Our Friends the Saudis:

Apparently criticizing prison conditions is enough to get a Saudi academic arrested. (Link via Henry Farrell)

Bill Poser (mail) (www):
Not my friends.

This is the same country that disbars attorneys for complaining when their client, a rape victim, is entenced to be flogged.
5.31.2008 3:13pm
Oren:
Bill (or anyone), what policy could we actually have towards the Saudis? IMO, there's just not much we can do . . .
5.31.2008 3:20pm
byomtov (mail):
Bush's friends, anyway.
5.31.2008 3:26pm
EH (mail):
Which makes them our friends by proxy, whether you like it or not.
5.31.2008 3:38pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
Oren,

I agree that there is a limit to what we can do, but we certainly don't need to cuddle up to the Saudis the way we do. Not only is it one of the most autocratic countries in the world, but it is a major exporter of both ideology and funding for Islamism, anti-Semitism, and terrorism. Why are we selling them sophisticated military aircraft, for example? Who's going to invade them? The Soviet Union? Iraq?
5.31.2008 3:40pm
PersonFromPorlock:
Well, we don't want to support nasty regimes but on the other hand we don't want to encourage instability by supporting the nasty regimes' overthrow, either. So for us, paralysis is a workable compromise.
5.31.2008 3:43pm
juris_imprudent (mail):
what policy could we actually have towards the Saudis?

Kissingerian real-politik, and I'm not even a fan of Kissinger.
5.31.2008 3:58pm
Craig R. Harmon (mail):
They're just trying to assist said academic in gaining first hand, "hands on" research experience on the conditions of prisons in SA. They're upholding academic freedom, you see! The academic is now free to change his published academic opinion to more fully conform to that of the ruling parties the "Truth".

I'm afraid we'd like whatever alternative to the present regime is waiting in the wings to take its place much less.
5.31.2008 5:38pm
Cornellian (mail):
Is there anything that doesn't risk getting you arrested in Saudi Arabia?
5.31.2008 5:42pm
Sam Hall (mail):
"Who's going to invade them? The Soviet Union? Iraq?"

Iran. The Magic Kingdom didn't start exporting their faith until Carter gave Iran to the Ayatollah Khomeini who really, really wanted control of Mecca.
5.31.2008 6:07pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
Sam Hall,

Do you think that Iran has a realistic chance of invading Saudi Arabia? Since crossing Iraq and Kuwait would presumably have unfortunate consequences, I assume they'd have to do it by sea. From what I can tell, they aren't equipped for a massive amphibious operation like that.
5.31.2008 6:46pm
Sam Hall (mail):
"Do you think that Iran has a realistic chance of invading Saudi Arabia?"

Not unless Iraq falls apart which is looking less and less likely by the day.

However, destroying Israel isn't the only reason Iran wants nuclear weapons. There is a lot of hate between the Shia and Sunni Muslims and Wahabism really sets the Shia's teeth on edge.
5.31.2008 7:00pm
AnonLawStudent:

Why are we selling them sophisticated military aircraft, for example?

Weapons platform, sensors, weapons, spare parts, and maintenance are separate sales. We gain a measure of control by selling the weapons platform. Ask Iran how well an AIM-54 works when U.S. maintenance assistance terminates or how useful a HAWK batter is without missiles. Moreover, it is part of a larger effort colloquially referred to as "recycling petrodollars."

Do you think that Iran has a realistic chance of invading Saudi Arabia? Since crossing Iraq and Kuwait would presumably have unfortunate consequences, I assume they'd have to do it by sea. From what I can tell, they aren't equipped for a massive amphibious operation like that.

Virtually all Saudi oil exports are by sea. One doesn't have to invade to exercise sufficient sea control to significantly affect the cost of ocean-based transport. Remember the Tanker War in the 1980s?
5.31.2008 7:01pm
Dr. T (mail) (www):
Reply to Cornellian: Groveling in the sand and kissing the feet of a member of the House of Saud.

I do not believe that President Bush or other high level White House officials consider Saudi Arabia to be an ally or the Saudi royal family to be friends of the U.S. They see a monarchy that owns billions of barrels of easily extractable oil, and they want access to that oil. Hence the sales of military hardware (mostly fighter jets). Many of the princes join the Saudi Air Force so they can play with these toys. This seems harmless to me, because the jets would only be useful against a second-rate air force. A first rate air force (us or the Israelis) would eat their lunches.
5.31.2008 7:05pm
TokyoTom (mail):
Yes, what the Saudi's do is cause for concern, and of course fuels the jihadists.

Thank goodness we've set such a sterling example on human rights issues on a wide range of fronts over the past seven years, so we are well-positined to embarass and lean on the Saudis to behave more civilly.
6.2.2008 9:57am
fishbane (mail):

Kissingerian real-politik, and I'm not even a fan of Kissinger.



Folks interested in how we got to where we are wrt the Saudis should read _Confessions of an Economic Hitman_. It explains how, as a reaction to the embargo, a complicated alliance was created wherein the Saudis would buy U.S. securities, the interest on those securities would be used to pay U.S. engineering firms to build infrastructure, the U.S. would provide regime stability and military assistance to S.A., and S.A. would not embargo again.

And it is suspected that Kissinger was the one who sold the deal.
6.2.2008 11:34am
Opher Banarie (mail) (www):
The reality of the situation is that we are whores for Saudi oil. If they sold peanut oil we would tell them to go to h**l. We need to end our dependence on oil. Check out www.energyvictory.net for a realistic plan.
6.2.2008 1:28pm
Opher Banarie (mail) (www):
Bill Poser -

Do you think that Iran has a realistic chance of invading Saudi Arabia?

They don't need to invade - one missile strike on the oil terminal will take Saudi crude off the market for weeks or months. That's enough to destabilize the developed world.
6.2.2008 1:31pm
Jiminy (mail):
Look up operation Ajaxif any of you actually wondered why the Iranian government is so distrustful of the Americans &the British. The Iranians form of religion directly opposes the Saudi form, parallel to Communism vs fascism in the 20th century. We have picked the team we want to win in that war, so it would be silly to yell at our "team" until the conflict is resolved between the two countries. We already abandoned Hussein after he couldn't wipe Iran off the map with our approval and funding, so we needed to make sure our other proxy was up to the task. Musharraf has given up against his extremists too, so we have all the chips on the Saudis now.
6.2.2008 3:40pm
EIDE_Interface (mail):
More neocon bs. Next.
6.2.2008 3:58pm
juris_imprudent (mail):
read _Confessions of an Economic Hitman_

If I'm going to read fiction, I prefer first-rate fiction.
6.2.2008 9:07pm