Maryland highway officials said they have spent about $50 million so far clearing and treating roads this winter. That’s almost twice the $26 million that had been budgeted.
The Virginia Department of Transportation said it already spent the $79 million budgeted for statewide snow removal and was tapping into emergency maintenance funds. Once that $25 million reserve is exhausted, the department said it will have to dip into other programs to cover its costs.
For those of us watching the flakes come down here in the mid-Atlantic region, just to note that snow removal is not cheap. Also, Ilya has had to cancel a housewarming party for a second time due to snow … I think we need to consider going beyond correlation to cause. Russians attract snow. There’s nothing else it could be.
Joseph Somsel says:
who would have guessed? Global warming creates JOBS!
I bet the Obama Administration will throw money at the states just to claim credit for stimulus job creation.
February 5, 2010, 12:38 pmDave Hardy says:
It’s brutal here, too. Here’s the webcam.
February 5, 2010, 12:48 pmOren says:
Cheap shot Dave, cheap cheap shot.
Of course, growing up in Chicago and living in Boston, we just learn to drive in the snow. It’s not hard — divide your speed by 3 and multiply your following distance by 3. Unless you live up in the hills or something, most anyone with a FWD car should be able to inch their way around if they are patient.
February 5, 2010, 12:55 pmthirdeblue says:
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473#ixzz0eVBnuRdI
Methinks Colorado Springs may be in for some more budget woes. That is, of course, until some influential (preacher, politician, businessperson’s) house burns down because the roads weren’t plowed and the bare-bones FD couldn’t make it there in time. Maybe Colorado Springs could start urging its citizens to shovel the public roads themselves…encourage cardio-vascular health. Every Saturday becomes the snow day…like an Amish barn-raising. They can cut the Health Department budget deeper too then.
February 5, 2010, 12:55 pmEvilDave says:
Well, with global warming we are assured this will no longer be a problem.
February 5, 2010, 1:00 pmravenshrike says:
It wouldn’t be as big of a problem if they would just buy enough salt/sand/chemical reserves to last through the snowiest winter, and just re-top the reserves every spring, but they don’t. And when they’re running out and go to buy more the price has shot through the roof.
February 5, 2010, 1:14 pmChrisHo says:
but this is because of global warming! This freakish change in weather patterns is caused by man’s wanton use of resources. If we had only started sooner in reducing our abuse of the environment none of this would have happened.
Yeah, got fed that this morning on a certain political site.
February 5, 2010, 1:17 pmSoronel Haetir says:
Seems more like a failure of budgeting processes to me. If budgets could actually be made on multiyear time horizons you could deal with the fact that weather isn’t predictable. Over a five or seven year time frame you are likely to have at least one light winter along with whatever large storms come through. That would require having money sit around waiting for that storm though and government just can’t abide by that, so instead every year every single dollar gets spent and then some.
February 5, 2010, 1:18 pmKent Scheidegger says:
Snow removal equipment causes snow. Miami has none, and they have no snow problem. Therefore, if Virginia and Maryland would just get rid of their snow removal equipment, they would have no problem.
That is the same logic as the argument that the low murder rates of Vermont, North Dakota, and other states without the death penalty disproves deterrence. And some intelligent people actually believe it.
February 5, 2010, 1:27 pmthirdeblue says:
ravenshrike,
I don’t know about large municipalities, but some small ones don’t physically have enough storage space to hold enough cinders etc. for the whole season. My burgh is looking into buying a place for a new Street Department building for that very reason. People started complaining when they started stockpiling cinders in the parking lot.
This, of course, should never be a problem for State road crews…just municipalities.
February 5, 2010, 1:29 pmOren says:
Pesly VA Constitution notwithstanding, apparently.
February 5, 2010, 1:34 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
Clearly, snow removal is expensive because it’s done by SEIU goons. Get all the welfare recepients, give them snow shovels and tell them to go start shoveling if they want their benefits to continue, and it’s done for a pittance.
February 5, 2010, 1:40 pmnewshutz says:
Not just Russians.
There is lots of snow here in Minnesota.
It has to be those Norwegian bachelor farmers!
February 5, 2010, 1:56 pmOren says:
Until some welfare recipient with a DUI from 1974 and a flask of whiskey in his coat drives a huge snow plow into a minivan carrying a family. The taxpayers will be paying that one for decades.
February 5, 2010, 2:00 pmneurodoc says:
We are having a large wedding next weekend, so I am hopeful that this weekend’s blizzard (prediction 20-28″) will be the last of the white stuff for at least another 10+ days. (There is supposed to me more mid-week, but in much lesser amounts, with warmer weather afterwards that may have streets and sidewalks clear again next weekend.) We have heard from the caterer we are using how some people have really been walloped by these snowstorms, e.g., law firm’s annual dinner party for 120 in Mclean last weekend, 48 guests showed up.
February 5, 2010, 2:05 pmDave Hardy says:
Historically, DC snowfall is wildly unpredictable. A winter might have a total snowfall of inches, or of feet. Most years wouldn’t have a 20 inch storm, but some will. And governments hate to do what individuals would be, faced with an unpredictable expense — keep money in the bank to cover the worst case.
It was much worse in my early days there (very early 1980s), esp. inside the District. Not the most efficient government yet seen. After one storm the Fire Chief for some reason found snow on firehouse lawns offensive to his taste. So he ordered his men to shovel all of their lawns clear, and to dump the snow in the street. And not in the gutters, right out where the cars are driving, because he believed that crushing the snow would cause it to melt away.
February 5, 2010, 2:19 pmdcp says:
Does this mean you are not interested in buying some of my tiger repellent?
I should point out that I douse myself in this miracle tonic daily and have yet to be attacked by a single tiger.
February 5, 2010, 2:19 pmrequired says:
Forget Russians, look for Global Warming conferences and the dreaded Algore effect. I suspect the real problem is that a former vice-president of the US is attending some hearing or conference about AGW in the DC area.
February 5, 2010, 2:25 pmSteve Lubet says:
Well, the Clinton Administration tried running a surplus, but Bush 43 decided that tax cuts were more important.
February 5, 2010, 2:37 pmSeaDrive says:
When a city or state is strapped for cash, where better to cut than the snow removal budget. Some years, they get away with it; others not.
February 5, 2010, 2:38 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
They can’t do much damage with an aluminum or plastic snow shovel, which is what I suggested giving them. Large equipment is used to make up for manpower: It isn’t essential to the process.
February 5, 2010, 2:47 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
Personally, I’m glad that DC has a horrible record with snow removal: Three flakes coming down and the government shuts down for a week, and I can sleep easy, knowing I’m safe for at least that time.
February 5, 2010, 2:49 pmAllen says:
How much of the cost is due to increased snow removal? I know my city got hammered by a snowstorm in 1994 and since then the gov decided to buy a ton of snow removal gear. Now everytime it snows you see a fleet of trucks out brining, salting then plowing everything. We’ve got enough trucks that they dedicate dozens to plowing certain “key” intersections all day.
We’ve got to the point that we can’t let anything fall without calling out the fleets.
February 5, 2010, 3:19 pmDOuglas2 says:
Heating oil is a similar commodity, and my vendor is happy to sell it to me in advance of my need and deliver it as I have storage capacity available.
February 5, 2010, 3:24 pmCrunchy Frog says:
is Al Gore in town?
February 5, 2010, 3:33 pmegd says:
So you’re one of those types, huh?
Driving in the snow is easy, reduce your speed by 5 mph and double following distance. If you see people with rear wheel drive cars, stay away. And stay away from anyone going less than half the speed limit, they’re either old, inexperienced, or (shiver) Southerners.
Driving in the snow is easy. It’s when you’re driving on ice that the “/3 *3″ equation comes into play.
February 5, 2010, 3:36 pmRandy says:
This former Buffalonian knows how to drive in snow, and I know that the best way to drive in snow is to stay at home with a six pack (challenging our former mayor).
I always get a chuckle whenever I see an SUV either stuck in the snow or in a ditch. No, I refuse to help them out. They are menace to careful drivers everywhere and I prefer to have them disabled rather than making the roads even more dangerous. I figure if their owners are so stupid to really believe those tv ads of SUVs barreling through mud, snow, swamps and so on, then they get what they deserve, and we are all better off when they are incapacitated.
Other stuck drivers, I gladly get out and give them a push. (It’s what you do in Buffalo, afterall). Which apparently startles most people in Washington, who seem to think spinning their wheels on ice is the best way to get out of the snow, and are unused to unasked assistance.
February 5, 2010, 3:45 pmmalthus says:
Any car can go downhill in snow or mud. Except for a 4WD, a RWD car is best, especially the Beetle, VW Van and Corvair that have the engine weight over the rear-drive wheels.
February 5, 2010, 3:46 pmChrisIowa says:
On the storage of salt and sand, salt cannot be stored forever, it picks up moisture in time. Since it’s also corrosive a building used for its storage has to be inspected periodically, which is best done when nearly empty. Most cities don’t have the inside space to dedicate to store salt and sand and there are higher priorities in their capital budgets.
A city would also has to balance the cost of the storage building which is a fixed long term expense, with an uncertain savings of stocking up in the summer when prices are low. A number of communities in Central Iowa have built a common facility for salt storage, but that was more to assure that they had a supply. The potential savings buying off-peak was just a side benefit.
February 5, 2010, 3:51 pmChrisIowa says:
My favorite car when it was slippery was a Mustang. When I felt it getting unstable I could let up on the accelerator a little and it would stabilize right away. With a front wheel drive that can be touchy. Regardless of the car, getting around in the snow is a skill. If you need a 4wd to get around you probably shouldn’t be out.
February 5, 2010, 4:10 pmCloudesley Shovell says:
I wonder where all that money goes. Minnesota DoT spent $67 million on snow removal last year for the entire winter, and Minnesota gets a lot more snow, and is much larger than Maryland. That being said, Minnesota cities apparently have their own budgets for snow removal (Minneapolis’ annual budget is about $8 million), so the DoT figure only applies to the rural areas.
I’m no expert, but Maryland isn’t that big, and blowing through $50 million with only a couple major storms seems like an awful lot of wasted money.
February 5, 2010, 4:20 pmMarco says:
Or Snow attracts Russians?
February 5, 2010, 4:21 pmJMA says:
Back when I worked for the city I grew up in, we kept a pallet of salt/ice melt compound/whatever. One. ONE. We used it on sidewalks in front of specific buildings. Screw the rest of town.
>.>
February 5, 2010, 4:28 pmgasman says:
They changed the name to ‘climate change’ so that anecdotal evidence can include any anomalous weather. Global warming/climate change has become untestable as a hypothesis, much like any other religious proposition.
February 5, 2010, 4:29 pmMichelle Dulak Thomson says:
Re snow in Maryland, my mom (who lives on the Eastern Shore) tells me that after the last storm (which hit a week ago today and lasted into Saturday), there were school closings and delayed openings all over the following Monday. She says her neighbors saw nothing odd about this. “I mean, you can hardly expect them to plow the roads on a Sunday.”
She adds that they’ve been salting the bejeezus out of the roads, at least around Baltimore. (She had to drive over several times last week, and finally got the [white] truck washed when the black trim was indistinguishable from the rest of it.)
February 5, 2010, 4:34 pmSammy Finkelman says:
The detrrence of murder argument is a little bit more complicated. The big confounding factor there is that few criminals are aware that theer are different laws in difefernt jurisdictions. So rthey dobn’t find taht much of a correlation.
Where this argument applies is when they talk about NUMBER OF PRISON INMATES and crime.
February 5, 2010, 4:47 pmPubliusFL says:
And I had to pick THIS winter to move back to the DC area. ;)
February 5, 2010, 5:02 pmChris Travers says:
There was snow in Houston this year…… But it melted fast. Maybe snow only sticks around if you have snow removal equipment.
February 5, 2010, 5:10 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
And a front-wheel drive car normally has the weight of the engine over the front wheels. I used to drive around quite well in snow with a Taurus.
February 5, 2010, 5:15 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
Bigger union goons?
February 5, 2010, 5:16 pmFedya says:
Asylum-seekers clear snow from Helsinki streets
Read the three linked articles at the bottom as well. You’d think a snowy place like Finland would be able to handle winter well, it’s been the coldest winter in about 30 years, with the deepest snow pack in about 40. (I might be off by a few years; Helsingin Sanomat mentioned the numbers in one of the many many articles their English section has been running about the unusual winter.) Exceptional weather will catch anybody out.
February 5, 2010, 6:55 pmDave Hardy says:
I thought the key to driving in snow was to proceed slowly and carefully, with as few changes in speed and direction as possible, and the key to driving on ice was to scream helplessly as the car made 360 degree spins.
February 5, 2010, 7:42 pmPurple Koolaid says:
I wonder what the wage/benefit/retirement package is for state workers assigned to snow removal.
Years ago, my husband worked at a public works department for a summer. Every hour worked outside of mon-fri/9-5 was triple time pay. THey loved it when they were called!
February 5, 2010, 7:43 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
I lived in Ottawa, Canada for a couple of years….in the down-town core, in a nice enough apartment building that happened to be across the street from a building that had many homeless services in it.
Now, Ottawa prides itself on being the national capital with the worst weather in the world: They say worse than Moscow, or Beijing..
Despite a history of heavy snow pretty much every year, the city is barely competent (still, we visited over these past holidays) in snow removal. And it’s not legal for anyone to clear the sidewalks, that might violate a city ‘bylaw’. Oh, and the people those homeless services were supposed to help? Never saw them do anything to keep their spaces tidy at all, including not moving snow, or for that matter throwing their trash into the (city provided, and emptied) trash cans. That, of course, was a paid job for a city (unionized, overpaid) maintenance worker, and since the city had budget issues (because of labor costs) guess what services were cut back? Not the $150K/year spent on each homeless person…
February 5, 2010, 8:01 pmbyomtov says:
I’m astonished that Ilya had to cancel parties because of snow. You mean the free market doesn’t plow the streets? Go figure.
February 5, 2010, 10:21 pmJim N. says:
As a non-lawyer, non-academic, snow removal company owner I am relishing this opportunity to be the “expert” for the first time ever on VC!
Snow removal is NOT cheap, because the costs of operation are equally high. For plowing and spreading salt my trucks bill out on average $300 per hour. And I didn’t have to go to school for 7 years, have judges belittle me, and work in a profession despised by the general populace.
February 5, 2010, 10:32 pmBut I do have to get out of a warm bed at 3:00 am and go out and work in the snow…. Ok maybe you guys are better off!
Bill says:
Some organizations get snow removal insurance to let them budget predictably.
quoting one source:
February 5, 2010, 10:58 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
They would, if the government would get out of the way of private enterprise…
February 5, 2010, 11:14 pmOren says:
Then it’ll be a lawsuit when some motorist slides down a hill and kills one of your workers.
Doing things in a manner that is safe for the public and the workers costs more money than just hoping nothing will go wrong.
Nah, I drive an AWD vehicle (4 LSDs) with grippy snow tires. Believe me, when it’s snowing and there’s traffic, I am not slowest car in the line.
February 5, 2010, 11:16 pmOren says:
And into a warm truck? Oh, the horrors!
Take a winter driving course sometime. Not only is it crazy fun to drive at 40-50mph on an ice-covered lake, but you have the space to learn in a situation where it’s nearly impossible to flip your car.
February 5, 2010, 11:20 pmStephen Lathrop says:
People who live in cold places have fun looking down their noses at the chaos a big snowfall brings to a place like D.C. For those who don’t know it, warmer areas can produce much tougher driving conditions than cold ones.
I’ve lived in D.C. and I’ve lived in the Rockies, where we drove on packed snow for months at a time. With temperatures somewhere down around the mid-teens snow gets less slippery. Below 0 degrees it isn’t that much different to drive on than asphalt. Around the freezing point is where it’s the worst.
February 6, 2010, 12:07 amAvid reader, reluctant poster says:
Stephen Lathrop is right. I learned to drive in really “bad weather” (-20 or so, dipping down to -40) and it’s not the same as driving in Virginia during a storm like today’s. This is more like driving on mud. On the other hand, some basic rules do apply: don’t press the pedal to the metal to try to get purchase when you’re slipping; don’t go cartwheeling down an unplowed road just for the hell of it; if it’s not an emergency, stay home or walk.
And, help out the guy who’s stuck in front of your house, just so he goes away and doesn’t end up in your front yard. Because they won’t be plowing anymore this year.
February 6, 2010, 1:47 amRich Rostrom says:
Weenies. I have friends who live in the Keweenaw Peninsula in Upper Michigan. If there’s only 200 inches of snow, that’s a very mild winter.
February 6, 2010, 4:10 amBT says:
It is 80 and sunny here in Chicago. I don’t know what you guy are complaining about.
February 6, 2010, 7:30 amGerrys Blog » Snow | The Volokh Conspiracy » Blog Archive » Snow Removal Not Cheap says:
[...] The Virginia Department of Transportation said it already spent the $79 million budgeted for statewide snow removal and was tapping into emergency maintenance funds. Once that $25 million reserve is exhausted, the department said it Read more [...]
February 6, 2010, 10:38 ampublic_defender says:
Part of the reason it’s so expensive is that the state has to stockpile equipment and supplies that will only be needed a handful of days out of the year. Private contractors wold have the same problem. Sure, you can strap a plow onto a pickup to clean a few lots, but you need more to clean thousands of miles of streets and freeways.
February 6, 2010, 12:26 pmSyd Henderson says:
Now, Ottawa prides itself on being the national capital with the worst weather in the world: They say worse than Moscow, or Beijing..
I bet Ulan Bator (Mongolia) could give it some competition, at least in regards to temperature.
February 6, 2010, 1:46 pmKharn says:
I was without power from when I woke-up until 1pm today, it was getting a little chilly in the house towards the end. Now the lights are back on, but the road only has one lane open and it hasn’t been plowed since sun-up, so there is 10+” of snow between the tire ruts.
February 6, 2010, 2:30 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
Facts don’t matter!!! And it’s Outer Mongolia, for crying out loud! :)
Me, I’m from Los Angeles, and live in Thank God Kalispell, Montana
February 6, 2010, 2:34 pmSun Tzu's Nephew says:
Well, then….lets send some lawyers out there also, to save time.
February 6, 2010, 3:37 pmJohn Skookum says:
That’s not an argument against making welfare layabouts work or starve. It’s an argument for restoring sovereign immunity. If it puts a few hundred thousand lawyer parasites out of work, so much the better. They can shovel snow too, for all I care.
February 7, 2010, 12:38 pm