I would be grateful for information on any of these three topics:
1. If a person likes Green Day's sound, but not their politics, what other bands might the person enjoy?
2. What do you recommend as an entry-level shotgun for a pre-teen? It's really important that the stock be short, to accomodate short arms. If the shotgun will only be used on clay birds, and never for hunting live animals, is there any disadvantage to 28 gauge or .410?
3. I am looking for a web-based traffic meter for my website. I already run SiteMeter, but that of course covers only the home page. The website includes hundreds of different htm and pdf files, and I would prefer not to have to install new code on every single page. The solution cannot involve installing software on the website server. I realize that there is no free program which will do the the trick.
Thanks!
UPDATE: Thanks to the many excellent and thoughtful commenters! Here's what I did:
1. For Green Day substitutes, I'm starting with MxPx and Mr. T Experience. I will be checking out the many other bands highlighted by the commenters. (BTW, the music isn't for personal use; it's for someone else. I'm not punk.)
2. For the gun, I got the New England Firearms single-shot youth shotgun. It was the only gun I found that really fit well and was comfortable for the pre-teen to hold. I really like the fact that it's a break-open, that it's single shot, and that the hammer has to be manually cocked before a shot can be fired. Custom stock-fitting makes a lot of sense, but I couldn't bear to spend the money. (The NEF is a real bargain; only $107 at Cabelas.) Recoil would certainly be reduced with a gas-operated semi-auto, and I'm sure that's a good choice for some folks, but I agreed with commenters who suggested that a semi-auto might not be the right starter shotgun for my situation. At Cabelas I discovered that Remington sells a recoil-absorbing gel pad which can be inserted in an interior shoulder pocket in some shooting vests. We tried it out today, and its works superbly.
3. I'm adding the sitemeter code my Dynamic Web Templates. I will also explore getting ahold of the server logs.
Thanks again for all the great advice!
For your shotgun question, might I recommend letting the pre-teen try out the various gauges? I started with a 20 gauge when I was about 10 or 11, and it worked out really well. Invest in a good recoil pad if you intend him or her to be shooting a lot too. That took the "scare" out of the recoil when I was learning to shoot.
My only thought about a 28 gauge would be the expense of ammo (is it readily available like say a 20 or 12?). Also, he/she might quickly outgrow a .410, although it will be a really fun firearm to shoot for years to come and one they can pass down to their children.
I still have my New England Firearms single shot 20 gauge that my dad gave me when I was 10 or 11 and it still works perfectly!
Stephen
You should also consider bird hunting. A great experience between fathers and sons (or daughters).
If we're talking older stuff, check out Goldfinger. Catch-22 would also be one that I'd recommend.
No experience on the music and web traffic meter problems, and not too much on shotguns, but the comments to date seem about right. 28 Ga is a bit rare and ammo could be hard to find and expensive, .410 is fun and easy to shoot, but because of the smaller number of pellets, it is indeed an "experts" gun (unless you only shoot at relatively close targets, with a wider choke setting. Since you probably can't get gun clubs running matches or practices to go along with closer target settings, I would suggest something bigger.)
If the shooting is going to be in your own backyard, well, set your trap to throw slow and close and go for the .410; you can always get a bigger gun once some experience is gained.
12 or 20 ga with light loads (you might even try loading lighter than factory, but don't expect them to function an auto!)is a good idea, and I would suggest possibly buying a moderately good gun ($2-500) and having the stock shortened with a good recoil pad added. When the child grows up, you can replace the stock if the gun is worth it or add an extender piece or simply buy another gun and perhaps sell that one. Or, do the same thing, but go for inexpensive - such as the New England Firearms single shot break-open guns. The gun is less than $200 and the gunsmithing shouldn't more than double that. I'm sure that some people - possibly even NEF - make short versions for children if you want to go that way. But put a decent recoil pad on it! Flinches are hard to get over, and can discourage the beginning shooter.
Also, on the .410 vs larger bore question: What does "pre-teen" mean? 7-8 years old or 11-13 years old? The former might be a better bet for the .410, while most 11-13 year-olds should be able to manage a bigger gun.
Brooks Lyman
President,
MIT Pistol &Rifle Club,
Cambridge, MA
Since I was 12 in 1952, the band names don't mean a lot to me. My kids listened to the "goldie oldies" like Pink Floyd and the Eagles. I didn't.
I would not recommend an auto-loader. Though they recoil less, they are not as safe for a child, in my opinion. A pump is a good, safe, inexpensive choice if you want a repeater. While you can limit the number of shells in it to increase safety, anything over one is not as safe, and if it's one, then a single shot is simpler and cheaper. A single shot is a great choice, especially if the child is younger than about 12.
Regarding your meter issues, Sitemeter is still a good option. You would probably have to add the code only a couple of times -- just add it to your page template, and it'll automatically be on every page. You'd be out of luck on .pdf pages, though. I don't think you can make a .pdf file run a java script. If you really need to count those, it would seem like a server-based solution would be your best option (and it sounds like that might be problematic for you).
A very nice shotgun if you want to spend $700 is Beretta 391 Urika, also youth model. Lots of information on this topic on the forums at shotgunworld.com.
Per your request for bands similar to Green Day, I'd suggest:
Screeching Weasel - more Ramones-like, really, but from the same era. And the lead singer has faintly libertarian-esque overtones. Try "Punkhouse," which pokes fun at punker layabouts
Jawbreaker - relatively politics-free. And very good. Key member later formed Jets to Brazil.
The Buzzcocks - that's where Green Day got their sound. A seminal band...
Andrew WK - rather more operatic. But totally politics free. And great fun, to boot.
Atom and His Package - more lo-fi. But exceptionally funny and catchy. "What the Jews Do on Christmas" is absolutely classic.
the Jam - you might still not like their politics. But its less topical. Try "The Modern World"
The Fastbacks - similar sound, no politics
The Kinks - Different sound, but a predecessor. I recommend "Village Green Preservation Society"
Stiff Little Fingers - Similar to Buzzcocks, big influence on Green Day.
Superdrag - a bit heavier sound, but still very poppy.
The Undertones - older band again.
The Wedding Present - different sound, but generally popular with people who like Green Day.
Incidentally, some years ago Green Day played at my high school. There were lots of east bay bands with a sound similar to theirs. But most didn't last as long...
I'll throw in a vote for the .410. When I was a little kid back on a ranch in Oklahoma, I played with a little .410 my grandad had, and have fond memories of it. We didn't have skeet to shoot at, but we did have a lot of varmints -- and while I missed more than I hit (at first), the weapon was easy to handle, fun, and made me want to do better.
My cousin still owns it, and his kids (who just entered their 20s) learned with it as well. It's passed through the hands of four generations.
>> I would prefer not to have to install new code on every single page.
There really are only 2 ways to track user behavior on a website: (1) installing server side scripts and (2) inserting code on each page. Since the former isn't an option for you, you would have to insert code on each page to achieve your goal. If you would like a scalable solution, you would create a single file that has a few lines of javascript (whatever your stat provider tells you to copy/paste; see e.g. http://www.google.com/analytics/feature_fast.html). Then on each webpage, you would place an include statement in the scripting language that your webserver uses (asp or php...), which would make reference to the javascript file. One day if you decide to change your stat provider, you would only need to modify the single file rather than all files. Hope that helps.
Do not cut down a nice walnut stock. Buy a plastic stock (I e-bayed one for $30), cut it down as much as possible, and use a slip on recoil pad. Ugly, but flexible.
Go with an open choke. It is far more fun to actually hit things.
I'm a big fan of early (1995-2001) MxPx stuff. Some of their newer stuff is pretty good.
I second the guy above that suggested Superdrag. Great stuff, my business partner (now) introduced me to them back in high school.
Johnny Ramone is wonderful. Love his Ramones.
It's not punk at all, but a band called Stavesacre has some extremely excellent music, as does Project86.
Early P.O.D. is good. I'll discuss a few albums...Snuff the Punk is their first album, and it's really grungy punk stuff. Brown was their second album, and it stands the test of time. As does The Fundamental Elements of Southtown - probably their finest album to date. The later stuff gets downright stupid (starting at Satellite), but I forgive them for giving me the earlier stuff.
Also, while I'm at it - Starflyer 59.
The Arctic Monkeys.
I guess that's it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MxPx
www.mxpx.com
I used to play bass in a very liberal punk band, listen to Rage Against the Machine, Green Day, and many other uber liberal bands (most popular bands are generally liberal in punk and hard rock), and as soon as I started reading about politics I became conservative. The thing you have to remember is that kids really don't even have the perspective to grasp the political content of the music and almost never critically analyze it. Out of all the punk kids I've grown up with, about 50% have become conservatives at college and 50% liberals. Though this is all anecdotal, it seems that the music had very little or no effect, while their upringing and parents had the lion's share.
New Found Glory
Fall Out Boy
No Use for a Name
Goldfinger
Craig's Brother
The Lawrence Arms
Maybe I can find someone with better Audacity skills than I who'll Phantom Edit Green Day for me.
I have been using StatCounter on a site with good results. Easy to set up and good metrics. The free version only gives detailed info on the last 100 visits, but that number can be increased with $$.
They're at www.statcounter.com
I'll plug Foo Fighters, Guster, Travis, Eels, Fountains of Wayne, and Ben Folds, for great catchy pop tunes that are generally apolitical, or nuanced enough in politics to allow all viewpoints to enjoy. None really "sound" too much like Green Day, but they share the ability to find catchy hooks that can be really addicting and enjoyable over many repeat listens.
I've hated Green Day since they cancelled a concert I had tickets to in the late 90s and left it impossible to figure out how to get a refund.
A standard 7/8 oz 20 gauge target load with number 8 shot will throw a pattern that is nearly identical in energy/velocity and shape to a standard 1-1/8 oz 12 gauge target load with number 8 shot. There will be roughly 20% fewer pellets (approximately 350 versus 450), but the shooter loses very little in clay breaking power except at far distances -- 40 yards and greater. Sporting clays shooters ocasionally shoot at those distances, but not enough to make it worth getting a gun that is too big. Skeet is always shot well within that distance, and trap nearly always.
Stepping down even further to a 28 gauge or .410 bore gun on the other hand, may not make much sense. The standard 28 gauge target load is about 3/4 oz of either number 8 or number 9 shot, which comes to roughly 50 fewer number 8 shot pellets than with a 20 gauge. So, that's not as big a concern as some have alleged here. But, if you buy a good gun, a shortened stock can always be swapped out later for an adult sized gun that will last a lifetime. Whereas a 20 gauge gun is highly versatile (especially if the shooter ever hunts upland game birds), a 28 gauge gun will often be just not quite enough gun but for the expert shooter. Plus, a 28 gauge gun will be slightly harder to find -- and find ammunition for. Still, most shotgun shooting facilities that sell ammunition will sell 28 gauge rounds.
Of course, if I could afford it, I'd have a 28 gauge shotgun in my safe. But, that begs the next question of how much you are willing to spend. ... which carries us on the question of what brand and model.
One poster above noted that gas-operated auto-loading shotguns substantially reduce felt recoil, which both makes them great for smaller shooters and increases accuracy. However, for entry-level shooters, break-open guns provide a safety feature that I, as a casual instructor of both children and adults, always find comforting. When a break-open gun is open, it is obvious to the shooter and others whether it is unloaded. With auto-loaders and pump-action guns, one can see whether the breach is open if the gun is turned to the correct vantage point. But then, break-open guns are substantially more expensive at any given quality level. Beyond that, the topic is entirely too open to provide any meaningful advice.
If you have access to the raw access logs, AWStats is nice but there are many more packages that do the job just as well--it depends on what you're looking for. Mind you, if you have access to the access logs, a "server side" solution can almost always be used on a home computer with the right setup.
I too will heartily recommend an autoloading 20 gauge such as the Remington 11-87, and second the suggestion that you find an after-market stock to cut down. the only significant difference between the youth model and adult model 20 gauge Remingtons is the length of the stock, so if you cut down the aftermarket stock on an adult-sized gun you've got a gun the kid can use all his/her life. Better yet, if you can afford it, go to a gunsmith that specializes in shotgun fitting and have a stock properly fitted for the build of the child. Nothing eases recoil or improves accuracy with a shotgun so much as a properly fitted stock (although the factory Remington stock fits most pretty well).
As for the safety issue, 99% of safety is between the ears. I'd strongly recommend formal gun safety training before a shot is fired. If both of you attend you can work on reinforcing the lessons at every opportunity.
Good shootin!
Assuming American Idiot is Green Day at their musical height, it shared a musical moment with Blink-182's self-titled album. Similarly mature punk sound.That's probably closest to what you're looking for.
Fall Out Boy is pretty good, but it isn't as mature a sound as Green Day.
Another Green Day follower who's not as original but has a good sound is Eve 6. Same goes for Marvelous 3. If you like Goldfinger, then you'll like Ska, and you should look up Reel Big Fish. And of course, if you like RBF, then, even though they're quite far from Green Day, you should check out the Bosstones (that is, the Mighty Mighty Bosstones).
Don't let anyone sucker you into listening to emo bands masquerading as punk bands, like Good Charlotte or Simple Plan. Most of the songs are about how their fathers are disappointed in them because they wear mascara.
And since you're a gun nut and question #2 is one of the creepier things I've read today, try Andrew WK. His album covers look like he's just killed a rabbit with his teeth. Good music, though. Very 'wall-of-sound'. Sounds like it's by the kids who beat up the guys in Green Day in middle school.
The 12 gauge is simply not suitable for a pre-teen, period. People will say otherwise, but, well, they are wrong. You can have a very, very bad experience shooting a 12 gauge if you are under about 16 years old. Introducing kids to firearms is all about avoiding bad experiences at all costs.
For anyone 16 or under, a 20 gauge autoloader or pump is an excellent choice. I prefer the autoloader but frankly there isn't much difference. Find a used Remington 1100 skeet model or an 870 and you just won't go wrong. I shot one at 12 and I wasn't very big, and it was fine. I suggest handloading light dove loads for it, but if you aren't into that, try your average skeet load.
The recommendation of the New England single shot 20 gauge is also excellent advice.
Where I'm from, nobody shoots 28 gauge. Nobody. If somebody had showed up to hunt with a 28 gauge when I was growing up, we would have figured them for a yankee freak right off.
Accordingly, when I heard Cheney was shooting a 28 when he negligently shot his buddy, I was just mystified. I subsequently heard all kind of theories about how great the 28 is, but it all sounded like yuppie crapola to me.
In any event, the 28 gauge is (at the very least) far, far superior to the .410 and 12 gauge.
Have I mentioned that you should avoid the .410 and 12 gauge?
Good luck!
Real Green Day fans listen to those guys.
Of course, you might just be like my parents and not be ready for the bands that actually sound like Green Day. How punk are you *really*, Kopel?
And how punk do you want to be?
That's how I feel about preteens having thong underwear, cell phones, and unlimited TV privileges. But I don't wander around the shopping mall telling other people how to raise their kids.
Good Lord, our lives would be boring if I and my children could only have what we NEED.
-System Of A Down
-Offspring
-Tool
Less angry, but great music:
-The White Stripes
http://daviddfriedman.com/urchin/daviddfriedman.com/
You can see the sort of information it provides.
Screeching Weasel (whose lead singer Ben Weasel also blogs) is a good recommendation. And to reiterate, all of these recommendations are moot if you don't own a copy of anything by the Ramones.
If you want to make the act of handling the gun more appealing, I highly recommend a Baretta double barrel. If you're not going to be hunting, there's no reason to get a 12 gauge, but you'll probably be happier with a gauge whose shells are widely available.
For a great Mr. T compilation, pick up the 31-song extended version of Big Black Bugs Bleed Blue Blood - including the classic Hello Kitty Menendez. Who can beat these lyrics?:
But each passing day
Can be bigger, better, brighter than ever
Now that we have
The Menendez excuse
And though your case may soon be replaced
By the Michael Jackson pedophile trial
You've got Wessonality
Celebrity, panache and style
And whether you have been abused
As or by a child
There'll be non compos mentises
For all those Menendezes
And Menendezes' apprentices
And doctors and dentist-es
So hello Kitty Menendez
Wherever you may be
You'll be watching over me
And I'll be watching Court TV
Thinking about my exterience growing up with shotguns, I would recommend a breechloader. I could keep the gun cracked and safe until ready to shoot. This is good for sporting clays, where there's lots of wandering around. Plus, one can grow into a nice, upscale side-by-side later, and there's nothing cooler.
Others I haven't seen above:
Social Distortion
Seven Seconds
Real Big Fish
Have you contacted your local FBI or NSA office? They can probably tell you more than you want to know about the traffic to your web site.
I echo many of the above...
There are Christian alternative/punk bands that are really good. There is a label, "Tooth and Nail"
Our favorites:
-Alternative/Punk
Slick Shoes (sort of breaking (growing up) up but their albums are good) Really nice guys
MxPx really rocks
Craig's Brother is really nice guys
an extinct band, "Value Pac" (Ryan Sheely)
-SKA
Supertones (they are a lot like Real Big Fish &Mighty Bosstones)
-Also some good Christian almost ganster Rap "Cross Movement"
-Hard Core
POD
Project 86
I will email some tracks if you want. I have all their CDs.
We got involved when our son was 12, taking him and his friends to the concerts, I would drive everyone in our van. I ended up liking the music and the positive lyrics. The bands are very bright personable people. It was a postive time for our son.
You don't have to give up the rock to clean up the messages.
I'll second the recommendation of the Offspring. Good hard music with a fairly libertarian bent. I'd also recommend Me First and the Gimme Gimmes. It's a cover band made up of guys from Swinging Utters, NOFX, Lagwagon, and Foo Fighters. They turn all kinds of songs (John Denver, Stevie Wonder, Beach Boys, Led Zepplin) into punk tunes. It's hard to be political when you're playing someone else's song (although their upcoming album does feature a Dixie Chicks song, apparently).
Blink182
Sum41
White Stripes
Offspring
Simple Plan
Our Lady Peace
He tried using my .410, but was more confident with his 20-ga. That made shooting more interesting, and he kept with it long enough to become proficient.
I started with a .410 used on small game. Because of the small effective pattern, I wound up shooting it the same way I used a .22, but shotguns and rifles are not handled the same way. The bad shooting habits I learned pretty much ruined me for wing shooting.
I'd stick to a 20-ga.
Also, Sublime - a bit like 311, only better and raunchier (songs about doing drugs, date rape etc.
stuff that someone who likes Green Day might like, but is much better than Green Day: old Replacements and Husker Du
Better than Green Day only because they know their role (pop-punk band having fun): the Offspring (bonus: "get a job" lyrics)
Better than Green Day musically, smarter than Green Day, less self-rightrous, but more pop hard rock than pop punk: Weezer
Misc: Get Up Kids, Flipp, American Hi-Fi, Sweet J.A.P.
I'm not that experienced, and I don't know about kids, but I shoot skeet sometimes on Ladies night, and some of the gals are very petite (though I am not). FWIW, a lot of the beginner ladies use Remington 1100s, mostly in 20 ga, but a few in 12. The more experienced ladies seem to mostly have Beretta over&unders, in 20 and 28 ga. 28 ga. ammo is not hard to find in my city, but this is a big shotgun sports center.
I have used both my old 20 ga. Rem 1100 and my son's 12 ga. over&under (it's not my gun, so I haven't had it fitted or added a pad). I've come to prefer the 12 ga just because I'm not such a great shot, and I can score better with it, and as others have said, it's nice to be able to break it open if you're going to walking around with it. Also the chokes are easy to switch out. It beats me up some, but with target loads it's tolerable. Again, though, at 5'8" I'm probably bigger than many pre-teens.
The Rem 1100 20 ga was my first gun as an 18 year old girl, and it's still useful for upland bird hunting and skeet, especially in an intermediate choke.
I've been shooting trap and skeet since I was 11. My first job was "pit boy" at the gun club, meaning I sat in the trap pits and manually reloaded the launcher for every throw. I started shooting with a Remington 1100 in 20 gauge, and moved to a 12 pretty quickly. I switched to double guns several years ago, and now use a Browning Citori over/under 12 gauge for most shotgun sports.
I also have quite a bit of experience introducing people to shooting sports. I've been instructing for a few years, including a fair number of youths.
I agree with the near consensus opinion above that 410 and 28 are bad choices. Ammo is scarce and expensive, and they throw such light loads that they are very difficult to hit with. If you are introducing a youngster to the shooting sports, the last thing you want is for them to be unable to hit anything. They'll get frustrated and discouraged, it won't be any fun, and they'll never want to try it again.
I agree that you want a gun that does not recoil too hard, either. If it does, your new shooter will get hurt, scared, not hit anything, and again, never want to do it again.
It's also important to realize, however, that recoil is not a function of gauge. Recoil is a function the shot load (mass of shot in the shell), velocity and mass of the firearm. Heavy shot loads moving at high velocities generate more recoil, regardless of gauge. Lighter shotguns recoil more from the same load than do heavier shotguns.
A 1 oz load at 1,300 fps generates the same recoil energy whether it is packaged in a 12 gauge shell or a 20 gauge. The 20 will recoil MORE, though, because the 20 gauge gun is smaller and, therefore, lighter. Its lower mass means more of the recoil energy is translated into rearward velocity than in the case of the same load being fired out of a heavier gun. Thus, it is not uncommon for people to report that a 20 gauge shotgun kicks HARDER than a 12, when fired with equivalent loads.
There are plenty of lightweight 12 gauge loads readily available. One of my favorites is the Winchester AA "featherlight", which has 7/8 oz. of shot -- the same as a typical 20 gauge target load. I know lots of shooters who swear by it. It is commonly available, inexpensive, soft shooting, and yet throws a dense enough pattern that beginners do well with it in skeet and handicap trap. Other manufacturers have similar 12 gauge "light target" loads that you can buy at just about any Wal-Mart.
Autoloaders will also kick less than pumps or doubles, because the cycling of the operating mechanism absorbs/redirects some of the energy. With equivalent loads, gas operated autos (like the Remington 11-87) will produce the least/softest recoil. Pumps and doubles will generate more felt recoil, because they have no mechanism to absorb it. Single shots will be among the hardest recoiling shotguns, because they are so light.
All that said, the fit of the shotgun is the most important thing. A shotgun that doesn't fit the shooter can hurt like heck. Another shotgun of the same configuration and weight, firing the same load, can be soft and pleasant to shoot.
The bottom line -- go to a good gun store with a wide selection of shotguns. Try out several models in 12 and 20 gauge, and pick something that fits your young shooter reasonably well. Better yet, find a shooting coach first and have him/her help you buy and fit the shotgun.
Several years ago I did a survey for Shotgun Sports magazine on flinching. (I write a mental training column and was the team physician for the US Shoot Team in the '80s.) We surveyed several hundred trap shooters and found that reptition seemed to be the most common factor involved in developing a flinch. Noise and recoil seemed to be the culprits that resulted in a flinch (a very distressing state of temporary paralysis of the trigger finger that usually occurs in a match situation, in other words you fail to pull the trigger when you are supposed to, like the "yips" in golf.)
The Mayo clinic has done studies with golfers and came to a similar conclusion that the stresses of putting and years of repeating the stroke under stress (20+ years of experience at the sport is the average for shotgun and golf when the problem surfaces) are a major factor in developing this problem. By starting out your teen with a lower recoil semi-automatic shotgun (which distributes the recoil over a longer period of time and is thus less painful) you are doing a favor that will continue on for years.
Besides, it is more fun to shoot clay targets and come home with no bruises on the shoulder and face. A well fitted shotgun (which will have to be re-fitted as your teen grows) with low recoil that shoots a big enough pattern to cover 3-5 clay target diameters is perfect. That way your teen will be able to hit 50% or more targets early in his/her career and have the incentive to continue on.
I got a cut-down NEF 20 gauge single-barrel break-opne when I was 8 (which is preteen, I think). I shot my first dove the same week.
However, I would strongly suggest you go with a Remington Light-Weight Wingmaster 870 pump in 20 gauge.
HAVE THE GUN FITTED! It makes an amazing difference when a gun is fitted by a professional. I TOTALLY recommend Jim Botsford at the Kiowa Creek Sporting Club (which is a beautiful sporting clays facility, BTW) just outside of Denver. He fitted my competition Winchester X-2, and as you can imagine, I am VERY picky. You might also consider getting the kid a lesson with the club pro, Warren Watson, who is excellent — I take lessons from him.
My rationale here is simple...the 870 is a lifetime gun. As the child gets older the gun can be adjusted by the stockfitter with shorter pads, etc. As an adult, 870 stocks are plentiful. The gun with screw-in chokes can be used for clays, hunting and, in later years, also makes a fine self-defense gun (I have an 870 20-gauge in my bedroom). It's also dirt cheap...I paid $120 for mine new in the box at a local gunstore.
I also think everyone should have at least one 870, so it makes sense to get 'em started young!
RE: GREEN DAY, they give me hives. Stick to Tito & Tarantula.
Your pal,
Michael Bane
Host, SHOOTING GALLERY
Producer, COWBOYS, AMERICAN RIFLEMAN TV
Another vote for a .410 to start a kid, even on clays.
Does he/she want to learn to be a good shot from the start, or just be "competive" thanks to the gun?
Definitely not a 12ga. unless your pre-teen is a big'un.
If the 28ga. is more common in your area, have them try this too. But if they're going to be the only one around with a 28, stick with the .410.
For the poster who said citing The Clash dates him, let me make him feel young.
If you like Green Day's latest biggest hit, you'll like Iggy Pop, since it is a complete ripoff of Iggy's The Passenger.
And I'll put in a word for some other oldtimers, but these guys (well, really just this guy) is still active: The Fall. If you like chunky riffs and can stand the tone-deaf voice, you'll find some laugh-out-loud commentary on current events from a world class curmudgeon. I've always assumed Mark Smith is a libertarian if only because he is an equal opportunity skeptic ...
And thanks for the rec's on the bands!
music and politics??? I try no to pay attention, although I havent listend to a Dixie Chicks song in many years now. What I do is not read the entertainment news and listen to the music.
-Bowling for Soup (TX-based, really catchy)
-Mest (emo-ish, but still pretty good)
-Dashboard Confessional (emo, their acoustic stuff is catchy)
-Drive-By Truckers (Alt-country - give them a shot, you'll probably like them)
-Allister (pop-punk, a la early Green Day)
-Guided by Voices (indie, but becoming more poppy)
-Jack's Mannequin (emo, but not in a crappy way)
-Luster (most famous for their opening song "Scotty Doesn't Know" from the Eurotrip movie)
-Less than Jake (ska-pop-punk, very catchy, check out the LP "Anthem")
-Motion City Soundtrack (indie-pop, very good)
And I'll second the recommendations for:
-MxPx (though their politics piss me off in the other direction)
-Yellowcard
-Get-up Kids
-American Hi-Fi (wuss-punk)
-Simple Plan (really wuss-punk, but the kids these days, that's what they like)
Isn't it "sieg heil to the president's yes-men"? Not quite the same thing. (And why can't people figure it out? "ie" = long e, "ei" = long i. Almost as annoying as would-be anti-semites who make their swastikas backwards ... read a book, people.)
My 11YO makes me listen to that song, without having the slightest clue as to the political content (poor kid thinks he's a Republican).
The Damned: one of the best ever
The Dead Boys: the best american band besides the ramones
Don't be like Jews who refuse to acknowledge the music of Wagner because he was a notorious anti-semite, or those who refuse to acknowledge the music of Richard Strauss, because he supported the Nazis in his dotage, or Nazis who dismissed the music of Felix Mendelssohn because he was Jewish.
I highly recommend either Pink Flag or Zen Arcade to you...old style (1977 and 1984 respectively) but fantastic nonetheless. Especially Zen Arcade: "Chartered Trips," "What's Going On" (famously plagiarized by the Smashing Pumpkins for "1979"), "Whatever," "Pink Turns To Blue," "Newest Industry": these are the songs that made Green Day possible aside from their UK-Buzzcocks influence.
Not a fan of Green Day, but I'd cite Blink182, Sum 41, and Offspring as having the same kind of punk-pop sound. Now I'm really not into those groups, but one similar one that I will heavily ensorse is called Pontius Copilot. I think it's impossible not to enjoy their album "Madagascar" with songs like "Maradona's Knees."
As for the Ramones, although Johnny had his "Kill a commie for mommy" shirt, they did go after Reagan with "Bonzo Goes to Bitberg." And the politics of that one can't even make me cringe because it's just such a perfectly put-together song.
What is the purpose of the shotgun? Is shooting clay targets the goal? Or to get them familiar with firearms in general?
The Muffs - The Muffs. Think of Billy Joe as a tall skinny girl with bangs and a buzz-saw voice who never writes about politics and you have The Muffs.
I would avoid the autoloader Remingtons. Pulling the bolt back takes way too much strength for a little kid and the autoloader feature makes it much easier to accidentally discharge. Semi-autos are for grown-ups and only reasonably experienced grown ups at that. 20 ga. sounds right.
If Wagner's music was full of anti-semitic lyrics, I would expect that most Jews wouldn't want to listen to it. There's an enormous difference between not admiring music because of the private beliefs of the composer, and not admiring music with noxious lyrics right in the mix.
recommendation out of left field: VKTMS's "Midget"
Any "classic punk"- The Sex Pistols (whose only real politics are anarchist), The Ramones (whose songs are mostly apolitical), and Minor Threat -
Beyond that, if you're looking for something matching the similar more melodic pop-punk sounds of Green Day, try Blink 182 (if you want to listen to songs about growing up), New Found Glory (emo songs about girls), Saves the Day (Modern Day alienation), Mxpx, Social Distoprtion, and Rancid (at least, most of their early stuff which is politically vague enough to be not quite so obnoxious.)
And also, keep in mind that prior to their last album, American Idiot, Green Day's music was no so overtly (and annoyingly) political. As someone who grew up on punk, I had a big problem with the numerous punk bands coming out in 2004 telling people to vote for Kerry. Punk isn't supposed to be about being pargmatic- a real punk band would be telling kids not to vote at all.
Back when Green Day were just another band on Lookout! Records I really liked Sweet Baby. Today I'd recommend The Lillingtons' "Death By Television" and Canada's Hanson Brothers. Staying in that genre of pop-punk, of course.
This verse from the song "Bandwagon" off their album Full Leather Jacket sums up their politics fairly well:
Here are a few more bands.
*Screeching Weasel
*Lagwagon
*RUFiO.
*Go Betty Go
*Less than Jake
*Chixdiggit!
*Craig's Brother
*Dance Hall Crashers (One of my favorites. They feature two female vocalists.)
*Goldfinger
*Millencolin
If it's Green Day style politics you're trying to avoid, then stay away from NOFX. They're more overt in their dislike for Midwesterners and anyone not like them than Green Day has ever been.
Hope that helps.
Fugazi
Sleater-Kinney
Propagandhi
Dead Kennedys
Minor Threat
Bad Religion
Jawbreaker
Pennywise
Billy Bragg
Morrissey
The Thermals
Just my 2 cents
BCN
As to their politics - they don't believe the UN is helpful and they believe all politicians want is your vote.
FYI, urchin was an excellent product that required being installed server side. It was aquired by Google a few years back and they supposedly took the technology from it and integrated it in to their analytics product
After all, think about all of those nasty murders and suicides we had before the Gun Control Act of 1968. Glad we don't have those anymore . . . except for all the violence from assault weapons. I for one am very glad that violence from assault weapons disappeared after 1994.
No. Your preteen will be much better off without a gun. After all, what possible use is a gun other than for committing a crime?
Dan
Agreed. I'm kicking myself for not suggesting that. A 20 gauge double barrel would be an outstanding choice. I am a huge fan of the safety advantages of break-open shotguns.
It's worth getting quality here. In my limited experience, inexpensive double barrels are not generally a good buy. Perhaps a nice used Browning BSS. I have one in 20 gauge and it is just awesome.
Also, I for one would never purchase anything by someone named Browning (whoever he was).
Dan
I'm crying tears of joy. That Chinese knockoff is actually pretty good. The real thing will set you back big time.
I'd also recommend The Queers, Kid Dynamite, and F.Y.P. were all moderately political, but more in an "I hate fascists" kind of way. American Steel was mostly apolitical. The Lawrence Arms is also a great suggestion.
A few more:
The Mistreaters
Samiam
The Smoking Popes
Ted Leo and the Pharmacists (It's not punk at all, but I don't know anyone in the punk scene--or any other scene--who doesn't love it.)
The Epoxies (Pop-punk + Nerd Rock, a la Devo. Oh yes.)
One Man Army
Discount
Knapsack
Superchunk (Maybe, very high-pitched vocals turn some people off)
None More Black
Ash (Very cheesy, but then, so is Green Day)
Also, you might try Sambomaster. They're an amazing Japanese band, and you can't possibly be offended by the lyrics if you don't understand them.
I didn't think about that. I'm afraid to go home now.
With any luck, perhaps my unmanned weapons will start fighting each other rather than taking out the whole neighborhood.
Dan
True enough, but it would be even worse if you could only have what other people think you need!