Ford Motor Company’s December 2009 sales were up 33 percent from December 2008. By comparison, Chrysler’s sales were down 4 percent. GM has yet to report. One factor is almost certainly the quality of Ford’s product — my wife certainly loves her Ford Edge and hopes we’ll get another when the lease runs out — but I suspect Ford’s position as the only major U.S. automaker to neither go bankrupt nor take bailout money is another.
UPDATE: GM December sales were down 6 percent. Most foreign automakers posted December gains. Honda, for instance, reported a 24 percent increase in December sales; Nissan an 18 percent gain.
John Skookum says:
I’m thinking of buying a small pickup truck and Ford is the ONLY domestic maker on my list. I will never never never buy a vehicle from Barack Obama and his thieving union thugs. John Skookum(Quote)
Valentino Rossi says:
Next car I buy will be a Ford. Forget GM or Chrysler. Valentino Rossi(Quote)
Bjartur says:
For me it’s not Ford’s status as a domestic automaker; it’s Ford’s status as a corporation that will only attempt to get my money by earning it. Bjartur(Quote)
Daniel says:
I believe in the Free Enterprise system, which is why I only buy Honda. As soon as an American Manufacturer makes a car as good, as cheap, and as reliable as a Honda, I would consider them. As for now, My Natural Gas powered Honda Civic is all I need (no imported Oil for me). Daniel(Quote)
JRL says:
Daniel:
I generally agree with you. But there is also the fact that our government makes American cars more expensive than their Asian competition through regulation and labor laws, etc., to deal with. JRL(Quote)
Paul Sand says:
I was in a Ford dealership last week, and saw a car on display with a big “NO BAILOUT NEEDED” sign in the windshield. Sounds like they realize it resonates well with customers. Paul Sand(Quote)
Mark N. says:
I think a good deal of the labor difference is hard to blame on government, at least directly, but more a result of the fact that American workers historically have driven much harder bargains with their employers than Japanese workers have, and American companies, for various reasons of expediency, signed some very unwise deals with them. In particular, a bunch of deals were signed in the 70s and 80s that automakers should’ve known to be unaffordable in the long term, but since it was beyond the horizon where that particular management team was likely to still be in charge, they signed ‘em anyway and kicked the can down the road. Mark N.(Quote)
Dotar Sojat says:
I think that a lot of people have decided that Government Motors and their unions can go spit. Its not only about the cars now. Dotar Sojat(Quote)
redc1c4 says:
i will consider Ford only after they throw off the UAW yoke. GM and Chrysler are dead to me. redc1c4(Quote)
BT says:
I’m with Daniel on Honda. I am at 170,000 on my little Civic and hope to get to 300,000. If I were to buy a domestic it would be Ford, but the Honda has been the best car I have ever owned. BT(Quote)
wws says:
I saw a small truck on the road yesterday, very unusual and attractive design, It was called a Chevrolet Tornado. I thought now that’s fascinating! Chevy has come out with a good looking new product and I’ve never even heard about it! So I looked it up online — and it turns out it is built in Brazil and sold in Mexico, but isn’t allowed to be sold in the US.
Here GM has a car/truck that is fuel efficient, good looking, and would probably be wildly popular — and they can’t be bothered to even try selling it in this country.
The way that GM is (badly) run never ceases to amaze me. wws(Quote)
egd says:
I’ll admit to buying a GM car recently. But in my defense, it’s hard to purchase a Honda when your wife’s father, 8 uncles, both grandfathers, and a number of extended family are GM retirees.
I got a lot of “buy American” talk. They didn’t like it when I mentioned that our Chevy Equinox was made in Ontario while the comparable Honda CR-V was made in Ohio.
Oh well, at least it’s a nice car, if moderately overpriced. egd(Quote)
Sun Tzu's Nephew says:
As far as buying ‘Domestic’ you have three choices:
GM, built by the US Government and UAW goons
Chrysler, built by the US Government and Fiat (God help us all),
or
Ford.....
I have NEVER found anything the US (or any other) government does well. Even very, very important things are done horribly inefficiently (like national defense) but nothing done well.
And Fiat? Holy crap! When you absolutely, positively need a set of replacemnt brake shoes, all thats stopping you from getting them is a postal strike in Italy...The only surviving model line from Chrysler will be Jeep (and who knows how long that will last). Sun Tzu’s Nephew(Quote)
JMA says:
You know, I do hear a lot about the reliability of Japanese cars, etc., but I wonder how much those manufacturers appreciate the fact that, realistically, this means a guy like me only strongly considers Honda or Toyota an option when he’s planning to spend a few years in Houston and fully expects to leave the former “car” parked next to the curb as a neatly car-shaped pile of rust and rubber.
My dream car hasn’t yet been built. I just hope Ford is still legally allowed to build it when the time comes. JMA(Quote)
ShelbyC says:
I just wish the “jeep” brand would move to a non-bailout company. ShelbyC(Quote)
CAM says:
Too bad best performing car company in the US today was founded by one of the most virulent anti-semites in US history. CAM(Quote)
therut says:
So what. The ACLU was stated by commies and the UNIONS too. Good Grief. How about the saint of Planned Parenthood and her nazi and eugenic beliefs. Do you really want to go down that long and nasty trail. therut(Quote)
Rebelyell says:
I never knew how many people agree with me about GM. I loved my old Suburban and like my Avalanche. They ride great, better than a Ford. But I just won’t buy from Government Motors and its union thugs.
I’m guessing my next vehicle will be Honda or Toyota. Rebelyell(Quote)
Mark N. says:
For what it’s worth, the Planned Parenthood founder’s eugenic beliefs primarily involved “soft” eugenics via a combination of immigration policy (exclude “unfit” people from immigration) and wide availability of contraceptives, though she did support sterilization of the severely mentally ill. She actively denounced the Nazi eugenics policies years before WW2. She was even against abortion, arguing that contraceptives were far superior. Mark N.(Quote)
Constantin says:
The “No Bailout” angle is gaining steam across the spectrum. I’ve seen two different bank advertisements explicitly using it, and not a weekend of football (and truck commercial) watching goes by without someone at the bar or restaurant saying they’ll never buy GM again. The “May the best car win” tagline GM is using is second only to the mind-blowing Miracle Whip ads in terms of unintentionally drawing audible laughter at these gatherings. Constantin(Quote)
therut says:
I will never buy a .gov auto. I do not support the concept and the UNIONS can lick the dirt off my shoes. I just do not understand why the companies do not move the whole thing to a non union state. They would have no problem getting happy workers at half or a third of their cost now. And these people would live good middle income lives at those wages. Why they stay in dead corrupt states is beyond any understanding. The Japan auto makers are much smarter. therut(Quote)
gab says:
I’m planning on buying the 6.2 L Camaro producing 426hp. And the fewer people I’m competing with to buy one, the better. Y’all buy your little bittie Ford Mustangs... gab(Quote)
ArrowSmith says:
If you hate unions, you hate America. The unions built American industry and won us WW II. ArrowSmith(Quote)
Bski says:
We’re just mad that we are forced to help you buy it. Bski(Quote)
DonP. says:
Hate America, yeah, OK, sure.
Did you get that “history” book from the Flint Michigan Consolidated School District?
They must have left out the chapters where FDR had to threaten some union leaders with prison during WWII that went on strike in what were considered critical industries. DonP.(Quote)
BT says:
Gee ArrowSmith, my old man fought in WWII and he never said anything about a union. Halsey, MacArthur and Patton, I guess they were in a union as well. SEIU no doubt. BT(Quote)
ShelbyC says:
No, you hate America. Geez. ShelbyC(Quote)
Instapundit » Blog Archive » BAILOUT BENEFITS: Ford sales surge as GM’s fall…. says:
vinniethevendor says:
Just ordered a Ford Ranger pickup 12/30/09. While I’ve always preferred Ford, previous to the bailout I at least considered GM (never Chrysler). Never say never, but GM is dead to me. Several friends w/fleets of trucks say they’re done with Government Motors too...... vinniethevendor(Quote)
Neal Scroggs says:
Wow! As my former professor was fond of saying that’s not even wrong. American industry was built by investors. Perhaps some of those investors were union members, but that’s irrelevant. And as for the unions and WWII, you should study the history of the Guadalcanal campaign. Neal Scroggs(Quote)
tamdar says:
My Dodge truck is 12 years old. It still runs great and looks great after 180k miles. Yet when the time comes to buy a new truck, and for the rest of my truck-buying life, I am now a Ford man. As soon as Chrysler and GM were “nationalized”, I decided I won’t ever buy another product from them. I did just order a Toyota FJ Cruiser, though, as Ford has no comparable product. tamdar(Quote)
therut says:
Unions built this country and won WW2. Learn something outrageous everyday!!!!!! That is just funny. How long you been reading that propaganda? If UNIONS would stick to work place politics ONLY I might give them a very small whiff of acceptance. But they do not so I have no use for them and the foolish people who will sell their soul and mine for 20 pieces of silver. therut(Quote)
JoeS says:
I love my Toyota Tundra after 30+ years of American Full-Sized Trucks and Vans.
Toyota is made in USA, not Union Thug, and is not owned by the Communist Party. JoeS(Quote)
No more GM for me says:
I own a GM truck. It has been a great truck. It is the last time I will own any GM (or Chrysler) product.
I will not support a government/union takeover of our industry. No more GM for me(Quote)
ic says:
“The unions ... won us WW II.”
Yep, those GIs put their union made guns down after 4 hrs of shooting, take a 15 min. coffee break, resume killing the Germans for another 4 hrs, then pack up and go back to the union dug trenches. ic(Quote)
zippypinhead says:
We’ve had only Hondas for the last decade. Currently have an Ohio-assembled Accord with 178k miles and an Alabama-assembled Odyssey with 95k miles. Both have performed well and been very reliable. U.S. workers can indeed build good cars under the right conditions.
But the Accord is getting long in the tooth, and I’ve begun shopping for a replacement. I intend to seriously consider a Ford Fusion. Consumer Reports rates it about equal to the current Accord (and even more reliable!), and as an added bonus, buying a Fusion should save about $2,000 off the out-the-door price charged by the greedy Honda dealers in my area for comparable Accords (yes, I know they’re just responding to supply and demand, but my personal demand curve is very price-elastic). zippypinhead(Quote)
tomj says:
having owned a honda accord (1987 — best car I’ve ever owned), my 2008 fusion is pretty close in quality. i would highly recommend it to anyone looking at honda and toyota. you’ll be surprised. tomj(Quote)
BO says:
Hey, UAWGM, don’t worry about these fools who are unwilling to exchange their money for your cars. I’m just going to take their money (under threat of imprisionment) and give it to you. Forget about building the car. Too complicated. Works out better for everyone, doesn’t it? BO(Quote)
Malvolio says:
Yeah, but he’s dead and won’t benefit from your buying a Ford. Malvolio(Quote)
Mikey says:
I bought a Dodge Dakota brand-new in 2006, long before all this bailout mess, and it’s a great truck. Love it, runs great, looks great, has never needed anything but an oil change and blinker bulb replacement.
However, my next truck will be an F-150.
Would never buy GM before, definitely won’t do it now. Howie Long can go scratch. Mikey(Quote)
Sarcastro says:
It’s either love all unions (and therefore Obama) or hate them all (and therefore Obama!)
I have it on good authority that EVERY union member who is making a GM car is a dag-nasty thug-goon! None of them need the money anyhow.
Until we all buy our cars based on black-and-white political calculus, this country is doomed! Sarcastro(Quote)
Jim says:
Actually, unions are what made the Depression “Great”. Jim(Quote)
spostrel says:
What’s especially tough for GM is that their core customers in the heartland are probably just the sort of folks who don’t like the bailout on principle. In California, where GM’s market share has been horrible for a long time, people are lot less outraged by the bailout but are also much less likely to deviate from their import-preferring ways. So they have two disjoint sets of consumers with distinct complementary reasons for not buying their cars. D’oh! spostrel(Quote)
bastiches says:
While Ford did not receive a bailout package like the other two US mfrs, Ford will be receiving taxpayer money in the form of loans. Next year Ford is scheduled to receive over $5 billion US under the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing Loan Program. bastiches(Quote)
ED Maven says:
Last August I wrote an op-ed in the Los Angeles Daily Journal. It contained this passage:
Are any of you GM bashers GM bondholders? Just wondering. ED Maven(Quote)
Tom DeGisi says:
What’s wrong with a union?
Hmmm.
A union wholesales labor as a commodity. Nothing wrong with that.
The problem is the laws which make unions into monopoly wholesalers of that commodity — without, for example, the large regulatory structure including price regulations which are a feature of other legally created monopolies in this country.
If the law did not force people to join unions or people to buy from unions and if uions operated more like other businees, so that GM typically could choose from United Auto Workers or National Auto Workers or Columbia Auto Workers or about twenty or thirty firms which provided auto work I would have no problem buying union made goods.
But under current law unions are oppressive monopolies. We need to remove the laws which favor unions and probably add something to fragment the unions like union anti-trust laws and union market colusion laws until typically unionized labor markets return to a reasonable level of market choice. At that point remove the new laws and let unions act responsibly in the resulting sensible market place.
It is paramount to allow neither side to resort to violence — or even active pacifist resistance such as lying down in front of trucks.
For now I don’t want to buy any UAW made cars.
Yours,
Tom DeGisi Tom DeGisi(Quote)
Ed Nutter says:
There’s one vehicle that will draw me into a Chrysler dealership. It’s the Dodge Sprinter delivery van, actually built and sold around the world by Mercedes. Mine will be converted into a class B motorhome.
Ford trucks, including their heavy vans, are pretty good. But they’re not as good as that Mercedes.
Cars? I generally buy Toyotas, but I’m eying the Escape. Ed Nutter(Quote)
Bill Johnson says:
There is only one American car company I can currently consider — I will not buy from the UAW/Democrat owned monstrosities. The sooner they die, the sooner I get to stop paying for ‘em.
And mind you, I love corvettes, CTS-V, etc. Too f’n bad. Tainted Fruit.
OTOH, I made 60+ percent on Ford stock this year — if only I had gotten in at $1.50...
How’s that GM stock going? Bill Johnson(Quote)
Joseph Slater says:
If the law did not force people to join unions or people to buy from unions
The law does not force anyone to be in a union, and it certainly doesn’t force “people” to buy from unions. But correcting misinformation about unions on this blog would be a full-time job. Joseph Slater(Quote)
Bill Johnson says:
Ed Nutter:
I don’t think Dodge gets to sell those anymore... Bill Johnson(Quote)
astonerii says:
Why do you think these companies were forced to make those bad deals? Because the federal and state governments prevented them from Union Busting or replacing union workers with non union workers. Yes, the companies could have closed shop and moved to another state or country, but they had invested billions of dollars in infrastructure that they would have to abandon and rebuild elsewhere. Every last progressive liberal policy always causes harm to this country and its workers, every last one of them, and it is not a flaw, it is by design. Progressives want to have the revolution Cuba had. astonerii(Quote)
Milwaukee Bill says:
As a lifelong GM buyer I finally switched to my first Japanese made car last year. What a difference! I finally came to the conclusion that what is wrong with GM, Chrysler and Ford is not management but union which stands in the way of efficiency and quality. When was the last time the term “Made Right, Made Union” was seen on an American product? Union shops are notoriously overpriced and below average quality. Milwaukee Bill(Quote)
Bill Johnson says:
Joseph Slater:
You workplace is having a union election. You are opposed to the union, but the union wins the election.
At this point, you are technically correct — no law forces you to join that union — unless you want to keep your job. And you defend this? Stay the hill outta my state.
Correct away, willya? Bill Johnson(Quote)
Sun Tzu's Nephew says:
Oh, BS. The unions were effectively neutered during WWII — too bad they didnt stay that way.
And there isn’t a union that ever gave me a job. Sun Tzu’s Nephew(Quote)
astonerii says:
I do not see a problem with this, nor should anyone else. Ford is being FORCED by government mandate to produce new technology that it would not normally work towards, because it is economically unsound technology at this time, thus they should have assistance in funding that research, from those who force them to pursue it. If you want to have a problem with this loan, then you should start at the source of why they need the money, and that would be federal laws, not market forces. astonerii(Quote)
dmoynihan says:
Bailouts are a sensitive topic. As part of my business, I have to deal with a TARP-receiving bank. Essentially, I’m receiving checks denominated in a foreign currency, too small to, you know, fly to Bermuda over, but still money.
The non-TARP bank that I deal with, just can’t handle them without what are called “collection fees” 3-week waits, etc. So, I go to a big bank in my area. They can handle the drafts, and usually give me credit instantly.
But last month, somebody goofed–probably the teller, who appeared to be 8.75 months pregnant when she dealt with me. The in-person deposit showed briefly in my account, then vanished.
Three weeks later (it was Xmas, plus maybe they had to clear the item overseas), I finally email somebody about it–they’re like, we need more data about the transaction. I give them what I have. They’re like, no, we need more data.
So, I go off on them, already getting ready to request a second check be issued, about my non-TARP bank account, and the billions they’ve taken from taxpayers, and who loses a counter credit, anyway?
The full deposit (all 3 figures!) was in my account the next day. dmoynihan(Quote)
Bilgeman says:
It’s funny, and sad, how it’s the UAW workers who have taken it up the wazoo on the PR front.
Let’s be cleaqr on something, if you want to bash the UAW, at least blame the UAW’s leadership.
And GM’s management can suck on it too as far as I’m concerned. It wasn’t the UAW that decided to fill radiators with Dexcool, which turned to pudding...that was Management’s call.
The Asians buiding automobiles here in the US have taught us a few lessons, if we’re smart enough to learn them.
They are better corporate managers than we are, and since that’s so, their workforces don’t NEED unions.
Buy all the GM’s you like, just buy ‘em used. Bilgeman(Quote)
Pintler says:
A Honda with 178K ... maybe middle aged :-). Pintler(Quote)
Galtish bus driver says:
Me too. My current car is a Dodge. But I won’t buy from either GM or Chrysler now that they’ve signed on and taken the government dole. They need to restore to private market discipline asap or, eventually, go under. Just like the Holden, too much “involvement” from the Australian government, or the Wartburg or Trabant, marvels of East German socialist engineering. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luL2JDzH_dM ) Galtish bus driver(Quote)
Paul ADK says:
I bought a new 4X4 Chevrolet 2500HD in May and a new four wheel drive Chevy Colorado pickup last summer. Both are good vehicles that do what I ask of them and came at a decent price. I looked at other manufacturers before I made my decision, but these were the trucks that best fit our needs and I am not so bullheaded as to settle for a second or third choice just to make a point. Paul ADK(Quote)
DaveP. says:
Joe Slater: ...Then, please define the phrase “Closed Shop State”... and explain why the freedom-minded unions are so driven to inflict same on the rest of the country. DaveP.(Quote)
Tom DeGisi says:
The law does not force anyone to be in a union, and it certainly doesn’t force “people” to buy from unions.
As said above, if 50% plus one of the workers vote for a union, all the workers are forced to join or lose their jobs and the employer is forced to buy from the union.
Next time correct something that is incorrect. For example, perhaps I’ve over simplified and missed an important point about labor law. Since I’m only proceeding from common knowledge, not expert knowledge, this is likely. I would therefore welcome such a clarification from you.
But you just asserted I was wrong, even though the common knowledge I detailed above says I’m right.
So this is a plea. Take a little time and show me where my understanding of common knowledge is wrong. It would be interesting, fun and educational! BTW, I know a little about right-to-work laws, and they don’t seem to make much difference. But shoot, I may be wrong about that, too.
Yours,
Tom DeGisi Tom DeGisi(Quote)
SenatorMark4 says:
Boycotting Government Motors is the only real power we have as Americans at this particular point in time. Unless GM believes and proves they can make a better car with government money this is going to be the first learning experience for this administration. Going Postal, in this case, will teach them more than anything until November. SenatorMark4(Quote)
Megaera says:
I have a 10-year-old Tahoe, which I love, and will drive til it turns to dirt, but it’s our last GM anything. Husband has a Ford Escape hybrid, hard to find, but worth it, in my opinion: we got the low-end, spartan version, but it drives well, great mileage, and it’s been no trouble at all for the 3 years we’ve had it. It’s our first hybrid, and that’s kind of uneasy-making, but hey, so far, so good. We keep wanting to buy American, but they keep making it harder and harder to do. Megaera(Quote)
tsotha says:
The law does not force anyone to be in a union...
Well... okay, but that’s some pretty fine hair-splitting. In lots of places the union can force the employer to fire anyone who won’t join the union. I guess that’s not specifically written into the law, but it would never happen without the lopsided favorable treatment the law gives to unions. In other states, like mine, agreements which force employees to join the union are illegal, but the union contract can force all employees to pay union dues whether or not they join. If you’re a teacher in my state part of your pay is going to support the Democratic party regardless of your own political leanings. tsotha(Quote)
nadadhimmi says:
My 06 Mustang GT has 131000 miles on it without anything wrong with it. Runs great, gets 25 mpg and leaves Hemi Chargers in the dust. Actually, ALL American cars are so much better than in the past it’s almost ridiculous. American cars are by far the cheapest to buy and maintain. German cars are outlandishly expensive and break down at the drop of a hat. Japanese cars are average in price and better in reliability, but no more so than Ford, Buick or Cadillac. Chryslers are usually unreliable and a nightmare to fix. Of course, nowadays these are just generalizations as all cars are much better than ever. But don’t hand me that crap about Honda, that’s pure advertising. nadadhimmi(Quote)
Mike Mc. says:
Same here only double it for me.
GM are a piece of f&*k. Obama is a piece of f*&k. All Dems are pieces of f*&k.
Period.
May GM go belly up, and may Obama go with them. Mike Mc.(Quote)
PunditKix says:
Brian Macker says:
I’d boycott Government Motors but I’ve never bought their garbage in the first place. Brian Macker(Quote)
s1c says:
Have been driving the daughter crazy during the bowl games. Every time a Chevy commercial or Chrysler commercial came on, “doesn’t matter took money and will be damned if I buy one from you” was hurled at the TV, but every time the Ford commercial came on, “If I was looking for a truck that is the one I buy”. I don’t think I’m the only one to make those comments during the bowl games. s1c(Quote)
Mike Mc. says:
I have now officially lost all respect for Howie Long.
Old view: good guy; humorous; tough; cool.
New view: Animal Farm Shill. He’s a Pig. Mike Mc.(Quote)
Tweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Ford Sales Surge -- Topsy.com says:
I Callahan says:
If GM is ever going to get out from the government’s stranglehold, they’ll have to sell more cars. They won’t sell more cars if the people on this board are a representative sample of the people who won’t buy GM cars because they’re owned by the government.
I understand why people feel as they do, but why is everyone missing the irony here? I Callahan(Quote)
JP Martin says:
We owned (from new) two Chrylsers and a Ford.
The next new car will be a Ford.
I will never buy a government motors auto. GM is doomed — just like what happened to Smith and Wesson after they signed onto the Clinton trigger-lock BS. JP Martin(Quote)
Sarcastro says:
No, see GHM is a sacrifice! America has many sins, which have culminated in Obama. We cannot end Obama for like three whole years, but we can end GM!
Or at least pretend like we can by yelling at the TV and on the internets (no swearing though! Make sure you put the star in f*ck to keep things classy!).
Thus, like the scapegoat of olde, we will write our sins upon GM and then destroy it. For the good of the village. Sarcastro(Quote)
jgreene says:
Chrysler is dead; Government Motors is dying a subsidized death; Buy Ford if you’re buying American.
Vote these Criminals out of office in 2010, 2012 and beyond. Stand up for America and Citizen Politicians. God Bless America! jgreene(Quote)
CavDude says:
Yup, I went shopping. Test-drove a Chevy Malibu (P.O.S.), a Volvo S40 (nice, but undepowered), and a Ford Fusion Sport. The Ford Fusion Sport was BAD, BLACK, FAST, and now it’s MINE!! (with 25K going to the only real auto company left in the U.S.). Yeah, I voted with my checkbook. Go FORD!! CavDude(Quote)
cubanbob says:
Having been shafted $40,000 as a GM bond holder to payoff the UAW and as a net taxpayer hell yes I will never buy a GM product again.
cubanbob(Quote)
silenceisgolden says:
Be accurate. Only allowed to shoot 20 bullets per hour and then sit and wait for the next hour. After 160 bullets fired, call it a day and go home. silenceisgolden(Quote)
David III (famous sockpuppet) says:
Oh would that be the little bittie 412 hp 5.0 liter 2011 Mustang? David III (famous sockpuppet)(Quote)
Jeffro says:
I know someone who lost $40K invested in GM bonds due to Obama subrogating their debt to keep GM intact. In my opinion what made this country great and prosperous are free markets, individual liberties, rule of law, and private property rights. This is just one example of how private property rights are under assault. Let free markets operate.....and let GM die.
When government interferes markets get out of balance. Read up on the new information coming out about the mortgage crisis. While the private sector’s greed was a huge factor, it wouldn’t be like it is without the complicity of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Congress. At least the private sector is above board in its pursuit of profit, the public sector and its institutions claim to be performing a public service. Lately working stiffs like me seem to be getting serviced by our so called public servants. Jeffro(Quote)
cheeflo says:
No one is missing the irony. It’s been a badly run company and has made bad product decisions for years. GM sees its business as selling cars, when it should see its business as building cars. It isn’t clear to me that GM has learned anything at all, and I have no confidence that it will ever get out from the government stranglehold. cheeflo(Quote)
Tom DeGisi says:
GM sees its business as selling cars, when it should see its business as building cars.
CarMax does a good job selling cars without trying to build them.
Yours,
Tom Tom DeGisi(Quote)
Curious passerby says:
In 40 years of car buying I’ve never bought a foreign car. My last 3 were new Jeeps. Never again Chrysler or GM. Probably Ford if the model is right. But I’ll buy foreign if it’s the best choice. To hell with the US auto unions that destroyed the industry.
In fact unions in general seem bad for society. Can’t we ban unions in government employment? Curious passerby(Quote)
BenP says:
Jesus this thread drew people out of the woodwork BenP(Quote)
nhertel says:
Ummm...maybe you missed the point. It’s too late for GM; let this be a lesson to the next companies crying to Washington, hat in hand. I wonder if Congress is paying attn, or if this is just “teabagging” to them. nhertel(Quote)
SDN says:
I had to have some body work done on my 2001 Nissan Frontier recently. 2 of the 3 choices my insurance wanted were bailout bums. Guess who didn’t get the business.
Oh, and the reason I bought my Nissan (made in TN)? I like a company with the cojones to have an odometer that doesn’t roll over until you hit a million miles. SDN(Quote)
MikeC says:
Count me out on GM and Chrysler products as well. Even used ones.
The looters will get nothing from me except for one special finger. MikeC(Quote)
Corky Boyd says:
While there is no law that says you have to join a union, the first demand a union makes is for a union shop. A union shop means you must join a union within a specified time, usually 30 days. If you don’t you will be fired by the company. It’s that simple.
Even in “right to work states” (where enforced unionism is banned), if you work for a company with a strong union, you will find a lot of unpleasant things happening to you if you are among the few not joining. The simplest is ostracism, no one will talk to you. Beyond that is vandalism and whatever they can do to make life unpleasant.
Obama is trying to make the glory days of the fifties return, where unions extracted high wages for less work from companies protected by distance from competition. But the world has changed. Norman Augustine former CHMN/CEO of Lockheed Martin and Chair of the President’s (Bush)Education Task Force calls the change the “Death of Distance.” A phone call to someone overseas cost tens of dollars in the 1950s, now it cost pennies. The internet means you can order a part from Germany or Taiwan, pay for it by credit card and have shipped by Fedex to your home in less than two days. The protective insulation distance once gave, has disappeared. We must now compete with the rest of the world. Costly manufacturing hampered by antiquated union rules and shop practices, simply won’t allow us to compete.
Companies will either go out of business or have to recieve endless subsidies to keep their heads above water. GM and Chrysler are sopping up money with no end in sight. Already they have received $80 billion and just last week GMAC got $3.4B more. This in gratitude to the UAW who supported Obama.
Where is the money coming from? From borrowing and running the printing presses. If we don’t go bankrupt as a nation, it will come from our children. Corky Boyd(Quote)
oregonjon says:
Later this year I my Jeep is due for a replacement. I’ve owned Jeeps for years with high satisfaction. Next vehicle will almost certainly be a Ford Explorer. The Obama union owners of Chrysler may extort my tax dollars, but they certainly will NOT get my business. oregonjon(Quote)
Daniel says:
First, I am a union member. I’ve been one for nearly 20 years and considering my profession (teacher), I would never consider working in a non-union state. I’ve seen too many little Hitlers (Principals) who grew and held grudges so close to their hearts that the two became indistinguishable. I’ve worked for 8 Principals in my career, and I would say that I have trusted and respected two... Maybe. There is a place for unions in any industrial or bureaucratic setting (and as a Public School Teacher, I know I am in both).
Second, since most of the members here are lawyers, you must know that fiduciary duties do not always allow you to do what you know is right. I worked closely with the Union rep at my last school. He had to defend several bad apples to the best of his ability because it was his job. His cog in the system had to run backwards sometimes (Any defense lawyers here ever have to defend someone who did not deserve a defense? Any Prosecutors have to provide the defense what they needed during discovery, even though it meant letting a guilty man go free? Unions have to do the same thing. Their duties are to the members, not anyone else).
Another duty of unions is to get as much as they can for their members. It is the Owners duty to the shareholders that they not make deals that make it impossible for the business to stay profitable. If UNIONS are making American labor too expensive, do not blame labor, blame management for making the agreements they could not meet and remain profitable.
Finally, Unions do not decide what cars to build, what kind of cars to design, or how to focus the business or the industry. That again is management’s job. Most of the failure of “unions” is a failure of management.
My School district has informed the teachers that they are expecting us to take a 15% pay cut next year or they will have to fire about 15% of the staff. The only problem I see with this is they will not open their books so that we can see that they’ve made all of the cuts necessary before the cuts hit the classroom. I personally have identified about $300,000 in waste in my school site. I have hardly looked. I am SURE there is much more there. The last 2 times the state gave the school district a COLA, they spent the money on items other than salary. When the union asked them where the money went, we were not given answers. Personally, I am willing to strike in order to force the district to show and justify every dollar spent. I have 20 years in. Another 10 or 15 and I will retire (assuming the state pension I’ve paid for is still around). I have been offered jobs out of Education for 3 times my salary (I refused because I didn’t want to work 75 hours a week, 52 weeks a year). I’ve been awarded a “Most Inspirational Teacher” in Los Angeles award twice. I would like to think I am one of the good ones. The fact of the matter is that LAUSD has trained me, paid for my education, Paid my salary. Now that I am at the peak of my career, I am as good as I am ever going to be, I am leaving (once the Economy improves so it is likely I will make my 2 years and 1 day to make permanent status). I will go to any other school district in the county and get more money. Daniel(Quote)
Shane says:
I’ve never understood this sentiment, where the “owner” of a company matters all that much. My current vehicle is an American-built truck made by a Japanese automaker. And I took some flak for buying it some years back because some of my peers believe it is my patriotic duty to buy something different.
Screw that. I’m not going to refrain from buying the vehicle I like the most, just because someone I don’t like might benefit slightly. My purchase is a drop in the bucket to whoever you may be talking about, whether it’s Obama or the Unions or Japan, but it’s a big freaking deal to me. So I should weigh the factors accordingly. And do what’s best for me. Because I’m the American whose economic well-being I care about the most. Shane(Quote)
Brian G. says:
One of the local Ford dealers has been running at the end of their ads for months now the line, “Ford, the only American car company that did not take a dime from the federal government.” And, let me tell you, that line simply works. I just bought a Ford Escape two weeks ago and I am waiting for it to arrive from the factory. In the meantime, they gave me a nice 2010 Focus to drive. We are thinking of dumping our 8 year old car and buying that too. I will never buy a GM or Chrysler because who knows if they will even be in business in 2 years. The heavy government involvement in their companies are not exactly confidence inspiring. Brian G.(Quote)
Jim says:
The last four cars that I’ve purchased new: (1) Pontiac Sunbird convertible; (2) Oldsmobile Alero; (3) Chevrolet Tahoe; (4) Cadillac CTS. My next car: Anything but a GM or Chrysler. I’ve always bought an American car and almost always bought a GM (my wife drives a pre-bailout Chrysler minivan). I’ll never buy another GM and may not buy another American car. Jim(Quote)
Tom DeGisi says:
Daniel is of course correct about union duties, and blaming unions. It isn’t the unions, it’s the laws which give monopoly power to them. This monopoly by government fiat is just as oppressive as the salt monopoly which Gandi protested. Yes, education is wonderful and we need to have teachers for it. People can die without enough salt. We need salt mines and people to manage them and work in them. But neither is improved by the addition of a monopoly by government fiat.
You can have your union, Daniel. I’m cool with that. But don’t force me to join and don’t call me a scab if I don’t want to strike. Don’t prohibit other unions from competing with your union. And if the School Board decides they don’t want to buy any labor from your union that’s too bad.
It’s all about freedom, which is the opposite of what the laws in your union state provide.
I never want to join a union. Don’t make me join and I won’t make you quit.
Oh, and BTW a bad union steward is just as big a pain as a bad principal. They don’t call ‘em union bosses for nothing.
Yours,
Tom DeGisi Tom DeGisi(Quote)
Daniel says:
A disunited union structure? I doubt it would work to protect the workers rights, safety, or wellbeing. In the latter part of the 19th century, most unions were competitive. They worked for their membership and cut the throats of the other unions. In the end, this served the membership of no unions. It wasn’t until the radicals (socialists mainly) came in and worked to create an amalgamated industrial union that the union was able to gain anything for the membership. The original unions were Jim Crow (no blacks among others). The socialists were able to show that the unions would not be any good for any worker unless they worked for all of the workers. Considering the working conditions before the amalgamated unions, both in wage and benefits and in safety, I doubt that moving back to a task based union, or a system that you advocate would be acceptable.
My union does not require membership. Teachers can be members or not, depending on their choice. If they chose not to become a member, they do pay an agency fee to the union for negotiating the contract, but there are some benefits union members get that they do not get, and they pay less in Fees than we pay in Dues.
As for a bad Steward, being as bad as a bad principal, I don’t believe this is the case. The stewards in themselves have no power except for the power to hold the Principal’s feet to the flame when he is acting in a way that is against the word and intent of the contract. The steward acts as a break to the power of the principal. The problem with bad breaks is they do not CAUSE the car wreck, they fail to prevent the wreck. I’ve worked with Bad Stewards. I’ve been a bad steward! I worked at a continuation school once. We had 3 teachers on campus. I was the only member of the union on staff, so I was the steward. I would say that I was not very good, in that the principal was able to do a lot without my realizing what was going on. I was a poor break to the principal’s power. A powerful steward is unable to make major changes to the governance structure on his own. A powerful principal can. Daniel(Quote)
Daniel says:
Several reasons behind my getting a Honda Civic GX. First, it is the only car offered to the public today that will run on Natural Gas (generally $1 less per gallon). I could buy a used American car, that would also use Natural Gas, but I could not buy one new as they were discontinued. My car pollutes less in 100,000 miles than your car will if you spill a pint of gas when you are filling up. Compressed natural gas is non-corrosive, while Gasoline is highly corrosive. This means that with basic maintenance, my car should last 400,000 miles at the lower estimate. Also, CNG leaves no build up in the engine, so the car is more efficient.
CNG is less powerful than Gasoline, so the car has less pick up (which will be good when My kids learn to drive). There are few stations. They are generally about 5 or 7 miles apart, and usually 2 miles from the freeway. I have never been more than 20 miles from a station (I went to Bakersfield once). I can buy a home pump, hook it up to my gas main, and fill my car at home (and the government will pay me $.50 per gallon for creating domestic fuel). Daniel(Quote)
Dodge Pickup Trucks says:
Congratulation for Ford Success in the year 2009, But their is one more company who had a great performance in 2009 i.e “DODGE”, You haven’t update the Dodge performance. I have a Question is the Dodge leading the Ford?
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Lifted trucks for sale Dodge Pickup Trucks(Quote)
Mark N. says:
Labor law doesn’t actually require that. A company that cannot reach terms with its union that it finds acceptable can simply refuse to sign any deal, basically daring the union to accept its terms or strike. And if a union chooses to strike, the company may hire permanent replacement workers.
It’s true that a company cannot fire unionized workers solely because they’re unionized, but it’s a big jump from that to arguing that Ford and GM were forced to sign bad deals in the 1980s; labor law didn’t require them to sign the deals, and they were free to let the UAW strike and hire replacements on the open employment market. Mark N.(Quote)
bartdp says:
This family puchased 3 new fords in December, Ford outclassed everyone this time....when you have my family all agree.......its a major coup! bartdp(Quote)
Mark N. says:
Well, why does the company agree to such demands? That’s how contract law works— if your negotiating partner demands exclusive terms, and you agree to them, then you’re stuck in a contract with exclusivity provisions. The way to avoid it is not to sign that exclusivity agreement.
I agree there’s a certain tension between exclusive contracts and individual freedom, but it goes much deeper than just union shops. If I’m an independent candle-maker, say, and a local retail store wants to sell my candles, it might turn out they can’t because they made the mistake of signing a 10-year exclusive deal to only buy candles from the Council of Snooty Candlemaking Shops, which I’m not a member of on principle. Why is that exclusive deal acceptable, but if they were hiring candle-makers as employees, suddenly a different right-to-work kicks in? Why don’t I have a right-to-sell in the small-business case, too? Mark N.(Quote)
ChrisHo says:
Next year’s Mustang brings back the 5.0L engine. It will produce over 400hp as well, if not more than GM’s 6.2 ChrisHo(Quote)
Homer says:
Daniel,
Just to let you know. That attitude, both on your part and the part of the administrators, is why we homeschool. Both boys test at the 99th percentile, have many friends and get along with everyone from newborn through retirees so I don’t want to hear any of the usual bs about homeschoolers. Homer(Quote)
Shane Williams says:
Congrats on the FJ Cruiser :) You’ll LOVE it! Shane Williams(Quote)
egd says:
Unions came to power through extreme violence (or threat thereof) against management and non-union workers. It was those great “socialists” you praise who decided to engage in acts of violence against non-supporters to create their monopoly. Much like a government, most modern unions achieved their monopoly power by threats of force against their competition.
I don’t blame management for signing a union contract when under threat of death, I blame the government for refusing to prosecute unions for their conspiracy to commit these crimes against business owners.
I also blame unions for refusing to renegotiate the terms of their contracts when the business to which they are tied is under significant financial duress. Do you know whose benefits the UAW cut when GM was entering bankruptcy? Retirees, people who didn’t get to vote on the measure. But UAW active members wages weren’t touched.
The UAW created an ideal environment with their political machinations, help elect a progressive union-supporter who would provide financial support if things got tough, then make things tough for the industry upon which they depend. As a result, the Union got more out of the GM bankruptcy — because of their elected official’s disregard for the rule of law and property rights — than “secured” GM bondholders.
The UAW is a very dangerous organization and the Democrat party needs to stop coddling their anti-capitalist policies.
No, the failure of management is generally a failure of the unions.
Management can’t renegotiate wages, because any attempt results in a strike, causing significant loss in productivity. Then the union thugs harass and assault anyone who the management tries to bring in to cover the shortage. Faced with either a slow corporate death by high union wages and a fast personal death by union thuggery, most management will opt for the former.
Unions don’t decide which cars to build, but they do significantly impact worker performance on the floor. Bad workers aren’t fired by management, because unions protect them. Good workers can’t excel because unions need to make sure that everyone has a job, and efficient work means someone else is less efficient and might have to be fired.
Unions are the ultimate socialist experiment, everyone works and everyone gets paid according to the union schedule. However, they are destroying companies and the most successful employees are those who game the system to work an average of 3 days a week and earn over $100,000.
Good work if you can get it. egd(Quote)
GW Crawford says:
Actually, if you can bother to check your history texts, the Russians and the Chinese won us World War Two. Well over 3/4 of the German army was tied up in the Russian campaign and some 80% of the Japanese army was tied up in their Chinese conquista
And I am also pretty sure that anti-union Churchill may have contributed. Not to mention the actual US GIs GW Crawford(Quote)
GW Crawford says:
Oh, and if you want to buy a vehicle that has, at the very least, North American parts, buy Japanese.
The Big 3 American prefer to buy Chinese parts because they save money (the fact that said vehicles catch fire, roll over, spontaneously disintegrate, etc. is irrelevant. The Japanese car companies prefer better parts made in first world factories) GW Crawford(Quote)
Original Mike says:
I have two beefs with GM; the bailout and their apparent refusal to sell Saab. I’m a Saab owner who just received a $1k customer “loyalty” rebate offer from GM in the mail. As far as I’m concerned, they can stuff it. Loyalty is a two way street. Original Mike(Quote)
therut says:
I have 5 teachers in my immediate family. Only one remains a member of their Union. She has been scared by the “if you get sued propaganda the UNION will be there”. The others have the same gripe I do. The NEA supports Democrats, gun control, abortion and same sex marriage. What in hell does this have to do with their main core work. Like I said above if they would stick to their work place issues I could put up with them somewhat. But, the leadership are bat shit crazy. therut(Quote)
Tom DeGisi says:
Daniel,
Your reply was wonderfully genteel. I really appreciate that.
A disunited union structure? I doubt it would work to protect the workers rights, safety, or wellbeing.
Well, I’ve worked under a disunited union structure. Most people call them consulting or contracting firms. They did a good job of negotiating fair compensation for me and looking out for my welfare. I was very happy to work for them. Consulting and contracting firms who don’t treat their contractors right don’t prosper. Competition between firms and with permanent employees does keep costs down, but contractors are paid well.
Yours,
Tom Tom DeGisi(Quote)
Daniel says:
You won’t get BS from me about homeschooling. If you and your wife (partner) can handle it, if you are educated and able to find help when you need it, if you have the income from one so the other can stay home and do that, If you have the social background to keep the kids socialized, even though they study in Isolation, Good for you, and good for your kids. No one can do it as well as a well prepared parent. If you do not have those skills, income, etc, then we are the next best option. Daniel(Quote)
Tom DeGisi says:
Gentility still reigns. I love it.
We homeschool, and my neighbor across the street was a teacher in the public schools. He said when a home schooled kid came into his class they did fine with the work. He also said they were wonderfully polite for two weeks until they learned from the other kids. An important part of socialization is socialization with what. Home schooled kids tend to socialize more with adults, so there is a little less Lord of the Flies than you get in a big school.
Yours,
Tom Tom DeGisi(Quote)
A. Criminal says:
My Zaporozhets races cross the oblast more nimble as a goat, more authoritative as the musk-ox, and she is get 276 versta per vedro (vodka) — Be Taking Heed, GMC! A. Criminal(Quote)
Zain says:
Was going to buy Chrysler’s Town and Country because it fitted my needs specially with those fold into the floor seats but bailed out and bought a Toyota Sienna. Only the middle seats fold into the floor and the back seats are in the spare bed room. Some sacrifices have to be made. Zain(Quote)
Daniel says:
HA, My life!
I’ve been teaching for about 20 years. I’ve spent 18 of those years teaching at schools considered “Inner City.” Lord of the flies is what you get when you expect it. In my room, It’s more like the “people’s republic of Daniel.” Daniel(Quote)
Anonymous says:
Jesus Christ, people, what is your problem? All you GM and Chrysler bashers are just a bunch of naive closed-minded fools who just wants to make the other guys look good. I am a loyal GM owner and basically all of the automakers are in some position like them, especially Ford and Toyota.
Will I buy GM or Chrysler? Maybe I could say that I will never buy a new car, but that is all but impossible. Aside from GM and Chrysler’s venerable bail outs, Ford and Toyota had the largest recalls in recorded history; Toyota recalled 7 million for their accelerator pedals TWICE and Ford recalled a whopping 16 million vehicles EIGHT TIMES over a period of 20 years because of cruise control switches that catch on fire. Toyotas will run forever and Ford (and Mazda) has worked very hard to improve its reliability, but now I fear that they will be the most prone to safety defects.
Honda also delayed a recall of potentially deadly air bags in its 2000–2003 models for eight years, and I also fear for their safety. Nissan is junk except for the Versa, Sentra, and Altima/Maxima, which have been (and still are) excellent models for years. Hyundai/Kia make great cars, but some of their models are getting dated and they have a more limited dealership network. German cars are absolute disasters when they break down and Fiat (and definitely Chrysler) is by far the very worst auto maker in the world.
FYI: Subaru (they’re junk to begin with) is 20% owned by Toyota, Mazda is basically Ford, Suzuki is garbage, and Mitsubishi (also makes dog crap) is virtually going out of business.
As a member of a family loyal to GM for 4 generations, I am here to say that I hate Fords, therefore I will continue my loyalty with GM whether is Obama owned or not. Anonymous(Quote)
Used Truck Dealers says:
Hey loyal GM owner, no one is perfect OK. Why are you pointing all recall history of Ford and Toyota. What do you think that GM or Chrysler don’t have recall record.
Recently GM Recall about 1.3 MILLION Cars due to some steering issue. this recall will effect 2005 to 2010 Chevrolet Cobalts, 2007 to 2010 Pontiac G5s, 2005 and 2006 Pontiac Pursuits sold in Canada and 2005 and 2006 Pontiac G4s sold in Mexico.
Used trucks for sale Used Truck Dealers(Quote)
Dump Trucks says:
I am with you dude. I also own 1999 GM Topkick C6500 Dump Chassis Truck it is best for me. Dump Trucks(Quote)
SamSmith says:
I saw a very dashing & different small pick up truck on the road yesterday.it was called Nissan car. But now i trust that ford car is best.next car i buy will be ford car not a chrysler. SamSmith(Quote)