Jewish Member of Iranian Parliament:
Who knew? The Iranian dress-code-for-non-Muslims-or-not story taught me that there is such a member -- Morris Motamed -- and he is in fact the member set aside to represent Iran's 25,000-person Jewish community. Here's an Australian Broadcasting Corporation story that mentions him, and his status.
Naturally, this doesn't mean that Jews in Iran have equal rights, or are treated well by the government or by fellow citizens -- the presence of a non-set-aside Jewish politician would be much better evidence of social tolerance than the presence of a set-aside one -- but only that Iran's Islamic legal system sometimes yields things that are unexpected to the uninitiated.
Related Posts (on one page):
I suppose the Jews in the Third Reich did even better. they didn't have to pay for their room or board once things got going full steam.
AP - Sat May 20, 2:00 PM ET Seven -year-old Mareya Aman, who died shortly after, is carried into the Shifa hospital in Gaza City Saturday May 20, 2006. The Israeli army fired missiles at a car in Gaza City on Saturday, killing Islamic Jihad's most senior militant Mohammed Dabouh, and Mareya Aman who was in a taxi close behind Dadouh's jeep with her mother and 5-year-old Mohanad who were also killed. (AP photo/Hatem Moussa)
The blame for their deaths is not on Israel's head, but rather rightly belongs to those who target Israel's civilians and hide among their own civilians, out of uniform, like the cowardly rats they were.
If the "palestinian" terrorists had even a modicum of decency, they wouldn't use their own civilians as human shields. But that's a little too much to hope for.
To refrain from targeting them when they have human shields is to allow the innocent to be captive to the most culpalble, and would result in GREATER usage of human shields. In contrast, ignoring the use of human shields will cause these scum to realize that it doesn't make a difference if they hold people hostage, which will disincentivize future human shield/hostage-type situations.
Cast the blame where it belongs, on those (other than the photographer) who "Hatem".
Human shields, or someone riding behind their vehicle in a taxi?
A mom, grandmother, 5 and 7 year old. Hopefully their people won't want justice.
Just Sayin
I missed where the kids were planting bombs, was it?
Say, what size are those strips of cloth they'll be making the Jews wear in Iran? What, an error you say?
Good thing nobody got killed over it. Justice as payback is a bitch.
But they're not. that's the point, the islamic government didn't pass the bill. There is a moderate and even liberal voice in their government (just not in their president's sound bites). As for the postings about Israel, I do agree that the Israel rocket attacks on Palestine aren't exactly helping things, and while I know security is needed I do agree that much of Israel's attacks are badly targeted, then again an Iraqi blogger translated via global voices recently told stories of american troops comandeering houses for snipers and then raising entire houses with machine gun fire long after the attackers had fled. War is still messy even with micro-fiber-optic-heat-sensitive-guided-weapons.
Hurry, hurry Frank.
"The IDF does pull off alot of attacks without killing bystanders"
Not this one.
No amount of deletions in the world will deny the fact that there are some things here you refuse to see.
Unintended, perhaps.
Dead, no doubt.
Forgotten and easily erased, not likely...
doh, ahh stupid me of course it's the less precise by stander killing attacks the media reports. damn... got caught by that one. Still it does raise moral questions, why do the israelies receive foreign aid when they're using violence and the palestinains don't? I suppose becuase the Israelis originally were open to the idea of letting Palestians have represenatives in their government...
Congratulations Andrew Jones.
You have more stones than others here.
Funny how it's so easy to pound your chest and be brave, thinking you're carrying on American ideals, but then when it really comes down to it...
"The strips of cloth over the 2 teens eyes..."
Were the homosexual teens that were killed in Iran Jewish?
I must have missed that one, Frank.
Funny the things you learn here at Volokh Rumour Central...
"The only way to defeat a committed enemy is to truly defeat him. "
See the problem with your "logic" is who you identify as your enemy.
Are you planning to kill all of the Palestinian children "to truly defeat" them? Justice will stop you before you get that far...
Funny, but you seem to be echoing another fellow who had a plan for wiping out a people. Didn't work so well for him either. I suspect a lot of this big talk and refusal to accept the consequences of actions stems for that big hurt. Keep studying though. Many many peoples suffered immensely and didn't come out of it as insecure killers beating their chests over the deaths of children. Not your child, of course...
He can't answer because his contortions start to look ridiculous.
Just I hope you don't think you're even remotely offensive. Haha that would be sad.
I would add up how many innocent people were accidentally killed by that policeman.
As the numbers of "standbys" continue to grow, you realize the guy is either grossly unqualified to kill accurately, or he doesn't really care about the results.
You don't know. Yet you bloviate.
You are defending a right to exist for one poor kid who accidentally hurt by Israelis ( terrible tragedy , no doubts) and you are ignoring, in the same time, right to exist of Israel itself ( with ALL Israeli kids sentenced to dye by those who does not recognize their right to exist) . Why such a double standard?
Once again, you're showing your lack of seriousness because you can't differentiate (or choose not to differentiate) between the two situations, demonstrating a lack of analytical ability or disingenuousness. You still can't argue out of your inconsistent double standard, but then you're not trying to. To go with the point of the dead girl, well, so what? Thousands and thousands of people die every day. You or I could die tomorrow and, except to our families and friends, it just doesn't matter. One more or less isn't that big a deal. You're trying to make an emotional appeal where you have no rational one, and that just doesn't work unless you're talking to someone who already agrees with you.
o' connuh j. is right. You're not offensive, just sad.
So he flatulates, and claims "it depends". Yet he doesn't know what metric that hinges on nor does he know the particular record of the combat pilot in question.
So why is he babbling and crying when he is clueless by his own standards? lol!
Two kids today.
Not hurt. Dead.
What are the overall numbers of Palestinian children killed v. Israeli children, if you all are playing those numbers games?
At some point, inaccuracy and unintentional are just words. The kids are dead, and it's not going to bring anybody any peace overall. What is so hard about reading that?
"To go with the point of the dead girl, well, so what?"
It's not a one-time thing.
And thanks for clarifying -- "so what?" kinda sums up my point.
Those of you accusing me of valuing one type of life over another should take a harder look. Before erasing, of course.
By your twisted logic the Russian authorities who attempted to rescue the Moscow Theater hostages back in 2002 are morally equivalent - or worse - than the hostage takers because their rescue attempt killed more hostages than the hostage takers did?
Incredible!
Justice. Justice you shall pursue...
“The kids are dead, and it's not going to bring anybody any peace overall.
The kids is Palestinians kids? What about the Israelis kids who were killed, not hurt , and not accidentally but deliberately ?
Is it not a double standard it is not a hypocrisy. ?
Numbers?
Attackers always have more casualties in comparison with those who defend themselves.
Selective justice is the worst possible injustice
al,
The reason I didn't mention the Jewish kids who were killed today by he Palestinians is ...
Is it not a double standard it is not a hypocrisy. ?
Numbers?
It seems to me there is a lot of speaking out when Israeli children are targeted.
The response seems to be "so what" when Palestinian children are killed, again and again and again, by inaccurate missles.
At some point, "oops... their deaths were an accident" doesn't cut it. That's why you all are reacting so strongly.
It's easier to believe me saying something I'm not, to call me a coward, than to admit that actions today -- undertaken deliberately -- killed two children who were alive this morning. Look at the picture of that child -- before Professor Volokh deleted the link. She is dead because of Israeli actions. Now if you think her death was necessary and justified and brings Israel any more closer to security, say it. I think killing any kids is wrong. Whether intentional or not. There's a better way, but it's not with weapons and death of children.
As the Moscow Theater siege shows, moral culpability is not a function of 'who kills more'. The authorities may - prima facie at least - be excused for pumping gas to save even more hostages who were in danger because the entire theater was rigged with explosives.
They ended up killing more hostages than the Chechen terrorists ever did, but had they not taken that action the outcome could have been even more killed.
By your perverse moral calculus the hostage rescuers would be more to blame than the terrorists themselves. Does your mother know you were born like that?
I don't get this thread. Is Just running for a spot in the Iranian Parliament? If so, I'm a fan of his slogan.
For the record, I haven't supported or apologized for any terrorist acts.
How many kids did your State kill today?
Thanks HLS.
To me though, it's not a slogan.
"There's a better way, but it's not with weapons and death of children."
You have to be prepared to live it.
And not have somebody else's child die for your fears.
You are not discussing you are reprimanding . You are not answering questions and you are not listening opponents. So I agree with professor let us quit this topic.
anyway, I am neither pro Israeli nor pro Arab. I am just against demagoguery.
In the mean time I Respectfully disagree with professor that the issue about Jewish member of parliaments is not close to Israeli- Palestinian conflict ,i think these issuese are very close , but this is your place, professor , I will follow your ruling
Ok I am following professor’s direction and I will go back to initial topic :
In any totalistic regime any parliamentary activity are manipulated and easily imitated. Examples of nazi :
Read AppSocRes :
"A reminder that the Nazis selected Jews to represent the Jewish communities in various parts of the Reich and to facilitate each community's extinction, e.g., by preparing population lists"
Same thing was in Soviet Union were in the parliament was beautiful picture which has nothing to do with reality
I think that only reason why they have Jewish representation I parliament is make us to talk about that seriously.
We are doing it! The trick is working !!!
al - do you have a source for that?
source for what ?
could you please clarify?
One thing, I think, that people lose track of with the Middle East the way it is right now, is that historically Islamic countries have been more tolerant of Judaism than Christian countries have been. Yes, I know, not for the last 50 years, but look at the record: Christian countries have a truly horrible record of anti-Semitism and the record in Islamic countries are not nearly so bad.
This is one of the reasons I am so hopeful about the future in Iraq. Islam has been demonized as a religions -- in these comments sections as well as elsewhere -- but the truth is that it is no worse than Christianity in terms of tolerance of other religions. If anything, it has a better track record in that regard.
I am hopeful foe Iraq future as well
However historical facts are these
1. Tunisia's 1948 population of 105,000
dropped to about 1500 by the year 2000. see;www.palestinefacts.org
2. The Jewish exodus from Arab lands. The combined population of Jewish communities in the Greater Middle East (excluding Israel) was reduced from about 900,000 in 1948 to less than 8,000 today. Some of these communities were more than 2,500 years old. Israel absorbed approximately 600,000 of these refugees wikipedia.org
Why are we guessing ?
According to wikepedia:
“Iran's Jewish community is officially recognized as a religious minority group by the government, and as with Zoroastrians, they are allocated one seat in the Iranian Parliament. Maurice Motamed has been the Jewish MP since 2000, and was re-elected again in 2004. In 2000, former Jewish MP Manuchehr Eliasi estimate there were still 30-35,000 Jews in Iran, other sources put the figure as low as 20-25,000”
So it is sound like a real deal ? not so fast according to the same witkepedia
Jews in Iran “may not occupy senior positions in the government or the military and are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school heads” so what do you think? I think , that this guy is a real person but it does not mean a thing because seating in parliament can not undo discrimination. In this sense it is a propaganda trick and nothing else. what am I missing ?
Last day of Passover, April, 1950; Baghdad: the oldest Jewish community in the world, dating back to the time of Nebuchadnezzar; 130,000 Iraqi Jews.
A small bomb goes off in the esplanade where 50,000 Jews had gathered. By luck, no one was injured. Nonetheless, it sent fear through the Jewish community. Rumors that Iraqi extremists wanted to kill them spread. The murmur began "It is better to go to Israel".
10,000 Jews registered to emigrate. These were among the poorest Iraqi Jews, with the least to lose. The panic abated and registration to emigrate petered off. Only 120 Jews actually left Iraq.
Another bomb, this time at the US Information Center, where many Jews regularly gathered to read. Again Iraqi extremists were blamed. Again, fortuitously, no one was harmed. Once again, panic and push to emigrate to Israel, though less than before.
The third bomb did claim victims, outside the Mas'uda Shemtov synagogue, which served as an assembly point for emigrants. The bomb went off when the synagogue was full of Kurdish Jews from the northern city of Suleimaniyyah. A Jewish boy outside the synagogue was distributing sweetmeats. He was killed instantly. The man behind him was badly wounded in the eyes. This time the panic was in full force. Better to leave Iraq while there was still time.
Within the year, the oldest Jewish community in the world had gone from 130,000 to 5,000 souls.
It turns out the bombs were actually the work of "The Movement", a Zionist underground in contact with Yigal Allon, chief of Palmach commandos, subsequently a Foreign Minister of Israel.
There were 15 arrests (in Iraq). One, Shalom Salih, broke down during interrogation and took police from synagogue to synagogue showing them Haganah arms caches smuggled in since W.W.II. The prosecution argued at trial that the Zionist underground was trying, through the throwing of bombs, to frighten Iraqi Jews to emigrate to Israel. Two defendants were sentenced to death, the others to long prison terms. One of the imprisoned Jews, given a life sentence but actually freed from Iraqi prison after ten years and himself then emigrating to Israel, broke the Jewish silence on the story during an interview in May 1966 in the Israeli weekly Ha'olam Hazeh.
Perhaps you scoff at the notion of believing the results of an Iraqi trial. But this trial was in the early 1950s, prior to the Islamification of the country, which at that point, until recently under British rule, was quite Western in its courts.
In a story in the "Black Panther" (a publication for Israel's Oriental Jews) in November, 1972, a witness to the trial, an Iraqi lawyer living at the time of the interview in Tel Aviv, said: "the trial was made according to international law. The evidence was just such that it wasn't difficult at all to pronounce such sentences."
One might ask, why was it necessary to frighten Iraqi Jews into moving to Israel? Wouldn't they naturally desire such a move? Not really. Zionism never had as much appeal to Oriental Jews as to European Jews. Prior to 1948, only 10% of Jewish immigrants were from Africa and Asia. The vast majority of Oriental Jews were simply Arab Jews and, historically, they had not suffered anything like the persecution and discrimination as did European Jews under Christendom.
Prejudice against Jews was much less in Iraq than in Europe. One government official in Iraq was quoted (tongue in cheek) as saying "Many of us consider the Jews to be the original inhabitants of this country. We believe, according to the Koran, they are descendants of Abraham and that goes back nearly 4,000 years. Compared to them, therefore, we Muslims are interlopers because we have been here only 1,500 years." At one time Baghdad numbered more Jews than Arab residents. In the 20th century, as an already prosperous, educated community they were particularly well placed to benefit from the rapid development and modernization of the country. They controlled many national institutions, most of the banks and big shops. The poorest Jews were better off than the average Iraqi. Under the constitution, Jews enjoyed equality with other citizens. They were represented in Parliament, worked in civil service. From 1920 to 1925, the Minister of Finance was Jewish.
Admittedly, Iraq was concerned about Zionism, and this created some pressure on Iraqi Jews, the large majority of whom were not Zionist. In the mid-1940s, Zionist booklets were disseminated in Baghdad entitled "Don't Buy From Moslems". Meanwhile Iraqi Jews, who considered themselves both Arab and Jewish, set up The League for Combating Zionism.
As the Chief Rabbi of Iraq, Sassoon Khedduri, explained in the early 1950s: "The Jews--and the Muslims--in Iraq just took it for granted that Judaism is a religion and Iraqi Jews are Iraqis. The Palestinian problem was remote and there was no question about the Jews of Iraq following the Arab position. By mid-1949 the big propaganda guns were already going off in the United States. American dollars were going to save the Iraqi Jews--whether Iraqi Jews needed saving or not. There were daily 'pogroms'--in the New York Times and under datelines which few noticed were from Tel Aviv. Why didn't someone come to see *us* instead of negotiating with Israel to take Iraqi Jews? Why didn't someone point out that the solid, responsible leadership of Iraqi Jews believed this to be their country--in good times and bad--and we were convinced the trouble would pass."
One might ask, why was Israel making such an effort to ingather Iraqi Jews less than eager to emigrate? It seems they needed the manpower. Most Oriental Jews were recruited into Israel to do menial labor. As one of the Iraqi émigrés told the Black Panther magazine in 1972: One of the most splendid and rich communities [in Iraq] was destroyed, its members reduced to indigents--a community that ruled over most of the resources of Iraq was turned into a ruled group, discriminated against and oppressed in every aspect [in Israel]. A community that prided itself on its scholarship subsequently produced fewer academics, in Israeli universities, than it brought with it from Iraq." It seems many Iraqi Jews feel they are treated like second-class citizens by their European Jewish neighbors.
----
This story is well known to Israelis and to historians. If it is not well known to readers of this list, so eager to defend the killing--any killing--of Palestinian children by the IDF, this is because history repeats and hell is well paved.
“the 10-month-old Jewish girl, Shalhevet Hass, was hit after Palestinians opened fire on a home in the settlement of Avraham Avinu” http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1244040.stm
“Ten-month-old Shalhevet Hass died after being hit in the head by two bullets. Her father, who was holding her at the time, was seriously injured.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1244867.stm
“A five-month-old baby died on Monday from the head injuries he suffered when his parents' car was stoned by Palestinians in the West Bank last week.”
See about that at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1382710.stm
“10-month-old Shalhevet Hass was deliberately targeted by a Palestinian sniper who opened fire on her home in the settlement of Avraham Avinuand, hitting her twice in the head.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1244562.stm
“Israeli baby shot dead in Hebron “
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1244420.stm
“By ignoring folks like me with thoughts like mine:”
Folks like you do not want be answered because folks like you do not have questions, only statements, only reprimand. I am in this discussion because i want to understand the issuers better. What are your goal here? To educate us ? If so give us some rational thoughts on the issue not hysterical emotions pretending that you are only one who sorry about Palestinian deaths. What is your THOUGH? I sincerely do not see any thinking in your position . So far i see only anti-Israeli bigotry and self absorption (see how conscious I am?) . Could you, please, summarize your thinking in any coherent logical way which goes beyond emotions and statement that a killing of a kid is a tragedy? Everybody think that death of this kid, even unintended is a tragedy not only you ( folks like you just not listening others ) . Everybody think that it has to be stopped , not only you. But every body else understand that it is just a part of bigger tragedy and it is demagoguery to single it out for the sake of demonstration how “just” you are. Why not intended death of this poor Palestinian kid is bigger problem than all DELIBERATELY killed Israeli kids? Does it mean that in your scale Jewish life worth less ? If you are so concern about that issue why you do not insist on ending of terrorism which is a cause of that kind incidents and not put all blame on those who are defending themselves? And after all, what it has to do with Jewish parliament member in Iran? If you insist that you are thinking and not reprimanding you have to stop talking to yourself and start coherent thinking .
If indeed Jews in Iran “may not occupy senior positions in the government or the military and are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school heads”( wikipedia) and in the same time t Iranians are arranging a Jewish representative in parliament it is just shows how hypocritical Iranians are . Do not you think so?
If Jews in Iran indeed have a representative but in the same time “Jewish leaders reportedly are reluctant to draw attention to official mistreatment of their community due to fear of government reprisal.” ( wikipedia) what use of this kind of representation?
After all, in Warsaw ghetto, under Nazi was Jewish police, so what? Does it mean that ghetto was self govern and therefore good?
”Unfortunately, all the dead Israeli children in the past in no way justifies killing the children yesterday. “
Of course not , nobody saying that. you again talking to yourself not with me. What I am saying is that
1.it is not normal to consider tragedy of killing only Palestinian kids and to ignore killing of Israelis
2. it is big difference between accidental killing and deliberate murdering Jewish kids by Palestinians . Difference between accidental killing and deliberate murder is crucial. It is legal difference it is moral difference it is logical difference. In both cases those who killed are responsible not body arguing, but the level of responsibility is different. Those who are killing kids deliberately and intentionally and routinely as apart of ideologically driven strategy are have higher standard of guilt.
Any objections about that ?
”ALL children are shameful -- intentional or not, your actions killed children. “
Shameful? yes, equal ? no ! there is difference between accidental killing and deliberate murder. Difference legal, moral and logical unless you do not have an agenda it is obvious.
”If you're just saying: you killed so many of ours, we're justified in killing so many of yours, then I pity you. “
When did i say so? You are not listening and you are unfortunately talking to yourself. You can pity me but you cannot argue with me logically
“I disagree that all these pre-emptive actions are "defensive".”
You can be disagree but what else Israelis can do defend themselves against Iranian and Arab sponsored terrorism against the country? What you would do to defend yourself? besides it is not preventive action but a retaliation. If Palestine would did not made this terrorist act no body would retaliate as a result nobody would dye
”What harm were those 2 children, in their youthful condition, to Israel? Innocent kids were killed, and "so what?" is the response I hear.”
You here what you to here not what we are telling to you. Answer is it was a very regrettable accident. Nobody said “so what” you are not only one who upset with that you are only one who built demagoguery on that fact
”Maybe your wise men aren't as wise as you think?”
I do not think that I am a wise man , I am trying to understand the issue better, this is why I am trying to understand what is your position you think it is not wise?.
P.S. Professor can delete whatever he pleased to delete it is his blog, besides he asked us nicely to follow the topic of discussion and you are ingoing him ( and I am following you unfortunately, sorry professor:)), why he has to indulge you?
"After all, in Warsaw ghetto, under Nazi was Jewish police, so what? Does it mean that ghetto was self govern and therefore good? Screaming Holocaust is about as effective as calling WOLF.”
Here is your real position in these words above.
Screaming holocaust ? I am giving you historical example of imitation of self-government trying to prove the fact that to have representative of oppressed part of population is does not mean that there is no oppression. Nothing less nothing more.
“If you have a bone to pick with the Germans, don't take it out on the Persians, eh?”
I was talking about Persians saying that if indeed Jews “may not occupy senior positions in the government or the military and are prevented from serving in the judiciary and security services and from becoming public school heads”( wikipedia) not representative can hide discrimination
“It is laughable that you're so quick to report the false news of wearing yellow badges. I wonder: would you want it to be true? Would that more easily justify a missle attack on Iran?”
one paper reposted false and you see a conspiracy? Blame this news paper for that ,not everybody with whom you disagree.
“Would that more easily justify a missle attack on Iran?”
Nothing can justify missile attack on Iran : you again talking only with yourself without listening your opponents. I repeat again, nothing can justify missile attack on Iran. But it does not mean that Iran is good and it does not mean that minorities are not oppressed in Iran
His name is Maurice Motamed read the article about him in wikipedia it is not amusing at all . it reminds greatly anti – Zionist committee in soviet union, actually it a copy of what soviets created as “anti – Zionist committee” headed by Jews but strictly ant-Semitic organization .
The British, when they directed the government of Egypt's external affairs 1882-1945, made no effort to interfere with Sharia as it applied to legal issues of personal status.
If you're not going to have a secular state with tolerance, it's hard to imagine how else a government would deal with coherent religious communities.
Professor Volokh says he is learning more about Iranian parliamentarianism. It's a fascinating, though perhaps not very important, subject. As Bernard Lewis points out, the existence of parliaments in Islamic states, particularly Iran's, is anomalous -- there is nothing in the Koran or past Islamic experience to support it.
The question is not why the Majlis has a Jew in it but why Iran has a Majlis in it.
For that matter, the Turkish parliament is not much different. Turkey is often pointed to as an example of a secular but mostly Islamic state when it is really a disguised military despotism. Turks overwhelmingly (except the non-Islamic minorities) would vote for an Iranian-style Islamic candidate if they had one to vote for. They all understand that the army would not permit it, so they take what they can get.
I do not believe that there is a functioning parliament in any of the 49 mostly Muslim countries, in the sense that we think of it in Euro-America.
Lewis asks, but does not answer, why Iran chooses to have a parliamentary form (entirely western and non- or even anti-Islamic) in a government that is explicitly antiwestern and, supposedly, reactionary. Or why the movement back to a caliphate is so weak in Islamic countries. Lewis also points out that for most Muslims the traditional and acceptable form of state is a monarchy.
The best answer I can give is that Muslims, by and large, seem not to have any coherent political ideas, which is no answer.