I’m still waiting for a definitive answer to this question:
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie-Pop?
Although the later has been examined and a mathematical formula has been proposed as a solution, the answer is probably the same for both – The world may never know.
virtually any criminal with a family and friends also finds those people punished when the criminal is punished. often in real life the family is deprived of its means of financial support. its just a matter of degree.
J. Aldridge: What if they made it a crime to be born on April 1, punishable by fine but provided for full due process?
Well, just like J. Chase refered to transfers of property from A to B as outside the scope of law, so would such a crime. So no level of process would be due process of law.
ShelbyC:
Well, just like J. Chase refered to transfers of property from A to B as outside the scope of law, so would such a crime.So no level of process would be due process of law.
I further think the judge would have to strike such a law down as inconsistent with the principles of common law, particularly regarding absurd results. Though the opinion might give the law credit as a well-planned April Fool’s joke :-)
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by tim gier, Andrew MacKie-Mason. Andrew MacKie-Mason said: If a Siamese Twin Commits Murder, Does His Brother Get Punished Too? http://tinyurl.com/yczgcjc [...]
This is not that hard a question. “I am a conjoined twin” is not a defense to murder. Accordingly, the bad twin could be convicted and given whatever sentence he is given. The nonconjoined twin isn’t a party to the prosecution and has no objection to any of this. The good twin could not claim any privilege from testifying, because there is no sibling, twin, or conjoined twin privilege. Because he is not the one on trial, no statement he gives would incriminate him.
If however, the state then chose tried to impose the sentence handed down by taking the pair into custody, the innocent twin could file a habeas petition on the grounds that he was being locked up as an innocent man. The logical conclusion would be that the state may not hold the innocent twin, notwithstanding that the guilty twin is validly in prison, and the writ would be granted.
If the conjoined twin A had prior knowledge of the crime planned by B, and accompanied B to the site of the crime, A is as guilty of the crime as B. I think A is a co-conspirator to murder even if B simply kills the victim during commission of a felony where A and B are both participants.
Just ask any stupid teen robbing a 7-11 with his friends, convicted of murder after said friends pull out a gun and shoot the clerk.
DJR: The good twin could not claim any privilege from testifying, because there is no sibling, twin, or conjoined twin privilege.
Hmmm, if the innocent twin refused to testify against his brother, could he be imprisoned to coerce his testimony?
Actually, could the suspect twin even be detained for trial? Wouldn’t there be the same habeas issue for the innocent one?
What about convicting an ordinary separated twin? What evidence could there be? Eyewitness? Nope, might be the brother. DNA? Ditto. Even their fingerprints are difficult to distinguish. The accused twin could just claim, “I’m Oscar!”
What if one twin commits a crime against another? Not murder, of course, but assault, say with intent to inflict a permanent injury. Or fraud.
In which case, the punishment inflicted on the criminal would be also inflicted on the victim.
A pregnant woman might also commit a crime against her unborn child – say by forging a will to cheat the child of an inheritance.
Mrs. Alice Adams is the wife of Bill Adams. She becomes pregnant on 1/1/08, and informs her husband on 2/15/08. Bill Adams, who was intestate, then rushes to his lawyer, and makes a will leaving all his property to his future child, in force 2/20/08. On 3/15/08, Bill Adams dies suddenly. On 3/20/08, Alice Adams produces a document alleged to be Bill Adams’ will, which leaves her 3/4 of his property, and only 1/4 to the unborn child. On 5/5/08, Bill’s brother John, who never liked Alice, produces evidence that the will she produced was forged, and also a copy of Bill’s actual will. On 6/10/08 Alice is convicted of forgery and fraud, and is sentenced to 18 months in prison. What happens to her baby?
Mrs. Alice Adams is the wife of Bill Adams. She becomes pregnant on 1/1/08, and informs her husband on 2/15/08. Bill Adams, who was intestate, then rushes to his lawyer, and makes a will leaving all his property to his future child, in force 2/20/08. On 3/15/08, Bill Adams dies suddenly. On 3/20/08, Alice Adams produces a document alleged to be Bill Adams’ will, which leaves her 3/4 of his property, and only 1/4 to the unborn child. On 5/5/08, Bill’s brother John, who never liked Alice, produces evidence that the will she produced was forged, and also a copy of Bill’s actual will. On 6/10/08 Alice is convicted of forgery and fraud, and is sentenced to 18 months in prison. What happens to her baby?
Alice would give birth in the prison hospital, and the child would be taken into custody of the Department of Family and Child services, who would file a deprivation action against Alice in the appropriate Juvenile court.
If all went properly, the child would soon be placed in relative care, possibly with Uncle John. The correct will would be probated, and a trustee would be appointed to supervice the child’s inheritance until he or she reached the age of majority.
Aaron says:
Does it depend on whether he tells his brother the police are coming or not?
January 7, 2010, 10:41 amSonicfrog says:
I’m still waiting for a definitive answer to this question:
Although the later has been examined and a mathematical formula has been proposed as a solution, the answer is probably the same for both – The world may never know.
January 7, 2010, 10:47 amgeorge weiss says:
virtually any criminal with a family and friends also finds those people punished when the criminal is punished. often in real life the family is deprived of its means of financial support. its just a matter of degree.
January 7, 2010, 11:20 amShelbyC says:
Well, this may be an easy question. The Constitution prevents the govt from punishing the innocent, but doesn’t require punishing the guilty.
January 7, 2010, 11:22 amJ. Aldridge says:
If one of the (separate) identical twins are not cooperative I would punish both equally.
January 7, 2010, 11:22 amJ. Aldridge says:
What if they made it a crime to be born on April 1, punishable by fine but provided for full due process?
January 7, 2010, 11:27 amDavid Nieporent says:
Who would win in a fight, Mighty Mouse or Superman?
January 7, 2010, 11:51 amseth says:
i believe conjoined is the appropriate nomenclature
January 7, 2010, 11:56 amDonald Kilmer says:
That would depend on where the fight took place. In field of a particular type of flowers — Superman. In a room made of Kryptonite, Mighty Mouse.
Next question.
January 7, 2010, 11:57 amShelbyC says:
Well, just like J. Chase refered to transfers of property from A to B as outside the scope of law, so would such a crime. So no level of process would be due process of law.
January 7, 2010, 12:07 pmMaureen says:
The question comes up in an Ellery Queen novel (revealing which one would be a spoiler), but the denouement of the novel makes the question moot.
January 7, 2010, 12:21 pmThe Michigan Difference says:
Perhaps this is why we should have the option of caning, like in Singapore … just beat the guilty one.
January 7, 2010, 12:24 pmSeamus says:
So who is it that’s finding the older term offensive, the Siamese community or the twin community?
January 7, 2010, 12:44 pmkdackson says:
I think a better question would be does the twin who did not commit the murder have to bear witness, or can he plead the 5th?
January 7, 2010, 12:54 pmEd says:
Well, there is always Mark Twain’s “solution”, at the end of chapter 10 of Pudd’nhead Wilson.
January 7, 2010, 12:59 pmMartinned says:
That sounds about right.
January 7, 2010, 1:05 pmChris Travers says:
I believe we call them the Thai community….
But the answer to your question should be obvious. Clearly the community of Siamese cats is deeply offended by being compared to conjoined twins.
January 7, 2010, 1:47 pmSyd Henderson says:
I don’t know. How did they resolve it in the Hilton Twins’ movie Chained for Life?
January 7, 2010, 2:08 pmJiffy says:
Damn! Ed beat me to Pudd’nhead Wilson.
January 7, 2010, 2:14 pmChris Travers says:
I further think the judge would have to strike such a law down as inconsistent with the principles of common law, particularly regarding absurd results. Though the opinion might give the law credit as a well-planned April Fool’s joke :-)
January 7, 2010, 2:29 pmjcm says:
Kdackson is right. The question is not answered in the article. They did talk about the non guilty as witness
January 7, 2010, 2:43 pmDazedAndConfused says:
I am suprised that the ‘accessory’ jokes haven’t started.
January 7, 2010, 2:47 pmTweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » If a Siamese Twin Commits Murder, Does His Brother Get Punished Too? -- Topsy.com says:
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by tim gier, Andrew MacKie-Mason. Andrew MacKie-Mason said: If a Siamese Twin Commits Murder, Does His Brother Get Punished Too? http://tinyurl.com/yczgcjc [...]
January 7, 2010, 3:07 pmWest Penn says:
Another apt proposition related to this line of example would be to replace the twin with a person who has a diagnosis of multiple personalities.
January 7, 2010, 5:22 pmWest Penn says:
That should be twins.
January 7, 2010, 5:24 pmDJR says:
This is not that hard a question. “I am a conjoined twin” is not a defense to murder. Accordingly, the bad twin could be convicted and given whatever sentence he is given. The nonconjoined twin isn’t a party to the prosecution and has no objection to any of this. The good twin could not claim any privilege from testifying, because there is no sibling, twin, or conjoined twin privilege. Because he is not the one on trial, no statement he gives would incriminate him.
If however, the state then chose tried to impose the sentence handed down by taking the pair into custody, the innocent twin could file a habeas petition on the grounds that he was being locked up as an innocent man. The logical conclusion would be that the state may not hold the innocent twin, notwithstanding that the guilty twin is validly in prison, and the writ would be granted.
January 7, 2010, 5:26 pmMikee says:
If the conjoined twin A had prior knowledge of the crime planned by B, and accompanied B to the site of the crime, A is as guilty of the crime as B. I think A is a co-conspirator to murder even if B simply kills the victim during commission of a felony where A and B are both participants.
Just ask any stupid teen robbing a 7-11 with his friends, convicted of murder after said friends pull out a gun and shoot the clerk.
Conjoined is a red herring here.
January 7, 2010, 6:27 pmMikee says:
Re: Mighty Mouse and Superman, who would win in a fight?
Depends on the enemy one or the other is fighting against.
Mighty Mouse would likely surprise the heck out of Lex Luthor, whereas Superman has had problems with him in the past.
January 7, 2010, 6:30 pmMalvolio says:
Hmmm, if the innocent twin refused to testify against his brother, could he be imprisoned to coerce his testimony?
Actually, could the suspect twin even be detained for trial? Wouldn’t there be the same habeas issue for the innocent one?
What about convicting an ordinary separated twin? What evidence could there be? Eyewitness? Nope, might be the brother. DNA? Ditto. Even their fingerprints are difficult to distinguish. The accused twin could just claim, “I’m Oscar!”
“.. dot com.”
January 7, 2010, 6:30 pmRich Rostrom says:
What if one twin commits a crime against another? Not murder, of course, but assault, say with intent to inflict a permanent injury. Or fraud.
In which case, the punishment inflicted on the criminal would be also inflicted on the victim.
A pregnant woman might also commit a crime against her unborn child – say by forging a will to cheat the child of an inheritance.
Mrs. Alice Adams is the wife of Bill Adams. She becomes pregnant on 1/1/08, and informs her husband on 2/15/08. Bill Adams, who was intestate, then rushes to his lawyer, and makes a will leaving all his property to his future child, in force 2/20/08. On 3/15/08, Bill Adams dies suddenly. On 3/20/08, Alice Adams produces a document alleged to be Bill Adams’ will, which leaves her 3/4 of his property, and only 1/4 to the unborn child. On 5/5/08, Bill’s brother John, who never liked Alice, produces evidence that the will she produced was forged, and also a copy of Bill’s actual will. On 6/10/08 Alice is convicted of forgery and fraud, and is sentenced to 18 months in prison. What happens to her baby?
January 7, 2010, 7:49 pmParalegal Los Angeles says:
What about Persian quadruplets in Beverly Hills at LegalNoodle.
January 7, 2010, 8:10 pmA T Garvin says:
They didn’t resolve it. That was the whole gimmick at the sucky end of the movie… it left the viewer to decide.
January 8, 2010, 12:00 amMaryanna says:
Alice would give birth in the prison hospital, and the child would be taken into custody of the Department of Family and Child services, who would file a deprivation action against Alice in the appropriate Juvenile court.
If all went properly, the child would soon be placed in relative care, possibly with Uncle John. The correct will would be probated, and a trustee would be appointed to supervice the child’s inheritance until he or she reached the age of majority.
January 8, 2010, 10:11 amphillwv says:
Not if the brother is the victim. Facetious, I know. Was that in any lit ref above?
January 9, 2010, 1:35 pm