The Volokh Conspiracy

Drink with the Kids?

In yesterday's W$J, psychologist Stanton Peele makes the case for allowing minors to drink alcohol with their parents. According to Peele, allowing children to drink alcohol in the home with their families reduces the likelihood of binge drinking and related problems. On the other hand, allowing minors to attend unchaperoned parties may be setting them up to be binge drinkers.

n societies where children drink with their parents, this typically means giving a kid a small amount of wine or other alcohol, often watered down on special occasions or a family dinner. Many European countries also lower the drinking age for children when they are accompanied by parents. In the United Kingdom, for example, the legal age is 18, but for a family at a restaurant it is 16. In France and Italy, where the legal age is 16, there is no age limit for children drinking with parents.

But what might all of this mean for teen drinking problems in America?

Several studies have shown that the younger kids are when they start to drink, the more likely they are to develop severe drinking problems. But the kind of drinking these studies mean -- drinking in the woods to get bombed or at unattended homes -- is particularly high risk.

Research published in the Journal of Adolescent Health in 2004 found that adolescents whose parents permitted them to attend unchaperoned parties where drinking occurred had twice the average binge-drinking rate. But the study also had another, more arresting conclusion: Children whose parents introduced drinking to the children at home were one-third as likely to binge.

"It appears that parents who model responsible drinking behaviors have the potential to teach their children the same," noted Kristie Foley, the principal author of the study. While the phrasing was cautious, the implication of the study's finding needs to be highlighted: Parents who do not introduce children to alcohol in a home setting might be setting them up to become binge drinkers later on. You will not likely hear this at your school's parent drug- and alcohol-awareness nights.

Sarah (mail) (www):
Sorry, but isn't this sort of self-evident? Peer modeling usually creates bad habits, responsible parental modeling creates good habits -- I feel like every PSA ever made somehow made this same point. Our drinking laws make no sense even to a non-drinking Mormon like me.
9.1.2007 11:11am
Shane (mail):
This is already explicitly allowed in Texas, which has fairly conservative alcohol laws. I would imagine that this is common in other states as well. Adults are allowed to purchase alcohol for their children, and the children are allowed to possess and consume alcohol under the direct supervision of their parents.

When I was a waiter in Texas I was instructed to check for ID to confirm that a parent/child relationship existed (which made for a de facto minimum age of 16 to consume alcohol with parents present), and to remove the alcohol from the minor's possession when the parent was not immediately present, when the parent went to the bathroom or left for any other reason.
9.1.2007 11:30am
Strick:
But there's a huge difference between allowing your own children to drink supervised in your own home and allowing unrelated under-aged teens have access to alcohol in your home while you're there. Particularly teens who intend to drive afterward.
9.1.2007 11:46am
pedro (mail):
I drank my first sip of wine on New Year's eve when I was seven. Thereafter, I drank a little bit of wine in the rare occasions in which my parents did. I do remember that, when I was twelve, my father took me and my little brother to Epcott Center, and for lunch he ordered a couple of glasses of wine, one for him and one for me. Unsurprisingly, this struck our American waiter as utterly unacceptable. (His disapproval, in turn, struck my father as quite puritanical and annoying: ah! cultural differences!)

And no, I've never one to have alcohol regularly, let alone a binge drinker.
9.1.2007 12:25pm
dearieme:
Shandy. Introduce your bairns to beer with shandy.
9.1.2007 12:58pm
ejo:
of course and left unsaid, kids also learn about irresponsible drinking from their families as well. how many alcoholic families were included in the study. I have been around more than a few that passed that happy condition down the family tree.
9.1.2007 1:16pm
amper:
Why is it that so many people in this world get paid to perform studies that inevitably produce nothing more than what common sense already requires?

Here's another premise I challenge any reseracher to disprove:

Families who introduce their children to the concepts of weapons responsibility at a young age are less likely to produce adults who disregard weapons responsibility.
9.1.2007 1:18pm
Stash:
In my family we kids always got a little bit of wine, a sip of beer, and were allowed to taste adults' drinks. No adult ever drank to excess in our presence. Drinking was always in the context of a special dinner, entertaining or an expensive restaurant. Wine, sherry and brandy were important ingredients for cooking and a complement to fine foods and desserts. A mixed drink, a fine scotch--these were the acquired tastes of a sophisticated person. This resulted in me being so naive that I came back from my first semester of college with the revelation: many people drink for the effect, not the taste! Sure I'd seen it on TV and in the movies, but drinking in order to get drunk was in the same category as gunfights and bank robberies. It was not part of a "normal" life. Hey, of course I drank to excess in college, but getting sick a couple times pushes one to be careful. I am a great believer in demystifying what is often "forbidden" from immoral to just stupid. There is a great attraction for a teen to the forbidden or being a transgressor or a rebel, but nobody wants to be an idiot. This is where I think the campaign against smoking has gone wrong (it's stupid, not immoral), and was the source our very foolish experiment with alcohol prohibition. Don't get me started on the war on drugs.
9.1.2007 1:24pm
JunkYardLawDog (mail):
In Texas in the 80's and I think its still the law there. A restaurant can legally serve Alcoholic beverages to a minor if it is ordered for the minor by the minor's parents or guardian.

Most restaurants were unaware this was legal.

Says the "Dog"
9.1.2007 1:26pm
Bruce Hayden (mail) (www):
On the one hand, I would appreciate the chance to teach my offspring to drink responsibility before going off to college (or, horror upon horrors, in high school). Said offspring have never seen me drink more than two beers or a glass and a half of wine in one evening, so I am not worried about giving the wrong message.

On the other hand, I do know plenty of parents who over drink, and the kids see them do it. Not surprisingly, that is the environment where the kids are also likely to end up as alcoholics. Indeed, I have a memory of one parent giving me a martini when I was around 18 or 19. It was horrid. So, when I threw out half of it, he refilled my glass. No surprise, at least two of his offspring have serious drinking problems, 35 years later.
9.1.2007 1:28pm
James in AZ:
Recent work published by the Society of Neuroscience has shown that alcohol can cause severe damage to adolescent brains. I think that this presents a compelling reason to put a limit on the amount of alcohol consumed by children.

Various neuroscience studies have raised a number of interesting questions that relate to law. For example, some work published in Nature showed that the average brain does not mature until age 25. Furthermore, the final part of the brain to mature is the part that deals with impulse control and decision making.
9.1.2007 1:31pm
BruceM (mail) (www):
We don't solve our problems here in America by increasing freedoms and liberties. Always the opposite. The public is too dumb to understand how legalizing something reduces negative externalities of prohibition, while lawmakers want to take away our rights to "protect us" from ourselves... Americans insist on their government taking away their freedoms.... for the children.
9.1.2007 1:44pm
Rich B. (mail):
My girls have a glass of wine every Friday night with the family. It never even occurred to me that I might be breaking a law. Even if it had occurred to me, I would have assumed that the law would never be enforced.

Is there a family in America who would allow their kids to have a drink with them at dinner, but don't because they believe it is illegal?
9.1.2007 1:53pm
Jam:
Stash: Your post is similar to my home.

I do not allow grant the glass of wine in public, not because it is illegal, but because I do no want the hassle in case it bacame an issue with busybodies.

Jam from Houston, Texas
9.1.2007 2:05pm
spider:
Amper: Um, how about "Families that don't introduce their children to guns are likely to produce adults who don't touch guns, and thus have very little risk of anything bad happening with a gun."

Your analogy is not very good, because guns do not have the same pervasive presence in daily social life as alcohol does. Perhaps I am begging the question, by blithely accepting that alcohol belongs in civilized life while guns do not [I am biased in that personally I don't drink or use guns, so I wouldn't mind if both disappeared from regular life!] but I think that's a good description of the challenges that the average kid is likely to face.
9.1.2007 2:28pm
David Chesler (mail) (www):
At least one restaurant here won't serve O'Douls (non-alcoholic beer) to minors even when it is the parent who orders it. The waitress claimed it was an ABCC rule -- I haven't checked it out. (Of course another waitress said food service rules require the burgers for minors to be well done; it's pretty hard to get glass, instead of plastic, lenses for children here either.)
9.1.2007 4:00pm
whit:
it's already legal in most states (WA state comes to mind) for a parent to provide alcohol to their own minor children.

this is (and should be) a parental right. unfortunately, many nanny state leftists want to strip parental rights, but that's another story.

i have told parents numerous times that it's perfectly legal (when they had no idea) but it is not legal to allow OTHER children (not your own) to drink in your house.

rcw 66.44.270
9.1.2007 4:11pm
whit:
i should rephrase. i know it is legal in MANY states. i am uncertain if MOST states allow parents to serve their minor children liquor
9.1.2007 4:12pm
amper:
Spider:

A gun is tool, nothing more. Granted, it's a tool designed to kill things, but one can with very little imagination come up with other means of making "bad things happen" to other people, or even oneself.

However, one thing a gun forces a person to do is to consider the immediateand personal consequences of his actions in a way that, say a 4000-lb. automobile, never seems to effectuate (assuming of course, that we're talking about a fairly conscientious person in the first place).

There is a disconnect in this country between the actions of the voters, who are essentially wielding deadly power, and the feeling of responsibility that should accompany that power because the results are inevitably so external to the voter that the effects of the results are never felt directly.

Other than that, firearms are so prevalent in our society that I really don't think that you can characterize them as not having a pervasive presence in our lives, or even as having much less of a presence than alcohol.
9.1.2007 4:21pm
Henry Schaffer (mail):
I had my first drink of wine when my age was eight. I'm referring to eight days old, that is. I doubt that I'm the only one on this list. I grew up in a family which had various alcoholic beverages on our pantry shelves.

I've always felt that demystifying alcohol (or guns) decreases the allure.

Teaching at a university in the South, it seemed to me (personal observation, not scientific study) that the worst drinking abuses (now called binge drinking) were by students who had no history of responsible drinking and went wild when they were away from parental oversight.
9.1.2007 5:51pm
Elais:

this is (and should be) a parental right. unfortunately, many nanny state leftists want to strip parental rights, but that's another story.



whit, I didn't realize righties were such loose people with regards to alcohol if you only blame 'lefties' for stripping away parental rights.
9.1.2007 5:53pm
John Neff (mail):
In Iowa the legal age to drink age applies in public places and in private places where the parent or guardian is not present. the latter is effectively unenforceable unless the police are able to enter to deal with a disturbance.

My understanding is that a parent or guardian cannot purchase alcohol to be consumed by an underage child in a public place but they can serve them alcohol in a private place. We had a case recently where the judge ruled that a corridor in an apartment building was a public place.
9.1.2007 6:18pm
Brooks Lyman (mail):
Children ought to at least be educated to understand - really understand, not just hear the word "NO!" - about drink, drugs, guns, automobiles and any number of other things that are common in our society. Thus, kids ought to learn something about gun safety (not necessarily marksmanship), safe driving, the effects of alcohol and drugs and why we should not abuse them, the correct manner of handling any number of common dangerouse tools, from axes to lawnmowers, etc. (along with not accepting rides from strangers and crossing the street if it seems that the people coming down your sidewalk toward are gang members who might mug you, etc, etc.)

I don't know whether life is more or less complex than in the "good old days," but for sure it is complex. Our schools and our parents and other mentors may (or will, particularly in the typical public school today on the subject of gun safety!) not be able to teach us all these things, or at least, not by experience, but the more, the better.

Certainly, if one learns a bit about gun safety, moderate drinking and safe driving, some of the others, such as drugs and lawnmowers and power tools, will be a bit more obvious when and if the occasion arises. Unfortunately, some parents who grew up in the drug culture - and may still be smoking a little pot or snorting a little coke - don't seem to see any problem with their children doing what they did when they were in school. Considering the deleterious and insidious effects of drugs on such things as academic performance, one is hesitant to introduce one's kids to them "in moderation." In addition, while alcohol consumption by minors, particularly at home under parental supervision, may be a legal gray area, I don't think that any such exists for drugs, even marijauna....
9.1.2007 6:25pm
whit:
"In addition, while alcohol consumption by minors, particularly at home under parental supervision, may be a legal gray area,"

i cited a specific law. in many jurisdictions, it is hardly gray. it is specifically authorized under the law
9.1.2007 7:09pm
FantasiaWHT:
Good chart of location &familial exceptions to drinking-age laws in the US:

Map
9.1.2007 7:26pm
bbeeman (mail):
James,

The study to which you link doesn't give the hard data behind the various studies, and I'm skeptical that it really supports what you suggest. These meta-studies don't really say much except to support their author's biases. The studies are of rats, or look at heavy drinking, not what we are discussing here.

I'm of the school of thought that says that drinking should be introduced in the family setting...I was, and my kids were, and it worked like a charm. Seems to me that on the whole families should decide these things, not bureaucrats and pressure groups.
9.1.2007 8:13pm
Enoch:
Recent work published by the Society of Neuroscience has shown that alcohol can cause severe damage to adolescent brains. I think that this presents a compelling reason to put a limit on the amount of alcohol consumed by children.

I pity all the French and Italian teens with their severely damaged brains... their learning and memory skills were irreperably harmed!
9.1.2007 10:30pm
Richard A. (mail):
Stan Peele is right on the money here. I know him well and respect his research in this area. As for James in Arizona, what caused the brain damage that leads him to accept such nonsense as science? Intelligent people read the original studies. They don't read propaganda that cites alleged studies.
9.2.2007 12:17am
John Neff (mail):
My parents did not want me to have anything to do with firearms. Fortunately I was taught how to handle firearms safely by the father of a friend. I really appreciated his doing that and I had both of my sons take a firearms safety class when the were in grade school.

On the other hand it never occurred to me to teach my sons about the proper use of alcohol. Since then I have realized that selective prohibition has not worked any better than general prohibition. What we have now is massive noncompliance with the legal age to drink law where a very high percentage of the 17 to 20 year age group habitually violate the law.

If a person in that age range is killed by alcohol the most frequent cause of death is an accident caused by a drunk driver not by an overdose. A drunk with a gun is another cause of death but at a much lower rate.

Alcohol related traffic deaths steadily declined for a number of years and I have not examined the most recent data but my impression is the rate of decline has slowed. I doubt there is a single factor responsible for the decline because cars are safer so there are fewer fatalities and the police are much better at spotting drunk divers and preventing them from causing an accident are factors that should be considered. In some states the bars can get reduced liability insurance rates if they train their staff in how to prevent drunks from driving and that is another factor. Education programs at the high school and college level do not seem to be very effective. It may be that education in the home is more effective because the children are younger.

When I was a kid there was no sex education and my mother was a nurse and she taught my sister and I about sex. I would have gladly skipped the part about abortion but we learned about that even though we did not want to. I was appalled about the hogwash my friends thought was true about sex.

I wonder if kids today have a lot wrong information about alcohol. Scaring them does not work.
9.2.2007 10:46am
Toby:
Just ask any college town cop about the two waves of drunk driving since Liddy Dole did her thing with federal highway funds.

1) Mid-Evening, when College Kids, having torped a twelvepack with their roomie before going to the party they may not drink at go out to the social scene

2) Late at night (traditional version)

The traditional version (2) wraps the DUI driver around the tree. The new version (1) wraps the DUI driver around the family mini-van going home from Friday night pizza.
9.2.2007 5:21pm
Guest8675309:
Tangentially-related law hypo that has confounded me - a minor accompanies a group of individuals over the age of 21 to a restaurant. These over-21 individuals order alcohol with their meal, but the minor does not. At no point is the minor served alcohol by the waiter, and at no point does he possess or consume the alcohol that was ordered by the individuals over 21. At the end of the meal, the minor pays for the entire bill - which includes the alcoholic beverages - and the waiter accepts the payment. Has the minor illegally purchased alcohol? Has the restaurant illegally furnished alcohol to a minor? The jurisdiction is New York, although that's not important to me if there is a general answer.
9.3.2007 3:02am
mtl (mail):
A free link to the same article:

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110010555
9.4.2007 10:27am
Hans Bader (mail):
I don't think it should be illegal for parents to give their kids small amounts of wine. It may be a way to model responsible drinking.

But beware of the dangers of our litigatious society, in which half of all couples end up getting a divorce.

Even if it's legal to give your kid booze, if you end up in divorce court some day, your ex may claim you gave the kid booze, distort the context in which it occurred, and argue that that weighs in favor of your ex -- not you -- getting custody of the kids.

(Depicting you as an avid supporter of child drinking may also be used to make you look like a drunk, to help support false claims of domestic violence on your part -- virtually all requests for domestic violence restraining orders are granted, even when based on nothing more than a bare allegation lacking specific details ("I am in fear" is a common boilerplate allegation in a petition for a domestic violence restraining order, which is often granted despite lacking any specific allegation of assault or battery)).

If my wife wants to give our daughter a little bit of wine when she's a teenager, I likely won't object, but I don't plan to be the one doing it.

(Note: I am not divorced, and have never been in a family court proceeding or criminal proceeding of any kind).
9.4.2007 10:58am