Did the Patriots Cheat Last Sunday?
ESPN's Chris Mortensen is reporting that NFL officials have concluded that the New england Patriots cheated in their season-opening victory over the New York Jets. According to the report, the Patriots used a video camera to tape the Jets' defensive play-calling signals. Using video cameras to record the plays themselves is okay under NFL rules, but taping the oppositions play callng is a big no-no. If this report is accurate, the Patriots could face a heavy sanction from the league, such as losing one or more picks in next year's draft.
"Although this is embarrassing, you can't take away what this franchise can do. They may have the best team in football. Robert Kraft is one of the league's best owners. The team has three Super Bowl rings and a great chance to get a fourth. Other great organizations have paid penalties for violating league rules. The Broncos lost a draft choice for violating the salary cap with John Elway. The Steelers once had to forfeit a third-round draft choice for working out in shoulder pads in the offseason. The Patriots may lose a draft choice or two. And whether or not the Patriots videotaped the Jets' defensive signals, Belichick won't be any less of a coach."
Though it does seem like the only rule of the NFL is that the commissioner makes all the rules.
This sort of thing is a part of sports, and instead of punishing the Pats, why not let it happen and force teams to enact countermeasures (including ways to disguise play calls). As usual, the NFL is micromanaging.
In any event, the NFL missed its chance to crack down on REAL cheating by the Pats when it allowed that terrible "tuck rule" call against Oakland to stand.
In what sense could an arguably bad call by the refs be considered "REAL cheating" by the Patriots, or any other sort of cheating, for that matter?
Thank you, Eric Mangini.
As for the taping: It's against the rules. They were caught in Green Bay doing the same thing. The Patriots and Belichek have been VERY fast and loose with following the rules on reporting player injuries.
Also, there are questions of whether he used more radio channels than were allowed during the game. A lot of the services that are provied by the home team are specified, and must be equal. Visitors are not free to add to them, nor are Home teams free to add or remove them. This is a competetive balance issue, and has been the case for many many years (from phone lines, to heaters, to the head sets...in recent years due to tech problems for one team, the other team has had to givbe up head sets or phones for part or all the game...)
And since Goodell is trying to reclaim a sense of law and order around the league (recovering from the Cincin-Attica Bengals, Pacman Jones, Michael Vick, Ricky WIlliams, Shawn Merriman and others), it is pretty clear he will pound organizational violations as well.
I think that having Shawn Merriman on steroids, or Rodney Harrison on HGH, probably makes a bigger difference in terms of winning and losing than videotaping signs from the sidelines (as opposed to videotaping them from the stands [legal] or writing them down from the sidelines [legal]).
Because that would imply the game is really about sportsmanship, not money.
Are people really suggesting the Patriots forfeit a game because they used a video camera instead of a pen and paper?
And did the Patriots cheat in the game against the Jets (relay the signals to the players on the field)? Or did they record the signals so they can cheat in the next game against the Jets (first they have to figure out how to decode the signals). I am skeptical this had any effect whatsoever on the game.
But I really don't see how taking away draft picks is an effective punishment or deterrent, if you buy the idea that this actually helps win a game, which the NFL certainly does. Teams mortgage their future to win now all the time. How is this different?
The European version of sports is not much better. Most of the excitement in a soccer game comes from players pretending to be fouled.
I've notices in baseball that all conversations are behind a glove. Sign stealing is old hat. Just make the signs more difficult to read.
And the difference between the videocamera and pencil and paper....is that one is against the rules and teams had been repeatedly warned that it was against the rules....and Belichick's own team had been suspected of doing this and warned (at least according to reports.) Look, I've got nothing against the Pats. Always kind of liked them. But this seems pretty sleazy to me.
I agree that is against the rules. I just question the severity of the violation. A penalty of some kind is warranted but I think people are over blowing this.
>But this seems pretty sleazy to me.
What makes it sleazy? Using the video camera instead of pen and paper or the fact that they did it from the sidelines instead of the stands? Do you think the Jets and every other team doesn't do this without video cameras?
Is it sleazy every time a player is tackled and purposely reaches out to put the football an extra yard down field trying to get an extra foot or two from the referee?
It turns out that my skepticism may be misplaced. First, videotaping the signals would allow N.E.'s staff to compare a particular hand signal to a particular defensive call, especially if that hand signal was repeated later. The team's staff could compare the defense's pre-signal alignment to both its post-signal alignment and the action taken after the snap to detrmine whether a particular signal meant, for instance, how a defensive lineman was supposed to rush on that particular play. It seems to me that this kind of comparison would be MUCH harder to do in the absence of video or photographs.
Second, if the offense knows what the defense is going to do, then it is much easier for the offense to function effectively. If, for instane, the offense knows for a fact that a linebacker is going to blitz before it snaps the ball, then it will probably have more success with the play.
If the Patriots stole signals, then it probably had some affect on the outcome of the game. Since N.E. had apparently done this before, it is understandable why the NFL may impose some sort of penalty on the organization.
Since all the consequences of individual acts of cheating may never be known, and it's probably true that cheaters don't get caught every single time they cheat, I think the penalty should be severe when they are.
Because when the Jets were illegally filming the Pats, they noticed the Pats were illegally filming them. So the Jets presented the illegal film of the illegal filming, but they got immunity for providing evidence of illegal filming, but only on the condition that the evidence of the illegal filming, which itself was illegal, not be disclosed or admitted to as illegal. The result of which is the Jets are still horrible and the Pats will still be in the post-season.
It'll be interesting to see if this issue is brought up at the hearings of the new Attorney General. Since Senator Leahy is from New England I'm guessing it will be pursued aggressively.
I heard on a Boston TV sports report that Mangini recognized the photographer in the coaches' box that he himself had used to videotape opponents' signals when he was defensive coordinator for the Pats.
It's a real big deal. If I know you're playing cover two, I'm sending my tightend on a seam and picking you apart. If I know the blitz is coming from the left, I audible on the line to run right. Information like this can turn a mediocre team into a pretty good one.
That was my point. Of course they got caught when they were playing the Jets - Mangini knows all Belicheck's tricks.
In fact, if Mangini knew what was going on, he might consider not saying anything and then crossing the Pats up at crucial times.
Suppose they took away all the Patriots' draft picks for the next 3 years.
But then I remembered my broader concern at why this particular form of 18th Century hiring fair is allowed and protected in 21st century USA: could one of the lawyers on this blog help me to bury the persistent image of the marketing of imported African labour before the civil war (arguably a more legal market in that the purchasers were at least competing with each other)? And don't reply that it's enough that all the prospective picks are not African-American: it's not the racial overtones that worry me as much as the rights of the players at the hiring fair.
I thought our preColumbian sports might be better, but I find "In 1790, the Choctaw and the Creek used a lacrosse game to settle a border dispute, but a controversial refereeing call sparked a deadly battle."
A soccer game can certainly be thrown by a bad call stimulated by an acting job. But Houston, seriously, baseball, football, and hoop have a ton of rules. Unitiated persons can't follow the game. Compliance with the rules is a rich subject for fans to debate. And appeals of calls to the video, or to higher officials, is all part of the game. It's just characteristically American for it to be so. IMO
Not indefinite, just until he can prove he is NOT a member of al-Qaeda. After all, this is America.
Holding, grabbing a face mask, late hits, these things are not cheating. They are things that occur during the natural flow of the game and are penalized when they occur (often anyway). Using off-field personnel to steal signs is an entirely different category of offense.
If a player sits on the sidelines and studies the opposing coach to figure out the signs that's part of the game. Just like a baserunner stealing the catcher's signs. Having someone videotape the signs for later study in detail is no part of the game.
Forfeits or replay is probably not feasible or reasonable. But suspending Belichick would seem to be appropriate (as well as others in the organization who it could be proved were involved).
Full disclosure: I am a long time Jets fan. (Yes, I hang my head in shame.)
2. I am serious, however, that stealing signs are part of the game. Smart teams can deal with this, by using complicated signs, changing them, calling more audibles, etc. Why reward teams that aren't able to make adjustments by punishing teams that use inventive methods to steal signs?
But then I remembered my broader concern at why this particular form of 18th Century hiring fair is allowed and protected in 21st century USA: could one of the lawyers on this blog help me to bury the persistent image of the marketing of imported African labour before the civil war
Aside from the fact that professional athletes drafted by US sports leagues earn multimillion dollar salaries, there is another even more important difference:
Getting drafted by a particular team does not mean that you have to go to work for them. It just means that you have to work for that team if you want to play in that particular league. The player remains free to accept a contract from a different league in the same sport (e.g. - basketball players who sign up to play in European leagues), or to work in another industry entirely. The NFL and other sports leagues are simply individual firms competing in a larger labor market. The NFL offering a draftee a deal under which he has to play for a specific team if he accepts is not fundamentally different than McDonald's offering a restaurant manager a job conditional on his willingness to operate a franchise in Cleveland. Of course the NFL's offer is much more attractive than McDonalds' but that does not make it somehow more coercive.
1.) These motha
fuckers are lookin fo bitches2.) Cant we all just get along?
kldasdfuckersNick
I don't think it's that big a deal, since, as commenters have said above, teams can (and do) change their signals all the time, both within game and game to game. Especially since it has been rumored the Patriots have done this for years. (Hmm...even when Mangini worked for them!)
Having said that, I would have no problem with Belichick being suspended for 4 games. I even would think it would be kind of cool if Bob Kraft stood up and said "We won't stand for this in my organization. I have terminated Bill Belichick's contract as of today."
Don't tease.
Why indeed. Why did Napoleon invade Russia? Why did Nixon authorize bugging the Democrats at Watergate? Neither were even remotely needed. Arrogance and greed at work here.
I prefer to wait until all the evidence is in before I make any decision about guilt.
LT should learn to shut his mouth and not act like a spoiled brat. The reason that San Diego lost last year was that they choked, nothing else.. And please tell me that LT never celebarted a TD or a win. It does not matter where you celebrate, it is still celebration...LT hates to lose and I understand that but grow up LT and shut up.
Finally, the rest of the coaches and players just need to quit complaining, especially that imature, unsofisticated, disloyal traitor Eric Manginni. The Jets management get what they deserve for hiring someone with such an incomplete resume and experience. They will be lucky to win 4 games this year even if they were allowed to video tape. They would not know what to do with it.
This is nothing more than the I hate the Yankee syndrone. Some people, especially the ESPN commentaters can not accept the fact that success comes from rains, talent, bexecution, desire and luck. All is needed.
Finally, the rest of the coaches and players just need to quit complaining, especially that imature, unsofisticated, disloyal traitor Eric Manginni
are you kidding me you fool. Now i have absolutley know that you know NOTHING. i was kinda agreeing with you in some aspects but now i know ur full of shit buddy. you still actually have a lil brown piece on the corner of your lip of how much shit you just said. LMAO the jets will be lucky to win 4 games this season cause of mangini?? rofl. he is the sole reason they did ok last season with NOTHING, not like they have much now but he made the jets 10 times better in his FIRST season than they have been since herman edwards bought the to the playoffs with curtis martin running for them. JETS HAD NOTHING and they still made something of their season. So... you keep crying sour grapes when mangini is one day declared one of the best coaches in football. his first season with a terrible team and he does that with them, i mean be real you fool.
And for you "jetsfan"
The tail of the tape will be how well the Pats do against the highly motivated Chargers. Whoever wins on an even field will be the better team. If the Patriots get their asses kicked big time, then we know that everything about their success is suspect. They need to win or keep it close or the * will forever be mentally added to their legacy.
I agree. lets see how their entire season goes after this. i bet any amount of money to anyone of my friends that they will be a MEDIOCOR team. maybe a lil better considering the veterans they have on their team but all in all i think this season will determine how much the pats actually rely on these signal stealing videotapes. After that Big lou you can just bend over cause then we can all hear you better cause you do nothing but talk out of your ass!!! rofl