How accurate is Mark Steyn's summary of the magnitude of anti-Semitism in France? Also, can it indeed be true that the Sebastian Selam murder went unreported in the major French media? Here's what Steyn writes:
In five years' time, how many Jews will be living in France? Two years ago, a 23-year-old Paris disc jockey called Sebastien Selam was heading off to work from his parents' apartment when he was jumped in the parking garage by his Muslim neighbor Adel. Selam's throat was slit twice, to the point of near-decapitation; his face was ripped off with a fork; and his eyes were gouged out. Adel climbed the stairs of the apartment house dripping blood and yelling, "I have killed my Jew. I will go to heaven."
Is that an gripping story? You'd think so. Particularly when, in the same city, on the same night, a Jewish woman was brutally murdered in the presence of her daughter by another Muslim. You've got the making of a mini-trend there, and the media love trends.
Yet no major French newspaper carried the story.
A quick NEXIS search indeed found no references to Sebastian Selam in the French media (though I might have chosen the wrong database, or perhaps the NEXIS coverage is too spotty to be really telling). It did find references in French newspapers to the James Byrd and Matthew Shepard hate crimes in the U.S. If indeed the Selam murder wasn't reported, is there some reasonable explanation for that?
UPDATE: Sorry -- misspelled Sebastien in the paragraph above, but not in my NEXIS search, in which I searched both for Sebastien Selam (the name Steyn gave) and Sebastien Sellam (an alternate spelling I've seen).
Since I don't speak French I don't know how helpful I could be to find such references myself, but you might try searching for Sebastien Selam.
So pardon me for not taking Steyn seriously when he tries to call attention to the murder of a minority. His concern for my people (Jews, I mean) is mostly based on his depression that not enough Muslims are being slaughtered at the moment.
A google search on the correct spelling yields lots of results in french talking about the murder. I don't know French, and I don't know if any of these are from newspapers.
google
Can you cite a source for your quote as to Matthew Shepard, or to the effect that Steyn supports slaughtering Muslims?
yes, his murder isn't an urgan legend. There's just some ambiguity about what role anti-semitism played in the murder. The Ha'aretz story examines the issue pretty fully.
The short version: victim and murderer were old friends who had had a falling out. Murderer was drug-addicted and crazy and jealous of victim and also anti-semitic. Victim's mother believes the murder was motivated by anti-semitism, and she's upset that it didn't get more coverage, and she's upset that murderer was judged insane. But at least some people (including some French Jewish organizations) believe that it wasn't really predominantly motivated by anti-semitism.
As for the slaughtering Muslims, every column Steyn writes is about how we're not killing enough Muslims, or that white women need to have more babies to stop the Muslims from taking over, or both (as Tbogg summed it up). But my favorite example was his column on the 60th anniversary of Hiroshima, where he argued that America is currently too reluctant to kill civilians in the War on Terror (tm). He's a genocidal lunatic whose columns typify the Bush Cult's unique combination of bloodthirstiness and snivelling cowardice.
Looks like he screwed up by misspelling this guy's name -- what a clown!
As an occasional reader of Mark Steyn's columns, I am surprised to learn that he is monomaniacal on the subject of the genocide of Muslims and the promotion of the white birthrate. Apparently I have been reading with my eyes closed. I find him to be trenchant and controversial, but thoughtful and civil.
You are doing a good imitation of trenchant.
About a year ago, for instance, some swastikas and (barely literate) antisemitic slogans were found painted onto the walls of a meeting room in a synagogue (or Jewish community center?) in Paris. Within hours the mayor as well as the president of the republic were there on the scene making speeches condemning antisemitism generally and this incident specifically.
(Coverage of the incident continued over several days, at the end of which it finally emerged that a couple of jewish teenagers who were part of that congregation were actually responsible for the graffiti.)
Without drawing any particular conclusion, I'd also add that the last time I was in France, which is about three years ago, there was certainly a lot of anti-semitic (as well as anti-arab) graffiti in places like public bathrooms.
It looks like a reasonable source. Interestingly, there are references on a couple sites to attempts to supress this report for a time. The reason was alleged to have been that it pointed out there was a rising level of anti-semitism in Europe, and that a large part of that was due to European Muslims.
In searching for this report on the EUMC website, it really was buried where you would not find it unless you are wanting it (and know it exists).
On this page of the EUMC, there is also a second part of the study on perceptions of anti-semitism by European Jews.
Every other exhibit was prominently-displayed and out-front and done with high production-values.
The one which relatede to Jews was in a remote back-room and mounted on plywood.
It was a striking contrast and obvious that the French -- or at least the d'Orsay intellectuals -- have some odd attitudes about Jews.
Anyway, Oh, I don't think Steyn is much less amusing than Coulter. I do think more people take him seriously, which is pretty disturbing.
Here is Steyn's piece on Hiroshima (sorry for the Free Republic link, but that's basically where his stuff belongs anyway).
It would have been preferable, too, if the swarm of foreign jihadi from neighboring countries had occasionally been met with the “accidental” bombing of certain targets on the Syrian side of the border. Wars fought under absurd degrees of self-imposed etiquette are the most difficult to win – see Korea and Vietnam – and one lesson of Germany and Japan is that it’s easier to rebuild societies if they’ve first been completely smashed. Michael Ledeen, a shrewd analyst of the present conflict, likes to sign-off his essays by urging the Administration, “Faster, please”. That’s good advice. So too is: Tougher, please.
Bloodthirsty psychotic twit. Appropriate that he quotes Michael Ledeen, who is even more bloodthirsty and psychotic and a bona fide traitor to America as well (see Contra, Iran).
The incredible thing about the Bush II years is the extent to which psychotic and anti-human ideas and people are celebrated, to the point that Ledeen can get a chance to betray America again, evil anti-human lunatics like Leon Kass and Richard Neuhaus advise the President on "ethics," and John Yoo is considered a legal authority. Dark times indeed.
Even Mr Bush is somewhat constrained. National Review’s John Derbyshire wrote last week about a ‘1945 solution’ for Iraq. This is shorthand for the bombing of Dresden, the nuking of Hiroshima, etc. — the sort of stern measures that let an enemy know he’s well and truly whipped. But, as Mr Derbyshire points out, war abroad is determined by culture at home, and if we were fighting the second world war today, we wouldn’t nuke Hiroshima or even intern Japanese-Americans: the culture will not permit it. Nor will it permit old-school imperialism. Culturally sensitive nation-building is as aggressive as you can get these days.
What a pity "the culture" will not permit us to nuke or firebomb the civilians of a country we invaded. Jesus H. Christ. This passes for "indispensible" commentary for some readers of this blog?
--- This is the guy who compared the U.S. Senators to "grubby little Nazis" for requesting an Iraq exit strategy; ---
Nope, the actual quote is,
“But what do Rockefeller and Reid and Kerry believe deep down? That voting for the war seemed the politically expedient thing to do in 2002 but that they've since done the math and figured that pandering to the moveon.org crowd is where the big bucks are? If Bush is the new Hitler, these small hollow men are the equivalent of those grubby little Nazis whose whining defense was, "I was only obeying orders. I didn't really mean all that strutting tough-guy stuff."” Senate adopts ‘exit strategy’ from reality
In Steyn’s opinion, they are not "grubby little Nazis" for requesting an exit strategy, but rather for making an excuse for having voted for the war previously, rather than admitting their error.
--- spread a rumor that American Muslims knew in advance that 9/11 was going to happen ---
Steyn never claimed that American Muslims as a group knew in advance about 9/11, but stated that there were individual Muslims who did. Writing in the Daily Telegraph in November 2001, he states “Among the more interesting Muslim items this past year was a story that appeared last October 11 in the Journal News, a suburban New York newspaper. It concerned a student in a Brooklyn high school, who, on September 6, 2001, stared out of the window and told his teacher: "See those two buildings? They won't be standing there next week." Mark Steyn, We must all be more sensitive, 14/09/2002). Jonathan Alter of Newsweek stated that he has no doubt this story is true Trade Center Warning Baffles Police , and the federal government’s 9/11 commission found it to be credible.
I apologize for the misquotation, but the accurate quote is disgusting enough. I never thought that he denied that Shepard was killed because he was gay; the point is that he perpetuates the vile inhuman slander that being gay is inherently self-destructive and inevitably leads to death.
And I didn't say that he called the Senators Nazis; I said he compared them to Nazis, which is not exactly "civil."
And M.A., thanks for posting - and saving me the weekly visit to KOS, that internet forum of centrist exchange of facts and ideas.
In fairness, they were "one of the most remarkable political ads ever seen" but I use the term "remarkable" in a different manner than Herr Steyn.
As to this quote of his, "if we were fighting the second world war today, we wouldn’t nuke Hiroshima or even intern Japanese-Americans." Now that's a remarkable statement, and quite revealing. The use of the "even" is what is the mos revealing. Were I writing the column, I would reverse these. The nuking of Hiroshima is something that is controversial -- although I am firmly of the opinion that it and Nagasaki were justified under the circumstances, and what was known to Truman and his advisors at the time. I never thought, however, the interning of the Japanes was controversial, as all reasonable people, including President Reagan, had concluded long ago that it was one of the greatest mistakes in US history, and a blatant violation of several parts of the Federal Constitution. The racist Michelle Malkin has apparently changed that, and Mark Steyn views it as a bad thing that it would not have happened, "even" worse that failing to use the nuclear bomb to end a war two years earlier than expected. Wow! Furthermore, while as noted I agree that under the facts and circumstances known at the time, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified, I still don't think it is contestable that those bombings were a tragedy. Yet the "indispensable" Mark Steyn writes about them with glee and celebration, as if the very thought that a civilized culture would think twice before unleashing such horrific power on civilians is a sign of the decline of our culture. A truly sick man. And people should be ashamed that they consider him "indispensable." Disgusting.
This is the same Mark Steyn who, in reviewing a play about Matthew Shepard, wrote that "Shepard wasn't killed because he was gay, he was gay and it killed him."
So pardon me for not taking Steyn seriously
You're obviously confusing two different writers, since Mark Steyn has never said anything close to what you're quoting.
So, because you're misinformed about something that he never even said, you're "not taking Steyn seriously".
Pardon us for not taking *you* seriously.
You did not just state he compared them to Nazis, but stated he did so for a particular reason; “for requesting an Iraq exit strategy.” That is not what he said.
I agree with you that Steyn statement was disgusting. Steyn’s assumption that the typical gay person dies of AIDS by thirty has no basis in reality. With that said, one should not use quotation marks, unless it is a direct quote.
You did not just state he compared them to Nazis, but stated he did so for a particular reason; “for requesting an Iraq exit strategy.” That is not what he said.
I agree with you that Steyn statement was disgusting. Steyn’s assumption that the typical gay person dies of AIDS by thirty has no basis in reality. With that said, one should not use quotation marks, unless it is a direct quote.
Or if you're maureen dowd
Thank you for the link to the article about the 60th anniversary of the bombing of Nagasaki.
While I do not agree that the bombing of Nagasaki was right, the opinion that it was does not put Mr. Steyn beyond the pale. Although you no doubt think differently. It is interesting to see that in your Inferno, Steyn is joined by Father Neuhaus and Michael Ledeen. Who else is there, may I ask? Norman Podhoretz? Christopher Hitchens?
By the way, you yourself are not British, by any chance? Something about your, mm, palette, made me wonder.
Your characterization of Mark Steyn as a "genocidal racist" is utterly groundless and without merit. In what world is noting the fact that the American public of today would not condone nuking Hiroshima or Nagasaki equal to lamenting that fact?
Not in this world.
As for his alleged "cherry picking" of anti-semitism in Europe...well, I don't know what you mean by that. Europe's history is one of ghettoization of Jews, of religious, political and economic persecution of Jews, and of, finally, a serious and nearly successful attempt to exterminate the Jews of Europe. Why anyone would expect a continent-sized leopard to change it's two thousand year old spots in the blink-of-an-eye that's transpired since 1945 is utterly beyond me.
Blockade has its own moral issues, as the Germans tried to remind people after World War One. But it is a far cry from incinerating infants. Our war crimes in WW2, by being swept under the rug, have helped us forget that Americans can be war criminals too, and facilitated the influence of the John Woos of the world.
time elapsed: ~3 hrs
time to file the report with kos
Merde in France used to catalogue anecdotal evidence of anti-semitism, though that site started in Nov 2002. Twenty-four references came up when I googled anti-semitism in conjunction with site:merdeinfrance.blogspot.com. There might be more if you use "antisemitism." I checked the first several and they related to French incidents, though some were about French Muslims, which I don't think is what you are really asking about.
To follow from August 2004 onward, when Merde moved to No Pasaran you'd have to do the same search using that site.
Merde and No Pasaran are not for the multiculti crowd and while I don't consider their plethora of anecdotal evidence an indication of it running rampant in France, overly deliberate French denial of it, coupled with what violence there is, the property destruction/defacement and indication of an uptick in Jewish emigration from France, ought to at least hint there is a significant anti-semitism issue there.
Agreed. My apologies for that.
It's called reading comprehension; some of us have it. Read the linked article, it clearly was lamenting that fact, and lamenting that the American public would "not even support" interning the Japanese. As I noted above, I personally believe the bombings of both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were justified under the circumstances, but regardless they were tragedies. That Steyn thinks it's lamentable that our culture would have serious doubts about again unleashing such horror on civilians says a lot about what gets him off. Combine that with his clear obsession with homosexuality and you got one sick dude.
according to a friend of mine who has lived and worked in France, it is never to far from the surface.
And I agree with M.A.'s point about cherry-picking certain events. Bottom line: the visceral hatred of some on the right for France and the French that led us to such proud moments as "freedom fries" and Bill O'Reilly making up the "Paris Business Review" as entirely bogus support that his "boycott" of France was working -- and etc. -- blinds these folks, and makes their claims pretty much worthless regarding any serious issue involving France or, often, Europe generally.
Your "reading comprehension" insult was very sweet. A thousand thanks. Just keep doin' what you do and the converts to your way of thinking will continue to number in the dozens.
-Anderson
I'm confused, American atrocities in Asia unduly encouraged the spread of violent kung fu movies? Unforgivably gave rise to Mission: Impossible II? Shit, we better get out of Iraq before Zarqawi remakes Face/Off.
http://www.col.fr/breve-622.html
But IMHO it is ludicrous to claim that an author's opinion that "we need more of the attitudes/war strategy of 1945" is equivalent to a call for the use of nuclear weapons. I mean, come on, Tom Brokaw has made a literary career going on and on about how we need more of the spirit of the 1945 generation. Is Brokaw a wingnut?
IMHO, it is clearly and factually true that we are fighting the war on terror and we fought in Kosovo, Bosnia, Somalia, the first Gulf War, and Vietnam with a "limited war" strategy quite different from the "total war"/"unconditional surrender" strategy used in WWII. It is not or should not be controversial to point that out to a historically literate audience. And I have heard a great many reasonable conservatives make similar statements, that the problem in Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, etc. is that it doesn't make sense to fight a war when you don't think it's important enough to use the extreme means of total war. In many ways, the Powell Doctrine is based on this: instead of saying there are some wars worth fighting with extreme violence and overwhelming force, and some worth fighting in limited, carefully calibrated ways, Colin Powell has spent a career arguing that we should only fight the wars involving overwhelming force and stay out of the limited wars completely. And I personally think that if we had a little more 1945-style unconditional surrender/fight for a real victory in the first Gulf War, it would have saved both the US and Iraq a lot of trouble and a lot of sanctions-related and combat deaths.
Steyn may well be a despicable wingnut for other reasons; I don't read enough of his work to know. But if saying that our strategy in WWII was better than our strategy in the War on Terror makes you a wingnut, well, I suspect a lot of Democratic veterans and senators must be wingnuts too.
I googled and found this.
I also remember an article in Azure magazine about inter-religious cooperation in Marseilles; however, the title has slipped my mind, thus doing me little good.
That said, I would favor placing John Woo in charge of our detention policies, and placing John Yoo in charge of overseeing simulated violence.
does this make them antisemitic today? not necessarily, but the ingrained insularity of their culture has preserved this sense, as well as made the incredibly stratified french society far more vulnerable to riots.
1). Used Yahoo.fr to search for 'Sebastien Selam'. Only references found were in blogs and music pubs (apparently he was a popular DJ).
2). Several years ago, when in France, I became friendly with a Jewish family. Their goal was to get out of France because, as they said, it was like living in Germany in 1933. They now live in Florida.
If I have converted "dozens" I would be quite proud. Unlike Christian and Muslim fundamentalists, I have no interest in converting anyone -- not everyone thinks like a right-wing fanatic. Further, were I interested in converting people to my view of the world, I would not be trying by posting anonymously under a dated pseudonym on Professor Volokh's site. Thanks for the compliment however. Much appreciated.
Don't forget Hannah Arendt on the eagerness of the Romanians, who appalled the Germans by loading up Jews in sealed boxcars and just letting them starve/asphyxiate therein, rather than delivering them to death camps for a more Teutonically managed death.
Reminds me of the definition of racist as one who has won an argument with a liberal.
Canada's National Post had a series of articles on French Jews immigrating to Canada due to a deteriorating situation in France. The series highlighted, especially in its first article, complaints that assaults and arson against the Jewish community tend to not be viewed as anti-semitic unless there is overwhelming evidence. The articles by Mireille Silcoff are here http://tinyurl.com/7te3g , http://tinyurl.com/7kptk, and http://tinyurl.com/hk9f3.
Le Monde's site search as well as Google does not provide any link to a story on Sebastien Sellam's murder. Lemonde.fr does have two links, not around the time for his murder, that seem to be about his music (they are subscriber only, so I was unable to read them, despite being fluent in French). Lefigaro.fr's archives search provides no article containing "Sebastien Sellam" or "Sebastien Selam".
The anecdotal evidence presented in The National Post series does seem disturbing, especially the mandates by a Jewish private school that no student is to wear any distinguishbale symbol of Judaism when walking to school, not to dress in a stereotypical "Jappy" manner. Further disturbing is that a Jewish private school feels it necessary to have no distinguishing markings on its building that would identify it as a Jewish place.
I am disturbed that so many commenters here felt it necessary to dispute an author's reliability for civilly stated views that are for the most part centre right, if not purely centrist. A complete unwillingness to deal with people who disagree with you slightly and who are discussing the appropriate way to conduct a war is not the sign of a broad or deep mind. Ad hominems with respect to one's genocidal intent when arguing for a more agressive prosecution of a war is not a "centre-left" stance. It is rather more reminiscent of Students for a Democratic Society or the Winter Soldier hearings: a radical leftist stance that is in no way interested in rational discourse.
It's only slander if it's not true. But being gay does lead to death. As does being straight. Being human leads to death, as far as I can tell.
Now, if someone wishes to defined premature death, and then look at different demographics, we can get all controversial and stuff. But as for the plain "leads to death" statement, well, gee, of course we all die.
I'm pretty sure that gays also have a lower life expectancy. Again, it's not a moral judgment, but just a very sad statistic. I don't know if that's how Steyn meant it - maybe it's not - but quoting a fact can hardly be bigoted.
While I am sure anti-semitism exists in France, anti-Arab behavior is far more prevalant. Refusal to enter nightclubs, difficulty in the job market, and a general regard as an inferior race is commonplace for Arabs. Generally not for Jews.
Is it any wonder that the 16th Arrondissment of Paris is dominated by Jews and the 18th/19th are dominated by Northern and sub-Saharan Africans? Anyone see the the socioeconomic differences there? Visit the law schools of the country too. Predominantly white, few Arabs and extremely proportionate Jewish representation. (I won't say disproportionate since i don't have exact numbers).
Prof. Volokh, while I appreciate the democratic nature of your Blog, I find it hard to believe that you give much press time at all to a writer who is best at distorting or even inventing the facts in order to present an ideology. Note his article(s) on the Paris riots from 4 months back. A middle age Arab conspiracy coming to life now? Please...Steyn is the pot calling the kettle black. Anti-arab, anti everything unless it's about him.
The Sébastien Sellam on the google search you linked doesn't appear to offer any major French news outlets as sources for the story.
It mostly refers you to various Jewish sources and to French chat rooms. One such had people complaining that they just heard about the story from some private source.
There are also links to Sébastien Sellam as a disc jokey and the kinds of songs he played.
It seems that Steyn is right about the story getting scant coverage.
Put on a yarmulka and walk down any French street during the day and see how people will treat you. However, I wouldn't advise you to do it in an Arab area since you may be risking a physical attack.
Nice post, good to see some rationality amidst the Europhobes.
Thanks to the person above, for reminding me of Mark Steyn's embarassing attempt to spread the Urban Legend of Muslim schoolchildren (who knew what was to happen) in an adjacent building laughing &snaping photographs as the two towers fell. The Muslim revamp of the "Jews knew about 9/11" conspiracy smear, apparantly doesen't prevent one from acceptance in polite conservative company.
My favorite Steyn quote, was when he was writing about the D.C. sniper case, and trying to tie it into the greater war on terror, he said "Any time a Muslim holds up a convenience store it should be considered Jihad"
Darling of the Right.
Can you back up your assertion as to “Mark Steyn's embarassing attempt to spread the Urban Legend of Muslim schoolchildren (who knew what was to happen) in an adjacent building laughing &snaping photographs as the two towers fell.”?
As I noted above, he did write in the Daily Telegraph in November 2001, “Among the more interesting Muslim items this past year was a story that appeared last October 11 in the Journal News, a suburban New York newspaper. It concerned a student in a Brooklyn high school, who, on September 6, 2001, stared out of the window and told his teacher: "See those two buildings? They won't be standing there next week." Mark Steyn, We Must All Be More Sensitive, Daily Telegraph, 14/09/2002. However, that is not the same thing as what you are claiming he said. While I have not read everything that he wrote, unless you show me otherwise, I am fairly confident that you are misrepresenting Mark Steyn.
There definitely was a valid point to nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Check out the book Tenozan by George Feifer, about the battle of Okinawa, and look up the word "Teruachi" in the index.
Terauchi was the Japanese field marshall in charge of the Imperial Japanese Army's southern group of forces, which included Burma, Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, and Singapore. He had received instructions to begin the massacres of all Allied prisoners of war, interned Allied civilians, and all Allied civilians his forces could catch, effective when the British invaded Japanese-occupied Malaya. That was planned for late September 1945.
The Allies knew this because they had intercepted and decoded the radio message from Imperial General Headquarters in Tokyo to Field Marshal Teruachi. This had major, major, repercussons.
The A-bombs were only one of those. Had those not induced surrender, or been unavailable, the worst case scenario would have happened. Here it is:
I wrote that. You can check the sources for yourself.
Sometimes knowing French comes in handy...
"a Jewish woman was brutally murdered in the presence of her daughter by another Muslim . . .Yet no major French newspaper carried the story"
DOH! That's right, keep doing research on different spellings of "Sebastien" and "Selam".
tdjs naiiled it in this comment
(Sellam murderer was crazy in the true meaning of the word, interned several times)
It's true that it was not widely covered in the major medias, but for Le Parisien (Paris main local daily), because it has been considered like just an 'ordinary' gruesome murder. Note also that it's not uncommon for french news paper to keep the real names of victims a secret (a form of respect for the relatives). In that case, some articles reported the murder but did not give Sellam's name. (and thus do not show up on a google search).
I wont comment on Steyn's anlysis accuracy (as a frenchman I may be suspected of being biased...), but I cant comment on Iliam Halimi murder. That one was hugely reported and commented. by the press, the politicians and the governement. Steyn's claim that the antisemitic dimension of the case has been denied is just plain false. The investigative magistrate has explicitly raised the racist motive among the charges. the Pdt, the PM, the Interior Minister, the whole press acknowledged and condemned Halimi's rapt and murder as motivated by antisemitism (and greed. The assumption of the criminals being : jews = a wealthy community that will pay). Tens of thousands people rallied in 'silent marches' in several french cities this week end.