Some California state legislators want to remove serpentine as the state rock of California and, according to the NYT, this has some geologists up in arms.
The bill to defrock the rock — which recently passed the full State Senate and is awaiting a vote in the Assembly — is sponsored by Senator Gloria Romero, a Los Angeles Democrat, with the strong support of the Asbestos Disease Awareness Organization.
Declaring that serpentine “has known health effects,” the bill would leave California — one of roughly half the states in the nation with an official rock or mineral — without an official rock. (According to the bill, California was the first state, in 1965, to name an official rock.) Asbestos occurs naturally in many minerals, and indeed some serpentine rocks do serve as a host for chrysotile, a form of asbestos. But geologists say chrysotile is less harmful than some other forms of asbestos, and would be a danger — like scores of other rocks — only if a person were to breathe its dust repeatedly.
“There is no way anyone is going to get bothered by casual exposure to that kind of rock,” said Malcolm Ross, a geologist who retired from the United States Geological Survey in 1995. “Unless they were breaking it up with a sledgehammer year after year.”
Dr. Ross and other opponents of the bill are concerned that removing serpentine, which is occasionally used in jewelry, as the state’s rock would demonize it and thus inspire litigation against museums, property owners and other sites where the rocks sit; they cite the inclusion of a letter of support from the Consumer Attorneys of California with the bill as evidence.
Ron Bailey has more here.
Per Son says:
News like this may drive me to another rock – crack!!
Isn’t there better stuff to be doing in California!
July 15, 2010, 9:17 amPraetorius says:
Proof that the state representatives have rocks in their heads?
Hey, rockheads! The state’s bankrupt: There are more important things to worry about!
July 15, 2010, 9:23 amRedlands says:
Praetorius is right. But knowing our Assembly they’ll spend the next two months in rancorous debate over this life-or-death issue rather than tackle our insignificant budget deficit.
July 15, 2010, 9:43 amruuffles says:
The legislature’s hands are tied by the 2/3 requirement. They can’t do much else …
July 15, 2010, 9:46 amHouston Lawyer says:
Does California have a state plant? Could it be cannibis?
July 15, 2010, 9:59 amHary Schell says:
The Legislature would be more useful if part-time. Nutball and ancillary ideas like this would be minimized, there would not be time and the need to appear to be “doing something”.
On the other hand, the Legislature, 2/3 majority requirement to raise taxes (not to set a budget), will not address the structural problems CA government has. To do so would “harm” the PE unions (same pay for the same work, to start) and roll back taxes and regulations that are strangling the private sector.
Without a vigorous private sector, this welfare state cannot pay for itself.
And the kinship between Gloria Romero and a rock is obvious.
July 15, 2010, 10:09 amsvi says:
this is almost as stupid as having an official state rock.
July 15, 2010, 10:14 amBob from Ohio says:
Having a state rock is silly in the first place.
Launching a campaign to remove the designation is ludicrous.
Doing it because some of the rocks contain a material that in a totally different form is harmful is both ludicrous and sily.
Launching the campaign thinking it will help litigation exhausts my vocabulary.
July 15, 2010, 10:15 amJuly 15 roundup says:
[...] state rock makes NYT front page [yesterday; Facebook group, Calif. Civil Justice, Bailey via Adler, [...]
July 15, 2010, 10:21 amPaludicola says:
Oh, no, not the state rock!
These symbols are mostly dumb. Having passed a bill to designate one was dumb, trying to pass one to revoke said designation for reasons other than that having a state rock is dumb is at least equally as dumb.
July 15, 2010, 10:23 amDotar Sojat says:
Its the Rock’s pension benefits that are the real reason behind this.
July 15, 2010, 10:42 amfred from des moines says:
Just about any rock and this would do.
July 15, 2010, 10:46 amDuracomm says:
ruuffles said,
Nothing but a convenient excuse for California’s dysfunctional political class. The 2/3 rule did not prevent them from spending their way to a fiscal disaster. It should not prevent them from fixing the problem.
The fact that they are spending time on this rock bill (which looks like a gift to the trial attorneys) while the states fiscal situation implodes shows just how dysfunctional the politicians are.
Failed States
After a long spending binge, governors go begging for a handout.
It won’t be their last.
July 15, 2010, 10:51 amShelbyC says:
It takes 2/3rds to cut spending? Don’t think so.
July 15, 2010, 10:51 amruuffles says:
A lot of the spending is mandated by voter initiated propositions. So around and around we go.
July 15, 2010, 10:55 amMichael Ejercito says:
That is a huge problem.
Voters had passed a bond issue for a train from L.A. to San Francisco. People who travel between the two places usually ride in an airplane.
July 15, 2010, 11:07 amHarry Schell says:
Spending is the problem.
Too many people collecting welfare overtly or by getting paid a lot more money and working less than their private sector counterparts, forgetting whether what they do for a living brings any value to the state.
The Democrat-dominated (for decades, CA is effectively a one-party state) Legislature depends on dispensing such welfare for its campaign money and clout. At a recent meeting with SEIU worthies, they were told “…we elected you, and we have a long memory…”.
Obama says CA is leading the nation in many ways. Pretty clear what his vision is.
July 15, 2010, 11:37 amDeezRightWingNutz says:
I’d love to a see a bill introduced to name asbestos the state carcinogen.
July 15, 2010, 12:12 pmChrisTS says:
Shouldn’t California’s state mineral be gold?
July 15, 2010, 12:16 pmnhrpolitic13 says:
Great news everybody! California has eliminated its staggering debt-load, resolved its prison over-crowding and health care crises, and vaulted its students to #1 in the national educational rankings!
As soon as this crippling rock-crisis is resolved, the state legislature will move on to tackling peace in the Middle East (which we expect to resolve shortly!).
July 15, 2010, 12:18 pmUrso says:
Voters passed a bond, for $10B if I recall, for a preliminary study to be performed on such a train. I was apoplectic, because it was sold as “pass this initiative and get a high speed train!” when the real effect was “pass this initiative and become shackled to passing several other expensive initiatives, and many billions of dollars later you’ll get a train.”
And what a disaster it’s been to secure rights of way.
July 15, 2010, 12:22 pmRichard Nieporent says:
Next she is planning to introduce a paper bill, followed by a scissor bill.
Senator Romero – dense as a rock!
July 15, 2010, 12:23 pmnhrpolitic13 says:
Spoken like a true ideologue with more concern for partisanship than substance. In truth, California is a no-party state – a legislature locked up by ideologically extremists from BOTH parties so completely unwilling to give on any point that nothing whatsoever is accomplished (except to stagger along with the unacceptable status quo).
Of course it is also the case that Californians’ penchant for constant, expensive, un-funded propositions passed via the initiative process is of no great assistance to the state. But, in the end, it is the fact that neither party holds a true working majority in the legislature, and both parties are so ideologically rigid (due to the extremes that the California primary system produces) as to ensure that no rational, reasonable, workable compromise is produced by that body.
July 15, 2010, 12:28 pmDavid M. Nieporent says:
There’s no 2/3 requirement to cut spending.
EDIT: I see that someone else made the same point above — but it bears repeating. Liberals keep peddling this line about the 2/3 requirement being the cause of the problem because they just take it as a given that the government should spend as much money as possible, so cutting programs isn’t in their DNA.
July 15, 2010, 12:37 pmShelbyC says:
Well, you have to work within your constraints, right? If can’t raise taxes, and you have to spend money on other things, you just spend less of the money you don’t have to. You don’t drive the state into bankruptcy? And I’m not sure why you singled out the 2/3rds requirement for criticism before, when as you say sthe mandatory spending seems to be more of a problem.
[Edit: heck, everybody’s got thoses problems: A limited ability to increase revenue, and mandatory spending on certain things. But most of us manage to live within our means.
July 15, 2010, 12:45 pmDenver says:
Given the State’s history I would suggest gold as the official mineral, but the Citizens and Politicians of California have tarnished the Golden State perhaps beyond repair.
July 15, 2010, 1:04 pmPraetorius says:
Compromise? The major source of the problem is the liberal factions (of all parties).
July 15, 2010, 1:13 pmPraetorius says:
The California Golden Poppy. No, it doesn’t make opium.
July 15, 2010, 1:14 pmPraetorius says:
Like states that have a fixed, short period for the legislature to meet. 100 days every 2 years would be good.
And the relationship between elected officials and rocks extends to all levels – witness the dumber than a boxer of rocks Senator.
July 15, 2010, 1:16 pmPraetorius says:
Like states that have a fixed, short period for the legislature to meet. 100 days every 2 years would be good.
And the relationship between elected officials and rocks extends to all levels – witness the dumber than a boxer of rocks Senator.
It used to be gold. Now it’s synthetic gold-like matter….the legislature sold all the available gold to pay the union goon salaries, and then shut down all future gold mining because it disturbed the green-titted pollwatcher, a legendary insect that might exist in the state.
July 15, 2010, 1:20 pmwolfefan says:
Hi Bob from Ohio –
I remember learning Ohio’s State Gemstone at Tippecanoe Central School. I doubt, however, that my wife would be impressed if I should give her a flint ring. She could drown her disappointment with a healthy swig of Ohio’s State Drink, tomato juice.
July 15, 2010, 1:47 pmwohjr says:
Hey JA– where’s our ClimateGate Post… you were all over it earlier only to be strangely silent now. I wonder why? Did something happen with that recently??
July 15, 2010, 1:49 pmChrisTS says:
Praetorius
Ok, but really, The Serpentine State? Hmm. Maybe that works after all.
July 15, 2010, 2:08 pmShelbyC says:
Didn’t we just have one like 2 days ago? You want another one?
July 15, 2010, 2:20 pmCrunchy Frog says:
Maybe he’s tired of the smackdown he gets from the commenters every time he broaches the subject.
July 15, 2010, 2:38 pmPubliusFL says:
California plaintiffs’ attorneys with dog bite cases should make sure to cite the fact that the dog is NOT the state animal of California.
July 15, 2010, 2:48 pmrmd says:
According to this, it is. And if you can’t trust wikipedia, well, then what’s the point of living anymore? It appears that many states have a state mineral, a state rock, and a state gemstone. Because you just can’t have too many official things. If CA has to throw serpentine under the bus (figuratively, of course; literally might be dangerous,) maybe they can substitute asphalt.
July 15, 2010, 3:37 pmRick says:
Reminds me of the “dangers of dihydrogen monoxide” that a number of politicians have fallen for.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4534017/
July 15, 2010, 3:52 pmChrisTS says:
Ahha! So, their gemstone cannot be had without the rock that they want to get rid of?
Benitoite (ben-EE-toe-ite) is a rare blue barium titanium silicate mineral, found in hydrothermally altered serpentinite.
July 15, 2010, 3:53 pmFoobarista says:
I’m all for gathering up all the serpentine I can get my hands on and chucking it at the Legislature. Since hanging’s too good for ‘em, stoning is the next best thing…
July 15, 2010, 4:56 pmJimmy S. says:
I think pyrite would be a better choice, especially for the way its common name effortlessly blends California’s past and present.
July 15, 2010, 5:47 pmLarryA says:
Obviously they’ve never been bashed by a rock. I’m available to demonstrate.
See: Hemp.
Down here in Texas it’s 140 days every odd-numbered year. Some folks are advocating turning that around; two days every 140 years.
July 15, 2010, 7:06 pmsecond history says:
Actually it does take 2/3rds to approve a budget.
July 15, 2010, 8:37 pmMichael Ejercito says:
A private business could conduct a study, if they observed a lot of people traveling from Los Angeles to San Francisco by train.
July 15, 2010, 9:20 pmbud says:
I think, like every normal (read:non-politician) person that this “issue” is ludicrous.
That said, I have to take issue with the following quote:
But geologists say chrysotile is less harmful than some other forms of asbestos, and would be a danger — like scores of other rocks — only if a person were to breathe its dust repeatedly.
The city of San Francisco, and many of the peninsula suburbs, get water from the Hetch Hetchy dam in Yosemite, and that water is locally stored in the Crystal Springs Reservoir. Local water added to that runs in over rocks of – you guessed it – serpentine. The stomach cancer rate in SF and the upper peninsula is statistically significantly higher than national rate.
Less harmful than brake dust? Probably. Harmless? I doubt it.
When I lived there, our drinking water went through a filter.
July 15, 2010, 9:20 pmRock | Little Miss Attila says:
[...] . . . on. [...]
July 15, 2010, 10:30 pmMD says:
I suppose you could eliminate entire programs that spend money by a majority vote, but to do spending cuts in the budget process (such as cutting 50% of the funding from some program), it actually does take 2/3.
If I recall correctly, only three states have a 2/3 requirement for both budget and tax increases, while several others have one or the other. It seems like one or the other can work, but they don’t work well together.
There is a proposition on the November ballot to change the 2/3 requirement to majority vote for the BUDGET ONLY, but keep it at 2/3 for taxes. Right now it is polling well.
July 16, 2010, 1:49 amTerry Trent says:
I am a biologist and a research biochemist specializing in natural occurring (NOA) “asbestos” in California. The legislature is a day late (meaning decades late) and a dollar short (meaning, well more) and working on the complete wrong subject. ADAO is not intentionally misleading, but they as a group are misleading. Natural occurring forms of asbestos occur in all states in the ground from soft friable easily airborne to hard rock hard to blow up with dynamite. In California communities have lived on all forms of natural occurring Chrysotile “asbestos” for well over 200 years. Intensive studies of death certificates shows no excess lung cancer or any excess mesothelioma at Chrysotile sites at all. San Francisco is the most contaminated Chrysotile city on earth. Yet small communities in California, inside El Dorado, Amador, Toulomne, who have lived on Tremolite asbestos deposits for only short periods, show large quantities of excess mesothelioma. Not just in humans but in animals too. Huge levels of death from a non serpentine NOA. This news regarding Tremolite was published in the newspapers, mostly front page news, in Sacramento for 8 years straight! What do the legislators do? Why they OK “asbestos” epidemics by refusing to address the problem, and they condemn the innocent serpentine rock without even realizing what they are doing. For those who don’t know, this exact same subject has nearly killed entire communities in the United States. Groups such as ADAO focusing on Chrysotile “asbestos” to the exclusion of the far more dangerous forms of “asbestos” have lead to the communities of Libby Montana and Jefferson Parish Louisiana having enormous non serpentine epidemics of human death. The legislators could actually do something useful here, but not while they are mislead by non scientists such as ADAO.
Let’s make fibrous Tremolite our State Rock!!
July 16, 2010, 2:17 amDennis N says:
As long as they’re debating the State Rock, they’re not doing greater harm. Let’s make this a full time campaign.
They should change the State Rock to Iron Pyrite – Fool’s Gold.
July 16, 2010, 11:10 amDennis N says:
I think the connection between asbestos fibers in water and stomach cancers has largely been discredited. There was a lot of attention paid to this in the campaign to eliminate asbestos cement water pipe (ACP or Transite). Cutting ACP with a pipe saw liberates a lot of dust and is probably bad for the operator, but drinking the stuff is apparently OK. The stuff is lousy pipe, but not for health reasons.
July 16, 2010, 11:16 amDuracomm says:
ruuffles said,
Just ran across another example showing that the 2/3 rule has nothing to do with california’s fiscal problems. It’s the spending.
Working on the state rock keeps the legislature from doing more damage but california’s fiscal crisis will not be solved until the legislature fixes their spending addiction.
Pension reform: Can Arnold lift SB 400?
July 18, 2010, 9:58 am