Pat Robertson recently blamed the Haiti earthquake on a pact with the devil that the Haitians supposedly made in the early 19th century:
Pat Robertson, the evangelical Christian who once suggested God was punishing Americans with Hurricane Katrina, says a “pact to the devil” brought on the devastating earthquake in Haiti.
Officials fear more than 100,000 people have died as a result of Tuesday’s 7.0-magnitude earthquake in Haiti.
Robertson, the host of the “700 Club,” blamed the tragedy on something that “happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it.”
The Haitians “were under the heel of the French. You know, Napoleon III and whatever,” Robertson said on his broadcast Wednesday. “And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, ‘We will serve you if you will get us free from the French.’ True story. And so, the devil said, ‘OK, it’s a deal.’ ”
Native Haitians defeated French colonists in 1804 and declared independence.
“You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other.”
It seems that Robertson has learned nothing from the outcry generated by his 2001 comments endorsing Jerry Falwell’s claim that the 9/11 attacks were a punishment that God inflicted on America because of “the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, [and] People For the American Way.”
In addition to blaming this tragedy on a wholly fictitious pact with the devil, Robertson also confused Napoleon I (the French ruler the Haitians actually rebelled against in the early 1800s), with his nephew Napoleon III, whose reign didn’t start until 1852.
As a fellow Yale Law School graduate, I’d have to say that the Reverend Robertson isn’t one of our alma mater’s more impressive products.
Sun Tzu's Nephew says:
And we pay attention to demented idiots because?????
January 13, 2010, 9:56 pmSuperSkeptic says:
The worst part of it is some people actually listen to this man and form their opinions from his.
January 13, 2010, 9:59 pmChris Travers says:
I think he is pretty funny. Ever since his “I didn’t mean assassinate Chavez. I meant take him out” comment.
Take him out? To dinner? On a date? What?
January 13, 2010, 10:03 pmIlya Somin says:
And we pay attention to demented idiots because?????
Because he has millions of viewers and fans. I wouldn’t bother pointing out his idiocy if he were just an obscure crank.
January 13, 2010, 10:03 pmBlue says:
Is it possible that Robertson is actually nothing but a REAL con man? I mean, how else to explain this?
January 13, 2010, 10:06 pmAndrew says:
Tragedies like this often bring out the sketchiest of characters. ABC News is reporting that scam artists are posing as relief groups in order to steal the money of donors.
If you’d like to donate toward Haitian earthquake relief, the American Institute of Philanthropy lists reputable organizations that you can confidently donate to.
January 13, 2010, 10:07 pmObserver says:
Well, I don’t think this is worst than many of the things Rev. Wright said, and it’s safe to say no one from his church will ever be president.
January 13, 2010, 10:10 pmIlya Somin says:
Well, I don’t think this is worst than many of the things Rev. Wright said
True, perhaps. But that in no way justifies Robertson.
January 13, 2010, 10:15 pmNI says:
I want to know how soon the Phelpses show up with signs saying “God hates Haiti”.
January 13, 2010, 10:20 pmElliot says:
Maybe we should be charitable and apply the Jimmy Carter rule. Just smile and nod at these ourbursts.
January 13, 2010, 10:29 pmDave N. says:
As a fairly conservative commentator here, I have but one thing to say:
Robertson is an idiot. Period. End of discussion.
January 13, 2010, 10:30 pmGeorge says:
I wonder if Professor Somin will highlight the abortionist who declared that the Haitians should “Stew in Their Own Juices” for Having High Population, with a screaming headline.
Or does only Pat Robertson deserve a headline?
January 13, 2010, 10:34 pmbyomtov says:
Well, I don’t think this is worst than many of the things Rev. Wright said, and it’s safe to say no one from his church will ever be president.
Maybe not president, but governor of Virginia, certainly.
January 13, 2010, 10:39 pmBill Poser says:
I take the continued existence of Pat Robertson to be proof positive of the non-existence of a benevolent omnipotent god.
January 13, 2010, 10:40 pmDanInAustin says:
Is there a legal issue with him saying someone should assassinate chavez?
January 13, 2010, 10:41 pmIlya Somin says:
I wonder if Professor Somin will highlight the abortionist who declared that the Haitians should “Stew in Their Own Juices” for Having High Population, with a screaming headline.
IF this person were anywhere near as prominent as Robertson, maybe I would.
January 13, 2010, 10:41 pmMark Field says:
Since Yale’s list of graduates includes John C. Calhoun, even Pat Robertson seems unlikely to be at the very bottom of the barrel.
January 13, 2010, 10:42 pmsubstancep says:
Thanks for those links Andrew. I donated to Direct Relief International, which is a reputable charity and has received good AIP grades in the past, but it’s not on that list for some reason.
January 13, 2010, 10:47 pmAnderson says:
18 comments and only one retard. My faith in human nature is somewhat bolstered.
January 13, 2010, 11:01 pmv says:
Don’t be so hard on yourself, Anderson.
January 13, 2010, 11:06 pmChris Travers says:
No legal issue. You see, in the United States, we have this thing called the First Amendment which protects advocacy in the abstract regardless of the subject of advocacy. But his backpedalling was really, really funny…..
January 13, 2010, 11:09 pmWill says:
To be fair to Pat Robertson, Ilya did take this out of context by leaving out the rest of his remarks, which showed genuine concern for the Haitians and asking for prayer.
What bothers me most about Robertson’s remarks is that he blames the plight of the Haitians on superstition and not on the country’s real problems — bad economic policies, rampant corruption, a dictatorial government, and the general absence of the rule of law.
January 13, 2010, 11:10 pmIlya Somin says:
To be fair to Pat Robertson, Ilya did take this out of context by leaving out the rest of his remarks, which showed genuine concern for the Haitians and asking for prayer.
I don’t think that in any way mitigates the idiocy of the part I did quote, anymore than similar statements of concern at the time of 9/11 mitigate what he said then.
January 13, 2010, 11:13 pm11-B.2O/B4 says:
Ahh, freedom of speech, such a wonderful thing. It means people like Robertson get to spout this idiocy. To be fair (since that seams to be the popular caveat), I guess he’s not calling on his listeners to actually slaughter Haitians, so he’s still a step up the moral chain from islamists, but that’s slim comfort. All I can hope for is that something really bizarre happens to him so that we can all claim it was god’s punishment for his stupidity.
January 13, 2010, 11:16 pmgeokstr says:
No, he was talking about a member of Wright’s church, who did manage to somehow trick enough people into getting elected president.
And as a conservative, I too think statements like Robertson’s are off the wall and out to lunch. That enemy of our enemy stuff is sometimes hard to swallow when it comes to people like that.
But then, the left has its own problematic members in its coalition too.
January 13, 2010, 11:22 pmMalvolio says:
I think that’s the beginning of the discussion. How is it that an idiot, which, yes, he plainly is, has managed to occupy such a prominent position in American life, which more intelligent people like, well, myself and probably Dave too, spend our days not even writing our own blogs, just commenting on other people’s?
January 13, 2010, 11:24 pmsubstancep says:
“IF this person were anywhere near as prominent as Robertson, maybe I would.”
And IF those comments weren’t made years ago, instead of very recently like Roberton’s comments.
Will, you forgot to mention all the external forces that have been keeping Haiti down as well.
January 13, 2010, 11:24 pmrpt says:
Remember how Regency grads and lawyers were in the last administration…..
January 13, 2010, 11:30 pmGulf Coast Bandit says:
As a fellow member of the Washington and Lee U. community (I won’t be an alum for 1.5 more years), Pat, please hush and be civil.
(Robertson did his undergrad here…)
January 13, 2010, 11:31 pmAdam says:
This from Robertson’s Website:
CBN.com – VIRGINIA BEACH, Va., January 13, 2010 –On today’s The 700 Club, during a segment about the devastation, suffering and humanitarian effort that is needed in Haiti, Dr. Robertson also spoke about Haiti’s history. His comments were based on the widely-discussed 1791 slave rebellion led by Boukman Dutty at Bois Caiman, where the slaves allegedly made a famous pact with the devil in exchange for victory over the French. This history, combined with the horrible state of the country, has led countless scholars and religious figures over the centuries to believe the country is cursed. Dr. Robertson never stated that the earthquake was God’s wrath. If you watch the entire video segment, Dr. Robertson’s compassion for the people of Haiti is clear. He called for prayer for them. His humanitarian arm has been working to help thousands of people in Haiti over the last year, and they are currently launching a major relief and recovery effort to help the victims of this disaster. They have sent a shipment of millions of dollars worth of medications that is now in Haiti, and their disaster team leaders are expected to arrive tomorrow and begin operations to ease the suffering.
Chris Roslan
January 13, 2010, 11:42 pmSpokesman for CBN
Instapundit » Blog Archive » ANN ALTHOUSE: Why does Markos Moulitsas think oral sex is some kind of vice? “Shouldn’t a liberal … says:
[...] ANOTHER UPDATE: Ilya Somin: [...]
January 13, 2010, 11:52 pmInstapundit » Blog Archive » ANN ALTHOUSE: Why does Markos Moulitsas think oral sex is some kind of vice? “Shouldn’t a liberal … says:
[...] ANOTHER UPDATE: Ilya Somin: [...]
January 13, 2010, 11:52 pmMike says:
Those of you who oppose gay marriage…Well…Pat Robertson is your team captain.
January 14, 2010, 12:11 amAndrew says:
And for those of you who support gay marriage…Well…Dick Cheney is your team captain. Maybe we could settle it with some sort of contest between them?
January 14, 2010, 12:16 amSoronel Haetir says:
But then you would be cursed with fame. Personally, I would rather remain pleasantly anonymous. Especially if the price of fame were being known as an idiot across the country and possibly around the world.
January 14, 2010, 12:20 amRicardo says:
There’s too much money at stake for that. Between endorsing energy shakes, selling books giving investment advice and raising money for his “ministry,” almost any publicity is good publicity for a businessman like Robertson. To use Christopher Hitchens’ wonderful phrase, “Chaucerian fraud.”
January 14, 2010, 12:20 amArthurKirkland says:
What would be worse . . . that someone says this stuff about devil pacts and supernatural vengeance knowing it is rancid baloney, or that someone genuinely believes it?
I can’t decide.
January 14, 2010, 12:21 amCornellian says:
I guess the God that Robertson believes in doesn’t have any problems with punishing you for something someone else did 200 years ago who happened to live near where you live.
January 14, 2010, 12:25 amLarryA says:
Jesus did say there will be false prophets.
The Christian philosophy of free will often produces results similar to the ones we see with the U.S. freedom of speech and press.
January 14, 2010, 12:27 amCornellian says:
And further to my earlier point, I guess on Robertson’s view, the who actually made the pact with the Devil get the reward of freedom from the French (for whatever that’s worth), while the people who live on the same island 200 years later get the punishment. What kind of moral system is that?
January 14, 2010, 12:28 amChrisIowa says:
If it takes a pact with the devil to win freedom from the French, you’re in pretty sad shape to begin with.
January 14, 2010, 12:37 amAnthony says:
Part of the reason Robertson remains relevant (instead of being simply ignored) is because he says the occasional appalling thing that makes a good news story.
January 14, 2010, 12:38 amAndrew says:
There is some basis for believing that on August 22, 1791 a black man named Boukman Dutty sparked the revolution against France. Dutty allegedly said: “Throw away the symbol of the god of the whites who has so often caused us to weep, and listen to the voice of liberty, which speaks in the hearts of us all.”
It’s very understandable that slaves would denounce the religion of their enslavers. Dutty probably instead embraced voodoo, like many Haitains have done since 1791.
January 14, 2010, 12:42 amSuperSkeptic says:
It’s more Old Testament for sure.
January 14, 2010, 12:42 amorca says:
Robertson came in second in the 1988 Iowa Republican presidential caucus.
January 14, 2010, 12:58 amKevin says:
Will says:
I wonder if Max Weber would agree, or would he think that the (non-Protestant) religion and culture of Haiti have prevented its development? Of course to say Haiti’s plight is due entirely to culture (or entirely to awful regimes/policies) is too simple, but Haiti does seem to be in much worse shape other countries with a history of atrocious governments. Haiti does seem to have suffered more than most countries from a vicious cycle of bad politics undermining social capital which in turn dooms enlightened governance, etc.
January 14, 2010, 12:58 amYale Fan says:
“As a fellow Yale Law School graduate, I’d have to say that the Reverend Robertson isn’t one of our alma mater’s more impressive products.” — and you are?
January 14, 2010, 1:00 amArthurKirkland says:
That, and the legions of followers who fund and watch his television broadcasts, buy his diet shakes and other wares, read his publications, pay tuition to receive degrees from his school, and believe his tales.
If he were bellowing at a street corner, he would not be newsworthy. But this man’s delusions are distributed on basic cable in my market.
January 14, 2010, 1:03 amRicardo says:
Weber, were he alive today, might have trouble explaining Japan and Ireland, also. In the history of social science, Weber’s theories on the Protestant work ethic and development ought to be classified in the “clever, but falsified” category.
Worse than Somalia or the Congo?
January 14, 2010, 1:05 amzuch says:
Have you ever watched the “700 Club” and saw his “healing” ‘performances’? It’s straight out of vintage Popoff fraud.
Then there’s Robertson’s “vitamin” side business…
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 1:31 amzuch says:
… or infest a maladministration from top to bottom … not.
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 1:35 amzuch says:
… like Britt Hume’s concern for Tiger Woods?
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 1:39 amAndrew says:
If you had to choose between a very secular American who gives nothing to Haiti, versus a very religious and somewhat inaccurate American who raises millions of dollars for medications to send in response to the Haitian earthquake, wouldn’t you choose the latter?
It’s lots of fun to ridicule Robertson, but his remarks do seem to be based somewhat loosely in historical fact; the most counterproductive elements in Haitian society have long been associated with voodoo, and that faith in voodoo was at least partially a reaction against the Christian forces who enslaved the black population hundreds of years ago.
January 14, 2010, 1:41 amrussell bounds says:
I am 44 years old. I have studied end time profecy and revelations for 30 years. I agree with Mr. Robertson. We as a world have not seen anything remotelty close to this much destruction in ages. Read your bible. There was so much partying and other sin in New Orleans he aloud Katrina to try to get there attention. But it failed. he will still get there attentiom. We have not seen anything yet. He is getting angrier and angrier. Catastophic events will become more severe and more frequent. Then eventually the world will be destroyed. Then Jesus will reign over the new earth.
January 14, 2010, 1:50 amU.Va. Grad says:
Whatever one might think of Prof. Somin, I think it’s safe to say he’s one nonexistent-Hell of a lot more impressive than Pat Robertson.
January 14, 2010, 2:10 amIlya Somin says:
“As a fellow Yale Law School graduate, I’d have to say that the Reverend Robertson isn’t one of our alma mater’s more impressive products.” — and you are?
I never claimed I was. But all sorts of people can look impressive compared to Robertson.
January 14, 2010, 2:19 amTexas Lawyer says:
ChrisIowa for the Win!!!
My favorite part of Rev. Pat’s statement is when he says “And so, the devil said, ‘OK, it’s a deal.’” I mean, of course we can trust that the slaves who were revolting made the offer to the devil. But it takes a Man of God like Rev. Pat to verify that the devil truly accepted the offer. And, Rev. Pat did not just paraphrase the devil (come on, any of us could do that). Instead, he quoted him verbatim.
One question, though. Did the devil say “OK, it’s a deal” in English, like Rev. Pat says. Or was it in French?
January 14, 2010, 2:25 amzuch says:
Don’t worry. May, 2011 is right around the corner. And then we’ll be rid of people like you. The big question is whether someone will be legally liable for the damage their cars do when they are raptured up and leave the car driverless. Maybe we can join Regent University as a co-defendant….
Cheers,
P.S.: You need to work on your trolling skills. ;-)
January 14, 2010, 2:32 amNeal Scroggs says:
Interesting theology you have there, Mr. Bounds. Let me see if I have this right (sometimes your syntax is too sophisticated for my poor brain to follow). God or Jesus or some other Person of the Trinity dispatched Hurricane Katrina as a warning to those party hard types down Nahlins way, but the effort failed? So what does this do to that omnipotence thing you Christians talk about so often?
PS
January 14, 2010, 3:11 amDid you know the comment app has its own spell-check feature? I find it most handy. Just look for the wavy red lines next time.
NickM says:
That scenario is a contracts exam question waiting to happen.
Nick
January 14, 2010, 3:47 amMurgatroyd says:
Although it isn’t dispositive, I think the evidence is consistent with a diagnosis of AIDS dementia.
I hope none of you were planning on having unprotected sex with Mr. Robertson.
January 14, 2010, 4:05 amRicardo says:
It is a false choice, of course. The very secular American Red Cross has already pledged $1 million to the victims of the earthquake and is joined by many other secular institutions and individuals with no explicitly religious motivation.
Explain the part about how God, rather than the movement of the tectonic plates, was responsible for this earthquake.
January 14, 2010, 4:18 amA. Zarkov says:
China and Japan have suffered even more devastating earthquakes earthquakes and suffered them more frequently than Haiti. Did they make a pact with Satan too? Robertson evidently thinks people inherit the guilt of their ancestors because the current residents have made no such pact.
It’s not enough to simply disagree with Robertson, he’s prepared for that. You must get inside his warped universe and show that his own reasonaing leads to absurd results. I’m not sure we can do this, but we should at least try.
January 14, 2010, 4:21 amSuzuki Kaioh says:
His opinion isn’t so important. Listen To My Music & Heal.
January 14, 2010, 5:30 amArkady says:
Noble. But at the end of the day, the guy’s a fuckwit.
January 14, 2010, 6:36 amMM says:
Wow, Yale fan. Not very civil. I mean, if you want to defend Robertson, please feel free. But is the attack on Prof. Somin necessary?
January 14, 2010, 7:01 amRodger Lodger says:
“In addition to blaming this tragedy on a wholly fictitious pact with the devil….”
Thanks for pointing out it is fictitious….for a moment I thought maybe there is a devil.
January 14, 2010, 7:24 amTatyanna says:
I love the comment from ChrisIowa … pretty much sums it up.
Not naming names, but if you’re going to speak up and write a paragraph defending this guy and preaching about end times, at least use the dictionary.
January 14, 2010, 7:46 amgrog says:
Well, I don’t think this is worst than many of the things Rev. Wright said, and it’s safe to say no one from his church will ever be president.
Perhaps they don’t regularly attend his church, and never mind his own run for president, but try googling “pat robertson inauguration” sometime. Or ask yourself what a mailing list of 1.7 million politically active folks can do.
Demented or not, don’t pretend the man doesn’t have a great deal of political power.
January 14, 2010, 7:58 amGringo says:
While Pat Robinson’s explanation for why Haiti is the hellhole it has been for centuries may not be accurate, the fact remains that it has been a hellhole for centuries.
Come up with a better explanation and a better solution. Judging by the results of foreign aid in Haiti, it would appear that the foreign aid people haven’t come up with a solution either. While aid for the earthquake should be extended and will be extended to Haiti, material aid will not be the ultimate solution for Haiti. Some sort of cultural change is needed. While one may not agree with Pat Robertson regarding what changes to Haitian culture there should be, he is correct in stating that there need to be some. I suggest Lawrence Harrison’s Underdevelopment Is a State of Mind.
Disclaimer: I am not a churchgoer.Nor am I a voodoo adherent.
January 14, 2010, 8:04 amFury says:
Kind of a stretch to write that the administration was “infested” from “top to bottom” with the likes of Monica Goodling, but that is what makes VC so informative – the many viewpoints on a topic.
January 14, 2010, 8:04 amPragmaticist says:
Why do I suspect that if the French had remained in charge of Haiti to this very day that Haitans would have been better off?
January 14, 2010, 8:30 amWill says:
This Guys an idiot. He uses the word to dig into the offering. What a Bumbling idiot.
January 14, 2010, 8:36 amdearieme says:
Does CNN often carry something as stupid as “Native Haitians defeated French colonists in 1804″?
January 14, 2010, 8:42 amwolfefan says:
At the Matthew Yglesias link in the blogroll, he has a longer post on the background of the devil comment. He also links to a Tyler Cowen piece noting that there was something of a Haitian Renaissance going on (Cowen’s term) with exports growing and GDP growing 2.3% this year (not many countries in the Americas can say that.) The country also completed a peaceful (and essentially un-noticed in the US) transition from one Prime Minister to another a few months ago, and had elections scheduled in the next several months. While Haiti certainly had a long way to go, they appear to have been on the right track and making progress until the earthquake.
January 14, 2010, 9:06 amruralcounsel says:
It doesn’t look as if anyone here thinks Robertson’s remarks were (a) justified, (b) defensible, (c) rational, or even (d) very Christian-like.
Guess I agree. It would be nice if we knew how to marginalize our own set of religious a$$-clowns, so that we had a stronger moral foundation to stand on when we criticize the jihadist Islamic ones. How old is he, anyway? Any chance this is dementia or senility setting in?
Robertson demonstrates the worst aspects of our Christian Puritan ancesters…proselytizing, intolerant, superstitious, dogmatic. No wonder most sensible New Englanders headed west at the first opportunity.
January 14, 2010, 9:10 amlgm says:
Supporting the Republican party means enabling people like Robertson (Monica Goodling, `nuff said). How many people will go “Andrew Sullivan” over this? Who on the conservative side will finally decide that the negatives on that side outweigh the positives, the supposed principles?
January 14, 2010, 9:37 amFedya says:
Fred Phelps bellows on street corners, and he’s deemed newsworthy. :-(
January 14, 2010, 9:40 amGuy says:
To the contrary, Robertson has learned on many occasions that blaming disasters on a vengeful God plays extremely well with his target audience. He’s not trying to appeal to the sane here.
January 14, 2010, 9:42 amFedya says:
One could just as easily point out that supporting the Democratic Party means enabling people like Van Jones and Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
January 14, 2010, 9:43 amGuy says:
He claims he can heal the sick on his show, he’s a snake oil salesman, plain and simple.
January 14, 2010, 9:44 amAnton says:
“…I’d have to say that the Reverend Robertson isn’t one of our alma mater’s more impressive products.”
Agreed, though it continues to amaze me that you or anyone else pays any attention to him. In a country of some 300 million people, you’re going to have lots of headcases. In any case, more important people say crazy things that carry a way greater likelihood of affecting us, take Nancy Pelosi or Harry Reid for example.
January 14, 2010, 9:46 amM-Dub says:
Does this mean Pat Robertson has been hanging out with the devil? How else would he know about this “pact?”
January 14, 2010, 9:53 amJosh Adams says:
I’m not one to stand up for Pat Robertson in general. However, I find it odd that no one here questions the assertion that this was a “wholly fictitious pact.” There are a few accounts that seem to back up the haitian revolution having been very much related to a pact made with voudon gods.
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1573
There’s more details there from Eric S. Raymond. I’ve read VC for years and I’m really a bit discouraged by the fact that NO ONE (well, one person sort of) in this thread mentioned whether such a pact with the devil was historically accurate. Geezus. I was sad at this, that’s all.
January 14, 2010, 9:56 amGuy says:
(emphasis mine)
I envy your ignorance of the reality of his political strength.
January 14, 2010, 9:57 amGuy says:
I think it’s safe to say most of us understood the “pact with the devil” to be a reference to the presence of voodoo in Haiti, I’m not sure why that should bear on the amount of condemnation Robertson deserves.
January 14, 2010, 10:04 amJosh Adams says:
I’m not trying to address the amount of condemnation he deserves. I just wanted to specify that the statement “wholly fictitious pact” is disingenuous.
January 14, 2010, 10:11 amArthurKirkland says:
Yale Fan: “As a fellow Yale Law School graduate, I’d have to say that the Reverend Robertson isn’t one of our alma mater’s more impressive products.” — and you are?
In fairness to all concerned, some answers concerning Prof. Somin would be useful in assessing the propriety of (and answer to) Yale Fan’s question:
1) Has Prof. Somin ever described a horrific natural disaster as a supernatural punishment for a pact with the devil?
2) Has Prof. Somin ever claimed to heal the sick by touching them or thinking about them (while asking for mailed payments)?
3) Has Prof. Somin ever claimed, in connection with peddling protein drinks, that he could leg-press one ton (breaking, at age 76, the world record in that regard by more than 500 pounds)?
4) Has Prof. Somin ever attempted to advance his career by claiming, without justification, to have been a combat Marine?
5) Has Prof. Somin ever ascribed the world’s problems to a conspiracy including Jewish bankers, Illuminati and Masons?
6) Has Prof. Somin ever attempted to hawk a diet shake by claiming divine endorsement?
7) Has Prof. Somin ever engaged in business dealings with, then apologized for, a man who cooperated with al Qaeda and was censured by Congress for crimes against humanity?
8) Has Prof. Somin ever failed a bar exam?
9) Has Prof. Somin ever contended that American foreign policy should be controlled by religious dogma?
10) Has Prof. Somin ever claimed to have altered hurricanes’ paths by thinking about it?
11) Has Prof. Somin ever advocated assassination of a political leader?
12) Has Prof. Somin ever claimed that a supernatural being informed him about coming events, including the end of the world?
13) Has Prof. Somin ever asserted that the believers in a particular supernatural story are entitled to rule mankind?
14) Has Prof. Somin ever warned a city that if a business did not stop tolerating “gay days,” a supernatural force would respond with terrorist bombs, tornadoes, earthquakes and “possibly” a meteor?
15) Has Prof. Somin ever accused feminists of desiring to leave husbands, kill children, destroy capitalism and become lesbians?
16) Has Prof. Somin ever threatened citizens that a supernatural force would visit wrath upon them unless their school district abandoned science in the classroom?
17) Has Prof. Somin ever claimed that a supernatural force arranged a stroke to punish a political leader for considering action inconsistent with a particular interpretation of religious texts?
18) Has Prof. Somin ever suggested use of a nuclear device against a department of the government of the United States?
19) Did Prof. Somin ever blame America’s gays, feminists, opponents of school prayer, pagans and ACLU supporters for the September 11 attacks?
20) Has the attorney general of any state ever concluded that Prof. Somin employed deceptive practices in soliciting investments?
If Yale Fan, or anyone else, has any questions to contribute to the list — I certainly do not claim infallibility — I would welcome the help.
January 14, 2010, 10:16 amGuy says:
Pat Robertson characterizes any religion other than Christianity as a “pact with the devil”. I don’t think it’s disingenuous at all to call that “wholly fictitious”, to the extent that casual listeners will view such statements as being an allusion to some kind of blood sacrifice on a pentagram made in the name of Satan per se.
January 14, 2010, 10:17 amtyler says:
@russel bounds i have studied endtime prophecy as well and Revelation (singular) but you’re talking about something very different from the current phase of human history. the whole point of Jesus was to replace humanity’s debt for sin and replace it with grace. if God were still punishing people for sin why hasn’t a derecho come and wipeout both our houses (or every country for that matter)? I hate to call you out, but it also seems like the chronology of your events are a little skewed. (feel free to email me if you’d like to discuss.)
anyways, back to the post, Roberts, while I do believe he has good intentions, is a little mistaken and sure does make it tough some times to show the bible as a factual, historical and spiritual document.
January 14, 2010, 10:17 amJosh Adams says:
The story linked specifically refers to a blood sacrifice made in the name of a god of war.
January 14, 2010, 10:19 amsardonic_sob says:
But to him there’s no difference. If Christians were in charge, there’d be no corruption, God would be the dictator, and economic growth would be granted by the favor of Providence.
No, really. He really does think that. In Pat Robertson’s world, good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people. If good things happen to bad people it’s either the Devil messing with things (which He couldn’t do if people didn’t turn from God) or God raising up those He will eventually humble. If bad things happen to good people it’s either the Devil messing with things, God punishing unknown sins, or God trying to teach us something important.
It’s a very simple world and, I suspect, a very comfortable world to live in. I have many relatives who live there and frankly, they’re probably happier than cynical old me.
S
January 14, 2010, 10:20 amGuy says:
Was the god of war named Satan? Did the participants view themselves as making a pact with the devil of Christianity?
January 14, 2010, 10:21 amPhatty says:
What a nutjob. Clearly, the earthquake is a product of global warming, and if we don’t take drastic measures immediately to curb the output of greenhouse gases, we’re going to see an increase in these natural disasters.
January 14, 2010, 10:24 amsardonic_sob says:
Why does the fact that I agree with you make this an even scarier comment?
S
January 14, 2010, 10:27 amPaul Horwitz says:
I would like answers to some of the questions raised above. Does Ilya sell diet shakes? And if so, are they any good?
January 14, 2010, 10:28 amsardonic_sob says:
Well, that explains it then. God is still pissed about the whole deal with the Devil thing. As soon as things start looking up, wham!
S
January 14, 2010, 10:29 amJosh Adams says:
If you grant that he believes the other gods to be various manifestations of satan / satan’s workers – which is not a big deal to grant, if we’re going there anyway – then surely you can admit that “wholly fictitious pact with the devil” statement was not entirely accurate. I don’t understand the confusion, still.
You can disbelieve the story…but if you grant that it happened (as does the Haitian government, apparently) I find it intensely odd to call it wholly fictitious. Wouldn’t it be more appropriate to mention that such a pact – albeit not with the appropriate demon entity if you want to make the distinction – did in fact freaking happen, rather than pretending he just made up an event? How is this appropriate discourse?
tl;dr – The pact he refers to wasn’t fictitious. You may disagree with his belief regarding with whom the pact was made, but the pact he’s referring to did in fact happen as a historical event, and calling it fictitious is inappropriate.
January 14, 2010, 10:30 amdisconnect says:
“As a fellow
Yale Law School graduatehuman being, I’d have to say thatthe ReverendMr. Robertson isn’t one of ouralma mater’sspecies’ more impressive products.”FTFY.
January 14, 2010, 10:32 amtheobromophile says:
Silly theological question: how would a deal with the devil affect future generations? I can understand one generation that does it, but it seems silly to punish people who were never even born for something they didn’t do. Sort of undermines the entire concept of punishment, in fact.
January 14, 2010, 10:51 amzuch says:
Was it?!?!? With Monica Goodling as gatekeeper in hiring, and with her “qualifications” criteria (not to mention similar policies in other departments; see, e.g. Interior, and the Iraq fiasco), I don’t see that it was much of a stretch at all….
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 10:54 amzuch says:
I remember Robertson touting his wonderful DC-10 fitted out with surgical suites, etc., as the best thing since bread (sliced or otherwise) for the needy poor around the world. Ever try to land a DC-10 in, say, Tchad or Aceh? Anyone near enough to an airport that would land a DC-10 is probably not the one that needs help. The hundreds of millions for that jet could have bought thousands of field hospitals, tons of medicine, etc. It’s just conspicuous “charity”, not well considered charity. IIRC, there was further controversy on that DC-10 as well; a bit of a pink elephant and some shady dealings that might have inured to Robertson’s benefit.
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 11:01 amzuch says:
Ummmm … we had to go out of our way to specify in our Constitution that such shouldn’t be permitted. Can’t have been that obvious.
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 11:03 amPhatty says:
A deal with the devil has nothing to do with punishment — it involves repayment of a debt. The devil supplies a benefit now in exchange for payment in the future. The future generation may consider that payment to be “punishment” and also unfair, but consider the current arguments against the U.S. running up massive debt. People argue that even though the massive spending may provide a short-term benefit, future generations are going to suffer. So, our grandkids might complain one day that they are being punished based on bad policy from 50 years ago to which they never even received the benefit.
January 14, 2010, 11:06 amAmiable Dorsai says:
Nah, he is, as several others have pointed out, a quite successful con artist. It takes intelligence to keep fleecing the sheep for as long (and as lucratively) as Robertson has. The sheep he rips off, on the other hand…
January 14, 2010, 11:07 amzuch says:
I know you folks managed to grab Van Jones’s scalp, but I must have been napping: When did Obama appoint Wright to the administration?
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 11:08 amFub says:
Heck, it’s already been litigated, in the USA since Washington Irving’s The Devil and Tom Walker, through Stephen Vincent Benét’s The Devil and Daniel Webster. Although blues legend Robert Johnson apparently never got his day in court.
Texas Lawyer raises a key issue for defense:
If the Hatians of 1804 spoke no English, then there was no meeting of the minds.
January 14, 2010, 11:12 amFrank Drackman says:
I’ve thought Pat Robertson to be an Idiot ever since the 1988 republican debate when he pronounced the European Economic Community ,EEC, as “AY AY SAY”, didnt even have to here the bit about how the AY AY SAY was part of Gog and Magog, the 7 seals, etc etc.
January 14, 2010, 11:25 amJeez he made Dave Koresh sound like William F. Buckley.
That being said…
I’d take an Earthquake every 200years to having to suck teat to abunch of snail eating Frogs.
JRL says:
As a conservative, Bible-believing Christian, all I can say to Rev. Robertson’s comments is:
January 14, 2010, 11:41 amWhat the HECK is he talking about?!?!
Tweets that mention The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Pat Robertson Blames Haiti Earthquake on Pact with the Devil -- Topsy.com says:
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Elizabeth Wurtzel, Anke Bebber and Eugene Volokh, Eugene Volokh. Eugene Volokh said: Pat Robertson Blames Haiti Earthquake on Pact with the Devil: Pat Robertson recently blamed the Haiti earthquak.. http://bit.ly/5Omc2e [...]
January 14, 2010, 11:43 amsardonic_sob says:
Exodus 20:5,6 -
“… I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments. ”
Granted it’s been more than four generations, but the Bible is often a little ambiguous about temporalities.
January 14, 2010, 11:44 ambyomtov says:
One could just as easily point out that supporting the Democratic Party means enabling people like Van Jones and Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
Easy to say, but not true. When Wright opens a “university” and its graduates get federal jobs and start infecting the government with their idiocies, come back and report to us.
Pace Orin Kerr, not all mutual accusations are equally valid.
January 14, 2010, 11:46 amWht9 says:
Historically former French colonies tend to be worse off 50 years after the end of colonization than other countries that split off from other European countires. The list is pretty long and the economic data pretty strong. So that is one data point that separates Haiti out. Next you have the debt. 19th and 20th century debt crippled countries like Haiti (agriculture exporters).
Than you have decades of brutal dictatorship that make off with all the foreign aid they stole. Think of this like the private equity guys who use a portfolio company to enrich themselves. They go even beyond the initial debt load they pushed on the company. They take out special loans to pay themselves dividends. This debt load is now carried by the portfolio company, not the investors. When things turn sour the portfolio company folds and declares bankruptcy, but the investors keep their cash. In short, that is what happened to Haiti, not voodoo vengeance.
A brutal dictator took over the country, borrowed, stole and was deposed. Just like the PE guys, the dictator appropriated most of the borrowed money for himself. When the PE guys ditch the firm in bankruptcy many people are affected, including the employees of the firm, but the firm can go into bankruptcy and clear its debts and start over. Countries have a harder time doing that. Especially democracies coming out a this dictator cycle.
They have decades of debt piled up, but almost nothing to show for all the money borrowed (because it was stolen). They are unlikely to get any of the stolen money back, but they are expected to pay back what was borrowed by the corrupt regime. Like many countries Haiti has defaulted on this debt many times (but most of the debt is still there). Haiti ends up paying more to borrow now, and still has to negotiate to pay back the rest. At points in the last century, their debt payments have been more than 85% of the government budget was going to paying debt payments.
This doesn’t even get into the facts that revolve around Haiti being an almost entirely black country. To expect that Haiti was treated fairly in the international community in the 19th and 20th century, when open discrimination was legal in most every developed country is kinda of laughable.
Science and reliable data points do not have to be a boogey man. There are many reasons why Haiti is so poor. All of Haiti’s problems can be accounted for without having to invoke the wrath of God, and voodoo spirits.
January 14, 2010, 11:46 amSwan Trumpet says:
I share your dismay. As ill-timed and eccentric as Robertson’s remarks were, they’re preferable to those who worship at the altar of political correctness and submit themselves to a collective historical amnesia.
January 14, 2010, 11:53 amsardonic_sob says:
They receive the benefits of elders who need less financial support and a generally healthier economy than they would have received had the policy not been implemented, from the point of view of those who implemented the policy.
Be that as it may, Robertson isn’t arguing that the Devil sent the earthquake as “payment for debt.” The Devil loves death and destruction, but more than anything He wants to separate people from God. If the people in Haiti are not currently in God’s good graces, the last thing the Devil would do would be to punish them – He’d do everything He could to encourage them to go right on as they were going. Robertson believes that God sent the earthquake as a reminder that He still has an eye on those wicked Devil-worshipping Sons of Ham, and He still isn’t happy about that whole pact with the forces of darkness thing.
Keep in mind that when God got up this morning, Sigmund Freud was still in medical school, and He’s not even hungry for lunch yet. To Him the passing of a mere three hundred years and a dozen generations or so is not even enough time to count to ten and cool off.
January 14, 2010, 11:53 amChris Travers says:
Just remember: Freedom of speech means we can all know who the idiots are.
January 14, 2010, 11:53 amCJColucci says:
I am 44 years old. I have studied end time profecy and revelations for 30 years.
It’s always nice when somembody makes clear up front that there is no conceivable reason (other than comic relief) to read the rest of a comment.
January 14, 2010, 11:53 amChris Travers says:
I have no reason to doubt it, but it becomes interesting because one can never know in retrospect whether the gods were there or not.
In the words of Aliester Crowley regarding ontology of supernatural entities:
January 14, 2010, 12:02 pmSonicfrog says:
Wow. That will kinda suck for new Jesus. That’s like the time my dad wreaked his 79 Pinto, then gave it to me….. Thanks Father!
January 14, 2010, 12:02 pmChris Travers says:
On the other hand, you could read your Eddas and realize that destruction and renewal are cyclical and never ending.
This is the thing that has always bugged me about standard Christianity. The idea is that the world is fallen but that if we accept Christ in our hearts we should look forward to death since we will rise up again in a place perfected by destruction. This also suggests we should look forward to the end of the world and hasten it as best we can. That just seems deeply unhealthy.
My (pagan) view is that the world was originally formed as a hostile place which was lifted up by efforts of gods and men, but which will periodically fall back so that fire and water pervade the cosmos, only to have the new land rise again. Not only is this cyclic but it places on us the duty to AVOID the end of the world, to make this world a better place, and to live and die as well as we can. It is almost the inverse of the Christian view.
January 14, 2010, 12:07 pmgeokstr says:
Ah, but Wright has one of his “graduates”, with 20 years of his “schooling”, one who says he could no more disown the Rev. than his own typical white person grandmother, now in the most important and powerful position on the planet, who is also the same guy “infecting” the government with Van Jones and other “loony” Marxism-lovers.
As an atheist, and given that I think Robertson is a huckster, it still is a toss-up as to whether he or Obama could do more damage to this nation from that position of power.
January 14, 2010, 12:11 pmROBYN says:
TALK ABOUT IDIOTS — to all Americans who dont look up History!!!! You really should do your research and read up on the Haiti History because they basically did make a pack with the devil According to http://www.travelinghaiti.com/history_of_haiti/slave_rebellion.asp
they did. Below is a section out of THEIR OWN HISTORY
A slave rebellion of 1791 finally toppled the colony. Launched in August of that year, the revolt represented the culmination of a protracted conspiracy among black leaders. According to accounts of the rebellion that have been told through the years, François-Dominique Toussaint Louverture helped plot the uprising, although this claim has never been substantiated. Among the rebellion’s leaders were Boukman, a maroon and voodoo houngan (priest); Georges Biassou, who later made Toussaint his aide; Jean-François, who subsequently commanded forces, along with Biassou and Toussaint, under the Spanish flag; and Jeannot, the bloodthirstiest of them all. These leaders sealed their compact with a **voodoo ceremony** conducted by Boukman in the Bois Cayman (Alligator Woods) in early August 1791. On August 22, a little more than a week after the ceremony, the uprising of their black followers began
PLEASE GO TO THE SITE FOR MORE INFO all of it is very interesting!!!!
SO BEFORE YOU BASH PAT KNOW YOUR FACTS!!!!! OTHER WISE IT JUST MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE THE IDIOT
HIS WHOLE REASON FOR THE COMMENT WASENT TO CONDEMN HAITI BUT TO URGE THEM TO REPENT FOR WHAT THEIR ANCESTOR’S DID!!!
**** ALSO DOESENT ANYONE ELSE FIND IT INTERESTING HOW A HUGE 7.0 EARTHQUAKE WOULD DESTROY ONLY HALF OF THE ISLAND IT NEVER EVEN TOUCHED THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC COME ON PEOPLE THE ISLAND ISENT THAT BIG
January 14, 2010, 12:12 pmegd says:
I don’t really see what the big deal about this comment. He is expressing his theological belief, based on a documented/believed historical fact: that Haitians made a deal with the devil. His position is that anyone who makes a deal with the devil will be cursed and be worse off because of the deal.
The lesson to take away from his statement: don’t make deals with the devil.
I think this is really a minor issue being blown way out of proportion by people who don’t understand Christian theology.
This is vastly different from his 9/11 endorsement of Falwell’s comments that the terrorist attacks were divine punishment.
In this case, the act which perpetrated the earthquake was dealing with the devil. A fairly well established no-no in Christianity.
In the 9/11 case, the acts which perpetuated the attacks were association with the ACLU, NOW, etc. While many have political disagreements with these groups, I think it is inappropriate to say they are ungodly.
January 14, 2010, 12:18 pmzuch says:
Took us over two days to sail around it.
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 12:19 pmfrankcross says:
Out of curiosity, ROBYN, why the time lag? If a country makes a deal with the devil, shouldn’t God strike it promptly. Waiting 200 years probably means that most people wouldn’t associate the two. And why the heck didn’t Stalin or Hitler suffer an earthquake?
And I think the huge 1906 SF earthquake largely spared Oakland (closer by than the DR). Did God love Oakland?
January 14, 2010, 12:28 pmJoe says:
So god punishes people for what their ancestors did? God punishes people for an act of someone else? Sounds like a nice guy. Isn’t that called blood guilt? Isn’t that what dictators do?
January 14, 2010, 12:44 pmKen Arromdee says:
But anyone who believes in almost any kind of God is forced to accept that. “Why does God make innocent people suffer for the sins of their ancestors” is just a subset of the question “why does God let innocent people suffer at all”, which is a tough problem for believers in God and doesn’t go away just because you don’t believe God did this particular act.
And look at it from another viewpoint. If I drive recklessly, an innocent person may be killed. The people who made a pact with the Devil are the equivalent of a reckless driver, and the people being punished are the equivalent of the innocent who I run over.
Of course you can take the stance that punishing people requires active participation by God and being killed by reckless drivers doesn’t, but there are whole bunch of different religious beliefs about how active God’s participation in the world is. Maybe God personally approves each occurrence of physics in the real world and letting someone die from being run over by a car is as active a participation as punishing people for their ancestor’s sins. Or maybe God just set up the laws of physics and let it go by itself, but he also set up a system of punishment for sins and let that run by itself too.
January 14, 2010, 12:44 pmmooglar says:
I’d like to echo the commenter above who pointed out that the whole, “Well, Robertson said something bad, but would you rather he didn’t help all those people? If not, then shut up!” meme is a BS false dilemma. There’s no reason whatsoever that Robertson couldn’t aid the people of Haiti without accusing their country of being the result of a pact with Satan. The two things are wholly unconnected.
Unless the argument is that Robertson’s help is conditioned on his being allowed to make crazy, insulting comments without criticism. In which case he isn’t really a charitable contributor to the relief effort but rather an extortionist who isn’t really doing it to help those in need but simply to buy our silence.
Somehow, I don’t think that is any better.
January 14, 2010, 12:48 pmStrict says:
“one who says he could no more disown the Rev. than his own typical white person grandmother”
Yeah, he SAID this (not “says”). He said this BEFORE Rev. Wright made some politically incorrect (and wacky) public comments, AFTER which Obama THEN disowned him.
January 14, 2010, 12:49 pmKen Arromdee says:
Once again, you can compare this to other situations where someone does wrong and others suffer. I could dump toxic wastes in your yard and you could get poisoned 30 years later. Why does God let you get poisoned? Heck, he’s omniscient–why did he create the laws of physics knowing that 30 years later it would lead to my sin getting you killed 30 years later, when he could easily have created physical laws that don’t do this.
January 14, 2010, 12:50 pmSonicfrog says:
The irony is that God waited until “The most widely practiced religion of Haiti is Christianity. Haiti is similar to the rest of Latin America in that it is a predominantly Roman Catholic country with 80%-85% professing Catholicism and approximately 20% professing Protestantism.” New Orleans is also predominately Catholic. And the fall of the Roman Empire, often attributed to God’s own hand, didn’t happen until that region was shedding it dominant “pagan” religions and converting to Christianity. The lesson here seems to be: if you want your city or nation to stick around, and not have epic natural distasters, DON’T let Christianity become dominant. Way to go, God.
January 14, 2010, 12:50 pmSonicfrog says:
God is a reckless drive… I like that.
January 14, 2010, 12:52 pmStrict says:
“The lesson to take away from his statement: don’t make deals with the devil.”
That’s a very charitable reading.
The suggestions he’s making are that “The Haitian people brought this upon themselves. The Haitian people caused this to happen. The Haitian people deserve this. God does not like the Haitian people, because they allied with the Devil, so God isn’t protecting them.”
It’s phenomenally insane.
January 14, 2010, 12:52 pmlgm says:
Then there’s the fact that the point Wright was making (in different words) is literally carved in stone in Washington. Lincoln’s second inaugural address says that G-d should be angry with Americans for their history of racism. Of course, to know that, you have to listen to more than ten seconds of the Wright sermon in question.
However you feel about the possibility of divine retribution, at least the Americans has something to be retributed (??) about. But Pact with the Devil?
January 14, 2010, 12:55 pmSonicfrog says:
God is a reckless driver… I like that.
January 14, 2010, 12:58 pmmary lane says:
So I guess Pat is channelling with the Devil now…
January 14, 2010, 1:03 pmHow else would he know about that so called pact?
His family needs to commit him.
Mark Field says:
God didn’t bother with Oakland because he knew there’s no there there.
January 14, 2010, 1:04 pmJennifer says:
One of the major supporters of the original 1791 revolution was a Voudou priest called Dutty Boukman, who performed a ritual around that time to rally his followers, many of whom may have been Voudouists or would have practised Voudou to some degree. By most accounts I can find, a black pig was sacrificed, which means that the loa (not a god, more similar to a guardian angel or ancestral spirit) being entreated was possibly Ogun, maybe Erzulie.
Ogun oversees matters of politics, war, metalwork, hunting, but he’s not a god. It’s comparable to the way that St. Michael the Archangel is the patron saint of police officers, but he’s also not a god.
Some decent, well-cited information can be found here:
January 14, 2010, 1:06 pm(http://thelouvertureproject.org/index.php?title=Boukman).
(http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti/history/revolution/revolution1.htm)
Seamu says:
Calhoun at least was smart.
January 14, 2010, 1:09 pmStrict says:
“Of course, to know that, you have to listen to more than ten seconds of the Wright sermon in question.”
The Bill Moyers documentary on Rev. Wright is worth watching.
If you have an hour, it’s here.
January 14, 2010, 1:10 pmSnack McSnarkerston says:
My gosh, you wasted 30 good years on that? I would pray for your immortal soul, but someone else has preyed upon it already…
January 14, 2010, 1:16 pmJon Rowe says:
Here’s another great Robertson moment on Larry King. “Shhh: He’s a homo.”
January 14, 2010, 1:21 pmElliot says:
Wasn’t there another island in the area that had a devastating volcano eruption in the last 20-30 years? Anyone know off hand?
January 14, 2010, 1:38 pmAl says:
So for Obama, Wright’s 20 years of hate were just fine, but one subsequent wacky speech (in which Wright appeared to go out of his way to embarass Obama) was beyond the pale. I’m not sure why you think this reflects positively on Obama.
January 14, 2010, 1:46 pmStrict says:
“I’m not sure why you think this reflects positively on Obama.”
I never said it did. I simply rebutted the claim that “Obama says he can’t/won’t disowned Wright.” Obama did disown him; the commenter who suggested otherwise was wrong.
“Wright’s 20 years of hate”
20 years of hate…sounds epic.
Any more libel for the veteran of the US armed forces?
January 14, 2010, 1:54 pmWill says:
Please don’t use the same moniker as someone else. You make me look like an idiot.
January 14, 2010, 1:59 pmKen Arromdee says:
No, in the analogy, the person who makes a deal with the devil is like a reckless driver. The innocent people who get hurt by it are like the victims of the reckless driver. In both cases, God participates by making the (spiritual/physical) laws without which no bad consequences would flow from the act, letting us ask why God would do such a thing to innocent people.
January 14, 2010, 2:02 pmSonicfrog says:
I’m so confused!!!! :-)
January 14, 2010, 2:04 pmtheobromophile says:
On another theological issue (thanks, Sardonic, for the Exodus reference), couldn’t one just as easily argue that the earthquake was sent as a test and to draw the Haitians (and others) closer to God? After all, the idea of human suffering as a means to spiritual enlightenment isn’t that strange.
January 14, 2010, 2:12 pmkiwi dave says:
In 1941, just after the Germans launched Operation Barbarossa against the USSR, Churchill was asked why Britain was making common cause with Stalin. He replied “If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least make a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons.” (link)
So by Pat Robertson’s “logic,” the UK should suffer a devestating natural disaster in approximately 150 years.
January 14, 2010, 2:22 pmSonicfrog says:
You’re right, I didn’t have my coffee yet. But God could be like the bartender, who should just stop serving the evil drink. No, Scratch that. That would be Satan serving. OK, maybe He’s the bar owner, who would, if he had a conscience, close the joint when he realizes all the damage that his establishment does? After all, He does ultimately own everything, doesn’t He? I mean, really, why does God always get a free pass all the time! Who elected Him King???? Man, one could get a serious headache pondering all this existential religious stuff.
January 14, 2010, 2:23 pmys says:
Also, he went to Tapping Reeve Law School, not Yale law, and thus is not a fellow alumnus of Robertson and Somin.
January 14, 2010, 2:23 pmegd says:
If someone accepts this version of Robertson’s statement, why would Robertson then send money to help Haiti? If the earthquake is God’s punishment to the unbelievers, then Robertson should not be helping the unbelievers recover.
Suffice to say, I disagree with your interpretation. But I don’t mean to interrupt the echo chamber, please continue.
January 14, 2010, 2:25 pmStrict says:
“why would Robertson then send money to help Haiti?”
So…you’re asking me to explain why Robertson’s actions are inconsistent with his words?
Why assume Robertson is consistent? I certainly don’t.
“then Robertson should not be helping the unbelievers recover.”
Why do you say that? Isn’t that the whole point of evangelizing? To “help” the unbelievers?
January 14, 2010, 2:30 pmHarryEagar says:
NI asks: ‘I want to know how soon the Phelpses show up with signs saying “God hates Haiti”.’
Just moved on the fax at my newspaper, NI, though dated yesterday. It sez:
THANK GOD FOR THE MASSIVE EARTHQUAKE THAT STRUCK HAITI, LEAVING THOUSANDS DEAD, IN PUNISHMENT FROM AN ANGRY GOD FOR THE SINS & CATHOLIC IDOLS OF FILTHY HAITIANS. GOD HATES HAITI.
I am not inclined to follow Elliott’s advice to ‘Maybe we should be charitable and apply the Jimmy Carter rule. Just smile and nod at these ourbursts.’
January 14, 2010, 2:31 pmAl says:
20 years of hate…sounds epic.
I’m not sure about epic, more like sad…or pathetic.
Any more libel for the veteran of the US armed forces?
I’m thrilled to hear that you think so highly of US military veterans. I’ll remember that the next time the subject is a veteran who later went to work for Blackwater.
January 14, 2010, 2:35 pmStrict says:
“I’m thrilled to hear that you think so highly of US military veterans. I’ll remember that the next time the subject is a veteran who later went to work for Blackwater.”
Sure. The issue here isn’t how highly I think of veterans, but how low you think of them.
January 14, 2010, 2:44 pmkiwi dave says:
Whatever. We should give veterans respect and admiration for what they have done, but it’s ludicrous to suggest that being a veteran gives someone sacrosanct status for whatever else they do.
In the political context, it’s equally objectionable whether it’s done by the right or the left. The presidential campaigns of Dole, Kerry and McCain are evidence that most Americans don’t view military service — even of the most heroic kind — as some kind of trump card.
Tim McVeigh and John Allen Muhammed were veterans, and I don’t think people are too worried about “libelling” them, either.
January 14, 2010, 2:48 pmHarryEagar says:
Zuch sez: ‘Have you ever watched the “700 Club” and saw his “healing” ‘performances’? It’s straight out of vintage Popoff fraud.’
It’s not often I agree with Zuch, but he got that right.
40 years ago, I knew some people who were volunteers in Robertson’s then-financially shaky TV fraud. Here’s a true story:
A businessman volunteered his time as news broadcaster. One day he had a migraine and told Brother Pat he couldn’t go on air.
Robertson took him into a darkened office, knelt, prayed, placed his hands on the man’s head and declared, ‘You feel better now.’
And the man said, ‘No, I don’t. I quit.’
When Robertson was going to play the Popeye cartoons, he had someone go through and cull all the episodes featuring the Sea Hag, because the Sea Hag was a representation of the devil.
The Republican Party has a lot of ‘splainin’ to do about Pat.
January 14, 2010, 2:50 pmStrict says:
“20 years of hate…sounds epic.
I’m not sure about epic, more like sad…or pathetic.”
You’re right. It is indeed kind of pathetic that you know so little of Rev. Wright that you think all he’s done and taught stood for is “hate.”
When Rev. Wright says that America is controlled by rich white people, that’s not “hate.” It’s a generalization, yes, but it’s generally true.
January 14, 2010, 2:53 pmccoffer says:
“So god punishes people for what their ancestors did?”
Only according to that Bible thingie.
January 14, 2010, 3:04 pmStrict says:
“but it’s ludicrous to suggest that being a veteran gives someone sacrosanct status for whatever else they do.”
And who is suggesting that? What I was suggesting that a man who has dedicated his life to serving his country and community (I know that “community service” is a dirty word in right wing discourse, but whatever) is not just “pure hate.” That’s all the right-wing can come up with the describe Reverend Wright: hate. If you don’t wanna look any deeper, that’s fine…
January 14, 2010, 3:06 pmccoffer says:
“When Rev. Wright says that America is controlled by rich white people, that’s not “hate.” It’s a generalization, yes, but it’s generally true.
Funny how the scumbag Klansman “reverend” Wright didn’t say, “most every life saving medical treatment in America was invented by rich white people”, or “brown colored people are 40 times more likely to be violent criminals than white colored people”.
Wright is a scumbag. So is anyone who supports him.
January 14, 2010, 3:08 pmkiwi dave says:
I have no disagreement with the above, and have no real opinion on Rev. Wright. I was simply responding to your comment “Any more libel for the veteran of the US armed forces?” and the resulting exchange. The sacrosanct veterans meme seems to be more prevalent on the right, anyway.
That’s just silly.
January 14, 2010, 3:09 pmRPT says:
Goodling was the screener so her influence was substantially magnified.
January 14, 2010, 3:10 pmHarryEagar says:
Joe and several others say ‘So god punishes people for what their ancestors did?’
Yes, that’s what I was taught in the Baltimore Catechism.
Is it really possible that people who visit VC are unaware of the doctrine of original sin?
January 14, 2010, 3:13 pmHarry O says:
Just out of curiosity, Haiti is only 1/2 of an island. The other half is the Dominican Republic. Haiti has experienced nonstop tragedies for as long as I can remember, many of which are not “acts of God”. I have rarely (if ever) have heard of the Dominican Republic asking for help because of some negative event. Why the difference?
January 14, 2010, 3:17 pmRPT says:
There is actually many stories in the Old Testament to support the “sins of the fathers are visited on the sons” observation. In this case, from a theological perspective, Robertson has it backwards, as he discounts the consequences of the sin of slavery. To attempt to bridge the legal-theological gap further, the current leaders-people of Haiti are not the successors-in-interest to the original guy who may have (in the Daniel Websterian or Jimmy Page/Robert Plant sense) made a “deal with the devil” to help defeat the French. Haiti’s current situation is much more attributable to the intervening post-rebellion acts of outsiders, including the destruction of the Haitian rice industry and the recent coup against Aristide.
January 14, 2010, 3:22 pmStrict says:
“Funny how the scumbag Klansman “reverend” Wright didn’t say, “most every life saving medical treatment in America was invented by rich white people”, or “brown colored people are 40 times more likely to be violent criminals than white colored people”.
Wright is a scumbag. So is anyone who supports him.”
So you’re saying that
1. Wright is a member of the Ku Klux Klan.
2. Wright is not a reverend.
3. Wright didn’t say a pair of ridiculous things that you happen to believe in (by the way you’re racism is showing).
4. Guilt by association.
Nice job, I’m impressed.
January 14, 2010, 3:27 pmStrict says:
“Tim McVeigh and John Allen Muhammed were veterans, and I don’t think people are too worried about “libelling” them, either.”
Ah yes, comparing Reverend Wright to mass murderers. Classy, and logical too!
January 14, 2010, 3:31 pmptt says:
To the horse races, of course.
January 14, 2010, 3:48 pmgeokstr says:
Wrong. It’s “community organizer” that’s a dirty word, and rightfully so, as it’s a “profession” first begun by none other than that hero of the left, Saul Alinsky, whose Machiavellian ethics-and-morals free tactics ACORN and its hundreds of spin-offs and subsidiaries on the left were organized around. The intimidation, violence and flakcatcher mau-mauing of ACORN was a highly integral part of the entire subprime meltdown that coincidentally occurred in the nick of time for one of its biggest backers to get elected to the most powerful position on the planet.
The commenter would be me, but, predictably, you missed the sarcasm. Of course I know he dissed him, finally, reluctantly, only after he became too big a political liability. Wright was so important to Obama, his book was named after one of his “sermons”, he’s the one who supposedly turned Obama to Xtianity (hmmm…from what, Islam, maybe?), he baptized his kids, he was like one of the family, but he dumped him anyway after Wright’s bizarre appearance at the National Press Club.
Even Wright said later that he understood what Obama did by disowning him, and that he expected they’d get back together sometime after his election, so he obviously knew that the “disowning” was, like the all the other Obama promises, just for show.
But hey, you sure did “rebut” me. Guess I’ll have to consider myself pwned to the max.
January 14, 2010, 3:49 pmSenator Christmas says:
Would such a contract with Satan even hold up today? Under that alleged contract (Robertson has yet to provide proof, surely this must be on file somewhere), would souls, including those of your ancestors, be considered property that could be legally transferred?
January 14, 2010, 3:51 pmkiwi dave says:
Ah yes, comparing Reverend Wright to mass murderers. Classy, and logical too!
I’m not comparing Wright to mass murderers. As I said above, I have no dog in the fight over Rev. Wright. I really don’t know enough about him to have an opinion (although I do suspect that the media, as is their tendency, focused on a few of his statements wrenched out of their context). I was merely engaging in reductio ad absurdum to illustrate my point about rendering veterans sacrosanct.
I don’t think I am the one lacking in class and logic.
January 14, 2010, 3:52 pmptt says:
His other arm is otherwise occupied, emptying the pockets of the gullible.
January 14, 2010, 3:55 pmStrict says:
The violence of ACORN was a highly integral part of the entire subprime meltdown…ahh, crazy has never been more beautiful.
“I was merely engaging in reductio ad absurdum to illustrate my point about rendering veterans sacrosanct.”
Kiwi, sorry about that. You weren’t comparing them, so I apologize. But nobody said that veterans are sacrosanct. My point was that the fact that Reverend Wright voluntarily joined the US armed forces does go against the whole right wing “Wright HATES America” and “Wright taught Obama to HATE America and together their ideology of HATE will destroy America” propaganda.
“although I do suspect that the media, as is their tendency, focused on a few of his statements wrenched out of their context)”
Kiwi, you are right about this also. Catholic priest Michael Pfleger came to Wright’s defense, saying that the media could spin Jesus’ own words into hateful soundbites if they wanted. Pfeleger referenced Luke 14:26: “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.” KJV. Jesus was making a point about putting faith and God before all else, before all material things, but you see how easy the media could spin that into a “anti-family death cult hate screed.”
January 14, 2010, 4:09 pmBob from Ohio says:
Danny Glover, not a Yale law school graduate, but pretty well known, just blamed the earthquake on global warming:
“When we see what we did at the climate summit in Copenhagen, this is the response, this is what happens, you know what I’m sayin’?”
January 14, 2010, 4:20 pmLN says:
You may as well walk around with a sign warning about the End Times. 99% of the discussion of Saul Alinksy on political blogs is by conservatives. Think about this for a second.
January 14, 2010, 4:30 pmleo marvin says:
Wait a minute. That one’s true, isn’t it?
January 14, 2010, 4:32 pmgeokstr says:
Gee, what a coincidence! A leftist has selectively and dishonestly paraphrased someone who disagrees with him. Here’s my actual statement:
I realize that none of the leftists will admit that lending money to millions of poor people who had no hope of paying it back had anything to do with the subprime mess, let alone that ACORN and its Alinskyite tactics over the last 20 years to specifically force such lending had anything to do with it either.
But there are lots of others who do. Google it.
And I am old enough to remember ACORN and their invasions of board rooms and intimidation of executives in their homes and other slimy tactics for all those years. ACORN and its hundreds of related orgs have a huge overlap with the “New Left” of the 1960′s, known for violent protest. I could go back and find specific instances of violence by them as well, but I’m frankly tired of doing all the research that leftists demand, when all they do it ignore it, ridicule the source, move the goalposts or change the subject anyway.
January 14, 2010, 4:38 pmKen Arromdee says:
As I’ve pointed out, the idea of God letting the innocent suffer because of something the guilty did is so ingrained in both our concept of God and in pretty much all religion that the specific case where the innocent party is a descendant of the guilty is only a slight variation.
January 14, 2010, 5:09 pmElais says:
geokstr,
I didn’t realize righties knew what research was….
January 14, 2010, 5:14 pmleo marvin says:
The lesson I take is, if you’re an egg, and your surname is “Dumpty,” don’t name your first born “Humpty.” (per Ricky Gervais)
January 14, 2010, 5:17 pmChris Travers says:
Exactly why I am a pagan.
If I am ever to lead an uprising, Odin will be the god I would make the pact with, not the least of which because the blood and soul of enemies would be the price offered. It is nice to sell one’s enemies off to one’s god in exchange for help, is it not?
January 14, 2010, 5:45 pmzuch says:
Well, you’re right, they didn’t ask the Brits or French or Spanish for help when we sent in our Marines…. ;-)
Billy Bragg has this covered. Download the audio; that’s better yet.
Cheers,
January 14, 2010, 5:48 pmsardonic_sob says:
You can’t sell your body: Hell, in most states you can’t even rent it out. I don’t see contracts requiring alienation of soul standing up. The record reveals one case on point in American jurisprudence, “Stone v. Scratch,” but it was argued in an ad hoc court of equity and never appealed, so it’s not binding on anybody. But it is highly persuasive on the point that souls cannot be alienated without recourse.
January 14, 2010, 6:07 pmleo marvin says:
Which makes this a good moment to ask why you traded in your pagan screen name?
January 14, 2010, 6:30 pmTerrible Tom says:
how dare those Christians believe in their own Bible, wherein people get punished because of their misdeeds or else get corrected and thereby end their bad ways. The Old Testament is full of such stories/lessons.
But those darned Christians better learn that the ways of secular humanism trump their silly beliefs. But just in case there is a Final Judgment, we’d better arrange to have ACLU lawyers present. I’m sure they can argue God out of His positions.
January 14, 2010, 6:36 pmgeokstr says:
Duh-uh.
If I was using his tactics to gain power through intimidation, smears, ridicule, causing crises, etc, ad nauseum, I wouldn’t talk about it either.
But let’s look at some of your current heroes:
Chris Matthews, talking to Bernie Sanders:
12/29/9
Hillary Clinton’s college thesis was a paeon to Alinsky.
And of course, Alinsky invented community organizing, whose tactics were the foundation of ACORN. Obama taught ACORN members how to organize.
No, I don’t think I’d want it to be known that I followed his tactics either if I was on the left.
January 14, 2010, 6:42 pmArthurKirkland says:
As test administrator, I am ready to close the test; I didn’t expect any evidence that Professor Somin was in Pat Robertson’s league on 19 of those points, but I am mildly surprised the professor didn’t disclose his leg-press best.
Side note: When a journalist contacted Robertson’s organization about the world record leg-press assertion, Robertson issued a press release that confirmed the claim. This guy is, let us not forget, chancellor of a “university” that awards law degrees that some people take seriously.
January 14, 2010, 6:45 pmRPT says:
Duh-uh.If I was using his tactics to gain power through intimidation, smears, ridicule, causing crises, etc, ad nauseum, I wouldn’t talk about it either. But let’s look at some of your current heroes:Chris Matthews, talking to Bernie Sanders:
12/29/9Hillary Clinton’s college thesis was a paeon to Alinsky.And of course, Alinsky invented community organizing, whose tactics were the foundation of ACORN. Obama taught ACORN members how to organize.No, I don’t think I’d want it to be known that I followed his tactics either if I was on the left.
Wow, how do you feel about Cesar Chavez?
January 14, 2010, 6:55 pmRPT says:
Don’t forget to read the New Testament. There’s a reason it’s called “New”.
January 14, 2010, 6:57 pmLN says:
geokstr: Hillary Clinton was also the President of the Wellsley Young Republicans when she was in college — surely part of an elaborate double-agent plot to undermine the enemy.
I’m just saying you may want to re-think how the “left” can be both (1) a shadowy element in American politics that uses sinister underhanded tactics, and (2) more popular than the opposing political party, having won through the ballot box control of the Presidency and both houses of Congress. Lefties are deviants plotting in the shadows, while normal American Republicans can only win 40 Senate seats.
We live in a world of billionaires and millionaires, but in your eyes true power lies in “community organizers” who try to improve the lives of dysfunctional poor black people who don’t even vote. Get a freaking grip.
January 14, 2010, 7:01 pmRPT says:
How did ACORN get pulled into this thread? Now we’re going to get a half dozen self-referential posts from Hans Bader blaming the earthquake on ACORN (or the Philadelphia Black Panthers, or Bill Ayers, etc.)
January 14, 2010, 7:01 pmChris Travers says:
I decided against hiding behind partial anonymity. I might go back to it, but then I might not. I do post on most other forums that I am on under “Einhverfr.”
January 14, 2010, 7:03 pmR Gould-Saltman says:
Take a look at Jared Diamond’s “The Collapse” for an analysis, in largely environmental terms, of why Haiti has, well, collapsed, while the Dominican Republic has (comparatively) flourished.
January 14, 2010, 7:05 pmTerrible Tom says:
that’s the first thing that I picked up on, and so did a little research and quickly found that it has indeed been stated as an historical event. I agree with you that it’s disappointing that nobody cares about a blatant and misleading statement. Is the approach here: if we don’t like somebody then we automatically say he’s liar, is also an idiot, and that’s okay to do?
Pretty shoddy thinking. I wonder if the article writer will retract what he said.
January 14, 2010, 7:17 pmTerrible Tom says:
do you mean the one with the “wailing and gnashing of teeth”, and with “I bring not an olive branch but a sword”, the promised destruction of the world by fire, etc? Or do you mean the one made up in modern times where everybody gets forgiven instantly without even asking to be forgiven… and Jesus is of course a vegetarian?
January 14, 2010, 7:22 pmTatil says:
I believe Jared Diamond’s book Collapse analyzes the reasons starting from their colonial history and how it shaped the society in the two countries.
January 14, 2010, 7:23 pmChris Travers says:
I am not sure about that.
Is there anything that prevents cadavers that are preserved for medical school needs from being sold? If so, once one is through with one’s body is there any reason one’s body couldn’t be sold?
However, let’s think about selling one’s body while living. I would argue that this is something construction contractors do all the time. Indeed, if I pay IN ADVANCE for such a project, then involuntary servitude provisions in the Constitution don’t apply. After all the servitude is not involuntary.
As for souls, how could a contract be invalidated under the Fry test?
January 14, 2010, 7:24 pmElliot says:
Smile and nod. Then move on. Jimmy,Danny, and Pat…
January 14, 2010, 7:33 pmSteve2 says:
An event did happen, in which people believed they were making a pact with something. But since that something doesn’t exist, the pact’s wholly fictitious: it couldn’t be entered into by the wholly fictitious entity, so it was never made. You can draw up all the contracts with spirits that you want, but since there’s no such thing as spirits, those contracts will never be anything but fiction.
January 14, 2010, 7:38 pmRandy says:
Theo: “On another theological issue (thanks, Sardonic, for the Exodus reference), couldn’t one just as easily argue that the earthquake was sent as a test and to draw the Haitians (and others) closer to God? After all, the idea of human suffering as a means to spiritual enlightenment isn’t that strange.”
Perhaps. but the thousands of dead people don’t have the opportunity to draw closer to God.
RPT: “how dare those Christians believe in their own Bible, wherein people get punished because of their misdeeds or else get corrected and thereby end their bad ways.”
As noted above, the people who died in this earthquake didn’t make any pacts with any devils, and in fact are mostly Christian. What did misdeeds did they do to deserve to die?
But wait! I thought death was a GOOD thing. You get eternal life, and you live in paradise forever. So perhaps killing them and sending them to heaven was something God really wanted to do as a favor to them. Except those who go to hell, of course, and for some reason it was very necessary to hasten their journey. God sure does get impatient. But no! Actually, he is very patient — he waited over 200 years before he extracted his revenge. And so he caused all that suffering to all these innocents who remain living, because living the hell that is present day Haiti isn’t hellish enough for God. He had to make it worse for them. And frankly, I can’t think of a better way to get people to love and worship you than to punish them for something they didn’t do and make their lives much worse.
Clearly, this earthquake is the work of a fair and just God that we worship out of love for him.
January 14, 2010, 7:39 pmjcm says:
In the history of social science, Weber’s theories on the Protestant work ethic and development ought to be classified in the “clever, but falsified” category.
January 14, 2010, 7:55 pmThe most quoted economist, Scheilfer , has proven him right
The Shepherdess says:
So what will Pat Robertson say when america and the ally forces are wiped completely off the map in Doomsday 2012… who will come to her aid certainly not Shesus Christ..
January 14, 2010, 8:02 pmneurodoc says:
Well, a protege, Bob McDonnell was elected governor of Virginia in November, which could be a step in that direction, that is if he doesn’t stumble in the way that George Allen stumbled in his try for the presidency
January 14, 2010, 8:19 pmRPT says:
Randy:
RPT: “how dare those Christians believe in their own Bible, wherein people get punished because of their misdeeds or else get corrected and thereby end their bad ways.”
That wasn’t my quote and doesn’t represent my theology.
January 14, 2010, 9:01 pmorca says:
Group X got punished for Action Y seems like a fairly standard religious belief.
When did statements like this become proscribed speech?
The local news had a story about a Haitian boy who survived the quake while the rest of his family was killed. “God was looking after this boy,” was the reason offered up by the adult caring for him.
January 14, 2010, 9:43 pmNorthern Dave says:
I think many posters are looking at this theologically backwards.
From a Christian perspective the unusually rough go Haiti has had in the last 200 odd years would be a combination of the withdrawl of an extent of Divine protection due to they and their leaders rejecting God in favour of dealing with the Devil and their ongoing pursuit of witchcraft amongst the highest levels ( recalling that in Christian theology the Devil’s desire is to murder and destroy ).
The argument that Haiti is now a Christian country doesn’t wash as RC practice allows for the continuation of whatever local stuff you’re up to as long as you own them Overlord. Pay the Priest and keep on practising Voodoo is not in conflict.
In New Testament theology, Judgement Day is set and immutably coming. We are simply in a period where we have all been called on to make our Peace with God through Jesus Christ while His terms of surrender are still available.
Wife is calling, must go….. :-)
January 14, 2010, 9:49 pmSenator Christmas says:
Good point. I wonder how the Ninth Circuit would screw up the decision.
January 14, 2010, 9:55 pmleo marvin says:
neuro, from a distance, McDonnell strikes me as a lot more politic than Allen. But you’ve seen him more often and up close. What do you think?
January 14, 2010, 9:59 pmRandy says:
RPT: “That wasn’t my quote and doesn’t represent my theology.”
Oops! Sorry — it was Terrible Tom….
January 14, 2010, 10:23 pmRandy says:
Northern Dave: “From a Christian perspective the unusually rough go Haiti has had in the last 200 odd years would be a combination of the withdrawl of an extent of Divine protection due to they and their leaders rejecting God in favour of dealing with the Devil and their ongoing pursuit of witchcraft amongst the highest levels.”
Divine protection from earthquakes, which are the result of Divine intervention? So in other words, God creates earthquakes and God will protect some people from his own actions? And there are no real Christians in Haiti deserving of this protection? Seems like everyone is punished, both innocent and guilty alike. I have no problem with that, but I do have a problem with people saying this is the actions of a fair, just and loving God.
And again, if God just wants to punish people, why not just wait until they die a natural death and then judge them then, which is what he does anyway?
January 14, 2010, 10:28 pmRicardo says:
Isaac Asimov once made a very funny observation about Medieval Europe. For a very long time, Europeans were very puzzled at the fact that whenever a thunderstorm visited their town or village, it was always the case that the local church was more likely to be struck by lightening than the town brothel. It’s completely inexplicable if you think God regularly intervenes in the natural world to deal out divine punishment.
Then a wise-ass like Ben Franklin (and others, mind you, but Franklin is generally given credit) comes along and points out that lightening is nothing more than the discharge of electricity and that churches — being built on top of hills with tall spires and towers — are virtually asking to be struck.
The history of the Lisbon earthquake of 1755 is also interesting for this same reason. The earthquake features in Voltaire’s Candide and Emmanuel Kant came up with an early and quite clever attempt to explain earthquakes as the result of hot gases building up in subterranean caverns.
The point here is that philistines and con-artists like Robertson will always be about 400 years behind the times.
January 14, 2010, 10:59 pmrpt says:
Thanks. Orca, please note as well.
January 14, 2010, 11:00 pmorca says:
Noted.
January 15, 2010, 1:02 amjukeboxgrad says:
fury:
Bush hired 150 Regent grads. So it’s not that much of a stretch. And as a couple of people pointed out, at least some (and maybe many) of these people were put in charge of hiring others, which means the problem can multiply pretty easily.
===============
sun:
Because, unfortunately, Robertson is not just some random demented idiot. He’s the leader of a movement with close ties to the GOP. Those ties are reflected in many ways, like Bush hiring 150 of Robertson’s disciples. HarryEagar put his finger on the problem when he said this: “the Republican Party has a lot of ’splainin’ to do about Pat.”
Somin mentioned Falwell’s similar statements. People like Robertson and Falwell are warmly embraced by the GOP, even though they incite hatred and violence. McCain spoke at Falwell’s Liberty University in 2006.
Another example of the GOP’s ties with Christian extremists:
The GOP is quick to condemn fundamentalism and violent extremism, as long as it’s someone else’s. The real “pact with the devil” is the deal the GOP has made with Robertson et al.
January 15, 2010, 1:19 ambill says:
Pat Roberts only told the truth whether u believe it or not dont hate the messenger
January 15, 2010, 1:27 amSonicfrog says:
OK. this doesn’t happen often, but I’m going to defend Glover on this one. I think he was trying to reflect on the lag in government assistance When responding to natural disasters, not that the quakes are caused by global warming. Like many actors, he’s not proven himself to be very bright, and not very good at communicating when there’s not a script in front of him. JIC, I’ll have to listen to the audio again though, just to make sure I’m not wrong.
January 15, 2010, 2:11 am1040 says:
It boggles my mind to hear the drumbeat that Jeremiah Wright is poisonous whereas people like Rick Warren and Hagee say the things they say without a hint of backlash.
January 15, 2010, 2:16 ammethodact says:
Max Blumenthal makes some interesting points here.
January 15, 2010, 2:35 amjukeboxgrad says:
geo:
Naturally. Things got so bad that there were even people saying wacky things like this:
It’s kind of shocking to realize the kind of people who are in cahoots with ACORN.
That’s hysterically funny, given your track record of posting baloney and then disappearing when caught.
January 15, 2010, 3:01 amjcm says:
Dr Danny Glover, got 20 millions from Chavez for doing a movie about Petion, the haitian who funded Bolivar, the Liberator in exchange for the freedom for slaves( he broke the promise) and did nothing . Now he said that the earth quake is the result of … Global Warming.
January 15, 2010, 7:40 amIn Spain , a catholic bishop , who confronted the terrorist leaning priest-ship , erased his good deeds saying that the spiritual crisis in Spain is worse than the Haiti´s earthquake
The man can be a moron but is not alone
mattski says:
If you posit a supreme being with a particular interest in human affairs then you don’t have too much choice about how to interpret suffering. You’re kind of stuck.
Otoh, what good is a “test” which leaves a person dead? Or tens of thousands of persons?
So my recommendation is to re-examine the premise.
January 15, 2010, 8:45 amKen Arromdee says:
I’m not inclined to trust this guy, considering that in the article you referenced he misrepresents the Wright controversy. Apparently “all he [Wright] said” that got people upset doesn’t include anything about AIDS being a white conspiracy.
January 15, 2010, 9:02 amegd says:
I wonder if Danny Glover’s peculiar comment will make for such an interesting discussion.
Or maybe a more fashionable religious belief is acceptable.
January 15, 2010, 9:08 ammattski says:
egd,
It is not at all clear what Danny Glover meant, and his remarks were not clarified by questions from the interviewer.
If you think you know what “fashionable religious belief” he was expounding why don’t you try to make the case. Be explicit and back up your claims.
January 15, 2010, 9:21 amegd says:
I’m sorry, I was under the impression that Mr. Glover’s statements would get the same treatment as Mr. Robertson’s: immediate assumption that he meant the worst and hates black people.
Allow me to explain.
Listen to Mr. Glover’s comments, first he says “They [Caribbean nations] are all in peril because of climate change.” Then comes the money quote re: Copenhagen, followed by “we have to act now.”
Copenhagen was a discussion intending to provide a means for reducing global carbon emissions, it had nothing to do with humanitarian organization, response to disasters, or anything even remotely similar to what happened.
Therefore, any reasonable person hearing those comments would understand that Mr. Glover is attributing the Haitian earthquake to climate change, and our failure to control carbon emissions.
Even assuming the facts of AGW, there’s no connection between global carbon emissions and earthquakes. Earthquakes are caused by movement of tectonic plates, not by changes in global temperature.
Scientifically, then, Mr. Glover’s comments are nonsensical. However, there is one area in which his comments make sense, and that is faith based. If the sins of humanity (climate change) cause unrelated incidents (earthquakes), then the argument has been made that it is some supernatural, not natural, force which causes these unrelated acts to occur.
Mr. Glover’s statements clearly indicate that his beliefs are based not in science, but in faith, and environmentalism is the religion du jour that forms the basis from which he argues.
(That’s not to say that all AGW proponents are followers of an environmentalist religion, some of them actually do base their observations on scientific reasoning, about which reasonable discussion has a place.)
January 15, 2010, 11:00 amAdam J says:
egd- As one liberal, I largely agree with you, Glover’s comments are ludicrous. Perhaps he was afraid of the dangers of flooding that would occur with global warming, but that has absolutely nothing to do with earthquakes and its in incredibly bad taste to score partisan political points over such a humanitarian disaster.
Olberman (who’s a blithering pretentious ass in my opinion) and Rush (who garnished his comments with a bit of race-baiting and a despicable appeal to his listeners to not send aid to Haiti because it might make Obama look good) should also be embarrassed for politicizing this. However, I think there is a qualitative difference between tastelessly trying to score political points and saying that the disaster was condemned by God because of some random voodoo ceremony done 200 years ago- Robertson’s comments are much more disgraceful.
January 15, 2010, 11:33 amJen says:
Okay, but this is OLD testament. Thats exactly what Tyler was trying to say. God sent Jesus to change the way things were, he was sent to usher in grace. God loves every single person he’s ever created. Natural disasters happen, and will continue to happen.
“Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.”
–Matthew 24:7
If Haiti deserved this, then the whole EARTH deserves it. None are without sin.
I have a lot of beef with Pat Robertson, and televangelists like him. I’d like to hear them justify how much money they are making every year- yet begging you to send in money because they need it so badly. If you have your own show, you need to be VERY careful about your words. It bums me out that this puts such a bad light on Christians. But, none of us are perfect of course.
January 15, 2010, 11:44 amfirst history says:
Was the devil’s name Ardra?
January 15, 2010, 12:31 pmbyomtov says:
The lesson to take away from his statement: don’t make deals with the devil.
From the Haitians’ point of view it was the Christian God who was the devil, and the French who had made a deal with him. Who in his right mind, enslaved under terrible conditions, would imagine that the deity the French worshipped was anything other than the embodiment of evil?
January 15, 2010, 1:18 pmbyomtov says:
I’m sorry, I was under the impression that Mr. Glover’s statements would get the same treatment as Mr. Robertson’s
This is equivalency BS.
Is Glover politically prominent? Has he gotten significant support in Presidential primaries? Do candidates for major offices kowtow to him? Does he have 150 disciples in the Obama Administration?
January 15, 2010, 1:26 pmegd says:
I’m sure you’d be rightfully offended if someone said “Don’t donate to the Red Cross, their overhead is $0.11*/$1, donate to the Salvation army whose overhead is only $0.04*/$1″, right?
*numbers completely made up.
January 15, 2010, 2:05 pmegd says:
It’s not “BS,” but it is equivalency. If Robert’s comments are wrong, so are Glover’s. The issue is not whether Glover’s comments were wrong, but the impact they would have.
Notably, Robertson followed his comments with a large donation and a plea for others to donate to the catastrophe. I haven’t heard if Mr. Glover is making any kind of contribution, but I will give him the benefit if the doubt.
Apologies for the double post
January 15, 2010, 2:08 pmHarry Eagar says:
egd sez: ‘immediate assumption that he meant the worst and hates black people.’
Sorry, but I haven’t seen anything here to suggest that the anti-Robertsons think he is an antiblack racist.
Unlike his father, Pat Robertson seems OK on that point, which is worth pondering. Is it real or just politic?
Anyhow, I think Pat Robertson is among the half dozen or so most despicable public figures in America, both a crook and (very likely) mentally ill. He preys on the most vulnerable; he took a mentally ill woman I know for at least $50,000, all legal. It’s an interesting exercise to try to figure out whether his acolytes are just as obscenely crooked as he is, or dupes and true believers.
And another interesting exercise to try to figure out whether the Republicans who trade with him are sold or just cynically taking advantage of a precinct-deliverer.
I am of two minds about these things, but certain of one thing: Nobody who has any dealings with Pat Robertson comes off well. Talk about pacts with devils.
January 15, 2010, 3:55 pmneurodoc says:
I wasn’t even aware of McDonnell until the VA gubernatorial race heated up and the WaPo called attention to the master’s these he wrote years before at Regent, the one that was so socially conservative. He got past that, though, and hasn’t made any big waves in the short time since he was elected. As for George Allen, the Jewish (who would have imagined!) former governor of VA, he seemed to be doing fine politically until that crazy “macaca” business. That must be up there with all-time precipitous non-sex related falls.
(News of such local doings around here reach you there on the other coast? I thought you had plenty of your own to worry about there.)
January 15, 2010, 4:22 pmMark Field says:
There are random days when nobody in the CA government does something stupid. We like to take advantage of those rare opportunities to check on others.
January 15, 2010, 4:30 pmAdam J says:
egd – Bit hypocritical to get your upset over what Glover said but then apogize for what Limbaugh said. Limbaugh’s transcript speaks for itself quite well, your bizarre interpretation that it somehow has to do with competing charities isn’t necessary.
January 15, 2010, 4:54 pmegd says:
Hypocritical? Under what definition?
Glover is an idiot because he believes that climate change causes earthquakes.
Limbaugh’s transcript speaks for itself quite well. Government sucks, don’t give them money if you don’t have to.
Besides, it’s not like Democrats have ever politicized a natural disaster.
I’m used to the left labeling anyone who disagrees with them as a racist sexist bigoted homophobe, I am sorry if someone on the left thinks that Mr. Robertson doesn’t exemplify one of those stereotypes.
January 15, 2010, 5:27 pmAdam J says:
Egd- hypocritical under the standard definition… you take issue with the fact that the same standards don’t apply to Glover’s moronic comment, then apply different standards to Limbaugh’s comments. Also hypocritical because you make some bizarre misrepresenation that Glover said this was some sort of environmentalism religious retribution yet claiming that Limbaugh’s statements have been misrepresented.
“Limbaugh’s transcript speaks for itself quite well. Government sucks, don’t give them money if you don’t have to.” Riiighhhhttt…., I like how agree that the transcript speaks for itself but then feel the need to speak for it.
January 15, 2010, 6:03 pmmattski says:
“Any reasonable person”?
Look, egd, you have a hair-trigger judgement for opinions you perceive as “leftish.”
Here in the reality-based world we understand that a) Danny Glover is a minor Hollywood actor, not an influential radio host and not an influential “Christian” leader. And b) his statements, while not terribly logical, were off-the-cuff and probably emotional in nature. That is, he most likely didn’t put a whole lot of thought into them.
But, the interview didn’t go into depth and we really don’t know what he would say upon further reflection. We just have you pouncing on some fleeting remarks because you desperately want to implicate liberal thinking people in the insanity of the right.
So I call Bullshit too.
January 15, 2010, 7:04 pmChris Travers says:
Quite correct. Absent news broadcasters calling attention to them, the comments would have exactly 0 impact from Glover. Robertson OTOH….
January 15, 2010, 7:37 pmjukeboxgrad says:
ken:
I agree with you that it would have been better if Frank Schaeffer had not used the word “all,” but that’s a quibble. He was attempting to summarize the major complaints against Wright, and he did so.
More importantly, the important claims made by Frank Schaeffer don’t require you to “trust this guy,” because they are beyond dispute. His central claim is this:
Which part of that do you dispute? Reagan’s words praising Francis Schaeffer can be found here. Francis Schaeffer’s words advocating the use of force against the US government are here. Your quibble about Wright and AIDS does nothing to undermine this evidence. Why did Reagan get away with praising someone who advocated violence against the government? Here’s why: IOKIYAR.
==================
mattski:
I agree that it’s not clear, but I think he meant that global warming will lead to comparable disasters, not that it was the cause of this disaster. In particular, I think he was saying that poor island nations like Haiti are the places likely to get hurt the most by global warming.
This is what he said:
==================
adam:
Another important difference: Robertson is the leader of a powerful political movement. Glover is one actor. (I see that byomtov and mattski also made this point.)
But desperate comparisons are the current theme. Comparing Reid and Lott is desperate, and comparing Robertson and Glover is also desperate.
==================
egd:
Rush is backpedaling like crazy in a pathetic attempt to pretend that he didn’t say what he actually said. His original words can be heard here, and can be read here and here. He said this:
The callousness of those remarks is self-evident.
January 15, 2010, 8:41 pmdevils advocate says:
Adam J
So that the random voodoo ceremony in Copenhagen two weeks ago could have been the cause?
January 15, 2010, 8:50 pmjukeboxgrad says:
Oops, I should have included Chris on the list of people who have pointed out Glover’s unimportance relative to Robertson.
January 15, 2010, 8:57 pmElliot says:
Has Al Gore commented on what caused the earthquake in Haiti?
January 15, 2010, 11:34 pmCaptainchaos says:
Oh Ilya, the reason you find Robertson so odious is not so much his Medieval pronouncements of what ails Haiti, as the Christian relation he has with that venerable old gal Auntie Semite. Fanatical Zionist consistent with his dipstickpensationalism? Check. But that’s not good enough, now is it? Nope, it is that he believes in a Jewish-Masonic conspiracy which enjoys the support of Satan that is the sticking point. Even when a guy is in your corner, that just isn’t good enough, it never is. One must love the Jewish people with all his mind, all his heart, nay all his soul, or he just ain’t a good guy. Thought criminals, filthy little thought criminals! What is one to do.
P.S. You know what is the problem with Haiti (yes, you really do know), it is populated by Negroes – whose station in life is everywhere squalor and barbarism. Of course to admit that is in your mind the royal road to a reconciliation with the dreaded hag Auntie Semite on the part of the goyim, which is why you don’t admit it. An open book you are to me, my friend.
January 16, 2010, 12:05 amjukeboxgrad says:
Everything we need to know about you has already been summarized here.
January 16, 2010, 2:14 amCaptainchaos says:
Everything I need to know about you can be summarized as ‘a peoplehood for thee but not for me’. Zionism is racism, and quite frequently fascism.
January 16, 2010, 7:29 amjukeboxgrad says:
For some strange reason you haven’t mentioned (yet, in this thread) the part about the “colored races” and the “total racial destruction” of “the White working class” by being “submerged in a sea of mongrelization.” And about how the US originally “facilitated the flowering of Northwestern European Man’s progenerative abilities.” And about how there are certain things that “you White men … must know” about the danger of “betraying your own blood” and “pathologizing our own peoplehood.” Speaking as “a White man” yourself (link, link, link, link, link). After all, we need more quotes from Revilo Oliver, the famous white nationalist. So why are you holding back? You’ve already said enough to make Pat Robertson look like a beacon of sanity and moderation, so you might as well paste in all the standard material.
On the other hand, you could save lots of innocent electrons and just post a link to stormfront.
January 16, 2010, 9:04 amMichael says:
To paraphrase Jack Nicklaus, Pat Robertson plays a game of English with which I am unfamiliar. He seems, in part, to be making a point that David Brooks made in the NY Times, that culture matters in development. However, I am afraid I would have to make a pact with ignorance really to decipher that; since this would engage me in a boring task yielding of a trivial result, I’ll conclude with the appearance that (cat)Captainchaos has trapped his mouse(Ilya).
January 16, 2010, 2:44 pmCaptainchaos says:
The contention that human populations differ in their innate abilities due to their unique evolutionary histories is so obvious as to be self-evident – and there is every bit of scientific evidence to prove just that. The history of Jewish subversion – and in the case of Bolshevism outright Jewish sadism and butchery to the tune of tens of millions (put that in your Holocaust pipe and smoke it, why don’t you?!) – but for which White people would not now be facing genetic oblivion can likewise only be denied in outright dismissal of the facts. That you do not want to hear it, that you have been given the Pavlovian urge to stop up your ears, is no excuse – not any longer. Jews have no natural right to live amongst us as inherently hostile aliens in our house. To come in, set themselves up as master, to piss in our faces, to tell us to like it. Full stop. Go now, juke, and cease to lie, both to yourself, and to others.
January 16, 2010, 3:38 pmjukeboxgrad says:
waxx:
I do find it very odd that the conveniently passive voice in your statement allows you to avoid telling us who you are accusing. Who quoted only “four words?” Are you talking about the CNN article cited above by Somin? If so, you need to learn how to count, because they quoted a lot more than “four words.”
Who is quoting only “a short snippet?” Who is committing “all kinds of mischief with the context?”
Boy am I glad that VC is a blog where commenters would NEVER make a vague, phony accusation consisting of pure innuendo and backed by no facts whatsoever.
The part that’s being quoted is more than four words. It’s this:
The tape can be seen here, here or here. Feel free to demonstrate that anyone has committed any kind of “mischief with the context.” Then again, maybe what you’re trying to tell us is that you see no problem with what Robertson said. Is that your point?
You might want to consider the possibility that “the monkeys jumping on the pile, above” have done something you apparently haven’t done: pay attention to what Robertson actually said.
You’ve done a good job of reminding everyone that what should be treated with enormous “skepticism” are any remarks emanating from you. I see that your idea of “critical thinking” is to invent a fantasy about how Robertson was misquoted even though he wasn’t.
Unfortunately for “the RW,” there’s no reason to view captainchaos as a sockpuppet. The GOP’s history of anti-semitism (examples) started long before he showed up here. The GOP is fueled by fear, prejudice and ignorance. That’s why they are in bed with haters like Robertson. captainchaos is just another branch on that same tree.
January 16, 2010, 5:04 pmCaptainchaos says:
You guys are right about at least one thing, my perspective is definitely not contained within the ‘respectable’ range of political discourse. If it will comfort you any, I too think Robertson is a nut. I mean, he believes in ‘God’, so there’s that at a minimum.
January 16, 2010, 5:22 pmathEIst says:
You’d think someone who studied “profecy” for 30 years would have learned to spell it.
January 16, 2010, 5:46 pmleo marvin says:
When a foul odor invades your dinner party, you may get away with blaming the dog, but when it happens to two people in an elevator, both know who’s responsible. This isn’t quite the latter case, but almost. I’d suggest reading the comments jukeboxgrad linked before you think about accusing liberals of such a masterstroke of fart ventriloquism.
January 16, 2010, 7:26 pmNickM says:
leo – I will now take you out of context by saying that you have urged people to read racist tracts. ;-)
In all seriousness, I think Ryan is wrong to suggest that it’s a sockpuppet rather than just a POS. Being universally condemned would be a truly poor job of sockpuppetry (although on a lower-traffic blog that might be adversely affected by the presence of one such disgusting commenter, it might be the work of a troll who doesn’t believe what he’s saying but just wants to wreak havoc).
Nick
January 16, 2010, 8:01 pmAnatid says:
Yeah, because “the left” is a single, homogeneous group of people, which is never stereotyped on VC.
Isn’t it enough that we can all agree that Roberston is a raving loon? Why try to add additional, unfounded labels as well to this disgrace-to-the-species?
January 16, 2010, 8:17 pmreadery says:
As said before, religions do not necessarily have to make sense to outsiders.
January 16, 2010, 9:31 pmStephen says:
Lot of bashing on Regent (not Regents, nor Regency) School of Law here, with little substance. I attended there, and this patent ignorance of some posters strikes a chord with me. We’ve had many great attorneys who’ve earned federal appellate clerkships and state supreme court clerkships, in addition to working for large and small firms.
On this last bar, Regent students who remained local and took the Virginia bar exceeded the average Virginia bar pass rate. Who made up the rest? Folks from those schools who are bashing Regent in this thread.
And while we’re at it, after this post there’s a short list (less than half) of their competition results against who? Themselves? No. The schools attended by folks bashing Regent in this thread. Regent is one school out of 200 accredited by the ABA. When an attorney messes up who attended Regent, it’s big news where the person when to school. Where did all the other attorneys who mess up attend?….
I clerked for the Supreme Court of Texas and made it past applicants from 9 Texas law schools and many out-of-state folks (over 200 applicants) by God’s grace, who enabled me to work hard through law school (married with 5 kids, on law review, student government, and appellate competitions).
Maybe the best critique came from Barry Lynn, head of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State, no fan of Regent. He said this, “If someone walks into a courtroom and says, ‘Oh, the lawyer on the other side graduated from Regent, I don’t have to prepare,’ they’re likely to have his or her head handed to them on a platter,”
Lynn quote – link.
bar news – link.
competition results –
ABA National Appellate Advocacy Competition
* 2008 Regional Champions, Best Brief
* 2007 Regional Finalists, Best Oralist, 5th Best Brief
* 2006 National Champions, National Best Brief and National 5th Best Brief, 2 Regional Champions, 6th & 8th Best Oralists
* 2004 Regional Champions
* 2002 National Semifinalists, National Best Brief and National 5th Best Oralist; 2 Regional Finalists, 3rd and 4th Best Regional Oralists
Federal Bar Association Thurgood Marshall Memorial Moot Court Competition
* 2006 3rd Runner-Up, 3rd Best Oralist
* 2003 Champions, 3rd Place Brief
Frederick Douglass Moot Court Competition
* 2006 National 1st and 2nd Place Oralists
J. Braxton Craven Moot Court Competition
(University of North Carolina)
* 2007 Champions
William B. Spong, Jr. Memorial Moot Court Competition (William and Mary)
* 2009 Champions
* 2008 Champions
* 2003 Champions
ABA National Negotiations Competition
* 2007 Champions
* 2004 Regional First-Runner Up
* 2003 Regional Runners-Up
* 2002 Regional Champions
* 2001 National Champions
Robert R. Merhige, Sr. National Environmental Law Negotiation Comptition
* 2009 National Champions
January 17, 2010, 2:39 am* 2005 National Finalists
jukeboxgrad says:
stephen:
How do you know what schools were attended by the folks “who are bashing Regent in this thread?”
Your post included 16 links (including one Regent link that you repeated 14 times). You posted one link to a non-Regent source. That source said this:
That article is from 2007. The current US News rankings are here. Regent is still in Tier 4.
Those are all things I didn’t know. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.
January 17, 2010, 3:21 amjukeboxgrad says:
readery:
True. And if those “outsiders” happen to be independent voters who run in the opposite direction when they notice GOP leaders consorting with the likes of Robertson, that ends up being good for the country. So I hope Robertson and his followers continue to do lots of things that “make sense” to only themselves.
=================
ryan, upon further reflection it occurs to me that the one who might be engaging in a “little sockpuppetry to try and slime the RW” is you. After all, you’re doing a fine job of discrediting “the RW” all by yourself. You don’t need any help from captainchaos. This would be a good way to discredit the RW: post some RW nonsense, and then disappear from the thread instead of taking responsibility after your nonsense was shown to be nonsense. Even though you obviously have time to be posting comments in other threads (example, example, example, example).
Yup, that would be a good way “to try and slime the RW.” Between the helpful efforts by Robertson, Rush, captainchaos and you, “the RW” is doing a fine job of sliming itself. I hope you all keep up the good work. I think I can count on it.
January 17, 2010, 3:49 amHarry Eagar says:
egd sez: ‘I am sorry if someone on the left thinks that Mr. Robertson doesn’t exemplify one of those stereotypes.’
Please reread original comment. Nobody on this thread is accusing Robertson of antiblack racism, and most people at VC are not leftish.
January 17, 2010, 5:17 amChris Travers says:
That’s as valid as saying that everyone in the 14th century thought the world was flat which is quite demonstrably false.
In the 14th Century, Gerald of Wales provided an interesting anecdote about a theological argument between a Jew and a Catholic (from his “Journey through Wales”). The Jew pointed out that lightening always struck the cathedral, while the Catholic rebuttal was that this was because there was an inherent sympathy between God and the cathedral in part due to how tall and grand the cathedral was, so this natural element of God (the lightening) would certainly strike the cathedral and not, say, a synagogue or brothel. It was therefore seen as a sign of divine favor to be struck by lightening.
As strange as this may sound, Gerald’s point suggests that they knew: lightening was natural, and that it struck tallest objects first. In short, much more was known in the Middle Ages about the natural world than most people generally give credit for.
Asimov was a great writer, but medieval studies (an area beyond his specialty anyway) have come a long way since his time.
January 17, 2010, 3:20 pmChris Travers says:
Yeah. I am sure Waxx and others will say that Reason.com is now controlled by the ultra-left because of how they lampooned Rev. Robertson.
January 17, 2010, 3:35 pmjukeboxgrad says:
Thanks for posting that. It’s funny and I hadn’t seen it before.
Here’s something else that’s funny, on a somewhat related subject: “Gay Teen Worried He Might Be Christian.” As usual, the top comments at digg are very clever.
January 17, 2010, 5:31 pmChris Travers says:
You laugh, but I have seen remarkably serious essays to that effect, though usually not about teens, nor people who were radical right-wing Christians (maybe radical-left-wing Christians but that is another matter).
January 17, 2010, 6:58 pmMichael says:
In regards to Pat Robertson’s thought process, one might assume that a belief in God and the Bible is central. In that to cast out doubt at critical junctures may be central. What others see is perhaps a casting out of the baby of the scientific method with the bath water of doubt and him careening wildly forward. On the other hand, as Isaiah says,
You shall be a glorious crown in the hand of the LORD,
a royal diadem held by your God.
No more shall people call you “Forsaken, “
or your land “Desolate, “
but you shall be called “My Delight, “
and your land “Espoused.”
and this might be seen, at least in part, as due to the instruction the Lord and the Bible gives to the listener as to the proper relationship of himself to his expectations for his future and to others. George Washington was interested in his officers attending religious services be that Jewish or Christian. A tradition that looks back to ‘a pact with the devil’ is going to suggest a different self identity and relation to others.
January 17, 2010, 8:22 pmHarryEagar says:
The French murdering the slaves in Haiti were Catholics.
WWJD?
January 18, 2010, 2:03 pmMaesia Sentinas says:
While this hardly excuses Robertson, it at least explains him (somewhat):
January 18, 2010, 7:42 pmhttp://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/qualified-defense-of-pat-robertson.html
HarryEagar says:
Hardly anybody is saying that Haitians didn’t invoke the devil. But that isn’t what Robertson said.
He said the Christian god destroyed the Haitians because they made a pact with the devil.
You have to be a major loon and/or a con artist to say that in public.
January 18, 2010, 8:35 pmCaramoan says:
I pray for those people who have been injured in Haiti. the earthquake in Haiti is one of the word disasters this year. I just hope that they would be able to recover soon.
January 22, 2010, 3:40 amMongo Jim says:
Be supportive of people who are afflicted with mental illness. Jesus would.
March 9, 2010, 11:43 amMongo Jim says:
It must be hard to live with yourself when no woman on Earth is compelled to have children with you.
No amount of money, privilege, fancy cars or mansions can keep that hollow, empty feeling from seeping into your soul from time to time, Mr. Limbaugh.
March 9, 2010, 11:51 amMongo Jim says:
It was not an ad-hominem attack on Rush Limbaugh. It was my expression of understanding him. I sympathize with Mr. Limbaugh. I, too, feel the pain.
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April 15, 2010, 8:19 pmKim Jay says:
some of my friends who work in haiti were also victimized by that terrible earthquake. i was very thankful that they only suffered minor scratches.
April 21, 2010, 9:06 am