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	<title>Comments on: Ninth Circuit Upholds Jail&#8217;s Routine Strip Search / Visual Body Cavity Search Policy</title>
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	<description>Commentary on law, public policy, and more</description>
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		<title>By: Abhishek</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-944808</link>
		<dc:creator>Abhishek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-944808</guid>
		<description>Considerably, the article is truly the freshest on this notable subject. I concur together with your conclusions and will thirstily appear forward to your next updates.I will immediately grab your rss feed to stay abreast of any updates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considerably, the article is truly the freshest on this notable subject. I concur together with your conclusions and will thirstily appear forward to your next updates.I will immediately grab your rss feed to stay abreast of any updates.</p>
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		<title>By: Nyla Balluch</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-843684</link>
		<dc:creator>Nyla Balluch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 18:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-843684</guid>
		<description>I believe you&#039;ve provided some important data.  I&#039;d love to learn much more and I&#039;ll keep checking back as frequently as possible. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe you&#8217;ve provided some important data.  I&#8217;d love to learn much more and I&#8217;ll keep checking back as frequently as possible. :)</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-784014</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-784014</guid>
		<description>No, that is a different person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, that is a different person.</p>
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		<title>By: H Taylor</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-767488</link>
		<dc:creator>H Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 02:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-767488</guid>
		<description>Laura Timbrook for kiting checks?? The same gal that is married to Jonathan Miller who ran for CA Governor in 2003? Political balderdash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laura Timbrook for kiting checks?? The same gal that is married to Jonathan Miller who ran for CA Governor in 2003? Political balderdash.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-749207</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-749207</guid>
		<description>In case anyone is having trouble visualizing what we are discussing here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riboisae0JY


On the subject of using video recording to ensure that searches are performed in a reasonable manner, here is an interesting example of how that can work (although it was not a strip search):

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/20100208_Daniel_Rubin__Another_TSA_complaint_close_to_home.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In case anyone is having trouble visualizing what we are discussing here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riboisae0JY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riboisae0JY</a></p>
<p>On the subject of using video recording to ensure that searches are performed in a reasonable manner, here is an interesting example of how that can work (although it was not a strip search):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/20100208_Daniel_Rubin__Another_TSA_complaint_close_to_home.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/20100208_Daniel_Rubin__Another_TSA_complaint_close_to_home.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pintler</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748628</link>
		<dc:creator>Pintler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:25:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748628</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;There is no need to physically insert anything into a person’s orifices to determine whether they are carrying a knife...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not sure I agree with that completely: cf. &#039;keistering&#039;. Or if you are thinking X-rays, those aren&#039;t risk free.

That aside, am I misreading the decision? It seems to be addressing something more often called a &#039;strip search&#039;, where guards are forbidden to touch the person being searched. The &#039;body cavity&#039; inspection is visual only, looking for e.g. dangling strings or foil packets in the mouth. If guards are getting out the speculums and sigmoidoscopes that&#039;s one thing; visually verifying there is nothing between one&#039;s cheeks (either pair) is another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>There is no need to physically insert anything into a person’s orifices to determine whether they are carrying a knife&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I agree with that completely: cf. &#8216;keistering&#8217;. Or if you are thinking X-rays, those aren&#8217;t risk free.</p>
<p>That aside, am I misreading the decision? It seems to be addressing something more often called a &#8216;strip search&#8217;, where guards are forbidden to touch the person being searched. The &#8216;body cavity&#8217; inspection is visual only, looking for e.g. dangling strings or foil packets in the mouth. If guards are getting out the speculums and sigmoidoscopes that&#8217;s one thing; visually verifying there is nothing between one&#8217;s cheeks (either pair) is another.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748516</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748516</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;. . . Sotomayor (whose 2d Cir. jurisprudence was very pro-plainitff here) . . .&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This case veritably screams for some wise Latina style empathy.  The support (active and passive) for the mage opp here at vlkh.cm is surprising, but not really.  &quot;What me worry?&quot; asks the 4a professor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>. . . Sotomayor (whose 2d Cir. jurisprudence was very pro-plainitff here) . . .</p></blockquote>
<p>This case veritably screams for some wise Latina style empathy.  The support (active and passive) for the mage opp here at vlkh.cm is surprising, but not really.  &#8220;What me worry?&#8221; asks the 4a professor.</p>
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		<title>By: eyesay</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748442</link>
		<dc:creator>eyesay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 06:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748442</guid>
		<description>In 1896, Plessy v. Ferguson upheld the doctrine of &quot;separate but equal.&quot; Arguably, it was worth a try. But for the next 58 years, separate was never equal, and it became clear that &quot;separate but equal&quot; was not going to work. The Supreme Court recognized this and overturned it in 1954, declaring unanimously, &quot;separate educational facilities are inherently unequal.&quot;

Now we have a decision that is creating a doctrine of &quot;body cavity searches are OK if guards aren&#039;t abusive.&quot; I predict that, just as it was impossible for the United States to achieve &quot;separate but equal,&quot; it will prove impossible to achieve &quot;guards aren&#039;t abusive.&quot; Eventually, the Supreme Court will rule that allowing prison guards to routinely perform body cavity searches without probable cause is &lt;i&gt;inherently abusive&lt;/i&gt; and overturn this decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1896, Plessy v. Ferguson upheld the doctrine of &#8220;separate but equal.&#8221; Arguably, it was worth a try. But for the next 58 years, separate was never equal, and it became clear that &#8220;separate but equal&#8221; was not going to work. The Supreme Court recognized this and overturned it in 1954, declaring unanimously, &#8220;separate educational facilities are inherently unequal.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now we have a decision that is creating a doctrine of &#8220;body cavity searches are OK if guards aren&#8217;t abusive.&#8221; I predict that, just as it was impossible for the United States to achieve &#8220;separate but equal,&#8221; it will prove impossible to achieve &#8220;guards aren&#8217;t abusive.&#8221; Eventually, the Supreme Court will rule that allowing prison guards to routinely perform body cavity searches without probable cause is <i>inherently abusive</i> and overturn this decision.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon.</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748391</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748391</guid>
		<description>Take a look at who the district judge was here.  No way plaintiffs seek cert. here with Breyer recused.  Even if Kennedy sides with Stevens (a dissenter in Bell v. Wolfish), Ginsburg, and Sotomayor (whose 2d Cir. jurisprudence was very pro-plainitff here), that&#039;s a 4-4 tie, which automatically affirms the 9th Cir. without opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take a look at who the district judge was here.  No way plaintiffs seek cert. here with Breyer recused.  Even if Kennedy sides with Stevens (a dissenter in Bell v. Wolfish), Ginsburg, and Sotomayor (whose 2d Cir. jurisprudence was very pro-plainitff here), that&#8217;s a 4-4 tie, which automatically affirms the 9th Cir. without opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Orin Kerr</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748369</link>
		<dc:creator>Orin Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748369</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;My favorite part is the passage with Kozinski’s entertaining parentheticals, including a pun on one of the named plaintiff’s surnames. &lt;/em&gt;

I found that passage annoying, actually: Blue-book humor is low-hanging fruit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>My favorite part is the passage with Kozinski’s entertaining parentheticals, including a pun on one of the named plaintiff’s surnames. </em></p>
<p>I found that passage annoying, actually: Blue-book humor is low-hanging fruit.</p>
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		<title>By: ArthurKirkland</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748337</link>
		<dc:creator>ArthurKirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 04:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748337</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Inserting fingers or instruments into the rectum or vagina of an unwilling person is normally a felony carrying severe penalties&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Some people would expand that zone of criminality to include acts involving willing persons . . . and they were getting away with it as recently as a decade ago, until the Supreme Court got around to vindicating liberty</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>Inserting fingers or instruments into the rectum or vagina of an unwilling person is normally a felony carrying severe penalties</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Some people would expand that zone of criminality to include acts involving willing persons . . . and they were getting away with it as recently as a decade ago, until the Supreme Court got around to vindicating liberty</p>
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		<title>By: Frater Plotter</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748298</link>
		<dc:creator>Frater Plotter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748298</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s be clear that just as the notion of &quot;arrest&quot; contemplates actions against a person that normally would be regarded as assault, kidnapping, etc., similarly does &quot;body cavity search&quot; contemplate actions that would normally be regarded as rape or sexual assault.

Inserting fingers or instruments into the rectum or vagina of an unwilling person is normally a felony carrying severe penalties -- including, these days, sexual-offender registration, a permanent mark of shame. It is thus recognized by the law to be an extreme invasion of the normal rights of a person to bodily integrity.

Nor, for that matter, is it clear that this is the least intrusive means available to the state to accomplish its goals. Consider the availability of full-body scanners, X-ray machines, and the like which have been considered for airport security. There is no need to physically insert anything into a person&#039;s orifices to determine whether they are carrying a knife; therefore, choosing to do so indicates a willful choice to commit rape under color of law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s be clear that just as the notion of &#8220;arrest&#8221; contemplates actions against a person that normally would be regarded as assault, kidnapping, etc., similarly does &#8220;body cavity search&#8221; contemplate actions that would normally be regarded as rape or sexual assault.</p>
<p>Inserting fingers or instruments into the rectum or vagina of an unwilling person is normally a felony carrying severe penalties &#8212; including, these days, sexual-offender registration, a permanent mark of shame. It is thus recognized by the law to be an extreme invasion of the normal rights of a person to bodily integrity.</p>
<p>Nor, for that matter, is it clear that this is the least intrusive means available to the state to accomplish its goals. Consider the availability of full-body scanners, X-ray machines, and the like which have been considered for airport security. There is no need to physically insert anything into a person&#8217;s orifices to determine whether they are carrying a knife; therefore, choosing to do so indicates a willful choice to commit rape under color of law.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748293</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748293</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;From a pragmatic perspective, if I as a law abiding :-) citizen am unfortunate enough to be arrested, I want to be treated with kid gloves — no nasty searches and so on. But I reeeallly want all the other guys in the holding cell to have been searched to the Nth degree.
I dunno if I can expect to have it both ways.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If you are to be held naked for several hours, like the plaintiffs in this case, then what kind of search would be appropo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>From a pragmatic perspective, if I as a law abiding :-) citizen am unfortunate enough to be arrested, I want to be treated with kid gloves — no nasty searches and so on. But I reeeallly want all the other guys in the holding cell to have been searched to the Nth degree.<br />
I dunno if I can expect to have it both ways.</p></blockquote>
<p>If you are to be held naked for several hours, like the plaintiffs in this case, then what kind of search would be appropo?</p>
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		<title>By: Pintler</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748282</link>
		<dc:creator>Pintler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748282</guid>
		<description>From a pragmatic perspective, if I as a law abiding :-) citizen am unfortunate enough to be arrested, I want to be treated with kid gloves - no nasty searches and so on. But I reeeallly want all the other guys in the holding cell to have been searched to the Nth degree.

I dunno if I can expect to have it both ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a pragmatic perspective, if I as a law abiding :-) citizen am unfortunate enough to be arrested, I want to be treated with kid gloves &#8211; no nasty searches and so on. But I reeeallly want all the other guys in the holding cell to have been searched to the Nth degree.</p>
<p>I dunno if I can expect to have it both ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748197</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748197</guid>
		<description>Judge Kozinski is hilarious when you agree with him.  I can never dislike what he says too bad because he put a Tad ref in an opinion and because he put some humorous softcore pr0n on the Net.  Nevertheless, in this one his humor falls flat.  He should have come up with good ideas, instead of jokes, in this particular opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judge Kozinski is hilarious when you agree with him.  I can never dislike what he says too bad because he put a Tad ref in an opinion and because he put some humorous softcore pr0n on the Net.  Nevertheless, in this one his humor falls flat.  He should have come up with good ideas, instead of jokes, in this particular opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: rjs</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748185</link>
		<dc:creator>rjs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748185</guid>
		<description>EV:  &quot;I also agree with Chief Judge Alex Kozinski’s very interesting and thoughtful concurrence&quot;

My favorite part is the passage with Kozinski&#039;s entertaining parentheticals, including a pun on one of the named plaintiff&#039;s surnames.  

Kozinski discusses the difficulties of dividing inmate searchees into subclasses.  One subclass is people charged with violent crimes.  But, Kozinski opines, jurists disagree on what constitutes a violent crime.  With that setup, here is the funny part:

See, e.g., United States v. Chambers, 473 F.3d 724, 726 (7th Cir. 2007) (escape is a crime of violence); United States v. Piccolo, 441 F.3d 1084, 1088 (9th Cir. 2006) (no it’s not); United States v. Asberry, 394 F.3d 712, 715-16 (9th Cir. 2005) (statutory rape is a crime of violence); id. at 722 (Bea, J., concurring) (no way); United States v. Wenner, 351 F.3d 969, 974 (9th Cir. 2003) (burglary is not a crime of violence); id. at 977 (Wallace, J., dissenting) (is too); United States v. Johnson, 448 F.3d 1017, 1018 (8th Cir. 2006) (grand theft auto is); Von Don Nguyen v. Holder, 571 F.3d 524, 525 (6th Cir. 2009) (au contraire); Malta-Espinoza v. Gonzales, 478 F.3d 1080, 1084 (9th Cir. 2007) (stalking isn’t); id. at 1088 (Duffy, J., dissenting) (“I respectfully dissent.”); United States v. Saavedra-Velazquez, 578 F.3d 1103, 1110 (9th Cir. 2009) (Reinhardt, J.) (attempted robbery is); id. (Reinhardt, J.,
specially concurring) (or is it?); United States v. Trinidad-Aquino, 259 F.3d 1140, 1146 (drunk-driving-resulting-inbodily-injury is a gentle crime); id. at 1147 (Kozinski, J., dissenting)(Bull!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EV:  &#8220;I also agree with Chief Judge Alex Kozinski’s very interesting and thoughtful concurrence&#8221;</p>
<p>My favorite part is the passage with Kozinski&#8217;s entertaining parentheticals, including a pun on one of the named plaintiff&#8217;s surnames.  </p>
<p>Kozinski discusses the difficulties of dividing inmate searchees into subclasses.  One subclass is people charged with violent crimes.  But, Kozinski opines, jurists disagree on what constitutes a violent crime.  With that setup, here is the funny part:</p>
<p>See, e.g., United States v. Chambers, 473 F.3d 724, 726 (7th Cir. 2007) (escape is a crime of violence); United States v. Piccolo, 441 F.3d 1084, 1088 (9th Cir. 2006) (no it’s not); United States v. Asberry, 394 F.3d 712, 715-16 (9th Cir. 2005) (statutory rape is a crime of violence); id. at 722 (Bea, J., concurring) (no way); United States v. Wenner, 351 F.3d 969, 974 (9th Cir. 2003) (burglary is not a crime of violence); id. at 977 (Wallace, J., dissenting) (is too); United States v. Johnson, 448 F.3d 1017, 1018 (8th Cir. 2006) (grand theft auto is); Von Don Nguyen v. Holder, 571 F.3d 524, 525 (6th Cir. 2009) (au contraire); Malta-Espinoza v. Gonzales, 478 F.3d 1080, 1084 (9th Cir. 2007) (stalking isn’t); id. at 1088 (Duffy, J., dissenting) (“I respectfully dissent.”); United States v. Saavedra-Velazquez, 578 F.3d 1103, 1110 (9th Cir. 2009) (Reinhardt, J.) (attempted robbery is); id. (Reinhardt, J.,<br />
specially concurring) (or is it?); United States v. Trinidad-Aquino, 259 F.3d 1140, 1146 (drunk-driving-resulting-inbodily-injury is a gentle crime); id. at 1147 (Kozinski, J., dissenting)(Bull!).</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748170</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748170</guid>
		<description>See, now as long as you have a Palin / Jindal in &#039;12 bumpersticker, there is no parade of the horribles, &lt;i&gt;Mark&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, now as long as you have a Palin / Jindal in &#8217;12 bumpersticker, there is no parade of the horribles, <i>Mark</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748164</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748164</guid>
		<description>I predict this ruling will lead to a dramatic increase in routine abuse and rape of prisoners both male and female, and all claims of rape, even those that are clearly rape, will be defended on the claim that the &quot;criminal&quot; was resisting the now lawful body cavity search.

This decision is repulsive and confirms the police state is upon us as your person can be violated for the most minor of infractions.

Better not get arrested for a seatbelt violation or we will be forced to search (e.g. rape) you. It&#039;s for everyone&#039;s safety you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I predict this ruling will lead to a dramatic increase in routine abuse and rape of prisoners both male and female, and all claims of rape, even those that are clearly rape, will be defended on the claim that the &#8220;criminal&#8221; was resisting the now lawful body cavity search.</p>
<p>This decision is repulsive and confirms the police state is upon us as your person can be violated for the most minor of infractions.</p>
<p>Better not get arrested for a seatbelt violation or we will be forced to search (e.g. rape) you. It&#8217;s for everyone&#8217;s safety you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748131</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 00:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748131</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;However, if the trespasser at the econ summit gets the “Goatse” and the trespasser at the family planning facility gets the “Marcus Welby,” that does not give the first trespasser a claim.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

To expand on this a bit, a think one important bit of sub-text of the case, or more specifically from the plaintiffs vetted for the case, is that  strip searching related abuse occurs precisely because police know that certain suspects will not be punished by the judicial branch for whatever (and generally good) reason.  For example, arrestee may have political views that the policemen find distasteful.  So the popos, in these cases, administer punishment as part of the arrest procedures, and administer it most cruelly when they know that they don&#039;t have a case.  That is ironic.  It also is, or should be, a Constitutionally cognizable problem.  None of the opinions in &lt;i&gt;Bull&lt;/i&gt; did a good job cognizing it, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>However, if the trespasser at the econ summit gets the “Goatse” and the trespasser at the family planning facility gets the “Marcus Welby,” that does not give the first trespasser a claim.</p></blockquote>
<p>To expand on this a bit, a think one important bit of sub-text of the case, or more specifically from the plaintiffs vetted for the case, is that  strip searching related abuse occurs precisely because police know that certain suspects will not be punished by the judicial branch for whatever (and generally good) reason.  For example, arrestee may have political views that the policemen find distasteful.  So the popos, in these cases, administer punishment as part of the arrest procedures, and administer it most cruelly when they know that they don&#8217;t have a case.  That is ironic.  It also is, or should be, a Constitutionally cognizable problem.  None of the opinions in <i>Bull</i> did a good job cognizing it, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton Corrections</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748106</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton Corrections</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748106</guid>
		<description>btw, &lt;i&gt;ArthurKirkland&lt;/i&gt;, I like your posts here at volokh.com.  You are sarcastic sometimes, but I get what you are saying and your heart is in the right place from what I can see.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btw, <i>ArthurKirkland</i>, I like your posts here at volokh.com.  You are sarcastic sometimes, but I get what you are saying and your heart is in the right place from what I can see.</p>
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		<title>By: ArthurKirkland</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748103</link>
		<dc:creator>ArthurKirkland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748103</guid>
		<description>I like the idea of requiring a single videotape, to be entrusted to the searched citizen. Unless qualified immunity is abandoned, I also advocate requiring a record of as many police-citizen interactions as can be reasonably arranged. Every police car, every interrogation room, every booking area should be camera-equipped.

I also like the all-or-none standard.  If any felony suspect is to be searched, regardless of individualized suspicion, every felony suspect.  Any misdemeanor suspect, every misdemeanor suspect.

This is a close call, from my perspective.  In part because I am skeptical about the majority&#039;s expressed outrage concerning law enforcement misconduct.  I would wager that several of those judges would bend backward until their spines snapped to avoid awarding relief to a plaintiff who established abusive treatment by law enforcement personnel.  I might lose that wager, but Las Vegas was built -- quite handsomely -- on probability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the idea of requiring a single videotape, to be entrusted to the searched citizen. Unless qualified immunity is abandoned, I also advocate requiring a record of as many police-citizen interactions as can be reasonably arranged. Every police car, every interrogation room, every booking area should be camera-equipped.</p>
<p>I also like the all-or-none standard.  If any felony suspect is to be searched, regardless of individualized suspicion, every felony suspect.  Any misdemeanor suspect, every misdemeanor suspect.</p>
<p>This is a close call, from my perspective.  In part because I am skeptical about the majority&#8217;s expressed outrage concerning law enforcement misconduct.  I would wager that several of those judges would bend backward until their spines snapped to avoid awarding relief to a plaintiff who established abusive treatment by law enforcement personnel.  I might lose that wager, but Las Vegas was built &#8212; quite handsomely &#8212; on probability.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton Corrections</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748056</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton Corrections</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748056</guid>
		<description>--Deputy Adam Stoddard--</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8211;Deputy Adam Stoddard&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748027</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748027</guid>
		<description>Another part that Judge Kozinski gets wrong is the idea that all arrestees will be required to undergo the strip searches, so the strip searches will be less abusive.  The problem is that the jailor is not REQUIRED to do the strip search, but merely allowed at her option.  Deputy Todd Stoddard is not getting strip searched.  Ex Officer Johannes Mehserle is not getting strip searched.  Nor are all strip searches created equal.  Some stretch out the sensitive tissues to a great extent and for a long time.  Others not so much.  However, if the trespasser at the econ summit gets the &quot;Goatse&quot; and the trespasser at the family planning facility gets the &quot;Marcus Welby,&quot; that does not give the first trespasser a claim.  Judge Kozinski&#039;s argument makes zero sense.

Frankly, I am not necessarily against the idea that all inmates to be held for longer than x hours can be strip searched, however, there is definitely room for judges to still safeguard fourth amendment values.  For example, judges should get a little activist and require that the arrestee has the option of having the searches video&#039;d (or not) and that the arrestee would be awarded sole custody of the video shot.  That is an administrative framework that does not require &quot;judgement calls&quot; and still protects privacy interests that are supposed to be safeguarded 4a by by enabling appropriate section 1983 claims.  It is not hard to fashion a better compromise with a little will and imagination, which the judges and the 4a scholars seem to be sorely lacking in this area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another part that Judge Kozinski gets wrong is the idea that all arrestees will be required to undergo the strip searches, so the strip searches will be less abusive.  The problem is that the jailor is not REQUIRED to do the strip search, but merely allowed at her option.  Deputy Todd Stoddard is not getting strip searched.  Ex Officer Johannes Mehserle is not getting strip searched.  Nor are all strip searches created equal.  Some stretch out the sensitive tissues to a great extent and for a long time.  Others not so much.  However, if the trespasser at the econ summit gets the &#8220;Goatse&#8221; and the trespasser at the family planning facility gets the &#8220;Marcus Welby,&#8221; that does not give the first trespasser a claim.  Judge Kozinski&#8217;s argument makes zero sense.</p>
<p>Frankly, I am not necessarily against the idea that all inmates to be held for longer than x hours can be strip searched, however, there is definitely room for judges to still safeguard fourth amendment values.  For example, judges should get a little activist and require that the arrestee has the option of having the searches video&#8217;d (or not) and that the arrestee would be awarded sole custody of the video shot.  That is an administrative framework that does not require &#8220;judgement calls&#8221; and still protects privacy interests that are supposed to be safeguarded 4a by by enabling appropriate section 1983 claims.  It is not hard to fashion a better compromise with a little will and imagination, which the judges and the 4a scholars seem to be sorely lacking in this area.</p>
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		<title>By: Visitor Again</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-748004</link>
		<dc:creator>Visitor Again</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-748004</guid>
		<description>Kozinski characterizes the request for adherence to the fourth amendment requirement of individualized determinations of cause to search as constituting a demand for the judicial creation of favored sub-classes entitled to disparate treatment.  What sophistry.

The fourth amendment protects individual people, not classes of people.  In this context, classes are artificial contrivances of convenience, created to avoid the hard work the fourth amendment requires, making individualized determinations of reasonable cause for invasions of privacy.

Making individualized determinations would be heavy going, Kozinski complains.  The fourth amendment&#039;s protection of anal privacy thus bends over before considerations of administrative convenience.   

Why not simply make a flat holding that the fourth amendment offers no protection to those in custody instead of clinging to the fiction that the courts are making determinations of whether searches of inmates are reasonable?  That would be the honest course.

Instead, the courts concede that the reasonability of searches depends upon the circumstances, but then accord one circumstance--detention--determinative effect and refuse to look at any other circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kozinski characterizes the request for adherence to the fourth amendment requirement of individualized determinations of cause to search as constituting a demand for the judicial creation of favored sub-classes entitled to disparate treatment.  What sophistry.</p>
<p>The fourth amendment protects individual people, not classes of people.  In this context, classes are artificial contrivances of convenience, created to avoid the hard work the fourth amendment requires, making individualized determinations of reasonable cause for invasions of privacy.</p>
<p>Making individualized determinations would be heavy going, Kozinski complains.  The fourth amendment&#8217;s protection of anal privacy thus bends over before considerations of administrative convenience.   </p>
<p>Why not simply make a flat holding that the fourth amendment offers no protection to those in custody instead of clinging to the fiction that the courts are making determinations of whether searches of inmates are reasonable?  That would be the honest course.</p>
<p>Instead, the courts concede that the reasonability of searches depends upon the circumstances, but then accord one circumstance&#8211;detention&#8211;determinative effect and refuse to look at any other circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: Buddy Hinton</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-747980</link>
		<dc:creator>Buddy Hinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-747980</guid>
		<description>I thought this excerpt from the dissent was pretty interesting:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Mary Bull was arrested at a political protest for pouring red
dye mixed with corn syrup on the ground. At the police station,
according to her testimony, she was pushed to the floor
and her clothes forcibly removed. Her face was smashed
against the concrete cell floor while jailors performed a body
cavity search. She was left naked in the cell for eleven hours,
then subjected to a second body cavity search. After another
twelve hours in the jail, she was released on her own recognizance.
She was never charged with a crime.
Charli Johnson was arrested for operating a motor vehicle
with a suspended license. She alleges she was forcibly strip
searched by male officers in a hallway, and that she was kept
in a cold room, naked for twelve hours with male officers regularly
viewing her. No contraband was found. She was
released the next day. No charges were ever filed.
Sister Bernie Galvin, a Catholic nun and a member of the
Sisters of Divine Providence, was arrested at an anti-war demonstration
for trespassing. She was strip searched at the jail.
No contraband was found.
Michael Marron was arrested for alleged credit card fraud
at the Hotel Nikko, strip searched, and allegedly beaten and
left naked in a cell for over ten hours. No contraband was
found. All charges were eventually dismissed.
Laura Timbrook, who was arrested for bouncing small
checks, was body cavity searched twice. No contraband was
found. Deborah Flick alleges she was arrested for public
intoxication, forcibly strip searched and left naked and bleeding
in a cell overnight. Salome Mangosing, arrested for public
drunkenness, was strip searched and forced to remain naked
for twelve hours. Again, no contraband was found. Leigh
Fleming was arrested for disturbing the peace. She was body
cavity searched and confined naked in a cold room for five
hours. No contraband was found, and she was never charged
with a crime.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought this excerpt from the dissent was pretty interesting:</p>
<blockquote><p>Mary Bull was arrested at a political protest for pouring red<br />
dye mixed with corn syrup on the ground. At the police station,<br />
according to her testimony, she was pushed to the floor<br />
and her clothes forcibly removed. Her face was smashed<br />
against the concrete cell floor while jailors performed a body<br />
cavity search. She was left naked in the cell for eleven hours,<br />
then subjected to a second body cavity search. After another<br />
twelve hours in the jail, she was released on her own recognizance.<br />
She was never charged with a crime.<br />
Charli Johnson was arrested for operating a motor vehicle<br />
with a suspended license. She alleges she was forcibly strip<br />
searched by male officers in a hallway, and that she was kept<br />
in a cold room, naked for twelve hours with male officers regularly<br />
viewing her. No contraband was found. She was<br />
released the next day. No charges were ever filed.<br />
Sister Bernie Galvin, a Catholic nun and a member of the<br />
Sisters of Divine Providence, was arrested at an anti-war demonstration<br />
for trespassing. She was strip searched at the jail.<br />
No contraband was found.<br />
Michael Marron was arrested for alleged credit card fraud<br />
at the Hotel Nikko, strip searched, and allegedly beaten and<br />
left naked in a cell for over ten hours. No contraband was<br />
found. All charges were eventually dismissed.<br />
Laura Timbrook, who was arrested for bouncing small<br />
checks, was body cavity searched twice. No contraband was<br />
found. Deborah Flick alleges she was arrested for public<br />
intoxication, forcibly strip searched and left naked and bleeding<br />
in a cell overnight. Salome Mangosing, arrested for public<br />
drunkenness, was strip searched and forced to remain naked<br />
for twelve hours. Again, no contraband was found. Leigh<br />
Fleming was arrested for disturbing the peace. She was body<br />
cavity searched and confined naked in a cold room for five<br />
hours. No contraband was found, and she was never charged<br />
with a crime.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: CMH</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-747979</link>
		<dc:creator>CMH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-747979</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-747923&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-747923&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SuperSkeptic&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: Can we all at least agree that “qualified immunity” is a mess...?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is.  But the underlying 4th Amendment issue (which I also think we can all agree is a mess) is the real problem here.  It&#039;s not like this case turned on clearly established, it largely turned on the constitutional violation.  Graber&#039;s vote didn&#039;t change the outcome on either prong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-747923">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-747923" rel="nofollow">SuperSkeptic</a></strong>: Can we all at least agree that “qualified immunity” is a mess&#8230;?
</p></blockquote>
<p>It is.  But the underlying 4th Amendment issue (which I also think we can all agree is a mess) is the real problem here.  It&#8217;s not like this case turned on clearly established, it largely turned on the constitutional violation.  Graber&#8217;s vote didn&#8217;t change the outcome on either prong.</p>
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		<title>By: Orin Kerr</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-747969</link>
		<dc:creator>Orin Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-747969</guid>
		<description>I wrote a short article last year about the basic problem Judge Kozinski identifies: &lt;a href=&quot;http://jthtl.org/content/articles/V7I1/JTHTLv7i1_Kerr.PDF&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Limits of Fourth Amendment Injunctions&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote a short article last year about the basic problem Judge Kozinski identifies: <a href="http://jthtl.org/content/articles/V7I1/JTHTLv7i1_Kerr.PDF" rel="nofollow">The Limits of Fourth Amendment Injunctions</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: SuperSkeptic</title>
		<link>http://volokh.com/2010/02/09/ninth-circuit-upholds-jails-routine-strip-search-visual-body-cavity-search-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-747923</link>
		<dc:creator>SuperSkeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 20:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://volokh.com/?p=26561#comment-747923</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Because it’s 6–5 on the merits (Judge Graber joined the majority as to qualified immunity, but agreed with the dissent’s underlying constitutional argument), and because&quot;...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Can we all at least agree that &quot;qualified immunity&quot; is a mess...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Because it’s 6–5 on the merits (Judge Graber joined the majority as to qualified immunity, but agreed with the dissent’s underlying constitutional argument), and because&#8221;&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Can we all at least agree that &#8220;qualified immunity&#8221; is a mess&#8230;?</p>
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