The Volokh Conspiracy

The Volokh Conspiracy (and Its Comments) Cited in The New York Times,

in an interesting article by Linda Greenhouse on this year's relative paucity of women among Supreme Court clerks. The lines I most agree with from the article are, "Unaware of the overall drop in numbers, Justice Souter said he assumed it reflected no more than a random variation among this year's applicants. That was also the assessment offered by Justice Breyer ...." One swallow does not make a summer, and one year's data — especially when the data involves ten people who hire a total of 37 clerks — doesn't make a usefully analyzable phenomenon.

UPDATE: Two commenters' suggestions lead me to add a link to the earlier post, and expressly note that the earlier post was prompted by Amber (Prettier than Napoleon).

Also, there's an error in the graphic accompanying the Times table (though the Times generally deserves praise for providing the raw data): In 2001-02, Thomas hired three women clerks, not two: Margaret Ryan, Neomi Rao, and Sigal Mandelker. I assume the Times people were misled by the fact that the name of one, Sigal Mandelker, is not obviously feminine -- at least to someone unfamiliar with Israeli names -- but she is indeed female. (I know Neomi and the fourth clerk, Matthew Berry, quite well, and know Sigal through them.) Not a big deal by any means, but I thought I'd note this for people who are really interested in the data.

jgshapiro (mail):
More interesting than the article are the interactive graphs that accompany the article on the number of women law clerks hired by each justice over the past 7 years and the percentage of women overall over the past 17 years.

While variation might explain the hiring of most of the justices (excluding Roberts and Alito, from whom there is only one year of data), there doesn't seem to be much of a variation in the hiring pattern of Justice Kennedy or Scalia: they rarely hire women. Also, only Ginsburg hired more than two women in any one year. Rehnquist generally hired one woman per year, but only one woman.

Since there are only 9 justices, the refusal of 2 out of 9 to hire women generally, plus Rehnquists apparent unwillingness to hire more than one per year, coupled with the general pattern of no more than 2 women clerks per justice, is going to have a significant effect on the overall percentage of women hired.

Still very strange about this year: were the women graduating in June 05 (and clerking on the Supreme Court in '06-07) that much worse than the women graduating over the past decade? That is quite a statistical variation. You would have to go back 14 years (per the graph) to see a similar variation.
8.30.2006 6:50am
Mises Von Ludwig (mail):
Still very strange about this year: were the women graduating in June 05 (and clerking on the Supreme Court in '06-07) that much worse than the women graduating over the past decade?

Yes. Sex in the City just ruined them for law.
8.30.2006 6:55am
DJR:
Strange that you should agree "most" with the two lines stating what two of the Justices said. I doubt you have any independent ability to know whether those quotes are any more accurate than any others in the article.

On the other hand, there was no suggestion that the decline was due to less natural ability for the law among women, which I suppose you would have agreed with more.
8.30.2006 9:08am
Mala (mail):
Is there data on the gender composition of the applicant pool so we can assess whether, in fact, this year's drop actually reflects random statistical variation or deliberate choices by justices to hire men and not women?
8.30.2006 9:46am
A.S.:
EV: May I suggest you post a link to the VC post that Greenhouse cited in her article?
8.30.2006 11:13am
NRWO:
Eugene:

Don’t you think you should acknowledge in this post that the “interesting” question relating to the paucity of female clerks on the SC was originally posed by Amber in Prettier than Napoleon? I think Amber had priority in raising the original question, which, to your credit, you acknowledged in your original post. If Amber was in fact the first to raise the issue, that would be a bit of a coup for her (a relatively unknown blogger).
8.30.2006 11:15am
NRWO:
Original Post: http://volokh.com/posts/1152309759.shtml#118752
8.30.2006 11:17am
HL:
I happen to know at least half the reason why Thomas has dropped from his typical 2 female clerks to zero. I am friends with one of the female clerks he has hired. She told him last year—interviewing while pregnant—that she wanted to stay home longer with her now 8-month-old baby, so Thomas agreed to let her clerk in 2007 instead. He's accommodating a woman's parenting choices and not scratching her off the list because she puts family ahead of career... Women should be applauding.
8.30.2006 11:18am
williamandmaryalum (mail):
Is it just me or does Greenhouse seem to indirectly attack conservatives with her comments about Scalia being unable to find "ideologically pure" women candidates?
8.30.2006 11:28am
Ben4343434:
Mala, from the article:

"In recent years, more than a third of Justice Souter’s law clerks have been women; since women rarely make up as much as a third of the applicant pool, he said, they have been somewhat overrepresented among his hires."

Based on this, I find the conclusion that Kennedy and Scalia "refuse" to hire many women to be somewhat overreaching. Even if it could be characterized as a 'refusal,' the fact that women have been somewhat overrepresented among other justices results in an overall composition that reflects the applicant pool. Whether the applicant pool itself disproportionately excludes qualified females is another question.

Also, as a side note, the author speculates that Scalia's predominantly male hiring pattern may reflect him being unable to find a suitable number of conservative female clerks. However, I thought I remembered hearing in law school that Scalia likes to hire liberal clerks that he can argue with so he can better refine his arguments. Is this a law school myth? I also wonder that perhaps not too many women feel like working for Scalia; therefore, maybe not too many women apply for clerkship with him.
8.30.2006 11:31am
DavidBernstein (mail):
Fourteen women last year, seven this year, an average of 10.5 out of 36. In the article, one of the Justices is quoted as stating that less than a third of the clerkship applicants are women. Putting all other considerations aside, it seems that the two-year average is very close to matching the applicant pool.
8.30.2006 11:37am
Houston Lawyer:
There seems to be some presumption here that there is a correct number of women that should be hired as clerks. When hiring at the extremely high end of the spectrum by a very limited number of individuals, all types of statistical oddities can happen. I'm sure most groups in the country are underrepresented among these clerks.
8.30.2006 11:40am
Jesse R.:
I think the conclusion that this is just random statistical variation is too glib. Comparing 7/37 this year with 16/43 last year, the change in the fraction who are women is -0.18. I just did a back-of-the-envelope calculation, and came up with the result that this is awfully close to statistically significant at the 5% level, and definitely significant at the 10% level. That is, if the underlying process had the same mean in each year, the probability that the dropoff would have been this large just by chance is about 6%.

Now, I won't defend this specific calculation too far: There may be random factors that affect cohorts, which would make this incorrect. (And, for the real stat-heads, this is a one-sided test.) But it is at least not obvious that this change is small enough to be easily consistent with random year-to-year variation.
8.30.2006 12:06pm
taco5000 (mail):
The original Volokh post, as well as the NY Times articles, cites the lack of female editors at top law journals as a reason for less female clerks. The article also mentions that there are less female applicants for Supreme Court clerkships. What neither explores is the possibility that less women participate in the writing competitions to be on a law journal. I don't know if this is a problem at other schools, but it certainly has been a problem at the school that I attend. Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence regarding the relative number of women who participate in law review writing competitions at their law school?
8.30.2006 12:10pm
Toby:
Despite Jesse's protest, David's statistics sound like Sounds like good ol' Regression to Mean
8.30.2006 1:21pm
Eugene Volokh (www):
jgshapiro: (1) You might want to recheck that interactive graphic a bit, since it doesn't seem consistent with your claim that "only Ginsburg hired more than two women in any one year." (2) Apropos Rehnquist, it might be worth noting something that isn't often knownm, but that's visible from the graphic -- he hired three clerks a year, not four, so his average is pretty much at the Court's overall level. (3) You have no way of knowing this, but there's at least one error in the chart: In 2001-02, Thomas hired three women clerks (see Wikipedia, but I can confirm that from personal knowledge); I assume the Times people were misled by the fact that the name of one, Sigal Mandelker, is not obviously feminine (at least to someone unfamiliar with Israeli names), but I've met her and can attest that she is indeed female.
8.30.2006 1:55pm
Don Anon:
Isn't it obvious that the drop is the result of (1) changes in personnel at the Court and (2) changes in hiring in Thomas's chambers? The first reason seems like a long term change. The second seems like a temporary blip. So the numbers will likely drop but not be as dramatically low as this Term.

As for personnel changes, O'Connor almost always hired at least 2 women each year; she deliberately sought a gender balance among her clerks. She was replaced by Alito, who hasn't made that a priority in his hiring so far, and didn't, as far as I'm aware, make that a priority in his hiring on the 3d Circuit. Perhaps that will change (I doubt it.)

Similarly, the old Chief typically hired 1 female clerk per year, but he only hired 3 clerks each year. The current Chief also seems to be hiring about 1 female clerk a year, but he's hiring 4 clerks over all. That lowers the percentage of women in the cohort.

The other factor seems to be an unusual drop in the number of women in Thomas's chambers. That's probably temporary in light of Thomas's hiring history.

By the way, Greenhouse's article notes that Thomas has hired lots of women over the years. And the graphic accompanying the article makes clear that he's hired more women than Souter. So it's unfair to say that Greenhouse puts all the blame on conservative justices.

(Eugene is also correct that the graph misstates the number of women Thomas hired in 2001-2002.)
8.30.2006 2:05pm
Observer (mail):
I clerked on the Court a very long time ago (in what seems like a galaxy far, far away), and maybe things have changed since then, but it used to be that to even be considered for a clerkship, you needed to graduate in the top (or at the very top) of your class at a prestigious law school, and be one of the top editors on the law review. Law reviews in those day were by invitation only to the students with the highest grades, with a few exceptions for students to write their way on. I don't think lower court clerkships mattered very much because the Justices generally picked their clerks before the lower court judges had much if any experience with the clerks. Justices for the most part also tried to pick clerks with whom they could work closely: this would rule out, for the most part, clerks with passionate political/judicial views contrary to the Justice's. Last, some Justices just prefered guys. The great liberal Justice Brennan, for example, never hired any female clerks as far as I can recall. I strongly suspect that the Justices today, who have grown up in a different era and have worked with women lawyers for years, don't share that antiquated discomfort with women lawyers.

In any event, who cares about this besides Linda Greenhouse? What possible public import is it whom the Justices pick as their personal assistants?
8.30.2006 2:23pm
jgshapiro (mail):
David Bernstein:

You might want to recheck that interactive graphic a bit, since it doesn't seem consistent with your claim that "only Ginsburg hired more than two women in any one year.

I should have said that only Ginsburg regularly hired more than 50% women in any one year, but come to think of it, that would have been overstating it, since she only did it twice in 7 years. (Even given the mistake in the graph re Thomas, no other justice did it more than once in 7 years).

That's obviously going to keep the mean down, because if 2 justices rarely hire any women, other justices generally hire 1 or 2 women, and hardly anyone ever hires more than 50% women, given only 9 justices, you're going to get a mean of substantially less than 50%, regardless of the applicant pool
8.30.2006 2:33pm
Jim Rhoads (mail):
Yes, jgs, but women will still be overrepresented since they are only 30% of the applicant pool.

That point was not made clear in the Greenhouse article.
8.30.2006 3:58pm
JosephSlater (mail):
Observer:

I was with you until your last two sentences. If there's no significant sex discrimination -- and there may well not be -- it's not an issue. But, as I assume you know from being a clerk, this job isn't what is generally meant by (to use your term) "personal assistant." This is arguably THE PLUM job in the entire legal profession. Folks that have held that position have a significant leg up over those who haven't in almost all elite practice and legal academic jobs. A number of firms give significant signing bonuses to former S.Ct. clerks.

IF it were true that women, as a group, were being significantly disadvantaged in getting such jobs because those doing the hiring preferred not to work with women (and again, I understand that we don't know if that's true), then I think women in the legal profession would have a legitimate interest and gripe.
8.30.2006 4:49pm
jgshapiro (mail):
Jim Rhoads:

Even if women make up 1/3 of the applicant pool, that doesn't tell you that they are overrepresented, since that would assume that on average, the men and women applying are evenly distributed in abilities. Do we know that? Or are we just assuming?

For example, it may be that many men who are in the top 10%, but not in the top 5% of their law school class frequently apply for SCOTUS clerkships, but women who are in the top 10% but not in the top 5% tend not to apply. If that were the case, if this were a strict meritocracy, you would expect to see a greater percentage of the women hired out of the applicant pool relative to the men.

In any event, I still find it interesting that Scalia and Kennedy have hired very few women between them over the past 7 years. I wonder why? Do they hire last and all the best women from the applicant pool are taken? Do women not want to work for them and tend to accept competing offers from other justices? Do they not like working with women? 7% and 11% women hired (respectively) over 7 years seems too low to be a statistical variation from the percentage hired by other justices.
8.30.2006 5:37pm
Jim Rhoads (mail):
JGS:

We have no evidence one way or the other about the respective qualifications of the women and the men. Why assume they are not evenly distributed?
8.30.2006 6:21pm
HL:
There is reason to believe that fewer women who are at the top of their law school classes are applying, which VC hit upon very precisely in the original post. As a woman who did not seriously pursue a clerkship for reasons 1 &2, while never seeing any gender discrepancy in law school success, I think this explanation is quite right.

This is just one year, and any serious study would have to look at much more than one year. But it led me to wonder whether the women who had the law school credentials to get the prestigious but often out-of-town appellate clerkships that are stepping-stones to the Supreme Court

1. might be more likely to be married than comparable men (presumably because women marry slightly younger than men),
2. might have more difficulty getting their husbands to move with them than men would have getting their wives to move with them (perhaps because the women's spouses are more likely to have hard-to-move jobs than the men's spouses), and
3. might have more difficulty clerking, especially in a highly demanding clerkship, if they have children than comparable men would.
If the answers to some of these questions are yes, then this might lead some of these women to drop out of the clerkship race, likely by not looking for a prestigious out-of-town appellate clerkship.


So are qualified applicants evenly distributed between men and women? If you define "qualified" according to qualifications upon graduation from law school, as jgshapiro implicitly does, I think the answer is yes. But if you define "qualified" as people who have an appellate clerkship under their belt and the ability to keep moving every year or two, then I would not be surprised at all to find that fewer women are "qualified" for the Supreme Court competition.

Of course it matters a whole lot, because a Supreme Court clerkship determines career opportunities for the rest of one's life. But if law-school-qualified women don't get to the SC clerkship because of lack of mobility, affirmative action for women applicants is not the answer. All that does is put single women who are less qualified ahead of married women who are more qualified for future career prospects. Maybe it suggests the legal profession needs to have a broader view of how to identify the best and brightest. Why shouldn't a position at one of the most competitive law firms or government positions be considered as good an indicator of competence as a clerkship? And why can't firms call out their high achievers with public awards, not just private bonuses? Maybe Scalia is unfair to women applicants because they are less likely to play tennis with him. But I think the real problem is the myopic attitude of the profession as a whole, not the hiring practices of a couple of Justices.
8.30.2006 7:18pm
Brian Garst (www):
We have no evidence one way or the other about the respective qualifications of the women and the men. Why assume they are not evenly distributed?

He assumed no such thing. Rather, he was correctly pointing out that we shouldn't automatically assume that they are.
8.30.2006 9:13pm
Mark Brown (mail):
I looked at this problem ten years ago and found a couple of interesting facts:

1. The Justices' male preferences (in the early 1990s) could not be explained by either females' underrepresentation in top-tier law schools or their underrepresentation on top-tier law review boards--that is, while women made up 1/3 of top-tier boards, they still only garnered 1/4 of the clerkships; and

2. Females tended to hold significantly fewer appointments as clerks on the U.S. Courts of Appeals than would be expected (given law school performance), which might explain the Supreme Court's lower numbers.

The question I had then--and wonder about today--is whether the Courts of Appeals have a male bias. Or perhaps (as many have suggested), females do not pursue clerkships at the same rate as males (because of family or whatever else).
8.31.2006 2:29pm