An Idea That Never Once Crossed My Mind:

Slate's Human Nature -- which I always enjoy reading -- reports:

Men are hiring photographers to surreptitiously record their marriage proposals. Photographers say the practice has been growing for three years. In some cases, the client and photographer arrange the timing and location for picture quality, e.g., where to stand (unbeknownst to the woman) so the camera can see both faces. One man choreographed his proposal so his girlfriend would "look pretty for the photographs." Rationales: 1) It's romantic. 2) It's a way to "share" a special moment with friends and family. 3) "The smile on her face in that moment is something you can't recreate." Critiques: 1) It's "stalkerish." 2) It's narcissistic. 3) It's a self-discrediting attempt at authenticity. 4) People are putting the photos on the Internet, so the "sharing" is indiscriminate. 5) We've come to think that photos and video are "the only way to document something" and that "if it's not on Facebook, it didn't happen." Feminist spin: It's another creepy thing men do to women. Misogynist spin: But the women are so vain they email the photos to all their co-workers. Human Nature's challenge: Find a guy who has posted photos of his girlfriend saying no. (Contestants please submit entries here.)

J.B. Clamence (mail):
Look out everyone, Mickey Kaus has hacked into the Conspiracy, and is masquerading as Eugene!
9.21.2007 9:50pm
theobromophile (www):
Think I saw that in the NYT the other day. People are already recording childbirth - what next, the wedding night, because it falls under rationale #3?

(IMHO, stalkerish and creepy. Is nothing sacred?)
9.21.2007 9:50pm
Bill Dyer (mail) (www):
It seems lower-risk (in terms of ego) than proposing on the Jumbotron during halftime at a pro basketball game.
9.21.2007 9:57pm
Extraneus (mail):
Aw, that's great! I bet a lot of men wish they had the pic.
9.21.2007 10:06pm
Extraneus (mail):
I meant "that pic." I still bet they do, too. Who wouldn't?
9.21.2007 10:07pm
theobromophile (www):
Regarding the last point: don't these people know that ladies always refuse the first proposal?
9.21.2007 10:07pm
Juliana Klovquist (mail):
It's misogynistic to point out a woman is vain?
9.21.2007 10:12pm
PGofHSM (mail) (www):
theobromophile, an Austen reference? Will you marry me?

I find any proposal made in the company of others to be dangerous. What if she feels pressured to say yes (if she knows they're there)? If she doesn't know they're there, what if he's embarrassed when she says -- not even "no" -- but just "Wow, this is unexpected, let's talk about it"?

I don't find it creepy, just tacky. Videotaping any other reasonably private proceeding (including childbirth) also falls in this category. Videotaping weddings or baptisms is normal, because they're meant to be "public" to one's community.
9.21.2007 10:14pm
Steve:
I didn't understand this post at all, until it occurred to me that not everyone proposes under the Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center.
9.21.2007 11:56pm
John Burgess (mail) (www):
If those under 30 were, properly, banned from getting married in the first place, this sort of deviant behavior would never take place.
9.22.2007 1:47am
Patrick McKenzie (mail):
I wouldn't do it myself but there is something a little romantic about it. There is a fine tradition of guys elaborately scheming for The Proposal, generally stopping at getting the maitre d' (I must have botched that spelling), a mariachi band, or whatever involved in it. It can be quite endearing and if your fiance-to-be likes it then, hey, go right ahead.

And who does it harm? Many proposals are traditionally in public or semi-public locations. The photographer is hardly a bigger cue to the audience that there is a proposal happening than the man getting down on one knee and opening a box from Tiffany's. Yeah, its an intimate moment, but its an intimate moment which is already quite scripted and which is *designed* to be retold incessantly for the next year and periodically for the rest of your life.
9.22.2007 2:34am
abu hamza:
more pressure for the guy in an already pressurecooker situation. i vote no. my proposal was astonishingy lame compared to the lengths some go to.

by the way, waiting until 30 to get married is a great idea if you don't care about having children, but if you do, a woman's fertility is well into sunset by that age. and this sounds crude and sexist, because it is, but it's also true: women bounce back better after having a kid at 21 than after having a kid at 35. sorry but it's just true.
9.22.2007 3:15am
John Tabin (mail) (www):
If a man cares about having pretty pictures of the proposal, it's worth asking whether a heterosexual marriage is really for him.
9.22.2007 5:25am
dearieme:
Does "You must be joking" count as "no"?
9.22.2007 7:42am
Leigh (mail):
I think I'd be delighted if my boyfriend did this. We're not much for taking photos, so it would be particularly nice to have a photo of such an important event. Though I'd be slightly afraid of ruining the picture, as I often do, by having my eyes closed.
9.22.2007 8:51am
Barry Kirk (mail) (www):
John Tabin,

FOTFLMAO... That was great. I had to show that post to my wife... Then she was FOTFLMAO...
9.22.2007 11:54am
ed in texas (mail):
It wasn't a hired photog per se, but a couple of weeks ago a guy set up the same scenario at Minute Maid Park during an Astros game. Proposal onscreen, on his knee on the Diamondvision AND live TV. She got up and walked away.
This was not what the crowd was expecting... didn't play well at all. Frankly I felt sorry for her. Talk about no way to back out gracefully.
9.22.2007 12:49pm
WWJD (mail):
It's like the big (first) marriages these days: is it about the love, or is it about the "show" ?

Sure, maybe there's 10% of couples who are both extroverts, bubbly, and would love this type of shared attention. But for 90%, I'm guessing, the quite genuine moment is preferable over the hype.

Kids get themselves into those big production weddings, and go through with it, but what percentage don't have regrets on the Big Day and wish they would have toned it back to more enjoyable, genuine moments with friends and family?

It is creepy to think nothing is private anymore, between the two people in the couple and a moment savored by them alone. Plus, I don't think everyone in the restaurant or stadium necessarily enjoys sharing these private moments of courtship.

It's like the guy saying "Look at Me! Look at Me!", and not taking the woman's response into account, as PGofHSM and ed in texas have noted.

John Tabin: Hilarious! I blame those damned "metrosexual" breed of men, who are all about looking good.
9.22.2007 1:01pm
Szatyor (mail):
While I am no expert, seems like a bad omen for a marriage to start it with such sneakiness.
9.22.2007 1:16pm
bellisaurius (mail):
If I could quietly have a guy in the background to snap a few picks that I'd share with my fiancee after they were developed (as a surprise. I really wouldn't care to let her know there was a photgrapher watching during the evening. Might weird out that evening's probable late night festivities), I'd be all for it.

It's not inappropriate because she can do what she wants with the pics, the guy being in the background means the intorversion doesn't matter, and hey, the concept of "spend your whole life with me and only me" is kind of narcissistic to begin with.

I do wonder of course, why some guys get a 'no' during their proposal. On some level, one should have laid the groundwork and sort of preasked (insert proper bit of machiavellian sneakiness as required), and the actual answer should be a forgone conclusion.
9.22.2007 2:22pm
notalawyer (mail):
Photographing proposals is another example of inflationary behavior in love and marriage. Private proposals become documented proposals. Small, quiet weddings become huge weddings. Taking vows once becomes taking vows twice when you "renew your vows" in middle age. It all starts with the high school proms when the boys think they have to hire a limo. Humbug, I say!
9.22.2007 4:44pm
A.C.:
Oh God no! Family Christmas letters and friends with blogs are bad enough. Lots of people (including many women) don't like to be photographed unprepared, and the number of people who go around doing this stuff is growing by the day. It's a menace, and everybody should stop it right now.
9.22.2007 4:50pm
LM (mail):

It seems lower-risk (in terms of ego) than proposing on the Jumbotron during halftime at a pro basketball game.

... or a baseball game at Yankee Stadium.
9.22.2007 5:36pm
Lively:
A close friend asked me to video tape her giving birth. I did it...focused right on the target for over an hour. It was uncomfortable. Too personal. Just as bad when I had to watch my sister's kidney stone surgery through some telescope into the body. Sheesh.
9.22.2007 6:28pm
Name withheld:
Ah, yes, I remember my dear husband's proposal over 30 years ago. We were just graduated from college. It was morning. I was in his bed. He said, "So, if we get married, I'll get more from the G.I. Bill when law school starts."

I congratulate myself for having had the sense to accept a good offer.

No photographer was present.
9.23.2007 12:13am
David Chesler (mail) (www):
Pre-ask? Don't people get pre-engaged any more? My late wife and I planned out our engagement day together - we'd bought the ring a little before, and had an all-day date of an outdoor concert, a dinner at our favorite restaurant, and a trip downtown, where we hailed a hansom cab for the purpose. I did ask her formally, on one knee and by her full name, just as we had formal wedding vows a year and a half later, but for this no witnesses, and even though I'm an avid photographer, no pictures. (I tend to get too hung up on places, and it worked well that it didn't happen in any particular place, but somewhere en route. I do still have the bottle of wine we drank at dinner that night. We mostly finished it at the wedding.)
I don't know whose idea it was first, but I suspect she (and our parents, and our friends, and everyone else) knew it was going to happen before I did -- mostly I just fell into the whole thing.
We have photos of the babies within the first minutes of their life, but neither the deliveries nor the conceptions.
9.23.2007 1:55am
John R. Mayne (mail):
I wish I had audiotaped mine. My wife and I dispute a rather key portion of the proposal and response.

I had set up my proposal well, I thought; I had her find the ring as a toy surprise in a Cracker Jack box.

As she's taking it out (opaque-side up - got lucky)

JRM: You can only keep the toy surprise if you're willing to make a deal.

Her: (cheerfully tearing the wrapper) What do I need to do to keep it? (Sudden realization of contents.)

JRM: Will you marry me?

Her: AAAAAAAHHHHHH!

JRM: This is the kind of question that requires a yes or no answer.

Her: Yes! I said "Yes"!

She *still* says she said "Yes." If I had recorded it 11 years ago, we could be arguing about the quality of the recording rather than the quality of my hearing.

--JRM
9.23.2007 4:15am
theobromophile (www):

theobromophile, an Austen reference? Will you marry me?

(Blushes) That's quite kind, but I couldn't possibly accept.
9.23.2007 5:18pm
Kenvee:
I think it could be sweet, depending on the couple. My hobby is scrapbooking, so I enjoy having photographs to commemorate occasions. To me, as long as the photographer is discreetly in the background and basically invisible during the proposal itself, it's a sweetly romantic memory. Other women don't enjoy having themselves or certain moments photographed, so this would not be a good choice for them. It's all about knowing your girlfriend and what she would like, no different than knowing if she would prefer a private, intimate proposal or a big public affair. Everyone's different.

I agree with bellisaurius that a man should really know the result before he asks. A couple should have talked about the possibility of marriage and what it will mean before anyone pops the question, IMO.
9.24.2007 11:30am
Johny (mail) (www):
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9.25.2007 3:34am