Disorder in the House:

Last night the U.S. House of Representatives unanimously agreed to the formation of a special committee to investigate alleged parliamentary shenanigans that may have altered the outcome of a vote, the Washington Post reports.

The move capped a remarkable day that started with Republicans marching out of the House in protest near midnight Thursday, was punctuated by partisan bickering, and ended with Democratic hopes for a final legislative rush fading. Even a temporary blackout of the House chamber's vote tally board led to suspicions and accusations of skullduggery.

While Democratic leaders hoped to leave for their August recess on a wave of legislative successes, the House instead slowed to an acrimonious crawl that threatened to stretch the legislative session into next week.

The agreement to form a special committee was extraordinary. Such powerful investigative committees are usually reserved for issues such as the Watergate scandal and the funneling of profits from Iranian arms sales to the Nicaraguan contras in the 1980s.

"I don't know when something like this has happened before," said House deputy historian Fred W. Beuttler. He called the decision "incredible."

House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) accepted GOP calls for an investigation. "I do not believe there was any wrongdoing by any member of the House. I do believe a mistake was made," he said. "And I regret it.

Politico.com has lots more here and here. Republicans are also distributing video that, they claim, supports allegations that the vote was "stolen."

Of course, when Republicans controlled the House, there were shenanigans as well. Most infamously, a vote was kept open so Tom Delay would twist arms to ensure a victory. As with earmarks, it seems the new boss is much like the old boss.

UPDATE: Congressional Quarterly has a particularly thorough account of the vote:

The floor confusion arose when, with the tally tied at 214-214, two politically vulnerable Democrats, Nick Lampson of Texas and Harry E. Mitchell of Arizona, went to the well of the chamber to switch their votes to “no.” The buddy system would prevent Democrats who voted “no” from being targeted as the deciding vote in future campaign ads. Moments later, three Cuban-American Republicans from south Florida, Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, Lincoln Diaz-Balart and Mario Diaz-Balart, moved to change their votes to “aye.”

The five vote switches were called out by the House reading clerk. The two Democratic changes put the tally at 212-216. Ros-Lehtinen’s switch made it 213-215. Lincoln Diaz-Balart evened it at 214-214, but a tie vote fails. As the reading clerk called out Mario Diaz-Balart’s new vote, the Speaker Pro Tempore, Rep. Michael R. McNulty, D-N.Y., banged the gavel, apparently unaware that the second Diaz-Balart’s vote had yet to be counted.

McNulty had his eyes on the electronic scoreboard, which still read 214-214. But almost as soon as the gavel came down, the scoreboard registered Mario Diaz-Balart’s vote, pushing the tally to 215-213. The scoreboard showed those numbers and the word “FINAL.”

Within a minute or so, a flurry of post-gavel vote switches by Reps. Zack Space of Ohio, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York and Jerry McNerney of California — resulted in an official outcome of 212-216. Boehner was observed switching his vote — a common way to preserve the right to seek reconsideration, and an aide confirmed that the tally board at that point should have read 211-217.

“Shame! Shame!” Republicans chanted across the aisle. Rep. Patrick T. McHenry, R-N.C., thumped the seat of a chair in rhythm with the chant. Rep. Steven C. LaTourette, R-Ohio, repeatedly covered his mouth with his hand, pretended to cough and bellowed a barnyard epithet.

McNulty, whom Democrats often tap to preside over contentious debates, could be heard on television insisting “I called it 214-214.”

Related Posts (on one page):

  1. Congressional Shenanigans:
  2. Disorder in the House:
Daniel Chapman (mail):
If it was an innocent mistake, back up and fix the vote. Didn't they already replay it on C-Span? Can anyone give some more details about what actually happened?
8.4.2007 11:46am
Old 33:
The big difference with this episode and the GOP-led House is that this leadership unanimously voted to appoint a committee with subpoena power to investigate the votes that night and report back. Tom DeLay would NEVER have allowed such an investigation, and indeed, shut down the investigation in the Ethics Committee into the Medicare Part D vote.
8.4.2007 12:24pm
Q the Enchanter (mail) (www):
"it seems the new boss is much like the old boss"

Yes, the old boss surely would have unanimously agreed to an investigative committee.
8.4.2007 12:24pm
Gaius Marius:
It is time to consider amending the U.S. Constitution for the elimination of Article I.
8.4.2007 12:26pm
Old33 (mail):
Speaking of "parliamentary shenanigans"...

Democrats appeared to have won the vote, but with the voting time apparently having expired, GOP leaders persuaded three Latino Republicans who had voted with the Democrats to change their votes. At the same time, Democrats say, five Democratic lawmakers who had voted with Republicans were scrambling to change their votes as well. With two of the GOP votes changed, Democrats gaveled the vote shut, 214 to 214, and declared that they had won. But the public tally showed that the Republicans had won, 215 to 213, just as the vote was declared for the Democrats. The official final tally was 216 to 212 in the Democrats' favor.

Looks like the GOP was trying to play a few games of their own, which were answered by Democratic games, which the voting system and/or the presiding officer didn't let play all the way out.
8.4.2007 12:28pm
PersonFromPorlock:
Agreed: why not redo the vote? All a special committee will do is give America's Jesters another chance to pummel each other with inflated goat bladders.
8.4.2007 12:37pm
Reg (mail):
Just another reason why nobody in Washington deserves to be taken seriously.
8.4.2007 12:48pm
Angus:
This story has no good guys, and a lot of people playing sneaky political games instead of doing their jobs. It appears as though the GOP planned in advance to have a certain number of its people vote "NO" with Democrats early on, then switch their votes at the last second to "YES" and try and trick their way into winning the vote.

At the same time, Democrats had some of their people vote "YES" with Republicans purely for political/electoral reasons, and then had them try and switch their votes to "NO" at the last second to counter the Republican switches. The controversy seems to be over who got their vote switch counted and who did not before the vote was gaveled closed.

Either way, the entire thing would have been avoided if members of both parties would cast their votes based on their own conscience rather than playing so many games and tricks. Appalling on both sides.

To their credit, Democratic leaders did offer to have an immediate re-vote, and Republicans objected and moved to adjourn instead. If everyone had voted their real convictions, it should come out exactly the same as it did 15 minutes before, shouldn't it?
8.4.2007 12:50pm
Anon Y. Mous:

Of course, when Republicans controlled the House, there were shenanigans as well. Most infamously, a vote was kept open so Tom Delay would twist arms to ensure a victory. As with earmarks, it seems the new boss is much like the old boss.
I'm not the House Parliamentarian or anything, but my understanding is that while keeping the vote open departed from tradition, it broke no rules.
Agreed: why not redo the vote?
If you mean to use the actual count of who voted which way when the voting was first closed, why yes, that does seem fair. If you mean have a revote, outside of the rules, well that's basically what they already did.
8.4.2007 12:53pm
Henri Le Compte (mail):
Ahh, but I think they've forgotten how Tom Delay ran around the House chamber with the top of a child's skull on his head, saying it was a "yarmulk, for all my Jeeewish friends." Amazing what the press forgets these days.
8.4.2007 12:55pm
The McGehee (mail) (www):

All a special committee will do is give America's Jesters another chance to pummel each other with inflated goat bladders.


Are you implying that's a bad thing?
8.4.2007 1:02pm
Smokey:
These shenanigans could be eliminated by the use of a secret ballot, and announcing the vote totals at one time with no running total, or with an alternate provision for a roll-call vote.

Allowing members to cast a vote based on their perception of whether the question will pass or fail does a real disservice to the citizens.
8.4.2007 1:14pm
pete (mail) (www):
"These shenanigans could be eliminated by the use of a secret ballot"

As long as the citizens get to see how people voted after the votes were counted that would be ok. But how are you possibly going to enforce a secret vote when everyone voting is in the same room with each other?
8.4.2007 1:19pm
neurodoc:
Should we be thankful that no one clubbed anybody into unconsciousness, as happened 150 years ago in the run up to the Civil War?
8.4.2007 1:37pm
Steve2:
Does it strike anyone else as perverse that votes aren't final once cast? That "last-minute vote-switching"... seems like a bad thing for the rules to allow.
8.4.2007 1:52pm
AP:
According to Parliamentary procedure, keeping the vote open is legal, albeit rarely used, while blatantly stealing the vote is not. That's the difference.

Imagine the uproar the media would have caused had a Republican majority pulled shenanigans like this. We'd be hearing about it all the way through the '08 election. The Democrats, however, get away with barely a peep. The MSM needs to be honest and just become a registered political party already.
8.4.2007 2:10pm
Ex parte McCardle:
I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that politics is actually going on in the US House of Representatives.
8.4.2007 2:22pm
David Sucher (mail) (www):
"Hoyer conceded that the gavel had fallen too quickly, but he said it had been an error. When he put the issue to a new vote, Republicans boycotted, demanding that their victorious tally stand."

The Republicans refused to go back and do a re-vote simply because they suspected they would lose.

Look, let's face it. People who are lead by GW Bush are simply not good for America.
8.4.2007 2:34pm
Josh E:
Sure, none of this would ever happen if people just voted their conscience, but this is politics, so that's not going to happen. People do favors for each other on some votes they don't care about so much expecting paybacks on others, vote for losing causes or against winning causes they may not agree with in order to score points/campaign money from various constituencies, etc.

So, given the reality of the process, I understand why Republicans wouldn't want a re-vote. Aside from the possibility that their victory on this might have been a fluke of timing, a re-vote would certainly fail to break for the Republicans. Why? Because after what happened, any democrats that voted with the Republicans would be giving the Democrat leadership a severe black eye. Do that, and you can kiss your earmarks, amendments, and overall agenda goodbye. Oh, and forget about DNC help on your re-election campaign.

That said, I think the Democrats admitting a mistake and accepting an investigation is good damage control. I doubt the Delay led house would ever have admitted such an error or allowed an open investigation of what happened. I don't think it will do any good, mind you. Nor am I completely sure what "good" in this case would be.

Josh
8.4.2007 2:53pm
Greedy Clerk (mail):
Hacktacular post there Adler!!!! Especially love the line you took from Instahack about new boss being like the old boss . . . err, except it's an outright lie.

Why don't you mention the fact that the vote you are referring to by the Republicans -- the Prescription Drug Giveaway to the Pharma companies -- has been repealed by the House Dems, but that the Republicans in the Senate are filibustering it.

You remember filibusters, don't you Adler??? You used to write so much about how bad they were, but now when the Republicans are filibsutering a measure that could literally save the US government billions and billions a year (repeal of the provision in the Px Drug Bill not allowing the government to negotiate with the drug companies on price), you have nothing to say about it. This isn't some little earmark, this is something that could save the US billions and billions of dollars -- more money than would be saved by any plan to privatize social security or other "conservative ideas." Funny how Instaclown and Adler have nothing to say about this.

Further, since Adler is such a proponent of the free market, you think he would be in favor of allowing the goverment to, you know, NEGOTIATE prices. But no. Nothing about this filibuster preventing it.

Again, hactacular, Adler.

Oh, I shouldn't criticize you, becuase you write for a serious magazine like the National Review, I forgot, my bad.
8.4.2007 3:27pm
Jonathan H. Adler (mail) (www):
Greedy Clerk --

If you're going to accuse me of an "outright lie" you should at least try to find something in my post that is inaccurate.

As for all the extraneous stuff you rant about, 1) my primary concern about the filibuster has always been about its use against nominations; I don't believe I've ever complained about its use against substantive legislation by either party (and I feared the so-called "nuclear option" could lead to the complete elimination of the filibuster), 2) I never supported the GOP prescription drug plan but did support the GOP mavericks who opposed it (and who Delay tried to strong-arm during that infamous vote); 3) repealing the prescription drug plan would be more "free market," but allowing de facto government price controls on pharmaceuticals through "negotiation" would not be.

Now that I've addressed your off-topic points, care to identify my purported "lie" or inaccuracy? Or do you just prefer to spew venom?

JHA
8.4.2007 3:39pm
Greedy Clerk (mail):
It's an outright lie to say that the "old boss is just like the new boss" -- the little things you are complaining about are nothign like what was going on in the House for the time the Republicans ruled it. Moreover, the minor "earmarks" you and Instahack complain about are nothign compared to the complete and utterly irresponsible Px drug benefit passed by the House using strong-arm tactics that would make Pelosi and co. look like pikers.

This "old boss is just like the new boss" and the "I never supported x &y" but support Republicans because hey, they are all the same. It's a way to have deniability for supporting the utter disaaster wreaked on this country for the time when Bush had a lapdog Congress that did nothing but run up the budget deficit to absurd levels. But I am sure they are just like Clinton to you -- because destroying the budget, politicizing the DOJ to unprecedented levels, blowing two wars, etc. is just as bad as getting a blow job to people like your eyes. I am sure you supported the impeachment of Clinton but when Bush and Co. do stuff 100's of times worse, you say zilch, except for something here and there with the little "old boss is just like new boss" scthick. It got old a long time ago. And people like me, who used to subscribe to views that were probably more in common with yours than Pelosi's, can see right through you. But in a few years, you will have your little deniablitty with posts like this to your friends in academia, and you will also be able to continue collecting wingnut welfare from the National Review and, hey, maybe you one day will get a job at a thinktank or something.
8.4.2007 4:34pm
DeezRightWingNutz:
Looks like he opted for venom spewing.
8.4.2007 4:57pm
Jonathan H. Adler (mail) (www):
Greedy Clerk --

You're still not being responsive. I wrote:
when Republicans controlled the House, there were shenanigans as well. Most infamously, a vote was kept open so Tom Delay would twist arms to ensure a victory. As with earmarks, it seems the new boss is much like the old boss.
In other words, in these two respects -- parliamentary shenanigans and earmarks -- the new Congress seems much like the old. You've still provided nothing -- nada, zilch -- to suggest this is not true, let alone an "outright lie" (i.e. a deliberate falsehood). You keep focusing on the fact that Republicans passed a bad prescription drug bill -- a bill that I did not support -- but so what? They also spent too much, passed stupid ag bills, passed a stupid energy bill -- all with the support of the Bush administration. Again, so what? It has nothing to do with this post.

Just because you think the prescription drug bill was worse than earmarks does not make talking about earmarks, and the failure of the Congressional leadership to make due on their promise to end the practice, hackery or an "outright lie." Nor does my purported failure to join the chorus condemning those things that you think are most important.

I don't always support Republicans -- either in the ballot box or in print -- and I care far more about the policy failures of both this and the prior administration than I do about either President's sexual habits -- but I still see no need to cover the waterfront with my occasional blogging. Also, FWIW, My gig with NRO (where I've criticized the administration on many issues) hardly pays enough to constitute "wingnut welfare" and I've done my time with think tanks already, so you'll have to find some other nefarious motivation to explain my failings -- but you still have offered nothing to justify your hyperventilation or substantiate your charge of an "outright lie."

JHA
8.4.2007 5:07pm
PersonFromPorlock:
Incidentally, with an approval rating of around thirteen percent (before!), is this officially a House of Ill Repute?
8.4.2007 5:17pm
Avatar (mail):
Just a case of the Democrats attempting to finesse the vote a little too closely - too many people voting "for" in order to have a vote on the record for campaign time, when "against" is their inclination and their party line. Goofy, sure, but not the end of the republic or anything.
8.4.2007 5:26pm
Dave Hardy (mail) (www):
It appears as though the GOP planned in advance to have a certain number of its people vote "NO" with Democrats early on, then switch their votes at the last second to "YES" and try and trick their way into winning the vote. At the same time, Democrats had some of their people vote "YES" with Republicans purely for political/electoral reasons, and then had them try and switch their votes to "NO" at the last second to counter the Republican switches.

Naw, I suspect something a little different (worse?) On highly contentious issues, the folks who favor your vote will figure they had it coming, and those you voted against will become your eternal enemies. So....

"Here are five of us. We will vote no UNLESS you come within five votes of winning, and then we will switch. If the measure fails, you will not hold it against us, because we were there if you needed us." That way, at least if it fails, the legislator pleases both sides, since he seems to oppose it but has placated its supporters, too. Alternately -- "you tell us if and when our vote is needed, but only do it if needed."

But when the vote is almost even, and sways back and forth, chaos ensues as both GOP and Dems are rushing up to switch votes in accord with the deals they made.

Here further confused by voting in blocs of 2-3 to avoid being named as the tie-breaker, and by a chair who is letting the vote run overtime and watching the vote count for an auspicious moment to bring the gavel down.
8.4.2007 6:07pm
calmom:
The Democrats know that voting to spend taxpayers money as giveaways to illegal aliens isn't popular even with their base. So they try to hide those votes and then lie in campaign commercials.
8.4.2007 6:20pm
Hewart:
Angus' comment, emphasized by others, seems the most telling:

To their credit, Democratic leaders did offer to have an immediate re-vote, and Republicans objected and moved to adjourn instead. If everyone had voted their real convictions, it should come out exactly the same as it did 15 minutes before, shouldn't it?

So, the Republicans really weren't interested in having this fixed, because they know they would have lost the vote, anyway. They're just using the fluke of timing as a way to try to make the House leadership look bad.

The vote-switching at the end is tedious, but it isn't really the issue. The issue is that the Dem leadership recognized the timing problem and offered to completely re-do the vote, but the Republicans, who know they lost the vote, refused and instead decided to try to turn it into a smear.

I think it takes a remarkable amount of willful obtuseness and cognitive dissonance to seriously suggest the Dems and the Repubs are ethically equivalent in this case. I certainly know which kind of treatment I'd rather receive.
8.4.2007 6:48pm
Steve P. (mail):
While the venom spewing is really rather engrossing, I thought I might point out a 'can't see the forest for the trees' moment.

Does anyone know what the vote was on?

I do, now, but it's really a sidenote to this politics^2 discussion. Go ahead and find out, but I bet most people won't — this is really more of a reason to hate the other side than anything substantive.

And, come on. A representative named LaTourette "bellowed a barnyard epithet." Not even one mention? You guys are depressing.
8.4.2007 6:55pm
John Rosenberg (mail) (www):
I think the procedural matter (stolen vote or honest mistake) is important, but as a political matter -- and all seem to agree that what was going on here was politics -- I suspect most voters may regard it as inside baseball. On the other hand, it's hard for me to see how the Democrats will be helped by this publicity over their opposition to a clear and firm ban on any funds or benefits provided in the agricultural bill going to illegal immigrants.
8.4.2007 7:26pm
Smokey:
David Sucher said:
''Look, let's face it. People who are lead by GW Bush are simply not good for America.''
May I respond? Thank you.

A Democrat senator... went too far in trying to get one of her bills through the lower house. She infamously pressed the "aye" button for Houston -- a Republican. Republicans were furious. source

She waited until the Republican senator had stepped away from his voting button, then surreptitiously snuck over and voted for him. But she was caught in the act.

So, Mr Sucher... care to recant?
8.4.2007 7:28pm
Houston Lawyer:
Shades of Al Gore in Florida. Let's not go with the actual vote, but with a later vote more to the Democrats' liking.

You don't get redos on votes. There is usually a chance to vote again later, but you have to live with the first vote, once it has been gaveled.
8.4.2007 7:59pm
orlando:
While the whole thing makes for eye-rolling disgust at both sides, I find the final graph of the article to be the most disturbing: “I called it 214-214.”

What a shockingly honest and revealing (if indirect and inadvertant) admission. Why not just call it 0 to 0, or Z to Z, or llama to llama? Why not do it ahead of time? Sheesh.
8.4.2007 8:04pm
randomdropby (mail):
Smokey,

Usually, when there is an article about national politics, and the procedural 'niceties' involved, it is best to cite to other national politics.

Not to local politics.

Not by using language (Democrat senator, lower house) that makes it appear to be Congress.

Also, when you refer to the 'Democrat Senator', approximately 25% of the country (last throes, all that) may continue to take you seriously. The rest? Not so much. For the purposes of civil discourse, I recommend the correct terminology, and not some unfamiliar talk radio ebonics.
8.4.2007 8:04pm
PJT:
AP - The mainstream media "barely made a peep" about this? Its the headline story on cnn.com, made the front page of the Post, and probably received similar coverage elsewhere. Please find another culprit at which to direct blame.
8.4.2007 8:40pm
ifoughtthelaw (mail) (www):
Without adopting Greedy Clerk's vitriol, I think a number of commenters have pointed out that your remark about the new leadership being "much like the old" is at least disingenuous, even if it's not an "outright lie." First, it wasn't just the new leadership involved in these shenanigans -- the Republican switcheroos were part of the hoopla here. Second, there are a number of meaningful distinctions, that other commenters have raised, between what happened here and what used to go on under Delay. Most significantly the fact that the Democratic leadership immediately agreed to an investigation.

You're basically making a broad-sided attack by using a very broad definition of the term "shenanigans." You do this all the time -- frame the issue at a sufficiently vague level of abstraction to make a targeted political point, leaving yourself enough room to backtrack and make it look like you're either attacking both sides or taking a neutral position when someone calls you out on specifics. It doesn't rise to the level of the usual NRO hackery, but it's a valid criticism.
8.4.2007 10:21pm
Smokey:
randomdropby-

My apologies, I assumed the article made that clear. My intent was to show that similar ethics permeate the Democratic Party regarding this issue. If Republicans do it [and I'm not a Republican], please cite.
8.4.2007 10:45pm
Mike S.:
Actually, the practice of allowing members to vote one way and then switch sides if their vote will make a difference is, to my mind, fundamentally corrosive to a democracy. It is an attempt to conceal from the voters the representatives' true feelings. The representatives of both parties who switched, and the leaders who supported them can only be called dishonest. Every citizen in their districts should vote against them at the next election.

Shenanigans with the gavel are strictly secondary.
8.4.2007 11:21pm
Baseballhead (mail):
Houston Lawyer wrote:
Let's not go with the actual vote, but with a later vote more to the Democrats' liking.

You don't get redos on votes. There is usually a chance to vote again later, but you have to live with the first vote, once it has been gaveled.
It's fun to see how concerned Republicans are about voter fraud when they lose, and how accepting they are about possibly fraudulent results when they win.
8.4.2007 11:48pm
David M. Nieporent (www):
This isn't some little earmark, this is something that could save the US billions and billions of dollars -- more money than would be saved by any plan to privatize social security or other "conservative ideas."
Actually, it wouldn't save the US anything; Democrats already plan to spend the money.

Further, since Adler is such a proponent of the free market, you think he would be in favor of allowing the goverment to, you know, NEGOTIATE prices. But no. Nothing about this filibuster preventing it.
There is nothing "free market" about the government taking over 15% of the economy and then "negotiating" prices with those who supply it. "Negotiate" here just means implementing price controls.
8.5.2007 12:42am
Smokey:
Baseballhead-
It's fun to see how concerned Republicans are about voter fraud when they lose, and how accepting they are about possibly fraudulent results when they win.
Please. That statement is the clearest case projection I've seen in a long time.

Democrats are falling all over themselves registering illegal aliens; aiding, abetting and participating in the most massive voter fraud in the history of this country. They are salivating at the prospect of millions illegals voting in the next election.

It should be a strict requirement that in order to register to vote, prospective voters must prove beyond doubt that they are U.S. citizens.

Try getting that requirement past the Democrat Party.
8.5.2007 1:10am
Kazinski:
Switching votes isn't any part of the issue here, because it is part of the established rules as set by the house. Tom Delay's extension of the Medicare vote isn't an issue either, because it wasn't against the rules (although it was against normal procedure). Waiting for a favorable total, then gaveling the vote closed, and then disallowing a legitmately cast vote to preserve the win, is against house rules. If the votes don't matter anymore then why have them?

There is a reason why Congress is sitting at an approval level half that of GW Bush. Bush is an unpopular president, but this is an spectacularly unpopular congress, and this isn't going to help. If the Democratic congress keeps this up, it may start to jeopardize the chances of the Democratic presidential candidates to take the White House in 2008.
8.5.2007 5:58am
Bruce Hayden (mail) (www):
There is a reason why Congress is sitting at an approval level half that of GW Bush. Bush is an unpopular president, but this is an spectacularly unpopular congress, and this isn't going to help. If the Democratic congress keeps this up, it may start to jeopardize the chances of the Democratic presidential candidates to take the White House in 2008.
As someone pointed out a couple of days ago, as a result of this, that level of Congressional approval may become a ceiling, and not a floor.

Ignoring the subject matter of the bill, I would suggest that this ultimately rebounds to the disadvantage of the Democrats in the House more than the Republicans. Which is why the investigation is very astute politics. This just smelled bad from the Democrats who came back into control of the House partially on a platform of cleaning up corruption.

On the other hand, if the Democratic leadership in the House had not launched the investigation so quickly, it might have rebounded to the Republicans' favor, esp. given the subject matter of the amendment. The Republican shenanigans here did two things - made it look like the Democrats were using their majority to cheat (regardless of merit), and it highlighted that the issue was them refusing to cut off illegal aliens from government benefits. But at least the former is effectively countered by the investigation.
8.5.2007 11:44am
Smokey:
''Does anyone know what the vote was on?''
Sure. The vote was to shovel more taxpayer money into the pockets of citizens of a foreign country who are here illegally.
8.5.2007 3:55pm