Berkeley's and the far Left's latest bout of self-marginalization was cunningly planted by Karl Rove, and of course the neocons. On top of the lovely, pointless self-parody from the Berkeley City Council, check out this item, from the same news story:
Code Pink on Wednesday started circulating petitions to put a measure on the November ballot in Berkeley that would make it more difficult to open military recruiting offices near homes, parks, schools, churches libraries or health clinics. The group needs 5,000 signatures to make the ballot.
I mean, that wouldn't be even remotely effective, even if it were enacted and upheld against a preemption challenge -- it's just an attempt to insult the Marines. Karl and the neocons say, "Bwahahaha! Everything is going just as we planned."
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On the commercial front, Telegraph Avenue has lost city-beloved icons at a fast clip. They've been replaced by the generic chain stores that students might actually spend money at. There's a Chipotle on Telegraph now. Think about that.
The progressive student groups wised up to the irony of supplying Republicans with talking points sometime in 2002-2003. Still waiting on the city.
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Marine" only "former Marines"
Is Councilman Max Anderson an ex-Marine?
I would love to know what he was actually court martialed for?
(1) Berkeley is already marginalized as much as it will be. Protests against the Marines will not significantly change that. The city has nothing to lose.
(2) There are better, more principled arguments against the actions of Berkeley than trying to appeal to their self-interest. Aren't their any larger principles involved that you could invoke? For example, the idea that Berkeley should be more respectful of the military, because without it, the residents of Berkeley wouldn't have the freedom they do. This isn't an argument against protest, it is an argument against disrespectful protests. I would say trying to run the Marines out of town steps over the line.
Principled arguments require the other side to have principles.
Berkley does have principles, but not the ones which you think your arguments address.
They are anti-military. They are poseurs. They are nutcases elected by, at least, a swing vote number of nutcases.
To expect them to allow some gratitude for those who make their nutcasery possible is absurd. Any attempt will be met by a litany of their oppressions.
(2) There are better, more principled arguments against the actions of Berkeley than trying to appeal to their self-interest. Aren't their any larger principles involved that you could invoke? For example, the idea that Berkeley should be more respectful of the military, because without it, the residents of Berkeley wouldn't have the freedom they do. This isn't an argument against protest, it is an argument against disrespectful protests. I would say trying to run the Marines out of town steps over the line."
Realistically, the people we're talking about are too silly to understand your example. But it wouldn't stop them even if they did -- they're free-riding on the fact that the US will not allow California to be overrun by enemy forces just to show Berkeley the error of its ways.
But I would be interested in seeing one prominent Democrat denounce the City of Berkeley for its idiocy. I realize Mr. Liberal did so on this thread, and I applaud him for it. But I am not otherwise holding my breath.
Walk down Sproul Plaza and you'll see numerous Christian student groups.
There's also a tradition of radical Christianity that some tap into.
When an elected body gives aid and comfort to the enemy, does anyone think that doesn't give a big morale boost to those trying to kill our soldiers?
Actions like Berkeley's surely result in higher casualties among our soldiers -- who certainly know the score:
Not only that, but then the noise from the protests would be inflicted on the city government.
They want to look stupid?
I wouldn't think that would always be the case. And trying to conflate the two is intellectually dishonest as well as a tactic that panders to readers of dumb right-wing propaganda.
Nick
Thanks.
More like Berkeley and the far Right who's actions are similar on the Liberty/Tyranny scale. Both seem to want to dictate their morality to others.
Yup, all those right-wing city governments providing designated parking spaces and automatically renewing weekly demonstration permits for Operation Rescue...
Either that or a wee bit of eminent domain use by the USMC. They could really use an urban warfare training facility that uses a real urban environment.
Another possibility: Perhaps 8/9 of the Council has breakfasted on Crack Loops?
(Or am I the only Gen-Xer on the boards?)
Oh, sure. Undoubtedly, the City Council disagrees with stationing Marines in Falloujah, where no one's been shot at in months. They should be redeployed to Afghanistan where they can crawl up and down the mountains, killing Taliban. It seems like an awfully obtuse way to make the point, however.
Similarly, appeals to one's patriotism should be out of bounds for recruiters. Every potential recruit should be supplied with information about how to better his or her life without taking the risk of being shot.
That’s certainly true. One by one they have fallen like Cody’s Bookstore. I think they fell victim to the Internet book buying. Why pay list price and sales tax when you can order the same thing at a discount with no sales tax? The unpleasantness of walking down Telegraph Avenue didn’t help either. I knew someone who had his arm broken by a bunch of thugs about a block from Cody’s. Telegraph Avenue also had riots following the Rodney King incident in Los Angles. A lot of stores got trashed and never reopened. Today there is little reason to go there. It’s become a bore.
So, are there no other plausible motivations? None that I can see.
For Code Pink, it is double-plus true that they have no other plausible reason. Not for them.
So, when looking for plausible reasons, the nature of the party involved is relevant.
I humbly disagree with you, they think much higher of porn stores than the Marines.