The Volokh Conspiracy

With Friends Like These Gonzales Doesn't Need Democrats:

The negative reviews of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' Senate Testimony are pouring in, even from those who might be expected to defend the Bush Administration. For example, here is the opening of Byron York's coverage on National Review Online:

Judging by his testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee Thursday, there are three questions about the U.S. attorneys mess that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales wants answered: What did I know? When did I know it? And why did I fire those U.S. attorneys?

As the day dragged on, it became clear — painfully clear to anyone who supports Gonzales — that the attorney general didn’t know the answers. Much of the time, he explained, he didn’t really know much at all — he was just doing what his senior staff recommended he do.

Gonzales said he would resign when he concluded he could no longer be effective in his position. Is there any doubt he passed this point already? Senator Tom Coburn also asked an important question at the hearing: "Why should you not be judged by the same standards by which you judged these dismissed U.S. attorneys." It appears Gonzales did not have much of answer, prompting this response from Coburn:

I would just say, Mr. Attorney General, it’s my considered opinion that the exact same standards should be applied to you in how this was handled. And it was handled incompetently. The communication was atrocious. It was inconsistent. It’s generous to say that there were misstatements. That’s a generous statement. And I believe you ought to suffer the consequences that these others have suffered. And I believe that the best way to put this behind us is your resignation.

Just an Observer:
There is an apparent consensus that Gonzales should resign, whether or not malfeasance in the matter of the U.S. attorney firings is ever proved or not. Many, mostly Democrats, say he is dishonest. Many others, mostly Republicans, say he is merely incompetent. (The two views are not mutually exclusive.)

Those factions, and everyone else, need to think about what it will mean if George W. Bush refuses to do the right thing, and insists that Gonzales stay on for the sake of proving the President is The Decider. How will the GOP senators who now say publicly or privately that Gonzales is "no longer effective" actually behave differently if Bush continues to act out his obvious contempt for Congress?
4.21.2007 2:53pm
Mike Rosenberg (mail) (www):
Actually, I think Sen. Coburn mispoke when he said "I would just say, Mr. Attorney General, it’s my considered opinion that the exact same standards should be applied to you in how this was handled." By that standard, there is no one who more deserves to the AG, because there is no one who better passes standard -- being a "loyal Bushie"....
4.21.2007 2:55pm
Henry (mail):
Of course Senator Coburn would say, "I believe that the best way to put this behind us is your resignation." He, and Republicans generally, want to put this behind us and prevent revelation of the true depth of the problem. Gonzales, as guilty as he is, is largely Bush's scapegoat. TalkingPointsMemo.com reported that Sen. Domenici asked Gonzales to fire U.S. attorney Iglesias, and Gonzales said that he'd need Bush's ok. Domenici called Bush and got it. Congress needs to investigate what the U.S. attorneys who were NOT fired have done to avoid being fired. The attorney who prosecuted Georgia Thompson (see thread below) is just one example.
4.21.2007 3:10pm
Originalist Texan (mail):
What I don't understand (actually, I kinda do) is why Congress thinks it has any power over a member of the Executive branch at all.

Congress can't fire Gonzales, only the President can. These hearings were nothing more than a vehicle for grandstanding politicians to get their moments in the spotlight.

I wonder how Congress would react if a member of the Senate were hauled before the Justice Department with no evidence of illegality, only incompetence?
4.21.2007 4:26pm
Kovarsky (mail):
Originalist Texan,

I don't think anybody in Congress believes that they can fire a member of the Executive branch.

I'm not really sure what you mean by a "member of hte Senate" getting "hauled before the Justice Department" with no evidence of illegality. The Justice Department isn't in the business of public hearings for individuals againts which it is contemplating the pursuit of a criminal sanction.
4.21.2007 4:38pm
Oren (mail):
Congress certainly can fire him. Look it up.
4.21.2007 4:38pm
Kovarsky (mail):
Wait, what do we mean by "fire?" I have in mind a technical definition, whereas as some others seem to have in mind a more colloquial notion that he may be "forced out" or be the subject of some other official action which eventually subjects him to remvoal.
4.21.2007 4:42pm
Steve Lubet (mail):
Originalist Texan:

Congress has the power to legislate, and that necessarily includes the power to investigate. In this case, the possible misuse of the prosecution power might well lead to legislative reform; especially with regard to the need for senate confirmation of successor U.S. attorneys.

Your claim that congress has "no power" over members of the executive branch is anything but originalist (maybe you ought to call yourself "Loyalist Texan"). If nothing else, Congress has the power to demand that the executive to provide an explanation. Or don't you think that "checks and balances" apply to this administration?
4.21.2007 5:01pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
The way in which the Congress can fire Gonzales is to impeach him. Here is today's civics lesson.

Under Article II, Section 4:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 5:

The House of Representatives shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

Article I, Section 3, Clause 6:

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments.

The President can't use his pardon power to undo the effects of impeachment as Article II, Section 2, Clause 1 explicitly exempts impeachment:

...he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.


Read your Constitution.
4.21.2007 5:04pm
Joseph E. Davis (mail):
Is being an incompetent, politicized boob an impeachable offense?
4.21.2007 5:08pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
It is important to be aware that the "high crimes and misdemeanors" that form the basis for impeachment need not be criminal offenses. Legal opinion dating back to the 1386 impeachment of Michael de la Pole makes this clear. Here is a link to a report issued by the House Judiciary Committee in 1974 on what constitutes grounds for impeachment.
4.21.2007 5:13pm
Enoch:
Is being an incompetent, politicized boob an impeachable offense?

Oughta be if it's not.
4.21.2007 5:39pm
J○n (mail):
Joseph E. Davis:

If it's impeachable, the incompetent, politicized boobs in the Senate should probably think twice before pointing fingers.
4.21.2007 5:45pm
ngh:
From what I understand, the grounds for impeachment are solely the discretion of Congress. If Congress wants to, it can. I doubt it will go that far in this case, though.
4.21.2007 5:46pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
In practice it is probably true that the grounds for impeachment are what the Congress decides they are, but there does seem to be a consensus in the literature that mere difference in political affiliation or policy is not valid grounds for impeachment. If such arguably spurious grounds were used, I don't know whether an appeal to the Supreme Court would be possible and what the result would be if the Supreme Court ruled that the grounds were unconstitutional.
4.21.2007 6:08pm
Steve Lubet (mail):
the constitution is explicit that the senate has the "sole power" to try impeachments, so the supreme court has no authority to review the senate's verdict.

but don't worry about spurious grounds, as the 2/3 requirement is a solid safeguard against solely political uses of the impeachment power. in the current senate, for example, there are 49 republicans, meaning that at least 16 (plus all 51 democrats and independents) would have to vote to remove gonzales.
4.21.2007 6:55pm
Advantage?:
Is lying under oath an impeachable offense?
4.21.2007 7:51pm
Sticky (mail):
Lying under oath, or for that matter, wearing brown socks, is an impeachable offense if enough Congressmen decide it's an impeachable offense. I think most would agree that lying under oath to a Senate committee would be considered a "high crime or misdeamnor."

Steve, would the Supreme Court be able to review the Senate's decision. While the Senate would still be the "sole power to try all impeachments", the Constitution is silent on the review of such verdict. And, because the Constitution plainly states that the President may not use his pardon power in cases of impeachment, does the omission of a restriction of judicial review by the Supreme Court mean anything?
4.21.2007 8:03pm
David M. Nieporent (www):
In practice it is probably true that the grounds for impeachment are what the Congress decides they are, but there does seem to be a consensus in the literature that mere difference in political affiliation or policy is not valid grounds for impeachment.
We know that the constitution originally included 'maladministration' along with high crimes &misdemeanors, and then they removed that word. That pretty strongly implies that malfeasance, not policy or even incompetence, is required.

But I think it pretty likely that the Court would declare it to be nonjusticiable. Six justices explicitly said so in Nixon v. U.S., and one more -- Souter -- was a little muddled on the subject. Only two justices, neither of whom are on the court any more (Blackmun and White) indicated a significant willingness for a judicial role. And even that seemed to be mainly limited to a review of procedural issues, not substantive ones.
4.21.2007 8:16pm
Anderson (mail) (www):
It's impressive, in a bad way, to see *anyone* wonder "why Congress thinks it has any power over a member of the Executive branch at all."

How does one graduate from high school w/out having heard the phrase "checks and balances"?
4.21.2007 10:51pm
Bob from Ohio (mail):
It shows a distinct lack of understanding of GOP politics to think that National Review or Tom Coburn would defend Gonzalez. National Review has been anti-Bush since Miers at least. National Review considers the AG "pro-amnesty" on immigration and soft on abortion and generally way too moderate. Coburn has two issues, pork and abortion. Again, Gonzalez is considered soft on abortion so why would Coburn defend him?
4.21.2007 11:30pm
Bob from Ohio (mail):
Just realized that this is an Adler, not a Kerr, post. Since he writes for National Review, Prof. Adler certainly knows better.
4.21.2007 11:31pm
Just an Observer:
Bob from Ohio,

I disagree with your generalization about National Review being "anti-Bush." On the biggest controversies involving the White House, DOJ, executive power and war-on-terror issues, the columnists and bloggers at NR and NRO have generally acted as a pro-Bush echo chamber.
4.21.2007 11:49pm
Eli Rabett (www):
The Senate has a lot of other levers, for example not holding hearings on judicial appointment.
4.22.2007 12:06am
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
Steve Lubet,

I agree that the Supreme Court is unlikely to take such a case, but it isn't clear to me that the Constitution is explicit on this. I don't see that the fact that the Senate is granted "sole Power to try" impeachments implies that there can be no judicial review. Is there precedent for the interpretation of "try" as including appellate review?
4.22.2007 2:43am
Cornellian (mail):
I don't see that the fact that the Senate is granted "sole Power to try" impeachments implies that there can be no judicial review. Is there precedent for the interpretation of "try" as including appellate review?


I seem to recall that the Supreme Court has decided (US v Nixon? - the judge, not the former president) that it's a political question, thus non-justiciable, i.e. you can't appeal to the courts the decision of Congress to impeach you or of the Senate to remove you from office.
4.22.2007 1:22pm
tvk:
Let us not forget that Congress can also effectively fire the AG by eliminating the Justice Department, defunding his salary, etc. In short, there is no impropriety whatsoever in Congress grilling the AG for being incompetent.
4.22.2007 5:09pm
Anderson (mail) (www):
it's a political question, thus non-justiciable

My thought also, though of course, that's also what I thought the Court would hold in Bush v. Gore. So who knows?
4.23.2007 11:10am
abb3w:
Myself, I'd prefer impeachment to resignation or firing; the latter two do not assure "disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust or profit under the United States".

As for the question of appeal, "The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution; [...] to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls; [...] In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.

Now, IAmNotALawyer, so I am not sure an Impeachment qualifies as matter under either Law or Equity. It may be arguably neither. An appeal to the hypothetical brown-socks impeachment might be heard on Equity grounds, and perhaps Cruel and Unusual Punishment (if no other offenders have been so punished), but impeachment for lying to congress would have no such hope. Probably the clearest thing would be if Congress were to pass a law expressly indicating that the Supreme Court would not have such jurisdiction for impeachments, but that would require more foresight than I expect the current body could potentially muster.
4.23.2007 12:13pm
Randy R. (mail):
But today Bush showed full confidence behing Gonzalez.

How can anyone defend this man as a president of the US? He ignores the will of the people, and defends a man who has no credibility left as AG. Is this anyway to run a country?
4.23.2007 12:30pm
Anderson (mail) (www):
He ignores the will of the people

Nah, just 67% of the people. Shows character!
4.23.2007 3:55pm
Anderson (mail) (www):
National Review has been anti-Bush since Miers at least.

Here's how NR does "anti-Bush":
Now the president has to face the wrath of principled conservatives who have come to the sane conclusion that it's time for Gonzales to go. Like National Review's Kathryn Jean Lopez, who writes:

You should know that I clapped extra hard for the president on Saturday night just because we were in hostile territory. Had he made that comment Friday, I would have had a hard time. (I would have still applauded of course, but just less enthusiastically!)

Profiles in courage all around.
Indeed. You start applauding less enthusiastically, and Bob From Ohio starts thinking you're "anti-Bush."
4.23.2007 4:03pm
Just an Observer:
From the stories in today's New York Times (At Least the Boss Was Satisfied by Gonzales’s Answers) and Washington Post (Bush Asserts Increased Confidence in Gonzales) it seems that Bush is determined not to budge. He has assumed his default stance toward the other branches, which is "You can't make me."

So I repeat my original comment above. What does everyone do now?

We all must consider how we will react to the President's intransigience. That applies especially to those Republican senators and conservative critics of Gonzales whose opinions are being spurned.
4.24.2007 11:34am