Will Congress Amend FISA This Week?:
It looks like Congress might vote to amend FISA this week; the New York Times has the story here. I don't know the details, but it looks like the issue would be a narrow amendment to clarify that the interception of foreign-to-foreign communications are not covered by FISA. More when details are available. For my own views of how FISA should be amended, see my forthcoming article, Updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
Terry Steichen:
Orin, I made these comments in your earlier posting on this paper, but I think I was too late for getting any reactions. So I'll bring them up again.

I suggest that what you refer to as 'data-focused' surveillance might more usefully and accurately referred to as 'pattern-based' surveillance. Though you mention packet-switching and other technologies several times in your paper ("Updating the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act), I don't believe that the technology per se is really relevant. Instead, what I believe you're referring to is searching communications based on patterns, not identities. The rest of my comment will be based on that (hopefully accurate) assumption.

There are two important factors that I didn't notice any mention of in your paper. One is the difference between information obtained from foreign intelligence surveillance, and that obtained from law enforcement surveillance. Of critical importance (to the 4th Amendment) is to prevent the former (typically obtained with a lesser standard of proof for actions that may or may not be crimes, and may or may not involve U.S. citizens) and the latter (based on the much stricter standard of probable cause, etc.).

Second is the difference between targeted surveillance and 'fishing expeditions.' It seems possible, even likely, that intelligence operations sweep the world 'fishing' for useful tidbits of foreign intelligence information. But domestically, particularly from a law enforcement perspective, such 'fishing' runs flat up against the 4th Amendment. For the 'gray area' at issue here (international communications to/from the U.S.), broad 'fishing' surveillance must have some curbs.

This is where your two-track warrant may come into play. If the government wants to conduct foreign intelligence surveillance not targeted on an individual but in a domestic setting, it seems reasonable to require that this be done with a specific pattern defined. The government must get a pattern-based warrant, and in doing so, must make some kind of showing that there's reason to believe that communications exhibiting this pattern will likely pull in valuable foreign intelligence and likely NOT pull in private, protected communications. (This second part is vitally important.)

People generally have a view of government that is benign, even benevolent (and in no small ways, incompetent). They naturally get this feeling because the people in government are that way - few if any are nasty, aggressive, let alone evil. What people almost always overlook (or fail to appreciate in the first place) is that these 'nice' people, when operating collectively, almost invariably adopt patterns of behavior that can easily lead the worst kinds of abuses. Nowhere is this more true than in activities that stem from secret surveillance.

I'm not sure that it's possible to develop meaningful standards so that patterns can be used as the basis for warrants that still protect civil liberties. It's worth exploring, I suppose. But unless and until we can demonstrate this, I would strongly argue against any change to the present law. I would certainly vigorously oppose any idea of conducing the pattern-based surveillance without regulation.
8.1.2007 1:24pm
paul lukasiak (mail):
Responding to a question asked in a previous thread...

What is the policy concern that suggests we need to "audit" foreign-to-foreign communications at all? If the call is from London to Paris, I don't see why it should make a difference if it happens to be routed through the US at some point. What is the abuse we need to protect against?

well, I don't really understand it, but according to the article, the audits are needed "to make sure that it has not ensnared any Americans." I think what it means is that it gets audited to ensure that its not abused.

What I'm wondering is if the real purpose of this law isn't to allow warrantless wiretapping of foreign based calls/emails to US numbers/email address that are automatically forwarded to another overseas number/email -- which would represent a very significant opportunity for abuse.
8.1.2007 2:10pm
Just an Observer:
From the linked NYT story:

In the past few days, Mr. Bush and Mike McConnell, director of national intelligence, have publicly called on Congress to make the change before its August recess, which could begin this weekend. Democrats appear to be worried that if they block such legislation, the White House will depict them as being weak on terrorism. ...

The administration says that digital technology and the globalization of the telecommunications industry have created a legal quandary for the intelligence community. Some purely international telephone calls are now routed through telephone switches inside the United States, which means such "transit traffic" can be subject to federal surveillance laws requiring search warrants for any government eavesdropping.

Under the program of wiretapping without warrants, which began soon after the Sept. 11 attacks, the N.S.A. eavesdropped on the transit traffic without seeking court approval. But in January, the administration placed the program back under the FISA law, which meant warrants were required for surveillance of the transit traffic.


While there is little controversy in either party about legislation targeted against this "transit traffic," White House talking points have breathlessly drummed the urgency of enacting this legislation now, before the August recess, because of the extreme threat posed by handling these intercepts under FISA.

Even this gives the lie to the credibility of poor Alberto Gonzales. He literally swore in Senate Judiciary Committee testimony Jan. 18, 2007, in explaining the announced termination of the TSP, that "the country will not be any less safe." Gonzales repeated that assertion in a PBS interview, as well.
8.1.2007 2:14pm
Crust (mail):
I agree with JaO, the supposed urgency is suspect in the light of previous administration comments.

And the White House's idea that the administration -- i.e. Gonzales -- oversee themselves on this (rather than the FISC) is totally unacceptable.

Even if the changes make sense on the merits (and it sounds like they may well), I don't think Congress should be consenting to changing FISA until the Administration recognizes FISA as legally binding on them, complies with the law and accounts for their past violations. Follow the law first, then we can talk about changing it.
8.1.2007 2:39pm
Mark Field (mail):

Even this gives the lie to the credibility of poor Alberto Gonzales. He literally swore in Senate Judiciary Committee testimony Jan. 18, 2007, in explaining the announced termination of the TSP, that "the country will not be any less safe." Gonzales repeated that assertion in a PBS interview, as well.


It seems odd that the Democrats are willing to amend FISA. On December 19, 2005, Attorney General Gonzales gave a press conference after the surveillance was revealed by the New York Times. He was asked, “ If FISA didn’t work, why didn’t you seek a new statute that allowed something like this legally?” He responded that they had discussed that with certain members of Congress and were advised, “that was not something we could likely get.” Cite. Makes you wonder what has changed.
8.1.2007 2:53pm
Kelvin McCabe:
Again, to make the same point raised earlier on the previous thread, if the U.S. can "eavesdrop" on international phone calls routed through the U.S. (as the example used was a call from London to Paris routed through U.S.) and we change the law to allow us access sans warrant, whats to prevent the U.K. or Canada or some other "ally" from doing the same to a New York to L.A. call routed through Montreal, London, or Berlin and then sharing (classified under the pretext of national security) the results with the U.S.? All without court orders in the respective countries since each government isnt technically listening in on its own citizens calls in its own territory/jurisdiction, and in any event, all countries' respective programs are highly classified.
8.1.2007 3:19pm
KeithK (mail):
If such a sharing agreement resulted in disruption of a terrorist plot against US interests then I'm all for it.

International communication is different from domestic. I want our government to be sniffing around the world looking for plots against us and following suspected enemies. Just like I wanted the government to be spying on the USSR back in the day.
8.1.2007 3:37pm
Mark Field (mail):

International communication is different from domestic.


I think you misread Kelvin's post. He was referring to a NY-LA call which, by the miracle of modern technology, gets routed through, say, Montreal (or, better yet, satellite). Technology creates the potential for arbitrary loopholes in the 4th A or statutory protections.


I want our government to be sniffing around the world looking for plots against us and following suspected enemies.


I'm pretty sure everybody wants this.
8.1.2007 4:27pm
Kelvin McCabe:
Agreed KeithK that a disrpution of a terror plot and the saving of lives is an admirable goal. That is not in dispute. The question is the allowable (under the constitution) methods employed.

Hypothetically, if all calls from new york city were routed through a Canadien server (not entirely that far fetched) and tapped (on the canadien side of the border) and the results shared with the u.s. gov.t presumably, not only would would-be terrorists get caught up, but also local drug dealers, tax evaders, corporate embezzlers, cheating husbands, the guy ordering pizza, etc..etc... the point being, once you open the spiget and it begins to flow, what incentive on earth would you have to then turn it off? And the NSA could very easily share its "intel" with the FBI, DEA, etc... once they have it (the conversation) and the phone number attached to it.

Under the 4th amendment, if Canada tapped into your call, but you were arrested here in the states, there normally would be no suppression remedy (that i am aware of), unless the canadien "cooperation" agreement (if it could be shown or even introduced into court, which would be doubtful with classified programs and states secrets) could be seen as some form of agency agreement, wherein a warrant would be required (that is, canada is seen as an agent or working for or on behalf of the u.s. law enforcement community). But say the DEA didnt get a warrant to bust the drug dealer based on the phone taps, but merely used the phone tap to then go surveil his house for a few weeks etc...and then arrest him or pull him over or seek a warrant. Again, once the intel is aquired, there is no telling how it could be used or by whom.

Are you okay with that Keith? What if every single call ever made in the us since 9/11 was subject to such international eavesdropping? Is there any limit to what is acceptable, so long as the gov.t claim's that the program has disrupted a potential terrorist plot or will in the future? In other words, how willing are you and how far are you willing to go to sell your right to liberty (liberty being a right of the people against the gov.t, that is, the right to be free from gov.t intrusion into your life) to the gov.t for the prospect of safety?

I for one do not like the idea or even the remotest of possibilities (which what i am discussing is) that our government could outsource the complete removal and undermining of the 4th amendment to an "ally" in the name of fighting a vague terrorist threat, especially when that ally is really only being a proxy for our own government and a loophole to do that which the supreme law of our land forbids. But i guess i am old fashioned like that.
8.1.2007 4:32pm
Just an Observer:
washingtonpost.com is reporting this afternoon that congressional Democrats are proposing something a lot more extensive than just monitoring foreign-to-foreign communications:

Congressional Democrats, under pressure from the Bush administration, today proposed a six-month compromise that would expand the government's authority to conduct electronic surveillance of overseas communications in search of terrorists.

The proposal, according to House and Senate Democrats, would permit a secret court to issue a single broad order approving eavesdropping of communications involving suspects overseas and other people, who may be in the United States. That order "need not be individualized," according to a Democratic aide.
8.1.2007 5:30pm
Crust (mail):
JaO, thanks for the update on what the Dems seem to be signing on to. I'm with Anonymous Liberal?:
Am I completely crazy to think that a necessary precondition to considering any amendment to FISA is a public assurance by the administration that it is not currently and will not in the future violate FISA?
8.1.2007 5:49pm
Just an Observer:
It is a little difficult to parse the Washington Post story about the compromise. I am unsure whether it is basically focused on foreign-to-foreign, with minimization protection for U.S. persons accidently "scooped up" in that net, or whether it actually would authorize warrantless surveillance of some foreign-to-domestic stuff.

The former scenario is less radical than the latter.

Clearly, things are moving fast. The story indicated that Pelosi, having met this morning with Bush, might press for a House vote on this as soon as tonight.
8.1.2007 6:14pm
Just an Observer:
Update: The Post seems to be backing off the part about a House vote as early as tonight. That speculative morsel disappeared from the washingtonpost.com story since I read it previously.
8.1.2007 6:19pm
Anderson (mail) (www):
Makes you wonder what has changed.

Chertoff's gut, I hear.

Seriously, if "the system is blinking red" again, then I can see the Dems' willingness to write a 6-month blank check. I would only hope that they're confirming the genuine nature of the threat with unofficial sources who are more reliable than Gonzales, Chertoff, Hayden, et al.
8.1.2007 7:04pm
Just an Observer:
Newsweek is reporting that a FISA court ruling "several months ago" forced the administration to seek new legislative authority.

Aug. 1, 2007 - A secret ruling by a federal judge has restricted the U.S. intelligence community's surveillance of suspected terrorists overseas and prompted the Bush administration's current push for "emergency" legislation to expand its wiretapping powers, according to a leading congressman and a legal source who has been briefed on the matter.

The order by a judge on the top-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court has never been publicly acknowledged by administration officials—and the details of it (including the identity of the judge who wrote it) remain highly classified. But the judge, in an order several months ago, apparently concluded that the administration had overstepped its legal authorities in conducting warrantless eavesdropping even under the scaled-back surveillance program that the White House first agreed to permit the FISA court to review earlier this year, said one lawyer who has been briefed on the order but who asked not to be publicly identified because of its sensitivity.

The first public reference to the order came obliquely this week from House Minority Leader John Boehner—one of a number of senior Republicans who have been leading the White House-backed campaign to persuade Congress to rush through an expanded eavesdropping measure before it leaves for August recess at the end of this week.

He and other GOP leaders have said that the country will be at a greater risk of a terrorist attack if Congress doesn't act immediately — and they have accused Democrats of "playing politics" by balking at some of the provisions the administration is seeking.

"There's been a ruling, over the last four or five months, that prohibits the ability of our intelligence services and our counterintelligence people from listening in to two terrorists in other parts of the world where the communication could come through the United States," Boehner said on an interview with Fox News anchor Neal Cavuto.
8.1.2007 10:12pm
Just an Observer:
That Washington Post story has evolved all day. (The link has not changed, but the underlying story has.)

It now looks like the primary emphasis of the Democratic bill, like the adminstration's own proposal, is really on foreign-to-domestic traffic. There is a provision explicitly authorizing surveillance of foreign-to-foreign communications, but that non-controversial provision is buried in the story.

Given the knowledge that the FISA court order announced in January as a replacement for the TSP apparently was rejected later by another FISA judge, it is easier to understand the motivation for the legislation. (It also renders inoperative my snarky comment above about Gonzales' comments in January. Sorry, Fredo.)

As for the merits of the competing legislative proposals, I still don't know enough about the details to form an opinion.
8.2.2007 1:06am
Kelvin McCabe:
So if the ruling of the FISA judge was handed down several months ago, why the sudden emergency?? Was it not important to have the powers sought in the new legislaion in May but is suddenly now is an emergency, even though congress is expected to return to session a month from now in early september(from what i read elsewhere)? That month really make a huge difference, considering several months have already passed since the FISC decision? Given the subject nature of the legslation, i dont know if writing it, passing it out to every congressman/senator and then having little to no time to debate it before voting on it is a good idea. In fact, i think its the dumbest thing ive heard since the rush to pass the patriot act. Which itself didnt need to be rushed. Can someone explain the rationale here to a skeptic?
8.2.2007 12:40pm