Yikes, sorry about the triple trackback.

Michael Greenspan

Reminds me of tonight's Colbert Report Special Report.

Llamasex: I appreciate your thoughtfulness and your good intentions. But tell me: Are the jokes funny?

Perhaps the true gag is that the jokes are definitely unfunny? So this amounts to something my fellow Austrians might call an 'Ueber-Schmaeh' (meta-joke)?

Of course, one of the early observations I made growing up in a Northern New Jersey neighborhood equal parts jewish and equal parts italian is that there really isn't much of a difference between the two cultures.

Sure, jews go to temple on Saturday, not church on Sunday, and some have funny rules about the food they eat (though no funnier than the fish on Friday deal) but in both of those jokes, the gag could also be true of your average Italian. Heck, I would imagine the jokes hold true for any subculture originating in the Mediterranean.

This Protestant is completely mystified, no idea what those jokes are getting at.

Cornellian, the jokes are poking fun at the various stereotypical neuroses of Jews. (I say this, incidentally, as a stereotypically neurotic Jew.) The jokes are funny to Jews because the stereotyped Gentiles in them are acting so, well ... normal, compared to the way a stereotypical Jew would behave in the same situation.

A Gentile man calls his elderly mother.
He asks, " Mom, how are you feeling? Do you need anything?"
She says, "I'm feeling fine, and I don't need anything. Thanks for calling."

This one really cracked me up.

I've heard Eric's story, but without any Jews in it,e.g., as an illustration of what ethics are. It's funnier without the Jews.

A true "Jewish mother" story: I went to high school with a guy who was involved in an armed robbery a few years after we graduated. He was the "inside man" at the store that was robbed. He was convicted and sent off to the state penitentiary for 5 years or so.

A few years into his prison term, my mom bumped into his mom in the grocery store. My mom asked, a bit uncomfortably, how her son was doing. "Great," said my friend's mom. "In fact, he was just elected president of his cell block."

I kid you not. This really happened.

Well....
As they were laid out as Jewish jokes, I thought I got 'em... but then the post comment about them being about jews, not gentiles, threw me; now I'm not so sure.

1. Joke due to 'no haggle'

2. If that were a Jewish mother?!!!!

If I'm wrong... I blame it all on the Stiller Comedian family.

Actually, I understood the first joke to be implying that it would be ridiculous to bargain over the sticker price of a jacket, but we Jews might do that anyway. The "joke" of both jokes (the jacket one and the mom one) is that we're telling a story of "Gentiles" doing 100% normal things (buying a jacket without arguing about the sticker price; cancelling plans with mom without getting a hard time for it) as if it's odd to us Jews.

I suppose that if one normally bargained over the price of a jacket, then the first joke could be interpreted as, "we Jews know to bargain." Having never paid more than $300 for any jacket, suit, or other article of clothing, I have no idea what sort of bargaining might ordinarily ensue at the sort of establishents selling $500 jackets.

Like oil and water, law professors and comedy seem not to mix. ;-)

It's comical in itself and naive to think that a "joke" which empahsizes an unpleasant trait -- being cheap and stingy or cheating both a customer and a partner -- is somehow complimentary to Jews (or anyone.)

Now there are some riffs which poke fun and are also funny, such as the one about two Jews discussing something abd coming up with three opinions. But most things which "poke" have an edge.

Most of these "jokes" play up a purported and negative stereotype. Why is it somehow "funny" that Jews are indeed often neurotic? Might one not be slightly neurotic after two thousand years of bullshit from Christians and Moslems? Of course I never did get Woody Allen -- I thought he lacked self-awareness.

Six of One,

When you make a comment like that, you kind of effectively end the conversation, because I can't even respond to you substantively or I'm at risk of sounding like a racist too.

Anyway, if you have a beef with ethnic jokes, you might try a lighter touch. Personally, as a Protestant myself (if in name only), I'm quite interested to be privy to the jokes that we normally don't hear.

After all, you may think they should keep their jokes to themselves, but most people would probably say you should have kept your own comment to yourself...

The most insightful comedy about any group usually comes from within the group. It's cliche today to see Blacks make fun of other Blacks, etc. Jews have been doing this for so long that most gentiles readily understand the inside jokes.

I'm waiting for the moment when it becomes Ok for people outside the group to poke fun at a group again. I can tell from this string that we are a long way away from that.

"Anyway, if you have a beef with ethnic jokes, you might try a lighter touch. Personally, as a Protestant myself (if in name only), I'm quite interested to be privy to the jokes that we normally don't hear.

After all, you may think they should keep their jokes to themselves, but most people would probably say you should have kept your own comment to yourself..."

Oh lighten up Marcus!

Do you think I seriously want "them" to keep "their" jokes to themselves? Humor enlightens. My comments were meant to be inclusionary: come join us. Your daughters might like the freedom of driving a truck cross-country; some of your hardier sons might like to work construction and build things with their hands and bodies.

"We get it; you're different from us." There's usually a kernel of truth found in humor. This is what I found here, in these jokes.

Finally, why is it that you tell me to shush up when you don't like to hear what I say? Can't you take a different opinion, or can you only take it when it comes from "them"?

Truth be told, united people have more fun when they don't think in "them" and "us" terms. That's why something like sex is such a universal joke. Get it?

Houston Lawyer: One recent (excellent) example is Mel Brook's "The Producers" which managed to poke fun at Jews, old people, gays, nazis, Germans, blacks, and Broadway insiders, not to mention stereotype Swedes and accountants. The show managed to win a record number of Tonys as well as a pretty good box office return. I think that like you, many people just want comedy to be comedy again: an equal opportunity offender.

I used to date a (hypersensitive) Jew, but he did share one Jewish joke with me:
Q: How many Jewish mothers are needed to screw in a light bulb?
A: None. I'll just sit quietly in the dark.

Oh, fer cryin' out loud, people, these are just jokes. Stop trying to find some deep, sinister meaning to them.

I'm Mormon and I got the Jewish mother jokes right off, partly because I've met some Mormon mothers who share the same characteristics. Humans tend to react the same way to the same situations, regardless of their different backgrounds.

Wenn ist das Nunstruck git und Slotermeyer? Ja!...
Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!

Ralph,

wow, big question. maybe try a book by Dennis Prager and Rabbi Joseph Telushkin "Why the Jews?".

Their thesis is that it is twofold. One source is hating the "other", because by virtue of our beliefs we have always had to be a little bit different than those around us. We eat differently, dress sometimes differently, and we pray on a different sabbath. In Ancient times we were the only ones who had only one god.

Combine that with the relative success the jews have always had in whichever society they lived. There might be many reasons for this. jews valued literacy and education before many other societies did. And for a group that was not allowed to own land or work the land, crafts/professions/education/literacy/trade is the only thing left. Also, there might be a factor that since it was hard to live as the ostracized group, the only ones who survived unassimilated and unconverted were the stronger and more successful ones. After all, there are only about as many jews today as there were during Roman times despite the growth of the rest of the worlds population.

The Python joke had me laughing out loud.

Fortunately, I did not die.

One more for the road.

Q: What is a Jewish sweater?
A: It's a sweater a Jewish mother puts on her son when she's cold.

Many, many years ago, Playboy had some WASP jokes (I, of course, read it for the jokes, the same way most guys do for the short stories). I remember two:

Q. What do you call a WASP girl who makes love once a year?
A. A nymphomaniac.


Q. If there's one WASP at an orgy, how do you tell who he is?
A. He's the one washing the grapes.

I'm a Polish-surnamed Catholic myself. I enjoy Catholic jokes, but not Polish jokes, perhaps because the "point" of every Polish joke that I've heard is that Poles are stupid.

And mothers as martyrs certainly cross all of cultural boundaries.

Silicon:

I don’t get the second WASP joke. I’m missing the stereotype it plays on. If it means WASP as opposed to Jew, you’d think it’d be the Jew who was obsessing over cleanliness rather than partaking in the fun of the orgy… unless I’m just hanging with the wrong Jews.

JohnG: The connection is just a free association connection. David posts something about anti-Semitic jokes. A commenter notes how much of Jews' own humor pokes fun at Jews (which is probably true as to many other ethnicities, too). I was reminded of the Gentile jokes. That's all there is to it.

Two elderly Jews toddle up to a park bench, sit down laboriously and lean on their canes. Half an hour of dead silence passes. Then one of them says, "Oy." Another half hour of silence goes by, and he again says, "Oy." Yet another half hour of silence ensues, and yet again he says, "Oy," at which point the other man says, "If you're going to talk politics all day, I'm leaving."

Two old jews, Moshe and Eshe, are driving around one weekend looking for something to do, just bored.

They pass by a church, with a sign outside that says "Conversions - We pay $100." So Moshe says to Eshe, "why don't you go in, you get converted, it won't mean anything, you'll still be a Jew, but we'll get the $100 and go to the movies.

So Eshe says "OK," goes into the church.

An hour goes by, and Moshe is getting pretty bored sitting in the car.

Another hour, and Moshe's starting to get annoyed.

A third hour, and Moshe says "that's it, I'm giving him ten more minutes then he can drive himself home."

A few minutes later, Eshe comes out of the church, gets in the car silently, and they drive off.

Annoyed at his friend's lack of regard, Moshe asks "What the hell took you so long? Did you at least get the hundred dollars?"

"You people are all alike," Eshe replies.

A classic New York genre joke ala Jackie Mason:

I got a cousin -- half Jewish -- half Italian. If he can't get it wholesale -- he steals it.

Raw_Data: "Of course I never did get Woody Allen -- I thought he lacked self-awareness."

I would say you definitely didn't get Woody Allen if that's your take--his main schtick is his really crippling amounts of self-awareness (usually meta-self-awareness, though, Allen-the-writer poking fun at Allen-the-movie-doppleganger's lack of self-awareness about his neuroses and hangups). You can see this especially in his earlier stuff.

If Woody Allen, at this point in his analysis, lacks self-awareness, he has quite a malpractice claim.

I'm Jewish and was struck by the mixture of ethnic similarity and difference in a joke I heard at a retirement party for an Upper Midwesterner of Scandenavian descent:

At the end of a party, Norwegians [or perhaps Swedes] say goodby and then don't leave for another hour. But nobody says anything during the hour.

My favotite

A Catholic Preist and a Rabbi were riding in a car together. They see this very good looking young man in very tight fitting shorts jogging.

The preist gets all exited and says to the rabbi - "lets screw that guy"
rabbi says " out of what"

It's a Jewish stereotype that Jews are pushy and cheap.

Not sure you intended to say that this stereotype about Jews originated with Jews. I grew up in NOrthern England in the Forties and Fifties, and I heard every single day things like:

"You Jew," referring to someone who was stingy.

"You lucky Jew," referring to someone who had reaped good fortune of a material nature.

"He jewed him out of it," referring to one who cheated another.

These terms were applied to anyone supposedly exhibiting these traits, Jewish or not. Obviously, tbere was no humor intended. Obviously, they revealed a dim view of Jews. Obviously, they were bigotry.

Most children used these terms without knowing their real meaning; they learned them from their elders. At about age five, I used "lucky Jew" in the presence of our faithful family coctor, who was Jewish and making one of his numrous house calls to care for me, a lovely man who deserved nothing but respect and gratitude. My mother ripped me for it, and I was mortified. That was when I learned who Jews were and what anti-Semitism was.

I don't know how common this is in England today. In those days, the English didn't have West Indians, Africans,, Pakistanis and the like to pick on, at least not where I lived near Manchester. Jews may have been displaced in the stereotypers' pecking order.

Perhaps if one comes from a time and place where anti-Semitism was rife, it's more difficult to share in humor built on negative stereotypes about Jews. I have lived in Los Angeles for 40 years, my former wife and two children are Jewish, but I would never dream of telling jokes like the ones Eugene poited. If Jews want to post that kind of humor, fine, But it's not for me to do it.

My partner had all of these jokes sent to him by family before this thread, so he sent me another to share:

A Jewish man was riding on the subway reading an Arab newspaper. A friend of his, who happened to be riding in the same subway car, noticed this strange phenomenon. Very upset, he approached him and said: "Moshe, have you lost your mind? Why are you reading an Arab newspaper?"

Moshe replied, "I used to read the Jewish newspapers, but what did I find? Jews being persecuted, Israel being attacked, Jews disappearing through assimilation and intermarriage, Jews living in poverty!

So I switched to the Arab newspaper. Now what do I find? Jews own all the banks, Jews control the media, Jews are all rich and powerful, Jews rule the world. The news is so much better!"

Is Jewish humor based on our outrage over negative stereotypes others force upon us, or on our own (affectionate) chiding of ourselves for our various real quirks? The answer is: Both.

Look at the characters on "Seinfeld," who have a selfish and self-indulgent side but also an altruistic side (but seem to goof things up the most when trying to do the right thing). Or the lead in "Curb Your Enthusiasm," a more or less decent guy who can't help getting into situations in which he behaves abysmally.

Maybe it's the tension between these two that makes Jewish humor so universal -- we're all flawed people who wish we were better, but often fail at the attempt.