No Supreme Court Second Amendment Opinion (in D.C. v. Heller) Today:

Looks like it will be coming down Wednesday or Thursday.

For whatever it's worth, SCOTUSblog's Tom Goldstein reports that "The only opinion remaining from the March sitting is Heller. The only Justice without a majority opinion from that sitting is Justice Scalia." Since usually each Justice is assigned at least one majority opinion per sitting, that's something of a sign that Justice Scalia is likely to write the majority opinion in Heller. But it's of course far from certain, for a variety of reasons.

For more on how this guessing game is played, see this SCOTUSblog post from last week. Note that it says neither Justice Souter nor Justice Scalia had majority opinions from the March sitting, but Justice Souter wrote one that came down today, so that's why Tom Goldstein says only Justice Scalia is left.

Happyshooter:
I am concerned. They may be waiting until closer to the holiday weekend for when the working people are distracted by family.
6.23.2008 10:18am
Dennis Nicholls (mail):
Well the tea leaves in my cup are somewhat cloudy. Since Justice Souter wrote the opionion in Rothgery, perhaps it's less likely he wrote Heller and thus more likely that Justice Scalia wrote Heller.

This is such an odd period of history. Every opinion day I put off raising my flag until after I check in with SCOTUSBlog. I normally put up the standard 50 star flag but anticipate putting up my "old Navy" flag on the day the Heller opinion is released.
6.23.2008 10:23am
DiverDan (mail):
I doubt that the Supreme Court is putting off Heller only to hope that people are distracted by a holiday weekend. First, if the Court follows tradition, it will adjourn by the end of this week. Second, I think it's more likely that Scalia has been assigned the Opinion, that he has written an opinion that's overly broad for some Justices and has only garnered a plurality, and that Roberts has delayed the announcement in hopes that, with some negotiated tweaking, he can get Scalia to narrow the opinion to something that a clear majority can join.
6.23.2008 10:25am
MJG:
I wouldn't be surprised if Scalia was assigned Heller. But there are definitely going to be several opinions. The urge to make a mark on the Second Amendment is a temptation too great for many of the Justices. I would be surprised if Breyer, Stevens, or Ginsberg were silent. Roberts likely assigned the opinion to Scalia because the chances of him silently signing onto another opinion was nil. I would actually like to read an opinion on this by Thomas, but I don't think any opinion he wrote could garner a majority.

It will be unwieldy, but interesting. If the Chief can keep the number of opinions down I will give him lots of credit, but I don't know if that would even be a possible task.
6.23.2008 10:32am
Per Son:
I believe the court will find an individual right 9-0, and there will be a splintered plurality covering how and when the government can lawfully limit the right.

Kind of like the 1st Amendment says one thing, but last time I checked defamation and other limits on speech exist.
6.23.2008 10:33am
Dennis Nicholls (mail):
Dan's probably right. CJ Roberts probably would wish to get a unanimous decision in an important Bill of Rights case.
6.23.2008 10:36am
BRM:
The text of the second amendment lends itself well to Scalia's historical bloviating.
6.23.2008 10:40am
U.Va. 3L:
I agree with Per Son's prediction. I wouldn't be surprised to see a mess of tests emerge about what level of scrutiny applies to restrictions of the right, that sort of thing, but I do expect the existence of an individual right to be unanimous.
6.23.2008 10:43am
Henry679 (mail):
There is not going to be a unanimous decision here. My only fear is some horribly fractured plurality that does little of real precedential worth other than striking down the the DC law. I could definitely see a majority opinion for the academic proposition that the 2A is an individual right, but an almost wholly different majority applying a pathetic standard of review to government decision making under it.

Or making the Court is just holding back for dramatic effect--they know all eyes are on them more than anytime since 2000.
6.23.2008 10:45am
MRSquared (mail):
If "individual right" is a unanimous holding, it will be quite a repudiation of all of the law school con-law professors who have long clinged to this view to justify their policy preferences.
6.23.2008 10:50am
Brett Bellmore:
My fear is that Roberts is going to be so obsessed with getting a large majority to sign onto the decision, that he waters it down to something a lot weaker, and more destructive of the right the founders were trying to guarantee, than 5 of the "Justices" would have been willing to uphold.
6.23.2008 10:51am
Mikey:
I think they'll put it out on Thursday and get the hell out of town, because whichever way it goes, someone's gonna be out for blood...
6.23.2008 10:52am
Per son:
I find it interesting that despite almost nothing on paper or speech supporting a less than unanimous opinion, some believe that it will be normal 5/4 territory. I beg everyone to not think like that.

Why does a habeas case impact this one, or an abortion one, etc.?

Heck, this years decisions have hardly been dividing along "left, right lines."

Heck, Breyer is referred to as a liberal, but his sentencing decisions, and most business decisions are center to conservative.

In other words, remove your lenses when peering into this case.
6.23.2008 10:53am
MRSquared (mail):
My understanding of this case is that if there were an individual right, this statute would fail any standard of review. Thus, any writing on the appropriate standard of review would be dicta, no?
6.23.2008 10:54am
Happyshooter:
I also feel a lot worse about this decision after five members of the court flat out made up new law in deciding to release terrorists to kill more military members in the middle of a war.

If they will do something that harmful to the nation and its armed forces, what would stop them from effectively banning ownership of arms.
6.23.2008 10:55am
Per son:
MRSquared, that is certainly an argument to make. Not one the Administration or DC would make, however.
6.23.2008 10:55am
NI:
Slightly off topic, but if we're going to read Supreme Court tea leaves, I'm more interested in whether there will be any retirements. A Republican justice might just decide to give Bush one last appointment before the Obamas move into the White House for four or eight years. If so, it will be quite a confirmation.
6.23.2008 10:55am
OrinKerr:
I doubt that the Supreme Court is putting off Heller only to hope that people are distracted by a holiday weekend. First, if the Court follows tradition, it will adjourn by the end of this week. Second, I think it's more likely that Scalia has been assigned the Opinion, that he has written an opinion that's overly broad for some Justices and has only garnered a plurality, and that Roberts has delayed the announcement in hopes that, with some negotiated tweaking, he can get Scalia to narrow the opinion to something that a clear majority can join.

I would be very surprised if there were still votes in play at this point, just 2-3 days before the very end of the road The most likely explanation is that the Justices need time to write and respond to other opinions and to put finishing touches on their own. They know they're writing for the history books in Heller, so they want to do the best job they can. It's very common for the court's biggest cases to come down the last day; if history is a guide, the same will go for Heller.
6.23.2008 10:57am
Per son:
Happy Shooter:

Can you point to the case where any terrorists were released, or a release was authorized?

Even assuming that everyone at GITMO is a terrorist, something the military has never come close to saying, where is this case that releases them?
6.23.2008 10:57am
Brett Bellmore:
A Republican Justice might decide to reduce the size of the Court to 8 members for the next seven months, but would have no power to give Bush one last appointment at this date. The Democratic Senate would simply refuse to act on the nomination.
6.23.2008 10:59am
Brett Bellmore:

Can you point to the case where any terrorists were released, or a release was authorized?


Quite right, this Supreme court ruling that upsets so many releases nobody, unless the government can't produce a good reason for holding them. Frankly, if the government doesn't have a good reason for holding somebody, they SHOULD be released.
6.23.2008 11:04am
Per son:
In fact, CJ Roberts thinks that this case will hold many for a lot longer.
6.23.2008 11:05am
JPS3L:
To the extent that Justice Scalia is writing the opinion, I think it is good news. Recall that the CJ gets to choose who will write the opinion if he is in the majority. If he needed to finesse an opinion to cobble together a majority he would have written it himself or given it to Kennedy. That fact that he gave it to Scalia suggests to me that he has a strong majority to sign on to that type of an opinion. Perhaps 6-3 that there is an individual liberty interest, and 5-4 as to what the right includes. I suspect the right will stand independently of military purpose to protect self-defense, hunting, and shooting sports, and may ironicly limit its nexus to a military purpose to uphold the federal ban on machione guns, etc. Also, I don't see a specific standard of review being adopted, but instead a litany of example of permissible regulations being used to strike down or uphold contemporary bans (no guns for felons or mentally ill; no machine guns or tanks for civilians because they were only expected to show up with personal firearms and not speciality weapons like canons). Most importantly, though, Scalia writing the opinion at the Chief's request suggests to me that the DC statutes will be struck down.
6.23.2008 11:05am
Brett Bellmore:

That fact that he gave it to Scalia


There is speculation that he gave it to Scalia. By the end of the week, we might know if that's a "fact".
6.23.2008 11:10am
Happyshooter:
Can you point to the case where any terrorists were released, or a release was authorized?

Even assuming that everyone at GITMO is a terrorist, something the military has never come close to saying, where is this case that releases them?


I know you are trying to make a point, but it is a silly one. Allowing a habeas claim by a enemy prisoner of war, an unlawful combatant at that, in the middle of a war releases the combatant back to the field to kill again. Not only that, but he will be in better physical shape, will have the experience of having lost a battle, and of being given years of debrief time to do a better job this time around.

The habeas claim is a criminal case claim, not something you could ever use in a war. 'Hey, I know we captured you killing our troops, get back out there and now you can do a better job of it.' This is not a guy that stuck up the 7/11, it is an enemy troop sworn to his faith and his commander to defeat our nation.

Because it is a criminal case measure it is set up to be used in normal crimes at a normal criminal case standard, it won't take a Weinstein level liberal to start releasing these enemy troops to kill again as soon as they say the word 'habeas'.

The fact that they can bring a habeas claim means they will be released. They will kill more American troops. We will be more likely to lose the war. That is just fine with the lefties on the court, they can lose the Boosh War and the only people dying are the military from the lower classes anyway. Win/win.
6.23.2008 11:15am
JPS3L:
Of course, the author of the opinion is unknown at this time. All indications, however, point to Scalia being the author, unless a Justice switched sides, creating a new majority. I doubt this happened from the tenor of oral argument.

Nevertheless, if we agree that it is at least likely that Scalia is writing the opinion at the CJ's request, then I think it bodes well for a strong individual rights view of the 2nd Amendment.
6.23.2008 11:17am
JPS3L:
Just out of curiosity, what do hab claims have to do with the Heller decision?
6.23.2008 11:18am
Bart (mail):
It would be sweet to have Justice Scalia write a comprehensive opinion laying out the historical basis for the individual right and suggesting in dicta the scope of that right. Perhaps the reason for the delay in the decision are negotiations on what will be written in the parts of the Court opinion which Kennedy and perhaps Roberts will join and those which a Kennedy/Roberts concurrence will attempt to narrow or put off for another day.

I have stayed a felony possession of a firearm case in Colorado state court waiting on this opinion. This charge is based on my client's civil juvenile record, which would not be sufficient to deny other civil rights, but has been permitted because of the Miller case. It would be very helpful to have Scalia suggest or actually hold that the Second Amendment applies to the states for my motion to dismiss.
6.23.2008 11:21am
Brett Bellmore:

what do hab claims have to do with the Heller decision?


They're related by somebody's conviction that the 14th amendment doesn't incorporate ANYTHING. Otherwise, nothing.
6.23.2008 11:23am
Happyshooter:
I suspect the right will stand independently of military purpose to protect self-defense, hunting, and shooting sports, and may ironicly limit its nexus to a military purpose to uphold the federal ban on machione guns, etc.

I disagree. Any reading of a personal right to bear arms in any militia response/military small arms sense must include the M-16A3/M-4 family of rifles and the M9A1 family of pistols. Both are in common, universal issue to the military as personal small arms.

The rifle is select fire and the pistol holds 16 rounds. Both are things that the government really dislikes for a person to have.

The only way they justify not allowing ownership and bearing of those exact weapons is to totally rewrite the 2nd to exclude effective arms. That requires changing the entire meaning, perhaps to a collective right.
6.23.2008 11:23am
Henry679 (mail):
"Just out of curiosity, what do hab claims have to do with the Heller decision?"

Nothing, but some people just can't let go of the hysteria-monging.
6.23.2008 11:26am
JPS3L:
I doubt the opinion will reach the incorporation issue to apply the 2nd Amendment to the states since DC is a federal enclave. However, you may well get some strong language from Scalia stating that this is a fundemental liberty interest akin to the other personal liberties enshrined in the Bill of Rights. I also expect that, given Kennedy's statements at oral argument, Miller will be defenestrated. Thus, while you may need to wait for a challenge to Chicago's ban for the incorporation issue to be decided, I suspect a Scalia opinion will jettison Miller and declare a strong / fundemental libtery interest in the right to keep and bear arms.
6.23.2008 11:27am
Roger Schlafly (www):
Seven cases remain. Scalia could be writing the majority opinion in any of the seven.
6.23.2008 11:28am
advisory opinion:
Can you point to the case where . . . a release was authorized?

Even assuming that everyone at GITMO is a terrorist, something the military has never come close to saying, where is this case that releases them?


Notice of ruling directing release in Parhat v. Gates, pending a CSRT review "consistent with the court's opinion":

"Pursuant to the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005, the
court held invalid a decision of a Combatant Status Review Tribunal that petitioner Huzaifa Parhat is an enemy combatant. The court directed the government to release or to transfer Parhat, or to expeditiously hold a new Tribunal consistent with the court's opinion. The court also stated that its disposition was without prejudice to Parhat's right to seek release immediately
through a writ of habeas corpus in the district court, pursuant to the Supreme Court's decision in Boumediene v. Bush, No. 06-1195, slip op. at 65-66 (U.S. June 12, 2008)."
6.23.2008 11:29am
NI:

The fact that they can bring a habeas claim means they will be released. They will kill more American troops. We will be more likely to lose the war. That is just fine with the lefties on the court, they can lose the Boosh War and the only people dying are the military from the lower classes anyway. Win/win.


That is one possible scenario. Another is that the Bush administration will quit playing cutesy with semantics and acknowledge that they are prisoners of war, in which case they aren't entitled to habeas. Of course, the administration would then have to stop torturing them, which is why it didn't want them classified as POWs in the first place, but they can't have it both ways.
6.23.2008 11:30am
Sarcastro (www):
It should be clear to everybody that the Court is trying for a Judicial Coup! All the signs are there. After allying with Terror, it will now strip is of our guns in 2 days time. The Court will choose "hump day" in the hope that average Joe will be dispirited and not notice the decision.

Next term there will be a very low-key, not well-covered decision allowing each Justice to have a personal militia, and then they STRIKE!
6.23.2008 11:35am
Henry679 (mail):
"Another is that the Bush administration will quit playing cutesy with semantics and acknowledge that they are prisoners of war, in which case they aren't entitled to habeas. Of course, the administration would then have to stop torturing them, which is why it didn't want them classified as POWs in the first place, but they can't have it both ways."

But reclassification would likely expose the guilty parties (ours) to even more liability for their misdeeds over the past 6 years.

Either way, I don't see a lot of international travel in the future of Bush &Co. in the not too distant future.
6.23.2008 11:37am
advisory opinion:
Quite right, this Supreme court ruling that upsets so many releases nobody, unless the government can't produce a good reason for holding them.

What's the standard for "good"? Hearsay is good enough in the military context. What's the standard for a civilian court without military expertise making a military judgement call? Given that the opinion itself will surely be heavily redacted, I'm not sure one can tell if any given ruling is sound on the merits. It reduces to "trust the courts' military expertise."
6.23.2008 11:40am
Paul Milligan (mail):
I doubt they play the 'incorporation - maybe yes maybe no' game. They know damned well they are not deciding merely for 'federal enclaves', and it would be pretty sad if they chickened out like that, which in effect moots Heller for 95 % of us, and punts the whole issue down the road.
6.23.2008 11:41am
Jay S. (www):
I have little doubt that Heller will win the case. Whether such a ruling does anything for us who believe in an "absolute" right to keep and bear arms is unclear. Just as there are restrictions on the first and fourth amendments, we expect politicians to attempt to restrict our rkba. Even if Heller wins, an opinion does nothing to keep the federal government out of the business of determining what mechanical and cosmetic features a gun may have. The majority could issue an order, but that is unlikely to occur.

(By "absolute" rkba I mean: rkba without restrictions on caliber, weapon style, intended weapon purpose, mechanical or cosmetic features of the weapon, etc.)

Additionally, there is the issue of Presser v. Illinois to address. This case rules that the Second Amendment is not binding to the states. To me, this implies that unless a Heller decision explicitly overturns Presser, it may still be ambiguous whether the Second Amendment can hold up to a "states rights" argument for restrictions on the RKBA (consider California for instance).

One may be inclined to argue my statement on the grounds that if Heller rules that the Second Amendment applies to DC, then surely it applies to Chicago, L.A., etc. However, we must remember that DC's "backup argument" - that the Second Amendment not applying to DC because DC is a federal city - could work both ways: municipalities such as Chicago and states such as California may be inclined to argue on that same basis if the Heller decision does not preempt such an argument.

Unfortunately, there is little support for the notion that Heller will be a "cure-all" for us. It is a positive sign for the citizens of DC. While precedent and contemporaneous sources affirm that the Second Amendment provides an individual right, such sources also provide for the state and federal regulation of those rights. While those of us who believe in the "spirit" of the rights may continue to fight for an "absolute" interpretation - ie. legislation free of bans on certain cosmetic of mechanical features - there is little hope that the need to fight will ever end, or that the fight will ease up. The fight will become harder and harder as those who do not understand that "firearms don't kill, people do" continue to drum up fear in the public about the frightful "assault" weapons, "cop killer" bullets, and "heat seeking" rounds. Additionally, with a socialist-dominated white house and congress for the next 4+ years, it is likely that we will see a left/right imbalance in the SCOTUS again, as well as a quickly-passed reauthorization of the 1994 AWB.
6.23.2008 11:43am
zippypinhead:
Since everyone else is engaged in idle speculation about who was assigned the majority opinion, I think I'll wade into the swamp as well.

I would be surprised if Scalia was assigned the job of drafting the majority opinion, notwithstanding Scotusblog's statistical inference. And if he was, that's not necessarily a good thing from the standpoint of getting the Court to articulate a clear standard of general applicability in this case.

Beyond the threshold question of the existence of an individual RKBA, Justice Scalia's views on issues like standard of review are likely to be more absolutist than all but at most 2 other Justices (Thomas and perhaps Alito). Or at least that is how I parsed the oral argument. And Scalia is not known for pulling his punches in the interest of consensus. So if he writes for the Court, I would expect a majority to join the bare holding striking down DC's laws (assuming they don't simply remand for further proceedings), but with 4 or more Justices only joining the reasoning of "section I" of a Scalia opinion, laying out a basic individual right. After that, I would expect significant fracturing on what if any standard of review should be applied, the future viability of the Miller test, etc. And that would not bode well for anyone seeking to cleanly apply the Heller ruling in the next Second Amendment case.

A Kennedy or Roberts opinion, IMHO, would be more likely to garner an absolute majority for something beyond the theoretical individual right question. The tradeoff, however, is that I doubt you would see the majority applying strict scrutiny (or perhaps articulating any broadly applicable standard of review at all).

We'll see...
6.23.2008 11:48am
Eugene Volokh (www):
Roger Schlafly: There's only one case left from the March sitting, Justice Scalia hasn't written any majority opinions from that sitting, and generally speaking each Justice gets at least one majority opinion per sitting. That's why people are guessing that Justice Scalia is writing the majority in this one.
6.23.2008 11:52am
private:
MRSquared wrote,

If "individual right" is a unanimous holding, it will be quite a repudiation of all of the law school con-law professors who have long clinged to this view to justify their policy preferences.


Reminds me of an exam by an torts prof back in law school. The man was rabidly anti-RKBA. He wrote an essay question that was hoping for an answer dealing with strict liability. As I recall, question was something like this: "City of Imagination in state of Unreal has a law that says ugly guns absolutely and positively are illegal to possess. Bad guy breaks into house of Mr. Brown, steals the ugly gun that Mr. Brown illegally possessed. Bad guy then shoots pretty little girl two blocks away as she innocently plays in the park. Parents of pretty little girl sue Mr. Brown. Discuss."

The gist of my answer was that little girl's parents might win at a local level based on the law setting the standard of "safety," but that Mr. Brown would ultimately get any decision thrown out because the law itself was unconstitutional. Then I explained why the law was unconstitituional. ... Hey, we all were 1st years at one time. :-) ... I also explained in my answer that professor had some gun terms wrong in his question. Talk about 1st year stupidity.

Let us hope that the decision in Heller explains some things to a certain set of law school profs.
6.23.2008 11:55am
Happyshooter:
Then I explained why the law was unconstitituional. ... Hey, we all were 1st years at one time. :-) ... I also explained in my answer that professor had some gun terms wrong in his question. Talk about 1st year stupidity.

First year at University of Michigan Law I was in Pete Westen's class, and he kept using an example of the evil US military using a Claymore Mine to blow up a bridge and plunge children into the river to die.

I finally corrected him. (The claymore is a shaped container on short stilts with explosive in the back and metal bits in the front. Upon firing it has the effect of a giant shotgun shot in a given direction.)

You would have thought I attacked every article he ever written, insulted his faith, and kicked his dog.

I was wrong, I was wrong in every way, and I was rude for even suggesting he could be wrong. Thank goodness for blind grading in that class.
6.23.2008 12:01pm
Per Son:
Last tangent.

Happyshooter. Since when did habeus equate to letting a prisoner free? That is a new one on me.

Back to topic. Can I make one request to everyone? Please, read the entire opinion before going on about agreement and disagreement with it. That goes on here a bit much.

The decision will be available at www.scotusblog.com the quickest usually.
6.23.2008 12:01pm
CharleyCarp (mail):
One more off-topic: Parhat isn't a habeas case, it's a DTA case. That's the remedy advanced by the Administration. Release of this opinion (end of the week??) could be a very big deal as well: if Judge Sentelle and Griffith find that there's no such thing as a war on "terror" but instead a war as exactly described in the AUMF, those already unhinged will get more so. Tell it to John Marshall, who might have gone the other way in Little v. Barreme.
6.23.2008 1:06pm
Railroad Gin:
If Texas were sending people to death row without a jury trial or Seattle had banned the Catholic Church, we wouldn't have these shenanigans. This whole thing is frustrating. Does a federal city's complete ban on civilan ownership of handguns in the home violate the Constitution?

Yes - next case.

When we get to the machine gun case, the licensing case or the incorporation case I fully expect the 70 page opinion with 3 concurrences joining in this part but not that part. But this one is a no-brainer.

If oral argument is any guide, its reasonably clear what to expect:

Stevens and Souter - Its about the national guard
Ginsburg and Breyer - There's an individual right, but the law doesn't violate it (or we should remand for fact-finding)
Roberts/Alito - There's an individual right, this law violates it under any standard of review and we won't decide what that is.
Kennedy - There's an individual right, this law violates it and the standard of review is some sort of intermediate scrutiny/rational basis hybrid which will conveniently make me the swing vote in future second amendment cases.
Scalia/Thomas -There's an individual right, the law violates it, something like strict scrutiny applies, and strong dicta indicating it should be incorporated

The only holdup is the extent to which they can find some agreement on dicta hinting where they stand on full autos, felon in possession, etc.

The first truly interesting case will be when they get around to NYC's licensing scheme.
6.23.2008 1:10pm
jesse (mail):
NI:

Another is that the Bush administration will quit playing cutesy with semantics and acknowledge that they are prisoners of war, in which case they aren't entitled to habeas. Of course, the administration would then have to stop torturing them, which is why it didn't want them classified as POWs in the first place, but they can't have it both ways.


Argh, this is completely off-topic and I apologize, but this really needs to be corrected.

If the Bush Administration were to reclassify them as POWs, they would be breaking the Geneva Convention, not following it. The Geneva Convention explictly lays out requirements that combatants must meet in order to be classified as POWs. Just being captured on the battlefield is not enough and to extend the protections for POWs to combatants who do not meet the requirements to be classified as POWs weakens the Geneva Convention and makes it less likely to be followed in the future.

That is all. Please resume DC v. Heller speculation.
6.23.2008 1:35pm
Sensible Lawyer (mail):
The gist of my answer was that little girl's parents might win at a local level based on the law setting the standard of "safety," but that Mr. Brown would ultimately get any decision thrown out because the law itself was unconstitutional. Then I explained why the law was unconstitituional. ... Hey, we all were 1st years at one time. :-) ... I also explained in my answer that professor had some gun terms wrong in his question. Talk about 1st year stupidity.

Hey, perhaps some profs need repudiation.
6.23.2008 2:02pm
Sensible Lawyer (mail):
There's only one case left from the March sitting, Justice Scalia hasn't written any majority opinions from that sitting, and generally speaking each Justice gets at least one majority opinion per sitting. That's why people are guessing that Justice Scalia is writing the majority in this one.

That would explain Kennedy's vote in Boumediene. He just had to be in the spotlight this term!
6.23.2008 2:04pm
Tony Tutins (mail):
Dean Chemerinsky will have to put out a new edition of his casebook, because the one we used poops all over the Second Amendment.

Allowing a habeas claim by a enemy prisoner of war, an unlawful combatant at that, in the middle of a war releases the combatant back to the field to kill again.

While off-topic, this is an instructive example of "begging the question". Allowing a habeas claim releases no one. If habeas corpus review works properly, non-enemy combatants will be released while enemy combatants will be retained.

this really needs to be corrected.

Indeed, the following assertion needs to be corrected forthwith: If the Bush Administration were to reclassify them as POWs, they would be breaking the Geneva Convention, not following it. The Geneva Convention explictly lays out requirements that combatants must meet in order to be classified as POWs.

Nope. Those who are not treated as POWs must be treated as civilians. See the commentary to Part I : General provisions of Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.: It may, nevertheless, seem rather surprising that a humanitarian Convention should tend to protect spies, saboteurs or irregular combatants. Those who take part in the struggle while not belonging to the armed forces are acting deliberately outside the laws of warfare. Surely they know the dangers to which they are exposing themselves. It might therefore have been simpler to exclude them from the benefits of the Convention, if such a course had been possible, but the terms espionage, sabotage, terrorism, banditry and intelligence with the enemy, have so often been used lightly, and applied to such trivial offences (2), that it was not advisable to leave the accused at the mercy of those detaining them.
6.23.2008 2:43pm
PersonFromPorlock:
Happyshooter:

I also feel a lot worse about this decision after five members of the court flat out made up new law in deciding to release terrorists to kill more military members in the middle of a war.

I really doubt that's a good summary but even if it is, the Justices' oath - and for that matter, the military members' osth - is to defend the Constitution, not the lives of our troops.

The habeas claim is a criminal case claim, not something you could ever use in a war.

Actually, no. The government imprisons you and refuses to say why or let you go - no criminal charge at all. That's prime territory for a habeas claim.
6.23.2008 2:53pm
ClosetLibertarian (mail):
Tony Tutins,

Presumably civilians who are not POWs can then be tried (posibly by military courts). None of the prisoners now captured can be POWs since there is no longer an international armed conflict but an occupation.
6.23.2008 3:19pm
Happyshooter:
Presumably civilians who are not POWs can then be tried (posibly by military courts).

Unlawful combatants, under the law of land warfare, can be shot out of hand by the commander.

Example: Post WWII Werewolves who were captured got summary field military hearings and were shot by American forces.

Under the Supremes new rule, they would get airlifted to the states, along with every witness and member of the capturing unit, to stand federal trial for some crime...or more likely would be released for lack of an arrest warrant.
6.23.2008 4:29pm
David Schwartz (mail):
Happyshooter:

The justification for military tribunals and holding without charges was always that it was required by military necessity and expediency. It was never that we couldn't trust the courts or the courts wouldn't do the right thing. How long have these guys been held now? One cannot argue with a straight face that expediency prohibits court hearings.

If you can't trust the criminal courts, the country isn't worth defending.
6.23.2008 4:37pm
SIG357:
if Judge Sentelle and Griffith find that there's no such thing as a war on "terror" but instead a war as exactly described in the AUMF

Because nothing "is" until some judge somewhere "finds" it. You people need to get over yourselves. The law is a make believe world.
6.23.2008 5:22pm
SIG357:
The government imprisons you and refuses to say why or let you go - no criminal charge at all. That's prime territory for a habeas claim.


It is, if you're an American.
6.23.2008 5:24pm
Happyshooter:
1. I can't think of a single judge qualifed to make military decisions.

2. Our current criminal law system is set up for professional investigators dealing with single or a few criminals in civilized areas. No way is it designed for military field use.

3. Many of our judges are simply unable to make good decisions, either because of lack of judgment or politics. They simply cannot be trusted to make military decisions.

4. The second time an enlisted man sees the same enemy he captured back to kill him again, is the last person he captures.

5. If judges become rulers of the military, then they are the rulers of all American society. I don't like nobles, and I don't care to be ruled by them.

6. I think America is worth defending, an America ruled by federal district court judges will not hold.

7. I have never met a judge who can run important operations. I have never met one I would trust to run the city water supply, much less defend my family.
6.23.2008 5:27pm
Sarcastro (www):
Just to expand on Happyshooter's totally sane points:

1. Judges have never made decisions with military implications before!

3. Gitmo is the military field because the military field is the entire world!

3. Soldiers always make good decisions, while most Judges are evil homosexuals who want to destroy America.

4. AlQueda has harnessed cloning technology!

5. The moment the Military comes under Civilian control is the moment America ceases to be the land of the free.

6. America is so Awesome that it is better it become a Military dictatorship than experience another 9-11.

7. Judges are all godless Muslim homo drug addicts and should be shot by soliders. For the good of America.
6.23.2008 5:38pm
CDR D (mail):
If the prognosticators are correct in saying Scalia gets a shot at writing the Heller opinion because of some customary deference...

***(There's only one case left from the March sitting, Justice Scalia hasn't written any majority opinions from that sitting, and generally speaking each Justice gets at least one majority opinion per sitting.)*** EV


...I wouldn't necessarily assume that the opinion will be all that friendly to the pro-2A side. Unless Scalia has changed his mind since the publication of his book "A Matter of Opinion" (1997), his view of the 2A will have no effect on state laws. i.e. "Of course, properly understood, it is no limitation upon arms control by the states."
6.23.2008 6:15pm
Russ (mail):
Per son said:

Can you point to the case where any terrorists were released, or a release was authorized?

example

This is just the beginning.
6.23.2008 7:46pm
Tony Tutins (mail):
If Scalia does not find an individual right to keep and bear arms in the 2nd Amendment, he is neither a textualist nor an originalist.


Russ said:

Per son said:

Can you point to the case where any terrorists were released, or a release was authorized?

example


This fails as an example:

1. It's not an example of a terrorist being released.
2. The military has not shown that the detainee is a terrorist.
3. Release is but one of three possible actions that the military can take. From the linked CNN article:

A brief one-page order from the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington directed military officials to either "release or transfer Parhat, or to expeditiously hold a new [military] tribunal."

As I understand this, when the military has neglected due process they can yet supply it.
6.23.2008 9:18pm
TDPerkins (mail):
jesse wrote:


If the Bush Administration were to reclassify them as POWs, they would be breaking the Geneva Convention, not following it.


And as Tony Tutins beclowns himself to show, the pro-terrorists know what the Geneva conventions really meant even if they aren't written that way.

Tony, I must presume from your ignorant high dudgeon that you would impeach Washington for hanging Major Andre?

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, &pfpp
6.23.2008 9:19pm
TDPerkins (mail):
To briefly visit the topic of the thread, I strongly second the speculation that Scalia will write the majority in Heller. I make no speculation as to when it will be released, and I predict there will be as many as five opinions.

There's my 2 mils (inflation, don'tcha know).

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, &pfpp
6.23.2008 9:24pm
Tony Tutins (mail):
TDP: The Geneva Conventions permit accused spies to be tried by "properly constituted, non-political, military courts," and to be punished with death. However, while awaiting trial they must be humanely treated, provided medical attention, and allowed to receive visits from a chaplain. Torture and reprisals are forbidden.
6.23.2008 9:50pm
TDPerkins (mail):
Tony, the Geneva Conventions permit unlawful combatants to be shot dead with no appeal after conviction by quite expedient--even instant--evaluation by a competent authority. Congress gave that authority to the military. The SCOTUS is indulging in a very quiet constitutional crisis by ignoring the power of Congress to strip the SCOTUS of its jurisdiction WRT to matters military (and almost every other matter, FWIW).

The guarantees against torture apply solely to POWs and civilians, which an unlawful combatant is not, and just what reprisals do you are imagine are at issue?

The persons taken and held at Guantanamo can be lawfully held for rest of their natural lives, or until no imams of consequence call for the destruction of the West. That's the war the enemy picked, and habeus claims are not properly the privilege of unlawful combatants or POWS.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, &pfpp
6.23.2008 10:01pm
Per Son:
Russ:

You pointed to a case under the DTA where there was not a shred of evidence that the detainee was a terrorist. Ironically, the DTA is the system that the Administration set up.

I asked for evidence where terrorists have been released, and instead, you showed me a news article that said:

"A brief one-page order from the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington directed military officials to either "release or transfer Parhat, or to expeditiously hold a new [military] tribunal."

Bad show mate.
6.23.2008 10:07pm
Corkie the Dog (www):

his view of the 2A will have no effect on state laws. i.e. "Of course, properly understood, it is no limitation upon arms control by the states."


When I was in law school about 12 years ago, Scalia visited us and made himself available for a Q&A session with the students. One of the questions was about the Second Amendment. His answer was roughly "You don't have to worry about us applying it against the states...". I don't know if this was his own legal view, or rather a prediction of how the SCOTUS would act.

Sincerely,
Corkie the Dog
6.23.2008 11:00pm
David E. Young (mail) (www):
Regarding Heller: It is certainly possible that the decision will be announced this week. It is also possible it will be much delayed.

In the U.S. vs Emerson case, the decision was considerably delayed because the majority justices decided to extensisvely study the source documents in The Origin of the Second Amendment, which is the only complete collection of period sources on the subject. The justices of the Supreme Court have the same reason to delay and look at the sources as the justices of the Fifth Circuit did in Emerson. Also, unlike the Emerson case, ORIGIN has been extensively cited to the court in various briefs by legal professionals on both sides in the Heller case. The justices of the Supreme Court are faced with entirely conflicting arguments about history and meaning from presumably reliable entities just as the Emerson justices were. This case is much too important for them not to determine which side, if any, the historical sources support or contradict.

The fact is that the historical sources, which are extensive, clear, and complete, directly contradict those supporting Washington DC's gun control laws. To better understand why this is so, take a look at my short article criticizing the amicus brief supporting DC's gun laws filed by fifteen professional academic historians and legal scholars. It is entitled, Why DC's Gun Law is Unconstitutional, and is located at the History News Network:
http://hnn.us/articles/47238.html

It is entirely possible that publication of the Heller decision will simply be put off until all of the justices who are sincerely interested in understanding the Founders' intentions have studied the period sources. Being familiar with this historical material and the fact that its existence has been repeatedly brought to the attention of the justices, I predict at least a 7-2 or possibly even a unanimous win for Heller. I also suspect the decision will be delayed well beyond June.
6.24.2008 1:34am
Sam Draper (mail):
Regarding application of the RKBA to the states, it seems like the 2nd amendment was aimed more squarely at 'militia' purposes (defense against foreign nations and federal tyranny), while the concerns that lead to the adoption of the 14th amendment were more centered around individual self-defense (from the KKK). Should the scope of the right conferred by each amendment be different because they were adopted for different reasons?

Scalia has rejected incorporation of the 2nd amendment in the past, but there has been a lot of scholarship published since he formed his opinions. I understand that this what changed Bork's mind on the RKBA. Scalia IMHO is more open minded than Bork.
6.24.2008 11:16am
Tony Tutins (mail):
TDP: From where do you get your understanding of the Geneva Conventions? I'm using www.icrc.org

Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907.
Part I : General provisions
ARTICLE 5

Where, in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention as would, if exercised in the favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such State.
Where in occupied territory an individual protected person is detained as a spy or saboteur, or as a person under definite suspicion of activity hostile to the security of the Occupying Power, such person shall, in those cases where absolute military security so requires, be regarded as having forfeited rights of communication under the present Convention.
In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity, and in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention. They shall also be granted the full rights and privileges of a protected person under the present Convention at the earliest date consistent with the security of the State or Occupying Power, as the case may be.

ANNEX TO THE CONVENTION : Regulations respecting the laws and customs of war on land #Section II : Hostilities #Chapter II : Spies
Art. 30. A spy taken in the act shall not be punished without previous trial.
6.24.2008 1:51pm
Ohioan (mail):
With all due respect, am I the only one here who has noticed that we are not actually at war? The men held in Cuba may be enemy combatants captured on the battlefield. But they cannot possibly be POW's because we are not at war. First, only Congress has the power to declare war, and Congress has not done so. Congress wrote the president a blank check, literally and figuratively, to conduct military operations any way he saw fit after 911 as long as they didn't have to get their hands dirty and actually make any decisions or take any responsibility. But they stopped short of declaring war on anybody. All they did was authorize military operations.

Second, how can you declare war on terror? Terror is an emotion. That phrase irritates me no end. "War on Terror" is as ludicrous a piece of mindless propaganda as anything I have ever heard. We are fighting Islamic radical terrorists, not Terror itself. But the administration is understandably reluctant to call a spade a spade in this case, so it babbles instead.

You can't declare war on a religion. You can't declare war on a group of outlaw bandit murderers. You declare war on political entities. Ergo, we are NOT at war.
6.24.2008 5:23pm
CDR D (mail):
>>>But they stopped short of declaring war on anybody. All they did was authorize military operations.



Help me out here.

Where can I find something in law which prescribes the exact form a declaration of war must be, and where it specifies that "war" can only be undertaken against political entities, whether governmentally organized or not?

Was the military operation Congress authorized against Saddam's government a war?

Was the military operation Congress authorized against the Taliban government in Afghanistan a war?

I know President Truman tried to call the operation in Korea a "police action" authorized by the UN.

What exact words does Congress have to use? What did they use to authorize the military action in 1861?
6.24.2008 6:04pm
CDR D (mail):
Let me add another question.

If an NGO (such as Al Qaeda), declares "war" on a recognized sovereign nation, and carries out an act of war against that nation, does the sovereign nation just ignore it because the NGO is not a member of the community of nations?

How Victorian that seems to be.
6.24.2008 6:18pm
CDR D (mail):
Let me further say, I apologize for taking the bait in the hi-jacking of this thread, which was supposed to be about Heller.

I suspect the decision will endorse some kind of individual right, and yet (suaviter in modo, fortiter in modo), affirm the opinions in Cruickshank and Presser, "...is not a right granted by the Constitution. Neither is it in any manner dependent upon that instrument for its existence. The Second Amendment declares that it shall not be infringed, but this, as has been seen, means no more than it shall not be infringed by Congress."
6.24.2008 6:38pm
kar_kimba (mail):
I don't understand how the Court can render any long-lasting opinion on the 2nd Amendement in the Heller case. The 2nd Amendment literally speaks of a state-regulated milita, but DC is not a state. I think this case is more about delineation of state and federal powers. I wonder if we will see any dissenting opinions to this regard.
6.25.2008 7:18pm
CDR D (mail):
>>>The 2nd Amendment literally speaks of a state-regulated milita


<<<

No, it quite literally speaks of a well regulated militia...it does not say "state" regulated...

...regulated... you know, like my wall clock sez...

...ain't no government Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Wall Clocks that I know of.
6.25.2008 8:58pm
TDPerkins (mail):

Ergo, we are NOT at war.


If Congress says it will foot the bill for the military to go get someone, we're at war.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, &pfpp
6.25.2008 9:40pm