The Wall Street Journal has an entertaining article on the front page (Justin Lahart, Jan. 2, 2010), recounting tales of economists as hard bargainers and, well, cheapskates. The article opens noting that the annual professional meetings occur the week after New Year, when hotel costs are generally low, and this year are taking place in Atlanta:
Academic economists gather in Atlanta this weekend for their annual meetings, always held the first weekend after New Year’s Day. That’s not only because it coincides with holidays at most universities. A post-holiday lull in business travel also puts hotel rates near the lowest point of the year.
Economists are often cheapskates.
The economists make cities bid against each other to hold their convention, and don’t care so much about beaches, golf courses or other frills. It’s like buying a car, explains the American Economic Association’s secretary-treasurer, John Siegfried, an economist at Vanderbilt University.
The rest of the article has entertaining stories of people like Keynes and Milton Friedman. But let me stick with professional conferences. We law professors are also holding professional conventions this week, as are many other academic groups, such as the MLA. Price is part of the timing; so is, as the article notes, the general agreement to schedule academic calendars across the country’s institutions in order to hold the professional meetings before classes resume.
Update: I didn’t realize that this economics conference is also a job market and not just professional confab – definitely changes the picture. Here is an interesting comment, pulled up from below:
As someone pretty close to the economics AEA meetings, I think the article misses the point about these meetings: they aren’t in fancy places because a huge swath of attendees are graduate students doing job market interviews. These students basically have 0 willingness to pay for beaches or casinos at this point. Economics conferences are often held in really expensive and fancy places, but the winter meetings are different. Maybe I’m overestimating the importance of this factor, but it seems at least worth mentioning.
But we law professors hold our meetings in places like San Diego and, this year, New Orleans. What does this say about us, compared to the economists? More interested in rent-seeking than being good agents on behalf of our institutional principals? More efficient rent-seeking public-choicers than the economists (I mean ‘rent-seeking’ here in the sense of, we won’t come if you hold it in Minneapolis in January, so …)? We care more about golf and beaches? We’re better at golfing and surfing and, in New Orleans, eating? Our meetings are more boring to attend, so we need better venues to attract conference-goers? Our attendees are so dedicated to their conference sessions, it doesn’t matter whether they’re held in San Diego or Moose Jaw (in winter and summer, below fold)?
Moose Jaw in summer is quite lovely, by the way, and not just as places in Saskatchewan go. I’m not going to the AALS meetings – I’ve almost never gone. I’m not sure why, come to think of it. It’s paid for by the school and the cities are often great places to go. (This year I have a conflicting Hoover meeting in Palo Alto, and those task force meetings are always great.) But, sad truth be told, I also think it’s because I’m a rampant egotist beneath the tranquil academic exterior, and it’s hard for me to go to a conference where … I’m not on the program. This is embarrassing to admit, but, if I’m honest, it’s hard for me to sit through a meeting where I’m not doing the talking or some chunk of it. But am I truly alone in that – be honest – it must be part of the reason why conferences today feature so many talkers on panels (besides the fact that traditional academic papers have to be read to be understood, not read aloud)? Plus, as Steve Bainbridge commented on his blog, most of the intellectual action in law these days takes place in more specialized venues.
(PS. I haven’t participated in any conference venue negotiations, but I’d be easily open to persuasion that major conference cities do price weather and season, not just to say, bad weather=cheaper rates, but also running the other way: Bad weather=fewer conferences in off-season=not geared up for major conferences in places like Minneapolis in winter except at higher effective prices=New Orleans or San Diego have better weather and more cost effective at the same time, with golf and beach merely marginal bonuses or loss-leaders.)
Marc DeGirolami says:
I’m brand new at this, but in support of your ‘egotism’ point, I’ve observed that law professors tend to leave conferences and symposia very shortly after they’ve made their presentation. So one’s placement in the program is rather important (I am learning!).
January 2, 2010, 11:24 amU.Va. Grad says:
Hey now! The wind chill was only a balmy -35 last night!
January 2, 2010, 11:43 amKenneth Anderson says:
Marc: but do they leave them to go golf and surf?
January 2, 2010, 11:45 amOrin Kerr says:
Ken,
I think the answer is along the lines of your suggestion. The AALS can be a fun place to schmooze and see old friends, but in past years the academic quality generally has been relatively low. A lot of the top scholars don’t go, and a lot of the people who go attend only a few panels. As a result, the AALS is seen as as much or more a boondoggle and social event than a serious academic meeting. As a result, attendance is tied to location. That’s my sense, at least.
January 2, 2010, 12:06 pms says:
As someone pretty close to the economics AEA meetings, I think the article misses the point about these meetings: they aren’t in fancy places because a huge swath of attendees are graduate students doing job market interviews. These students basically have 0 willingness to pay for beaches or casinos at this point. Economics conferences are often held in really expensive and fancy places, but the winter meetings are different. Maybe I’m overestimating the importance of this factor, but it seems at least worth mentioning.
January 2, 2010, 12:18 pmcorneille1640 says:
I can’t speak to the situation of economists or law professors, but when it comes to labor history professors…..they like the fancy beaches and so forth and they tend to treat service workers more rudely than one might think proper for someone who studies the history of oppressed workers.
January 2, 2010, 12:19 pmThe River Temoc, In Winter says:
This is true of conferences generally. The rule of thumb is that for a two-day conference, you get a 50% drop-off in attendance on the second day.
January 2, 2010, 1:29 pmChrisTS says:
The MLA and the APA (philosophical, not psychological) both hold their biggest meetings between Christmas and New Years.
This year, the APA held its Eastern Division meetings – where most of the job interviewing is done – in NYC. Both the timing and the location are dreadfully expensive for people looking for jobs or those who are underemployed/undersupported. (IMO, the timing is awful for everyone who does not live quite close to whatever the site is.)
I don’t know if philosophers are ruder than others to service people, but we tend to be vague and in frequent need of assistance (How does the heat work? How do I know which elevators go to my floor? I’ve left both card keys in my room and am locked out.)
No doubt it is our haplessness that keeps us coming back to NYC at the most expensive time every 4 years.
January 2, 2010, 2:03 pmJoseph Slater says:
corneille1640: What labor history conferences have you been attending? My last one was in Detroit (which, I stress, does have some nice parts but is hardly a big tourist destination). And the folks I lunched with left good tips.
As to law profs, the AALS isn’t the only conference, although it is the One Big General one. A recent conference of the American Legal History Society (held jointly with its Canadian counterpart) was in Ottawa, Canada — in mid-November. Quite a snowstorm. . .
I do think the fact that the law “hiring” conference is separate from the law “everybody get together” conference explains some of the law prof choices for the AALS.
Finally, if you really want to see conferences in exotic and arguably junket-like places, look at ABA “real-lawyer” mid-year meetings. I go to one, and it’s incredibly valuable to me professionally, but it’s often in, say, Mexico in January.
January 2, 2010, 2:19 pmPerseus says:
The American Political Science Association rotates its conferences in places such as D.C. (of course), San Francisco, New Orleans, Toronto (passport required), etc. and it’s held over Labor Day weekend, which doesn’t exactly evince much concern for the tight budgets of most people on the job market for the first time.
As for the relationship between attending and being a presenter, some institutions will only fully reimburse your expenses if you present a paper, while those without tenure need to bulk up their CV.
January 2, 2010, 2:49 pmPaul McKaskle says:
Having attended many AALS meetings (but no longer) Oren Kerr has it right. Thirty years ago the meetings were more interesting–and more “eminent” names were often in attendance.
January 2, 2010, 3:07 pmChrisTS says:
Perseus:
This always seems so dumb to me. When schools only support folks who are presenting, this means lots of people who would benefit from the experience cannot go and the number of less-than-stellar panels is increased to provide colleagues with a way to get reimbursed.
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January 2, 2010, 6:04 pmPerseus says:
Tsk. Tsk. It’s not very collegial of you to suggest that any panel is less-than-stellar!
January 2, 2010, 10:35 pmJosh B says:
The AEA meetings float around. They will be in San Diego in 2013. Other upcoming cities are Denver, Chicago, Philadelphia and Boston. Not everybody likes visiting snowy places in January, but most top economics departments are already located in the northeast and midwest, so if you’re going on the job market you’re probably OK with the idea of encountering snow.
But anyway, the main theme seems to be that the meetings are in large cities with large hotels and good airport connections. I gather they held the meetings in Anaheim in the mid-90s and much bitching ensued due to the lack of urban amenities. I have also heard a (possibly apocryphal) claim that the Las Vegas Convention & Visitors’ Bureau has declared that it does not want the AEA meetings. Certainly, a lack of cheap hotel rooms is not a reason that the AEA would stay way from Vegas.
January 2, 2010, 11:31 pmliutem says:
hah, this topic a lil spicy
January 2, 2010, 11:47 pmDave Hardy says:
” As a result, the AALS is seen as as much or more a boondoggle and social event than a serious academic meeting.”
It might still be a boondoggle, but at least one with some meaning, if anyone chose to attend this conference:
http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2009/12/upcoming_legal.php
January 3, 2010, 12:53 amtheobromophile says:
Larger question: why, then, are Fed Soc student symposia always held in cold, snowy locations?
January 3, 2010, 1:45 amMM says:
corneille1640: I know a few labor historians and I have never noticed that they treat service people poorly. Is your experience different? Is it based on considerable contact with labor historians, or just an instance or two?
January 3, 2010, 7:21 amThe American Historical Association (AHA) Conference is in San Diego next week. The AHA has academic panels, but it is also where job interviewing takes place. I remember reading an article a few years back outlining the many variables (often conflicting), that go into determining a locale for the conference: adequate conference facilities for a large group, cost for attendees, alternating geographical region, etc. As a result the AHA tends to move between about 10 cities in the U.S. and Canada.
Orin Kerr says:
Larger question: why, then, are Fed Soc student symposia always held in cold, snowy locations?
It was at Stanford in ’95 and Berkeley in ’01.
January 3, 2010, 12:57 pmtheobromophile says:
It might have also been at Vanderbilt in ’04, but that was before my time.
May I modify my question: Why are Fed Soc student symposia held in cold, snowy locations about 80% of the time?
January 3, 2010, 6:09 pmRicardo says:
I’ve talked to people who have been on the organizing committee for AEA and this is right. Another key is hotels with conference facilities large enough to accommodate all the attendees, including all the job candidates. That immediately narrows down the list of cities.
Another important factor is that since no one hotel is big enough to accommodate everyone, it needs to be in a city where there is a cluster of hotels all within either walking distance or within a short taxi ride (again, with enough taxis plying the road to meet everyone’s needs). Job candidates often have 10 or 12 interviews lined up back-to-back and they are not all in the same place so it needs to be possible to get from one hotel to another as quickly as possible.
In short, it makes sense for AEA to bargain hard since all these restrictions mean the meetings will tend to be in big, expensive cities with relatively expensive hotels.
January 3, 2010, 9:39 pmSam says:
Ricardo, I hadn’t realized the AEA conference was large enough to require major convention facilities; I’m guessing a major additional constraint on the time of the year it is held are other groups (particularly industry and professional) willing to pay more for such facilities.
January 4, 2010, 12:05 amRicardo says:
I recall reading one econ blog a while ago where an economist claimed that he was approached by an attractive woman at the hotel bar during an economics conference and the woman later turned out to be a prostitute. After being refused she asked him something like “Who are all you guys? No girls, no drugs, but you sure like to drink lots of beer.” Probably she couldn’t wait for the economists to clear out of the place to make room for the business travelers.
January 4, 2010, 1:13 am