lesson, and they have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] SOMIN: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law. &#8220;Left-liberal scholars and activists have long understood this crucial lesson, and they have [...]</p>
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		<title>By: To Have and Have Not</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705468</link>
		<dc:creator>To Have and Have Not</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705468</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I get the impression that even the more “white-shoe” firms would rather their associates work on pro bono matters with a higher PR pay-off (help for the homeless, SS disabilities claims, etc.) than just promoting free-market principles and property rights through litigation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think you&#039;ve nailed it here.  Many law firms couldn&#039;t care less about the individuals, or even the principles, involved.  They simply want to have the &quot;feel-good&quot; stuff to tout to the public on their websites and to idealistic law students in their recruiting brochures/sites.  
If it were that important, why wouldn&#039;t the corner-office partners spend hundreds of hours a year on it rather than dump it on the lowest ranking associates (and then expect those associates to bill 2500 hours a year on top of it)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I get the impression that even the more “white-shoe” firms would rather their associates work on pro bono matters with a higher PR pay-off (help for the homeless, SS disabilities claims, etc.) than just promoting free-market principles and property rights through litigation.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve nailed it here.  Many law firms couldn&#8217;t care less about the individuals, or even the principles, involved.  They simply want to have the &#8220;feel-good&#8221; stuff to tout to the public on their websites and to idealistic law students in their recruiting brochures/sites.<br />
If it were that important, why wouldn&#8217;t the corner-office partners spend hundreds of hours a year on it rather than dump it on the lowest ranking associates (and then expect those associates to bill 2500 hours a year on top of it)?</p>
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		<title>By: arbitraryaardvark</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705462</link>
		<dc:creator>arbitraryaardvark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 22:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705462</guid>
		<description>@ hadur: &quot;That you have lost your cases? Or that you have not turned a profit on being a libertarian public interest lawyer?&quot; yeah, some of both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ hadur: &#8220;That you have lost your cases? Or that you have not turned a profit on being a libertarian public interest lawyer?&#8221; yeah, some of both.</p>
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		<title>By: David Nieporent</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705367</link>
		<dc:creator>David Nieporent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705367</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But — Wouldn’t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Assuming for the sake of argument that this question is serious rather than snark -- I&#039;m feeling generous -- no.  Not even close.  Why would she?  Rand is not some left-wing caricature of someone obsessed over accumulating money.&lt;blockquote&gt;If you spent the time earning money rather than donating your time, aren’t you helping society much better than giving away your expertise for free?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Why would Rand care about &quot;helping society&quot;?&lt;blockquote&gt;If people can’t pay for representation themselves, isn’t that their problem? &lt;/blockquote&gt;It is, to Rand, if the question is whether they&#039;re somehow &lt;i&gt;entitled&lt;/i&gt; to your assistance.  It&#039;s not, if the question is whether you want to represent them.

Rand did not oppose charity.  What Rand opposed was the notion that need was its own justification for charity, or worse, that need created an obligation on the part of others to provide charity.  That people should feel guilty if they didn&#039;t provide charity.

Moreover, the pro bono work that&#039;s being discussed isn&#039;t merely about helping an individual plaintiff, but about shaping the laws in a more liberty-oriented way.  Rand certainly would have endorsed that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But — Wouldn’t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone?</p></blockquote>
<p>Assuming for the sake of argument that this question is serious rather than snark &#8212; I&#8217;m feeling generous &#8212; no.  Not even close.  Why would she?  Rand is not some left-wing caricature of someone obsessed over accumulating money.<br />
<blockquote>If you spent the time earning money rather than donating your time, aren’t you helping society much better than giving away your expertise for free?</p></blockquote>
<p>Why would Rand care about &#8220;helping society&#8221;?<br />
<blockquote>If people can’t pay for representation themselves, isn’t that their problem? </p></blockquote>
<p>It is, to Rand, if the question is whether they&#8217;re somehow <i>entitled</i> to your assistance.  It&#8217;s not, if the question is whether you want to represent them.</p>
<p>Rand did not oppose charity.  What Rand opposed was the notion that need was its own justification for charity, or worse, that need created an obligation on the part of others to provide charity.  That people should feel guilty if they didn&#8217;t provide charity.</p>
<p>Moreover, the pro bono work that&#8217;s being discussed isn&#8217;t merely about helping an individual plaintiff, but about shaping the laws in a more liberty-oriented way.  Rand certainly would have endorsed that.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705355</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705355</guid>
		<description>Thanks Illya!  My questions were genuine, even though I don&#039;t subscribe to them.  Myself, I spend waaaaay too much time on pro bono stuff, and I really need to cut back .  But I just wanted to see how a libertarian philosophy squares with pro bono work.  I&#039;m not really a big fan of Rand, but many people are, and I wanted to see if they would come to her defense by denouncing pro bono anything.  Or at least tell me that I am reading her wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Illya!  My questions were genuine, even though I don&#8217;t subscribe to them.  Myself, I spend waaaaay too much time on pro bono stuff, and I really need to cut back .  But I just wanted to see how a libertarian philosophy squares with pro bono work.  I&#8217;m not really a big fan of Rand, but many people are, and I wanted to see if they would come to her defense by denouncing pro bono anything.  Or at least tell me that I am reading her wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: 1Ler</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705251</link>
		<dc:creator>1Ler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705251</guid>
		<description>Although Prof. Somin makes it sound so cut-and-dry, I suspect the need for pro bono volunteers for libertarian-conservative interest groups is heavily influenced by both the ideology and self-interests of many bigger law firms.  I get the impression that even the more &quot;white-shoe&quot; firms would rather their associates work on pro bono matters with a higher PR pay-off (help for the homeless, SS disabilities claims, etc.) than just promoting free-market principles and property rights through litigation.

Unlike some posters, I&#039;m open to the possibility of being entirely wrong...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although Prof. Somin makes it sound so cut-and-dry, I suspect the need for pro bono volunteers for libertarian-conservative interest groups is heavily influenced by both the ideology and self-interests of many bigger law firms.  I get the impression that even the more &#8220;white-shoe&#8221; firms would rather their associates work on pro bono matters with a higher PR pay-off (help for the homeless, SS disabilities claims, etc.) than just promoting free-market principles and property rights through litigation.</p>
<p>Unlike some posters, I&#8217;m open to the possibility of being entirely wrong&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: PersonFromPorlock</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705247</link>
		<dc:creator>PersonFromPorlock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 13:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705247</guid>
		<description>Libertarians ought to consider going for criminal rather than civil actions, too, at least in egregious cases. My big criticism of FIRE is that they always go for a negotiated settlement, or, failing that, a civil suit. This means that if Dean Smith is forced to back away from some infringement of a student&#039;s civil rights, Dean Jones at the next college over may still feel that he can infringe in the same way because it&#039;s unlikely &lt;em&gt;his&lt;/em&gt; student will sue. And even Dean Smith won&#039;t be all that discouraged from trying again.

But put Dean Smith in prison using civil rights criminal law - or even make a good try at it - and Dean Jones will be much cautioned. Of course, this involves enlisting prosecutors against the Establishment, not an easy thing to do, but the effort would certainly be worthwhile, and not merely for the sort of cases brought by FIRE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarians ought to consider going for criminal rather than civil actions, too, at least in egregious cases. My big criticism of FIRE is that they always go for a negotiated settlement, or, failing that, a civil suit. This means that if Dean Smith is forced to back away from some infringement of a student&#8217;s civil rights, Dean Jones at the next college over may still feel that he can infringe in the same way because it&#8217;s unlikely <em>his</em> student will sue. And even Dean Smith won&#8217;t be all that discouraged from trying again.</p>
<p>But put Dean Smith in prison using civil rights criminal law &#8211; or even make a good try at it &#8211; and Dean Jones will be much cautioned. Of course, this involves enlisting prosecutors against the Establishment, not an easy thing to do, but the effort would certainly be worthwhile, and not merely for the sort of cases brought by FIRE.</p>
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		<title>By: Tweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law -- Topsy.com</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705166</link>
		<dc:creator>Tweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law -- Topsy.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 06:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705166</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Gregory Gelfond, Eugene Volokh. Eugene Volokh said: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law: I recently renewed my m.. http://bit.ly/6Azv88 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Gregory Gelfond, Eugene Volokh. Eugene Volokh said: Addressing the Most Important Weakness of Conservative-Libertarian Public Interest Law: I recently renewed my m.. <a href="http://bit.ly/6Azv88" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/6Azv88</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ilya Somin</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705118</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilya Somin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705118</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Wouldn’t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone? &lt;/em&gt;

I doubt it. She did not object to people donating their time to promote their ideology (she did it herself in several political campaigns). But even if she would, so what? I&#039;m not a Randian, and neither are most other libertarian and conservative lawyers.

&lt;em&gt;If you spent the time earning money rather than donating your time, aren’t you helping society much better than giving away your expertise for free?
&lt;/em&gt;

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If donating your expertise for free helps combat a large-scale injustice like eminent domain abuse or infringements on economic liberties, it could benefit society much more than spending the equivalent amount of time on a paying case.


&lt;em&gt;If people can’t pay for representation themselves, isn’t that their problem? &lt;/em&gt;

Perhaps it is if their case affects only their own interests. But if it involves broader legal principles that are important to many other people, then the situation is different.

&lt;em&gt;Would you really want a lawyer who’se never been in a court room representing you? And he or she is treating this as a ‘learning experience.?’&lt;/em&gt;

If he were better than any lawyer I could afford to hire for pay, absolutely I&#039;d want to have him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Wouldn’t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone? </em></p>
<p>I doubt it. She did not object to people donating their time to promote their ideology (she did it herself in several political campaigns). But even if she would, so what? I&#8217;m not a Randian, and neither are most other libertarian and conservative lawyers.</p>
<p><em>If you spent the time earning money rather than donating your time, aren’t you helping society much better than giving away your expertise for free?<br />
</em></p>
<p>Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If donating your expertise for free helps combat a large-scale injustice like eminent domain abuse or infringements on economic liberties, it could benefit society much more than spending the equivalent amount of time on a paying case.</p>
<p><em>If people can’t pay for representation themselves, isn’t that their problem? </em></p>
<p>Perhaps it is if their case affects only their own interests. But if it involves broader legal principles that are important to many other people, then the situation is different.</p>
<p><em>Would you really want a lawyer who’se never been in a court room representing you? And he or she is treating this as a ‘learning experience.?’</em></p>
<p>If he were better than any lawyer I could afford to hire for pay, absolutely I&#8217;d want to have him.</p>
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		<title>By: U.Va. Grad</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705117</link>
		<dc:creator>U.Va. Grad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 04:03:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705117</guid>
		<description>Ayn Rand was a libertarian?  News to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ayn Rand was a libertarian?  News to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Sebastian the Ibis</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705082</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian the Ibis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 03:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705082</guid>
		<description>I usually spend at least an extra  couple hours a week working on client matters, and not billing for them to avoid a result I don&#039;t like.   I&#039;m sure every client has paying clients with legal issues beyond their ability to pay. I have learned an incredible amount going the extra mile to cover every base, often the research is completely superfluous, other times you figure out a new technique to win something huge in either that case or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually spend at least an extra  couple hours a week working on client matters, and not billing for them to avoid a result I don&#8217;t like.   I&#8217;m sure every client has paying clients with legal issues beyond their ability to pay. I have learned an incredible amount going the extra mile to cover every base, often the research is completely superfluous, other times you figure out a new technique to win something huge in either that case or another.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705080</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 03:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705080</guid>
		<description>But -- Wouldn&#039;t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone?  

If you spent the time earning money rather than donating your time, aren&#039;t you helping society much better than giving away your expertise for free?

If people can&#039;t pay for representation themselves, isn&#039;t that their problem?  

&quot; At many firms, partners are happy to have associates take on such work even if they don’t necessarily agree with its ideological orientation; after all, it’s still valuable experience that can benefit the firm when the associate uses what he or she has learned in later work for paying clients&quot;

I imagine Ayn would say this is a mere rationalization at best, and untrue at worst.  Perhaps the best experience is working for paying clients who will reward you if you do a good job, and punish you if you don&#039;t.  Freebie clients have no economic clout to punish you if you screw up the case.  And isn&#039;t there someting condenscending about putting inexperienced people in charge of people&#039;s lives?  Would you really want a lawyer who&#039;se never been in a court room representing you?  And he or she is treating this as a &#039;learning experience.?&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But &#8212; Wouldn&#8217;t Ayn Rand oppose pro bono work by anyone?  </p>
<p>If you spent the time earning money rather than donating your time, aren&#8217;t you helping society much better than giving away your expertise for free?</p>
<p>If people can&#8217;t pay for representation themselves, isn&#8217;t that their problem?  </p>
<p>&#8221; At many firms, partners are happy to have associates take on such work even if they don’t necessarily agree with its ideological orientation; after all, it’s still valuable experience that can benefit the firm when the associate uses what he or she has learned in later work for paying clients&#8221;</p>
<p>I imagine Ayn would say this is a mere rationalization at best, and untrue at worst.  Perhaps the best experience is working for paying clients who will reward you if you do a good job, and punish you if you don&#8217;t.  Freebie clients have no economic clout to punish you if you screw up the case.  And isn&#8217;t there someting condenscending about putting inexperienced people in charge of people&#8217;s lives?  Would you really want a lawyer who&#8217;se never been in a court room representing you?  And he or she is treating this as a &#8216;learning experience.?&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Hadur</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705050</link>
		<dc:creator>Hadur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705050</guid>
		<description>arbitraryaardvark, what do you mean that you have &quot;failed&quot;. Do you mean that you were unsuccessful in securing pro bono cases for yourself? That you have lost your cases? Or that you have not turned a profit on being a conservative public interest lawyer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>arbitraryaardvark, what do you mean that you have &#8220;failed&#8221;. Do you mean that you were unsuccessful in securing pro bono cases for yourself? That you have lost your cases? Or that you have not turned a profit on being a conservative public interest lawyer?</p>
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		<title>By: arbitraryaardvark</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705045</link>
		<dc:creator>arbitraryaardvark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705045</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve spent my legal career trying and failing at this sort of thing.
I attribute the failing part to my own shortcomings and ineptitude - I still think it&#039;s a good business model. The post tends to mix up two concepts. It should not be asssumed that cases furthering the causes of liberty can&#039;t pay for themselves. There are at least three sources of revenue. 1) damages. Always ask for damages, and always research viable legal grounds for your damage requests. Too many cases just seek injunctions or declaratory judgments, so that when they win they don&#039;t really win anything, just slow statists trends a little. On this subject, when defending any case, especially one brought by the government, look for counterclaims.
2. fee shifting statutes. An example of a conservative form doing libertarian cases and generating over a million $ in fees year after year is James Bopp&#039;s firm in Terre Haute IN. Every case seeks fees under 42 USC 1983, and usually gets them.
3. Paying clients. There are two types of paying clients. One set is the &quot;principle of the thing&quot; type. I worked on contract for a lawyer friend  who represented a group of reptile dealers, who felt their rights were violated after a raid at a trade show. We lost, but they paid their bill and haven&#039;t been raided again. The other group is people who have deep pockets - they have property, want to keep it, and it&#039;s a reasonable business decision to spend some money on lawyers.   These clients won&#039;t just walk in the door - you need to make some rain.
 I got into this area expecting I would work with the Libertarian Party on ballot access cases. I&#039;m a fan of Richard Winger&#039;s work in that area. Got side tracked and most of my cases are about anonymous campaign speech. The precedents were set back in the 60s, it&#039;s just a matter of doing the followup work state by state county by county. At first I thought it would be a quick project and that then I&#039;d move on to the next one, maybe flag burning, but it turns out there&#039;s a lifetime of work just on campaign speech cases.
One of my main bottlenecks is a lack of cocounsel in other states. It  would be useful if there were some central clearinghouse of people willing to be local counsel for libertarian/conservaative cases, so that if you found a project that worked in your  state you could easily go national and bring cases in any state that&#039;s unwilling to follow what the supreme court has said the law is. I haven&#039;t found that.  At one time the NAACP had an organization like that, with Thurgood Marshall at the top doing the work, and got a lot accomplished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve spent my legal career trying and failing at this sort of thing.<br />
I attribute the failing part to my own shortcomings and ineptitude &#8211; I still think it&#8217;s a good business model. The post tends to mix up two concepts. It should not be asssumed that cases furthering the causes of liberty can&#8217;t pay for themselves. There are at least three sources of revenue. 1) damages. Always ask for damages, and always research viable legal grounds for your damage requests. Too many cases just seek injunctions or declaratory judgments, so that when they win they don&#8217;t really win anything, just slow statists trends a little. On this subject, when defending any case, especially one brought by the government, look for counterclaims.<br />
2. fee shifting statutes. An example of a conservative form doing libertarian cases and generating over a million $ in fees year after year is James Bopp&#8217;s firm in Terre Haute IN. Every case seeks fees under 42 USC 1983, and usually gets them.<br />
3. Paying clients. There are two types of paying clients. One set is the &#8220;principle of the thing&#8221; type. I worked on contract for a lawyer friend  who represented a group of reptile dealers, who felt their rights were violated after a raid at a trade show. We lost, but they paid their bill and haven&#8217;t been raided again. The other group is people who have deep pockets &#8211; they have property, want to keep it, and it&#8217;s a reasonable business decision to spend some money on lawyers.   These clients won&#8217;t just walk in the door &#8211; you need to make some rain.<br />
 I got into this area expecting I would work with the Libertarian Party on ballot access cases. I&#8217;m a fan of Richard Winger&#8217;s work in that area. Got side tracked and most of my cases are about anonymous campaign speech. The precedents were set back in the 60s, it&#8217;s just a matter of doing the followup work state by state county by county. At first I thought it would be a quick project and that then I&#8217;d move on to the next one, maybe flag burning, but it turns out there&#8217;s a lifetime of work just on campaign speech cases.<br />
One of my main bottlenecks is a lack of cocounsel in other states. It  would be useful if there were some central clearinghouse of people willing to be local counsel for libertarian/conservaative cases, so that if you found a project that worked in your  state you could easily go national and bring cases in any state that&#8217;s unwilling to follow what the supreme court has said the law is. I haven&#8217;t found that.  At one time the NAACP had an organization like that, with Thurgood Marshall at the top doing the work, and got a lot accomplished.</p>
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		<title>By: ArthurKirkland</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705037</link>
		<dc:creator>ArthurKirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:56:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705037</guid>
		<description>Libertarians should be grateful for the libertarian-liberal public interest law movement, and hope that the libertarian-conservative movement is as helpful to their cause.

While rooting hard, of course, against social conservatives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Libertarians should be grateful for the libertarian-liberal public interest law movement, and hope that the libertarian-conservative movement is as helpful to their cause.</p>
<p>While rooting hard, of course, against social conservatives.</p>
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		<title>By: Ilya Somin</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705031</link>
		<dc:creator>Ilya Somin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705031</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I’ve never sensed that libertarian causes lack the support of altruistic lawyers, at least not with respect to the half of libertarianism that overlaps liberalism rather than conservatism.&lt;/em&gt;

Obviously, libertarian causes benefit from the efforts of liberal lawyers in areas where liberal and libertarian agendas overlap. The libertarian-conservative public interest law movement, however, focuses more on those areas where they conflict: property rights, affirmative action, campaign finance, economic liberties, and so forth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I’ve never sensed that libertarian causes lack the support of altruistic lawyers, at least not with respect to the half of libertarianism that overlaps liberalism rather than conservatism.</em></p>
<p>Obviously, libertarian causes benefit from the efforts of liberal lawyers in areas where liberal and libertarian agendas overlap. The libertarian-conservative public interest law movement, however, focuses more on those areas where they conflict: property rights, affirmative action, campaign finance, economic liberties, and so forth.</p>
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		<title>By: ArthurKirkland</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2009/12/10/addressing-the-most-important-weakness-of-conservative-libertarian-public-interest-law/comment-page-1/#comment-705012</link>
		<dc:creator>ArthurKirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=22915#comment-705012</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never sensed that libertarian causes lack the support of altruistic lawyers, at least not with respect to the half of libertarianism that overlaps liberalism rather than conservatism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never sensed that libertarian causes lack the support of altruistic lawyers, at least not with respect to the half of libertarianism that overlaps liberalism rather than conservatism.</p>
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