The Volokh Conspiracy

"Victims" of Subprime Mortgages and Victims of Eminent Domain:

Steven Geoffrey Gieseler of the Pacific Legal Foundation makes an excellent point in decrying the great amount of attention paid to homeowner victims of subprime mortgages in the current presidential campaign relative to those who have lost their homes to eminent domain (hat tip: Tim Sandefur of PLF on Eminent Domain):

As the campaign for the presidency unfolds, candidates from both parties are squabbling over who can bail out defaulting homeowners first, and most. The mortgage crisis has become a central issue of the Democratic and Republican primaries. "Saving homes" is now a necessary mantra for everyone seeking the White House. Problem is, they're all trying to save the wrong homes....

As stressful as losing a home to foreclosure may be, most such homeowners at a minimum share in the blame for their predicaments. After all, many agreed to loan terms that amounted to little more than gambles that, it turns out, haven't paid off.

In contrast, those who lose their homes to their federal, state, or local governments via eminent domain for private purposes are victims in the truest sense of the word. These people have done nothing wrong other than live on plots of land that more politically connected parties, and the politicians they're connected to, have decided the owners are no longer worthy of keeping.

I would add one more point to Gieseler's compelling argument. Even if you do believe that those defaulting on subprime mortgages are innocent victims, any government bailout for them is likely to create innocent victims of its own: The taxpayers who will be forced to pay for it. This is doubly unfair to recent homebuyers who stayed within their means, and may now be punished for their financial rectitude by being taxed to bail out those who were more reckless. If you want banks and other lenders to pay for the bailout, that too will generate innocent victims. If lenders are forced to bail out defaulting homebuyers, they are likely to tighten up credit requirements for future buyers, thereby making homeownership less accessible to the poor and lower middle class.

On the other hand, we can help the victims of Kelo-style "economic development" takings with little or no collateral damage to innocent third parties. Not only are such condemnations damaging to property owners, they also tend to harm the general public by spending public funds on projects that usually provide less in the way of economic growth than would have occurred if the previous owners had been left alone by the government. I discuss the reasons why in great detail in this article. Banning economic development takings is a win-win for both threatened property owners and the general public. The same can't be said for proposals to bail out subprime borrowers.

huskerfan:
So just out of curiosity what is the difference in number of homes and families that are affected by sub-prime vs. Kelo. Who should be held responsible? Your comments indicate that no one should be held responsible because that will hurt everyone i.e. the banks or the taxpayers. What about all of the banks and taxpayers who are already hurt b/c of the stupid lending practices the banks engaged in? What about all of the folks who have seen their credit card interest rates change because of the freeze? What about all of the businesses who are struggling now? That might be why Sub-prime is a bigger deal than Kelo. It simply effects more people.
1.27.2008 4:28pm
Ilya Somin:
So just out of curiosity what is the difference in number of homes and families that are affected by sub-prime vs. Kelo.

As I discuss in my linked article, since WWII, some 3-4 million people have been displaced by economic development or urban renewal takings.

Who should be held responsible? Your comments indicate that no one should be held responsible because that will hurt everyone i.e. the banks or the taxpayers.

The borrowers and lenders should be held responsible for their mistaken decisions. And the market is doing that by forcing the former to default (and lose their properties) and the latter to take losses on the loans they issued. Thus, there is little need for government intervention.
1.27.2008 4:32pm
BladeDoc (mail):
You just don't get it. Taxpayers are NEVER the victim because taxpayers are "the rich". Thus all tax cuts only benefit "the rich" (because they're the ones paying taxes, it's hard to cut someone's taxes if they don't pay any) and essentially any rise in income taxes is "making the rich pay their fair share."

It's easy once you know the tune.
1.27.2008 4:40pm
PersonFromPorlock:

If you want banks and other lenders to pay for the bailout, that too will generate innocent victims. If lenders are forced to bail out defaulting homebuyers, they are likely to tighten up credit requirements for future buyers....

That's the idea.
1.27.2008 4:42pm
Sean O'Hara (mail) (www):
[tongue in cheek]Why don't we combine the problems -- the government can use Kelo to buy up neighborhoods with too many defaulted homes and turn them into Wal-Marts. After a while the demand will be greater than supply and housing prices will increase so people who still have homes will be able to sell of at a substantial profit.

What could go wrong?[/tongue in cheek]
1.27.2008 4:54pm
sm:
The government is not going to tax anyone another cent to pay for the subprime bailout. The government will just put the expenses on the credit card until our currency collapses. Ditto for the "stimulus package".
1.27.2008 4:59pm
nyejm (mail) (www):
My wife and I bought our house last June. We looked at various buy-down packages with teaser rates for the first three, five, and seven years, but ultimately decided that the safe and responsible thing to do was get a 30-year fixed-rate loan.

I wish I'd known that, just six months later, politicians would be proposing rate freezes and bailout packages. I definitely would have gotten an irresponsible loan and saved myself some money. This stuff actually offends me.
1.27.2008 5:47pm
Lively:
It doesn't matter if Kelo displaced more homeowners. The very fact that the government has control over property makes the transaction "pure."

When a mean, evil corporation takes over property then something has got to change.

I agree with Somin: lenders lose money, borrowers lose money because of their decisions. Let's move on.
1.27.2008 6:09pm
TerrencePhilip:
Perception >> reality in politics; if people have a complaint, there's no profit in relying on the facts.

Apparently those mean old companies just need to start loaning money to people at low rates, even if they have poor credit.
1.27.2008 6:11pm
dan cole (mail):
Ilya, as you know there is one crucial difference between the loss of a home to foreclosure and the loss of a home to eminent domain: an eminent domain taking comes with compensation, which presumably enables the "victim" to acquire other accomodation. Now, you might well argue that government tends to under-compensate those who lose property in eminent domain, but that is a fundamentally different argument. As a constitutional matter, property owners are supposed to be entitled to "just compensation." That is obviously not the case to those who suffer from foreclosure, whether due to their own financial over-reaching or because of unscrupulous lending practices.
1.27.2008 6:17pm
Bruce Hayden (mail) (www):
Many, if not most, of those losing their houses through foreclosure right now don't really have that much tied up in their houses and bought bigger houses than they could afford. If they had the money in the first place, they would have likely gotten a better mortgage. It is called "subprime" for a reason.
1.27.2008 6:32pm
Ak:
Bruce: I'm not sure you understand. They were VICTIMS. The banks lured them in by giving them larger mortgages than they could financially support. I mean, honestly, if you expect people to be able to determine whether or not they will be able to pay a certain mortgage offer or not, where does it end? Will we start expecting people to figure out that buying lots of things on high APR credit cards may be financially disastrous? I say we nip this crazy talk in the bud before it gets started.
1.27.2008 6:39pm
Joe Kowalski (mail):
Well, it could be argued that the impact of foreclosures goes beyond the affected parties. In general a large number of foreclosures can lower everyone else's property values, so a temporary bailout that averts some of those foreclosures could save other owners in terms of property values.

I don't know how much merit this argument has, but it makes sense to me.
1.27.2008 7:07pm
Lior:
@dan cole: those who "suffer from forclosure" aren't innocent -- they took a risk, and the risk didn't work out. It's not like some outside third party arbitrarily decided to foreclose their house. Since they wouldn't have paid me a share of the rewards had the gamble panned out, I don't see why I need to shoulder a share of the penalty when the gamble failed. When the government takes your property you do "suffer from eminent domain" -- since you never had a choice. Moreover, by definition the "compensation" you get is less than the worth of the house to you (else you'd have agreed to sell in the first place).
1.27.2008 7:10pm
theobromophile (www):
The reverse of Joe's argument is that over-lending drives up housing costs, thus displacing people who could actually afford the (non-inflated) cost of the house into less-valuable properties. (It increases the demand for certain properties.)

When people stay in their houses, it's great for them: they are, by definition, owning more house than they are able to purchase without a bailout. The cost is shouldered by the taxpayers - either those responsible enough to buy homes within their means, or those who are unable to afford homes and continue to rent. It is a double slap in the face to long-time renters who do not buy until it is financially feasible for them to do so.
1.27.2008 7:30pm
Lior:
@Joe Kowalski: If we (via the government) enacted rules that made houses more scarce (or made capital cheaper, to an extent) then house prices would go up. This would benefit current homeowners, and hurt people who own other assets (e.g. future earnings) which they would like to convert into home owndership. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch: your "increase in property values" is a transfer of cash from homebuyers to homeowners.

Of course, the reverse would hold with measures that would increase the supply of houses (or reduce the supply of capital). In either case, why should one class of citizens be favoured over another class?

Giving tax money to people who made bad investments would hit renters with a double whammy: first directly, the cash they were saving to buy a house when prices when down would be taken away to be given to people who bought when they shouldn't have. Secondly, this will raise prices so the cash that was saved by those who wisely waited for the market to correct itself will buy less house than it otherwise would have.
1.27.2008 7:51pm
A.C.:
Everything about the real estate market in the past decade has been spit in the face of those of us who keep waiting to buy until we can afford it -- with 20% down and a fixed-rate mortgage. That's the only way I'll do it, and I'm still waiting. Prices have to come down a lot more before I'll be satisfied, and naturally I'm not interested in bailing out the people who helped the bubble grow.

In the meantime, rent looks like a pretty good deal.
1.27.2008 7:55pm
pete (mail) (www):
I bought my first house a little less than two years ago after saving up a down payment for several years and got a 30 year fixed mortgage. Before I bought my house I read up on the different mortgage options and saw that a 30 year fixed rate was the wisest one with interest rates as low as they were at the time. This took a total of a couple of hours of work before I made the biggest financial decision I have ever made. Not that my house is that bad, but it is a bit of a fixer upper. I would have loved to get a bigger one or one that needed less work on it or one near slightly better schools or one that was closer to my work. But that was beyond my means and would have been irresponsible with my finances what they are.

So in short, I have no sympathy for people who bought better houses than me without making the sacrifices that I made or without doing the very minimum ammount of work to learn what the consequences of their financial decisions would be. And I have no sympathy for lenders who were irresponsible with the money in their charge. I hope none of my tax dollars go towards bailing any of these people out of the mess they made for themselves.

There are no victims here, except for people who fell "victim" to their own greed, ignorance, or laziness and the third parties who will suffer because of these people's foolish choices.
1.27.2008 8:06pm
MJM:
I would make another connection: the government is the culprit in both situations, although indirectly in the subprime situation by inflating the money supply.
1.27.2008 8:27pm
Javert:
An excellent juxtaposition illustrating our government's moral inversion. The subprime bailout rewards the guilty, while eminent domain punishes the innocent.

Re "compensation" for a taking. A "just" compensation, properly speaking, is one a seller voluntarily agrees to. If the transaction is coerced, then no amount of compensation is "just."
1.27.2008 8:33pm
Jaynie59:
nyejm



I agree completely. The entire notion of bailing out people who make foolish choices is offensive, and it just makes me more cynical about politics and all politicians.

Like Pete, I too had to choose whether to buy a house I could afford or a take a mortgage that would be easily approved, but leave me essentially "house poor". So I bought a dump and spent $110,000 renovating it. I bought the worst house in the best neighborhood, cleaned out my 401K and all my savings, and took cash advances on credit cards, and then I hoped I could re-finance it enough to pay off my debt. I lucked out and it worked out. Luckily for me, the values didn't drop until about a year after I refinanced.

I now have negative equity in my house. But I have the house I wanted, and I can afford the mortgage. I'm slowly working my savings back up, but I put off retirement by years because I cleaned out my 401K to do it.

It is offensive to me, as some who did gamble and knew the consequences, to be forced to bail out people who can't do basic math.
1.27.2008 8:34pm
JBL:
In the simple case of one lender and one borrower, it's usually pretty clear who is taking on what risk, and if the borrower defaults the two are free to negotiate alternate arrangements. That might mean foreclosure, it might not.

Part of the problem with the subprime debacle is that these loans were packaged and sliced and sold through so many different parties that it's difficult to tell who should be doing what. And the market was somewhat distorted to begin with, since banks, brokers, FHA, FNMA, etc. all have different regulations. Much of the talk I've seen (around the industry, not from presidential candidates) about the 'bailout' isn't really about taking tax dollars to save anybody, it's about modifying various rules to facilitate the negotiation process for those cases where foreclosure may not be the best possible option.

If the government can come up with a sensible solution that will address the regulatory distortions, facilitate transactions, and let people work out their situations, I'm all for it. I'm not optimistic about what our politicians will actually come up with, but there are some ideas out there that make sense.

With eminent domain, there are (arguably) cases where a government taking with (more or less) just compensation may be necessary to facilitate the broader market. If that's the case, I can support the government dong what it deems necessary. On the other hand, there are an awful lot of cases where the government seizure obstructs rather than facilitates the market.

To my mind, the comparison between foreclosures and eminent domain is useful not so much because the situations are similar, but because they're both good examples for working out the proper scope and purpose of government intervention. It's the kind of thought exercise more people need to do more of.
1.27.2008 8:59pm
Richard Aubrey (mail):
I can't put my finger on it, but not long ago I read a report to the point that about 40% of the foreclosures included a loan form in which the applicant materially misrepresented his financial situation.
That's called "predatory borrowing".
Should there be a distinction made with these folks, whatever percentage they are, ineligible for relief?
1.27.2008 9:17pm
Allan (mail):
I have little sympathy for those who are losing money as part of the subrime mess from the lenders' end. They are sophisticated lenders and should understand what happened. If they were duped, it was their own fault.

Similarly, I have no sympathy for those speculators who are losing their shirts or those who took out so much equity that they are in a bad situation.

I do have sympathy for those who were sold high mortgage rates because they did not know better. Those who took advantage of these people should disgorge their profits. If that is not possible, they should be tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail.

As for eminent domain. Yeah, I feel sorry for those folk. But, in theory, they are not out any money, just property. And, like it or not, real property is fungible. They, conceivably, can find another place to live.
1.27.2008 9:52pm
theobromophile (www):

As for eminent domain. Yeah, I feel sorry for those folk. But, in theory, they are not out any money, just property. And, like it or not, real property is fungible. They, conceivably, can find another place to live.

Not in the same sense that water or gasoline are fungible. Aside from the fact that not all houses are alike, and you simply cannot find an identical house in a similar neighbourhood on short notice, there are other rights and privileges attached to owning a home. Your children will be able to attend a certain school in the district. Depending on where you move to, you may be represented by a different elected official (very likely at the town level; slightly less likely at the state level). Houses in different towns are subject to different tax rates. Even within a town, zoning regulations may differ, which will make a difference in terms of long-term value of the property and the potential to have intrusive and undesireable neighbours, traffic, or businesses around one's home.

When you move, you do not have the same "property" (house, backyard, land, neighbourhood, school district, precinct) as you did before; it is a far cry from choosing, say, Shell over Mobil.
1.27.2008 10:04pm
Ilya Somin:
Well, it could be argued that the impact of foreclosures goes beyond the affected parties. In general a large number of foreclosures can lower everyone else's property values, so a temporary bailout that averts some of those foreclosures could save other owners in terms of property values.

Maybe. But I don't see why lower property values are necessarily a bad thing. It hurts existing property owners, but benefits potential buyers and makes homeownership more feasible for the less affluent. Furthermore, it's not clear to me why foreclosures should lower the value of nonforeclosed properties, at least in the long run.

In any event, lots of factors may reduce the value of property. No one argues that all of them should be offset by the government merely because property owners will lose some of their equity.
1.27.2008 10:10pm
SenatorX (mail):
Housing prices will fall until they reach affordability levels. Also because of the inventory that has built up the prices will be pressured even further. Once the inventory starts getting worked off and heading toward normal levels then and only then can someone say the bottom is in. The sooner the prices come down the better.
1.27.2008 10:33pm
Lior:
@Allan:
As for eminent domain .. those folk ... in theory ... are not out any money, just property.


This would be true if the only use they made of the property is economic -- owning it, renting it etc. You see, living in a house is valuable -- but you normally don't get compensation for that. The fact that you live in the house today represents an investment of time finding the new house, negotiating its purchace, arranging for a move, furnishing, learning the environment etc. It's true that the value of the house represents this to some extent -- except that normally you get to decide when to make this investment of time. Perhaps this year you can't afford to take time off work? Perhaps you'll have to accept a worse deal for a new home because you have a deadline to vacate your old one? Perhaps right now you have medical issues to deal with and don't need the extra stress?

It is true that all of these "damages" can be quantified. If you give me enough money I could hire someone to go house-hunting for me, or not have to bargain so hard for the replacement house. But the real issue is that the same house can have different values to different people. Here's a simple example: a house where one of the rooms has a separate front door. To a therapist, this is an immense value: he can use the room to see patients without admitting them to the "private" parts of the house. To the average person, not so much. So how much compensation is due when the therapists loses this house? As much as anther therapist would pay for the house? As much as an average joe would pay for it? For an even simpler example, in your scheme do people who lose houses which are within walking distance of their work get extra compensation?
1.27.2008 11:03pm
Mark Jones (mail):
[quote]As for eminent domain. Yeah, I feel sorry for those folk. But, in theory, they are not out any money, just property. And, like it or not, real property is fungible. They, conceivably, can find another place to live.[/quote]

But if real property is fungible, why does the government demand MY property? Won't any other fungible piece of real property do just as well?

"You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."
1.28.2008 12:50am
Soronel Haetir (mail):

Ilya Somin,

One argument for why foreclosed properties effect other homeowners is that foreclosed properties tend not to be maintained and thus detract from the neighborhood. There was a piece on msnbc.com a week or so ago about cities taking lenders to court over this. Also in some areas abandoned homes attract squaters or other illegitimate residents. In some of the cases the msnbc piece cited the lenders simply walked away from the property and allowed the city to proceed with forfieture for unpaid taxes.

These factors produce a drain on value that is much greater than simply having many properties in the same neighborhood that are surplus.
1.28.2008 2:52am
Gramarye:
Ilya wrote:
If lenders are forced to bail out defaulting homebuyers, they are likely to tighten up credit requirements for future buyers, thereby making homeownership less accessible to the poor and lower middle class.
I think that, minus the spin, many in public office, many average Joes, and even some players in the financial industry see this as a feature, not a bug. It would hardly be the end of the world if lenders stopped offering these risky mortgages entirely. There is at least a growing strain of opinion that says credit has been too loose, which would meaning "tighten[ing] up credit requirements for future buyers" is part of the solution, not the cause of future problems.

Politically, the logic is actually little different than the arguments against a subprime bailout for the borrowers. A wave of foreclosures in a down housing market would be an inevitable loser for the current holders of the mortgages (likely in securitized form). The idea is that getting your hand burned teaches you not to play with fire in the future. I realize that economically, the two ideas are opposites--one involves government compulsion "making banks and other lenders pay for the bailout," while the other involves the government just letting the cards fall where they will. However, given that the latter is likely to involve (and indeed, already has involved) substantial losses for the financial players, the "burned hand" political lesson would theoretically be similar.
1.28.2008 8:39am
Seamus (mail):
And, like it or not, real property is fungible.

You keep using that word. I do not think that work means what you think it means.

The way it's always been explained to me, real property is almost the classic example of a *non*-fungible good.
1.28.2008 9:52am
JBL:
Real property is not a generally considered a fungible good.

But the point does highlight one of the key problems with the political spin. The fact is, very few people who lose their house to foreclosure end up homeless.

In fact, believing both "foreclosures will result in battalions of people not having a place to live" and "foreclosures will result in a large oversupply of housing" requires a considerable effort at doublethink.

Eminent domain, on the other hand, although it rarely results in homelessness (at least in this country), doesn't (necessarily) directly address alternative housing.
1.28.2008 10:10am
JOe:
The sub prime "mess" consists of two major components. The first is the borrower and the related foreclosures. While these foreclosures are up somewhat significantly over the last 3-4 years, they are not up significantly over the normal range that foreclosures typically have over longer time frames.

The second component is the credit crunch in the secondary market. This credit crunch is due primarily to the pricing of the loan protfolio's in the secondary market and only marginally affected by the recent upswing in the number of foreclosures. Essentially, the pricing did not take into account the normal risk factor for normal foreclosure range for that type product.
1.28.2008 11:16am
alkali (mail):
huskerfan writes:

That might be why Sub-prime is a bigger deal than Kelo. It simply affects more people.

IS responds:

As I discuss in my linked article, since WWII, some 3-4 million people have been displaced by economic development or urban renewal takings.

Since the end of major federal urban renewal projects in the early 1970s,(*) has there been a lot of eminent-domain related displacement? My sense is there has not been.

(* Public housing construction slowed substantially when the Section 8 housing voucher program was enacted in 1974. I'm guessing urban highway development slowed considerably after the 1960s due to budget constraints and environmental concerns.)
1.28.2008 12:25pm
Kevin Raley (mail):
The vast majority of the eminent domain proceedings that I see in Houston, Texas are related to the expansion of the major commuter routes. People and businesses that own land on the frontage roads along the interstates are bought out (voluntarily or otherwise) so that the highways can be widened.
1.28.2008 2:36pm
Gramarye:
Kevin: Even had Kelo come out the other way, it wouldn't have impaired such takings in the least. If it's for a public highway, that's pretty much the textbook example of what eminent domain was designed to be for.

(I think it might get a lot more interesting if highway privatization becomes a widespread fashion among the political classes, though. I'm waiting for a case in which eminent domain is proposed for the construction of a privately owned and operated highway in a state where the state high court has come out on the side of the Kelo dissenters.)
1.28.2008 2:50pm
Smokey:
Allan:
As for eminent domain. Yeah, I feel sorry for those folk. But, in theory, they are not out any money, just property. And, like it or not, real property is fungible...
Fungible, for want of a better word, means equal.

Stock shares are fungible; one share of a corporation is equal to another, and thus can be sold short and repurchased later. An ounce of gold is fungible. A dollar is fungible. But houses?? They are pretty much the antonym of fungible. That's the basis of specific performance.
1.28.2008 7:26pm
Vinnie (mail):
Fungible, for want of a better word, means equal.


How about interchangeable. If we both have wives they may be equal but seldom interchangeable.
1.29.2008 10:19am
theobromophile (www):

How about interchangeable. If we both have wives they may be equal but seldom interchangeable.

If you told your wife that she is fungible, I think you would be without a wife.... :)
1.29.2008 12:08pm
David M. Nieporent (www):
Since the end of major federal urban renewal projects in the early 1970s,(*) has there been a lot of eminent-domain related displacement? My sense is there has not been.
Sports stadiums are one egregious category.
1.30.2008 3:42am