I believe "you can't say that" is meant to be directed toward governmental restrictions on speech, not the free market choices of private entities.

What an outrage!! Next thing you know, they will fine managers for saying "nigger" or "kike" --- Please, David Post save us from that kind of world.

What's the point of this post? That the government should force a private employer to be represented by someone who publicly says "fucking faggot" while performing his job duties?

I think the point, Nels Nelson, is that it should still be socially acceptable to say "fag" in public without reprecussions from private employers. Pining for lost youth, lost innocence, lost ability to express scorn for Democratic-leaning minority groups.

do you really think it should be acceptable to call people fags in public?

As interesting side note, it took me 20 minutes of news searching to find the "offensive homophobic remark" that all of the print outlets and radio shows constantly referred to Ozzie as saying.

It was in the story linked by David Post:

Guillen said to reporters when referring to Mariotti before Tuesday's game, "What a piece of [expletive] he is, [expletive] fag."

--Philistine

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought Prof. Post's post was to make a joke about the poor fate of the selected "trainer" and a disdainful remark about the aims and effectiveness of charm school. It wasn't, to my mind, supposed to be an argument condemning private-employer sanctioning generally.

(He may believe such a condemnation is appropriate, but I don't think that is what Post's post is.)

I was born on the West Side of Chicago, but south of Madison Street, so I have been a White Sox fan for over 50 years (including 1959, when they lost the World Series in 6 games). While I am delighted by Ozzie Guillen's success, I am appalled by his public style. I don't care to listen to slurs from people who want my money.

Baseball is an entertainment business, and the commissioner's office (and the White Sox owners) have evidently determined that insulting minorities is bad for business. Good for them.

And let's not ignore the fact that Guillen has caused other problems, including ordering his pitchers to throw at other players (and then defending his order when a rookie pitcher refused to comply).

Guillen has shown repeated bad judgment. Baseball has shown good judgment by disciplining him. That's not reeducation, that's just business.

Why should it be so offensive if the remark is not in fact an insult (even if it is in the mind of the offendor)?

It's offensive in the same way that "nigger" and "kike" are to blacks and Jews respectively. This doesn't mean that the people being called these things are embarrassed or ashamed to be black or Jewish, but that the speaker thinks they should be (and is backed by enough of society that there are words for these qualities that are considered offensive) and is thus using the term as an insult. These types of insults are particularly hurtful because they remind the target that an element of society still does not accept them. "Mother fucker" doesn't work in the same way (unless you are saying it to someone who does have sex with his mother). "Fucking commentor" doesn't offend because society doesn't have a history of looking down on people who comment on blogs (yet).

Of course, as I'm sure DB would point out, as a private organization MLB can do pretty much whatever they want in terms of regulating that kind of speech, can't they?

Actually, that's an interesting question. I wonder if, under the state action doctrine, MLB could be considered a state actor to which the 14th Amendment (incorporating the 1st) applies. I don't know enough about the ties (or whether this has been previously litigated), but the anti-trust exemption and Congressional steroid hearings lead me to think this might be a nonfrivolous argument. At the very least, it could be an interesting lawsuit if Guillen chose to pursue it.

In what I would consider to be the extremely unlikely event that Major League Baseball and its constituent teams were held to be public employers such that at least some employees had First Amendment rights vis-a-vis their employer, Guillen would still have no chance.

The relevant First Amendment test (Connick, Pickering, etc.) first requires that the employee be commenting on a matter of public interest; it then looks to negative impact on the employer from the speech. Here, calling somebody an "[expletive] faggot" is in no way a comment on a matter of public interest; plus having a coach make slurs against a minority group clearly has a negative impact on the employer.

I only took David Post's posting to mean what Tennessean took it to mean: "gee, imagine what it would be like to try to be a sensitivity trainer for Guillen."

But it is interesting how consistently commentors on this blog worry about unfair discipline of employees if and only if they perceive the discipline to be in response to actions or comments that "aren't PC."

I got my revenge though, I signed the offending superior up for as much gay porn and white supremicist literature as I could, what made it so much better was my tormenter was a liberal jew.

That's what's offensive about it. It takes away their leverage.

Yeah, blacks, Jews, and gays sure have all the power, don't they?

When did we become such a nation of thinned skinned citizens? It seems to me that people take offense too often and sometimes over too little. I can see a store disciplining a salesman for repeatedly insulting customers; it’s bad for business. But mouthing off at a reporter? Too bad, toughen up. Now if Ozzie Guillen mouthed off so often he was affecting revenues, I could see cause for concern on the part of the baseball commissioner. Otherwise if Ozzie wants to look like a jerk let him. In time he will suffer for his misbehavior.

Sometimes people don’t even know when they are being offensive. Remember when the David Howard (aide to D.C. Mayor Anthony A. Williams) had to resign because Marshall Brown took offense when Howard used the word “niggardly” in a private meeting. Brown should have been fired for having such a limited vocabulary along with limited intelligence. But no, Howard was supposed to divine that Brown would misinterpret what he said. Of course Brown probably has a good excuse: he is a product of the DC public school system.

What is this country coming too when a Major League manager can't order one of his pitchers to throw a beanball? Next thing they'll make him manage in those cute little soccer shorts. Ever been to a game at Comiskey park? "Fag" is one of the nicer terms thrown at umpires and opposing players. Mariotti broke the cardinal rule of 5th grade insult tossing, letting the opponent know he got to you. I'd have accused Ozzie of giving me the HIV during drunken gay sex while spaced out on "E" and told him to get his greasy spic ass back to mexico before the Federale's arrest him. But thats just me.

You had to love Guillen's apology. It was purely about the use of the word "fag". Not a single good word toward Mariotti.

He even called him a s*** in his apology. Gotta admire a grudge like that.

Hey, when is Hollywood going to fine the cast of just about every PG and above rated movie for using the term fag or gay in an insulting manner? Heck, I remember watching "The 40 Year Old Virgin" and the running joke throughout was the "You're so gay, you ...." (of which the funniest was, "How do I know you are gay?, Because you like Coldplay").

On my 3rd year medical school surgery rotation, I was called a "Fag" numerous times, usually for some minor fuck up I committed. I also answered to "Shithead" and "Dumbass" a few times. Of course I never complained, because you just don't do that as a medical student.

Aren't general surgery residents great? And their favorite topic of conversation is to disparage doctors from every other specialty. My informal ongoing poll of medical students and my OB/GYN residents (who have been medical students all over the world) is that this is a universal trait of general surgeons.

My White Sox-loving "friend" from grad school calls me a "Cubs fan from a fag suburb" every time the opportunity arises. So I don't think the problem is confined to one individual. This seems to be a disorder of Southside baseball fans.

My best friend is gay. I love him like abrother, and hate to see him abused. For his sake--for the sake of all of us--PLEASE root for the Cubs!