As quoted in the New York Post — "Kids, for whatever reason, think they're entitled to go right to the top with $50,000 or $75,000 jobs when they have not done anything to earn their way up .... A lot of kids don't know what work is. They think work is a four-letter word.... We've got to send a different message to our young people. America didn't happen by accident. A lot of people worked really hard. They've got to do their part, too."
Kids these days! Why, when I was a kid — walk to school — snow, six feet deep — both ways — shoveled manure for the pennies that I could find in it — grumble grumble grumble — o tempora, o mores . . . .
(By the way, I agree with the sentiment starting with "America didn't," and for all I know she's right about kids' attitudes these days — I just thought it was funny.)
UPDATE: Commenter Riskable writes:
I'd just like to point out a simple fact that everyone else seems to have missed: One has only to point a finger at the preceding generation to find exactly who is to blame for "kids these days."
"We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!"
Frankly, today's kids are impoverished relative to those who graduated from school ten years ago, got options in dot-coms that traded to the moon and had the luck or foresight to sell their stock before their employers went bankrupt.
Its amazing we turn out as many good kids as we do.
My first job was mowing grass at a local cemetery for 0.75 cents per hour (with a gas powered push mower). I'm since gotten all the way up to a $1.50 per hour since college.
Says the "Dog"
That sounds like a Job Americans Won't Do...
I mean of course no one wants spoiled brats running around but the idea that all kids who end up getting 50-100k straight from college are spoiled is absurd (well at least any more spoiled than americans in general are spoiled). Just because one isn't doing physical labor doesn't mean one isn't investing energy and effort in studying or some other activity.
This entire line of thought disgusts me. Where are the people complaining that the current generation is spolied because they grew up with indoor plumbing and didn't have to do manual labor in the fields? This sort of whining is always relative to the generation doing the whining and it seems to me nothing but sublimated jealousy. I mean if you had to work when you were a kid it makes one feel better to transform this into a virtue rather than being jealous of the next generation who has it better (in some ways) than you did. You can see the same thing in attitudes toward sex, people see the next generation having more sex than they did (exagerated of course) and would rather transform their lack of opportunity into a virtue than admit they missed out on something.
I used to like Hillary but slowly I am getting more and more annoyed with her as she adopts stupid sentiments in an attempt to move right.
You beat me to it!
Great minds . . .
At the very least her sentiment seems disingenuous.
Several years later, I noticed that the notices posted near dorm cafeterias for student jobs stayed up the entire year. One student a few years below me said she was short of cash, but when I pointed out the cafeteria was hiring, she was disdainful; she wouldn't lower herself to work in food service.
Some sort of generational break happened there. Was it that the early 1990s were the first time children of baby boomers saturated the undergraduate population?
I think you're right, it should be "high dudgeon" -- EV made a mistake. Unless, he's referring to "Lord High Crumudgeon" (gets a single hit on Google).
I am sure she supports a minimum wage, but I have not seen her call for higher wages regardless of skills and guaranteed wages and so on and so on.
No,no,no; "High Dudgeon" is the name of my retirement home.
I don't particularly like her and would never vote for her, but clearly the type of people HC would want to get gov't benefits are not the type of people who think they are "going right to the top." She's complaining about middle or upper-middle class college grads, not people on welfare. My personal experience with the type of kids she's talking about here is that they BOTH expect to do well quickly AND work hard. There is a sense of entitlement but most can't actually get jobs paying 70K right out of college without ability and work. And let's not forget that even if HC herself came from at least some money, her husband, for all his many faults, is a truly self-made man. Would EV have written this column if Bush had said these same words? Probably not.
In other words, get a sense of humor!
Yup, that's it. EV could've put some quotations around "curmudgeon" for those of us who are without a "hint of levity" in our soles, though.
(wink wink!)
That is totally inaccurate. I demanded $77,000 when I graduated. And now I'm commenting here instead of working.
Anyway, the whole point of America is to eliminate work. That's we invent labor-saving devices.
God I love this country.
$75k isn't that much, for a smart person, by mid-twenties, assuming one is optimizing for wealth. I was well above that when I was 27. I've since discovered that money isn't everything, and make less now. I'm also capable of having a relationship now, which is well worth the opportunity cost.
Desire vs. sense of entitlement. Gee, I wonder where Hillary v. Dubya would fall on that scale? Nothing flattering to anyone, I'm sure.
Many of them also think hard work means longer PowerPoint presentations.
On the other hand, I think the Baby Boomers are generally an extremely greedy group who have transformed CEO and partner pay into the pay of Kings and Queens, and now they are working their children like slaves (eg, 1st yr accounting – 45k/yr, 55+ hr/week) to keep the payout coming.
But then, maybe this is no different than the relationship between previous generations?
I wouldn’t know.
These days it is difficult to find teenage babysitters in my former subdivision. The kids' allowances are so high they have no perceived need to work.
The real issue here is that we, as a nation, are so much wealthier than we were just a generation before. Parents can afford to provide so much more to their children.
Most politicians are relatively out of touch with the issues facing their constituents. What are the big issues facing most Americans?
Health care - taken care of for our elected reps
Gas prices - taken care of for our elected reps
Competition from [undocumented][illegal] immigrants -
none running for office in my district
National security - dunno - are those black SUVs bulletproof?
As it relates to tax policy, no one wants to have their taxes raised. Unfortunately, the situation right now is one of deferral, and the ones whose taxes are being implicitly raised are those who have no vote -- our children.
Se
Now, if she's referring to mere high school graduates who expect high paying jobs their first year after graduation, she's right. But I haven't heard about too many high school graduates who expect jobs paying $50K-$75K.
If Hillary wants to complain about the effects of cable tv, Internet, cell phones, iPods (and I'll add the ubiquitous ATM cards) on child/teen attitudinal development she may be talking to the right crowd but, as is usual, she's got the wrong target in her sights. On that score, however, it is a rare day when you see a politician actually criticize his audience ala Bill Cosby; I love to see her give the same spiel at the next high school event she schedules.
But if the kids actually paid/contributed to the cost of all those instant gratification vehicles themselves (and fund the accounts the ATM cards are attached to), then who is she to criticize?
All in all, whether her intention is to veer right or left, Hillary can't seem to shake wanting to run other people's lives for them.
Over the past 5 years that I have been doing this type of job I have had a very positive experience with the young people that have worked for me.
They are more concerned with a balanced work/personal life then I remember being at their age (I am 41)and so they generally avoid working late hours, but they want to do a good job and care about the quality of their work and, when necessary, will stay late and/or come in early.
As far as salary goes, $50,000 sounds like a lot when I consider that I made about $17,000 when I graduated in 1987. But it costs a lot to live in a major city like Chicago. Almost all of the people that work for me have at least one roommate. Many of them have substantial student loans to pay for.
The fact is it's not that they feel entitled to $50,000 per year, it's that they need it to support themselves in a world of $3+ gas, $800+ 1-bedroom apartments, and $4 beers. If you live in New York or San Franciso it's even worse.
"Now, if she's referring to mere high school graduates who expect high paying jobs their first year after graduation, she's right. But I haven't heard about too many high school graduates who expect jobs paying $50K-$75K."
WHOA there, Nelly! Do you have any idea how few college students pay $40K a year for four years? Pretty darn few, that's how many. The vast majority of folks go to a modest school at a modest price.
You trustifarians and your expensive private universities are in no way illustrative of the general higher education experience of Americans.
Oh, it's been done
As for expectations, the average graduate in my field was making 48k when I started school. Being better than average in H.S, of course I expected to be making 50-75k a year. Especially when people I know WERE making those sums on graduation. Expectations are not made in a vacuum. The real problem is the Laise Faire attitude (SP?)I've seen is in those who CHOOSE not to go to college.
I went to an ivy league school in the early 90's, and the ONLY people getting 50-75K out of college were the ones who had worked hard all their lives to excel in school, AND had chosen the 70-100 hours/week jobs. Salaries were not being handed out like candy. Plus, most of the people with the $50K + salaries were living in expensive cities. I had a salary in that range and I had difficulty affording life in NYC; I improved my standard of living dramatically by going back to grad school with a $15K/yr stipend in a cheaper city.
I understand salaries have gotten higher, but, IMHO, today's college graduates in major cities are going to have a much harder time and longer delays in buying their first houses than was true 10,20, or 30 years ago.
Oops! My apologies; priority ceded ;-)
As other posters note, that may be in part because said degree costs, in tuition and lost opportunity, in the $200k range.
Among those I know from high school (particuarly those who came from affluent backgrounds), there's often a sense of disappointment at the prospects available upon graduation, and a surprisingly high percentage take sales jobs (insurance, mortgage, real estate particularly) because of the (usually false) promise of quick riches. When that fails, they often become disillusioned. Those who have family wealth to fall back on often stop working entirely. I have no idea what will ultimately become of them (many end up applying to law school).
So I think she's right that something's going on with the psyche of much of America's "elite" youth. But I don't think it's aversion to *work* per se. After all, my generation is putting in extraordinary hours in a variety of capacities (from getting into college to working at firms), and by and large I don't think we work less than prior generations did. (Although, watching Survivor, it often seems that young people don't want to work at all.) I think it's more a despair that sets in when our high expectations are proved false and we've got few interesting options.
I suspect that a big part of this is the increasing gap between what is taught in college and what is sought in the workplace. Science / engineering and econ types fared quite well. But those who buy into the notion that we should be seeking a liberal arts education find employment harder to secure. The law remains perhaps the best avenue (and I've done more than well for myself there), and I suspect that that may explain some of the unhappiness among lawyers as well: many wind up at law school because it's the only way to do well for oneself with a degree in the humanities.
Ah well.
That, combined with the realization that many knowledge and intelligence-based jobs can be provided by lower-cost workers overseas, helps to erode the motivation of highly educated workers. The industry I work in (financial services) is increasingly outsourcing "entry level" jobs to India; a number of lawyers I know tell me that their firms are also outsourcing many functions to providers in India.
I am not decrying this trend, nor suggesting that it can or should be reversed, but I think that it is somewhat demoralizing for people who have busted their ass for 17 years of school to graduate and find a crappy, dull job market when they see people who have rolled the dice and made out like bandits.... Of course, you never see the ones who rolled the dice and came up craps.
One has only to point a finger at the preceding generation to find exactly who is to blame for "kids these days".
-Riskable
http://riskable.com
"I have a license to kill -9"
The bubble commenters on this blog live in amazes me. In posts about judicial salaries we are regularly told that $170k is not enough to support a family. Now $40k is "crap."
Brain farts are strange things.
Nevermind.
-Riskable (Age 28)
http://riskable.com
"I have a license to kill -9"
Has anyone else noticed that this sort of sentiment seems prevalent, both in this thread an in the world at large? Excuse a starry-eyed student for thinking there might be more to this whole eduction thing than 'future earning potential'.
When employers require a degree for thoughtless jobs, thoughtless people will seek degrees. This creates a market for thoughtless collegiate programs and forces the thoughtful colleges to adapt to the growing desire for thoughtless degrees. Thoughtless people who already swirled down this brain drain will then try to justify their expenditure by saying things like, "it increases your future earnings potential" so the next round of young victims can enter the system and subsidize their health care plans.
An education is what you make of it, but college graduates would have you believe that an education is what makes you.
-Riskable
http://riskable.com
"I have a license to kill -9"
Sadly, often these days it does. Most of the entry-level positions I've looked at require specific technical skills or knowledge of some arcane processes which, while not difficult to acquire (often in less than a day), cannot be 'proven' without a degree, some expensive certification, or previous experience.