The Dallas Morning News reports:
[At a] special meeting about Dallas County traffic tickets[,] ... [c]ounty commissioners were discussing problems with the central collections office that is used to process traffic ticket payments and handle other paperwork normally done by the JP Courts.
Commissioner Kenneth Mayfield, who is white, said it seemed that central collections "has become a black hole" because paperwork reportedly has become lost in the office.
Commissioner John Wiley Price, who is black, interrupted him with a loud "Excuse me!" He then corrected his colleague, saying the office has become a "white hole."
That prompted Judge [apparently a Justice of the Peace -EV] Thomas Jones, who is black, to demand an apology from Mayfield for his racially insensitive analogy.
Mayfield shot back that it was a figure of speech and a science term.
More from Dallas Morning News columnist Steve Blow: Though Commissioner Price says that it wasn't supposed to be a big deal, and that "it’s unfortunate that Judge Thomas escalated things by asking for an apology,"
Mr. Price isn’t backing down from his initial comment. He said a racially sensitive person seeks to avoid using “black” in its many negative forms.
Mr. Blow rightly condemns Commissioner Price's position ("this kind of hypersensitivity to language really has become counterproductive to racial progress"), but goes on to say: "As a white person, I probably can’t fathom what it’s like for the color of your own skin to be synonymous with -— to quote from the The Synonym Finder -- evil, dirty, criminal, satanic, corrupt, sinister, disgraceful, foul, ghastly." But that's not what "black" in "black hole" represents; rather, it's "black" in the sense of, well, not yielding any light.
And as to Commissioner Price's riposte, quoted by Mr. Blow -- "There are always other terms to use, Mr. Price said, even for black hole. 'He could have just said "a file 13."'" -- well, yes, he could have, if he didn't want to be understood (at least by civilians).
I should note that it's possible that, in some situations, someone may use "black hole" to deliberately insult blacks, just as in some contexts you can use any innocent term with a facial expression, intonation, or contextual cue that makes the term into an insult. But nothing in the explanation from Commissioner Price suggests that this was happening here. For something in a similar vein, see the master/slave saga, discussed here, here, and here, plus the slavishly microbrouhaha. And, of course, who could forget the objection to "big bang" being "offputting to young women" in astronomy (see CNN, June 14, 1993, also quoted online here)?
"who could forget the objection to "big bang" being "offputting to young women""
Me, it would appear.
Now, were this a council meeting in Calcutta, maybe construing "black hole" as offensive wouldn't be so absurd, but Dallas is not in India.
I hope it doesn't turn into a black mark on his record and that he doesn't get blacklisted.
*...Oops!*
And how does that help?
A "County Judge" in Texas is not a justice of the peace; he's the head of the commissioners court of the county. In other states (I'm familiar with California), the commissioners court would be called the county board of supervisors, and the judge is equivalent to the chairman of that board. However, the judge position is a separate position, and not rotated among the board members.
Lighten up, grow up, get mature - the best (not necessarily complimentary) Jewish and Polish jokes I've heard were told to me by Jews and Poles, respectively....
Neither is true.
Struthius: I said "justice of the peace" because that was what the columnist (Steve Blow) called him; was he mistaken?
I am gravely disappointed in Mr. Price's lack of knowledge regarding cosmological terms. A dark day indeed.
Apparently there used to be a term "collapsar" (this is proper Russian) wich is a direct derivative of "collapsed star" (see here). It was used to designate an object similar but not exactly like a "black hole". It is now listed as obsolete for such usage. I have had sufficiently unsheltered periods but never heard "black hole" used in an obscene way. Now, the Russian equivalent of "black ass" is quite another story.
On the other hand, in languages like English, German and some others, "hole" is part of a common vulgar word for backside (asshole, Arschloch, etc.), yet this does not affect the scientific term there. Russian, on the contrary, has an all-purpose one-word vulgarity completely unambiguous and unrelated to "hole" which is quite satisfactory for vulgar uses.
Heaven only knows what would have happened if someone brought up dark matter.
Theobromophile: What kind of lefties? Though I should add that we Slavs don't get upset at "slave."
In this context, "discussion about race" means that white people are expected to STFU and submit to a well deserved scolding-without-end. I didn't realize there was any lack of clarity about that.
My normal apology in a situation like that would be: "I'm truly sorry that you were born an imbecile...but that isn't my fault, and I can't fix that".
Black body! Another racial slur hidden there in the physics of collapsed stars. How about African-American body? No good too sexually suggestive. What are we to do?
That is, it's a look what they're ranting about now story.
Columnist Blow's first sentence makes a good point. His second isn't entirely accurate. Despite its scientific origins, "black hole" does have negative connotations when used outside the field of science, as it was here. It wasn't a good thing that the papers disappeared, was it?
So is it entirely innocent, a matter of fortuity, that "black" connotes all these negative images in our language while "white" is pretty much synonymous with the pure, the pristine, the angelic, the beautiful, that, basically, black is bad while white is good? Even if it is entirely fortuitous, since the English language is so rich, should we nevertheless take the small amount of effort required to avoid words that we know might give rise to offense--as a matter of courtesy?
I remember being a bit surprised decades ago on reading an opinion by Justice Douglas using the word niggardly although I knew what it meant.
In the Seventies in Los Angeles, a leftist legal collective actually used the name Bar Sinister.
Forgive me, but the vast array of things some boob (oops) could possibly take offense includes a signifigant proportion of the english language.
There was once this fellow who outlined an idea of controlling language on that scale, pruning out 'bad' language that really wasn't viewed as 'necessary'.
He called it doublespeak.
Start by having the conversation with the people who want to talk, and ignoring the people who don't.
Life is a blog comment thread, and Price is a troll. Just like we can have pleasant and informative debates here, we can have a discussion about race in America.
Watch what you say there, as the other name for white dwarfs is degenerate dwarfs. Physicists are clearly equal opportunity racists.
I think that this is the idea - a monologue. To some people, it's a feature, not a bug.
Except that in life, such trolls can cause you to lose your job, thus causing actual hardship. That makes his comments much more serious than a blog comment thread where you can hide behind pseudonyms.
But the "slave/slav" derivation is a folk etymology, nyet?
Forgive me, but the vast array of things some boob (oops) could possibly take offense includes a signifigant proportion of the english language.
Perhaps so, but my comment didn't suggest avoiding everything a boob might regard as offensive, but only avoiding what you know might give rise to offense. Still, I suppose the minimal effort required for this excursion into good manners is too strenuous for some. And I imagine some like giving offense and that even more don't care whether they do.
But the point of the Dallas situation seems to be that many times you don't know what might cause offense until it does, and then it's too late. So "minimal effort" amounts to nothing when you are unaware of the forbidden vocabulary.
no, but...
I sometimes tell people I am ambisinistrous, not ambidextrous for that reason. Dextrous= right, coordinated, etc. sinistrous meaning left, bad, etc.
But ambidextrous means with two RIGHT hands. I don't have two right hands, I have two left hands, I tell them since everybody knows people in their RIGHT mind are left handed
or something
At my work, we had a supervisor (since retired) who created an order not to use the term "white out" because it was offensive. the term is "correction fluid"
Somebody should actually point out to this Price moron that black holes are immensely powerful and have such force that even light cannot escape. If anything, it's a compliment! "Black (hole) POWER!"
Better yet. Tell him he's an idiot
No, it's not a matter of fortuity, it's a matter of visibility. "Black" is bad because it reminds us of the unpleasant condition of being surrounded by blackness, unable to see, and in danger of walking into furniture or falling down the stairs.
If anyone should be upset about these connotations, it's not blacks. It's the blind.
Feminist cows maybe? Or bears who are into bonds?
Probably not necessary. Don't you think by now most of his friends have already clued him in on that, and he simply doesn't care?
Interesting. Did people objected to "joy stick" too?
Did you just use the word "boob"? As a differently-boobed person, I'm very offended. Repent!
Then you have allowed someone else to decide arbitrarily what is or is not permissible for you (or me) to say. Shall we have a national registry of proscribed terms, run by the Department of Political Correctness, maintained by victim group, so you do not err? Cell phone access will be critical. I'm thinking too a system of state and federal Human Rights Commissions can aid in dishing out inappropriate punishments. Just like, um, you know, Canada.
If an office has become a "white hole," that must mean it spews stuff out and never takes anything in. There are probably some government offices to which that applies.
A friend of mine recently took a PR job at a non-profit providing support for battered women, and she was told off for using the phrase "bullet points" within her first week at work — evidently any turn of phrase remotely evoking violence was verboten. She had no idea what phrase to use instead; I gather my own suggestion of "sheep dung" wouldn't have been well received.
****
I heard that some one suggested changing it from "cockpit" to "box office".
1328 or so for the black death in England...
Off topic, but in the early eighties the head OBGYN at San Pedro Hospital owned a white Mercedes with a personalized license plate BOXDOC. Yes, she did.
Better late than never, I suppose. Just checked back on the comments. I hadn't read the linked article, just your excerpts. What I said about county judges in TX is correct, but in this case, Thomas Jones IS a justice of the peace, as you said in your brackets. He is not the county judge of Dallas County.
I believe it is obscene in French, not Russian.
Source, this entertaining book on black holes. The author argues that the man who named "black holes" knew that many people would be offended and did it as a joke.
I propose a mandatory program of torture and beatings applied to all children between 2 and 6, during all daylight hours. After a generation or two of this, small children will pray for the dark to come, and all unfortunate negative connotations of black will be gone…
Seems a small price to pay to address this gross linguistic discrimination and injustice.
Oh, for years I waited in the school drop-off line begind an obstretrical gynecologist. His license, which he had maintained in multiple states, since he was in school in the summer of 1977 was OB1GYNOBY
If he thinks it is racist to say "black hole", it seems to me he's saying it's fine to use "white" in a racist sense (given how he perceives racism.)
Even if he genuinely thought "white hole" was more scientifically accurate, he should have said "Excuse me! You should call it a File 13."
Recent events would have suggested that that bar is set pretty low, but my money's on this guy to slide under it if anyone can.
Reminds of me last week, after I got done using African-American Flag to kill some bugs in my garage, I went over to the establishmant that cannot be named here to play African-American jack, then I went to play that game with playing cards that cannot be talked about here and needing a spade for the nut flush, I yelled out "give me a spade" and the guy from Dallas flipped out on me, saying "give me a cracker."
Never heard of the Slavic roots of "slave." Interesting.
Which lefties, you ask? Ambidextrous ones, like me. ;) To be serious: I've never heard of a leftie complain when "sinister" is used in a negative way. And I would know, because some of my best friends are lefties. ;)
I'm surprised. We're over 60 comments in, and no one has yet to mention the patriarchal underpinnings of the legal lexicon. Briefs? Penal code? (To borrow from Legally Blonde) semester?
My dictionary of Russian obscenities has a reference for something that literally translates as "black suitcase" (which refers to an entirely different part of the body) but nothing for "black hole".
Um... is that a standard part of a personal library?!?
Bob: A) you obviously are not a Dallas resident and B) google John wiley Price Dallas - see how hits you get with his activities.
I object to the use of the word "slavishly" because Exodus says my ancestors were slaves in the land of Egypt.
For anyone who studies Russian, most definitely!
You quickly appreciate that English speakers don't know a thing about swearing. A dictionary of English obscenities would be what, seven words long, with everything else being variations on those seven? Very lame. The Russians, on the other hand, they reeaaaaally know how to swear.
black people can't BE racist, because they don't have power in this patriarchal heterosexist white supremacist male chauvinist imperialist pig society!
that's why!
wimmins at progressive universities are known to hold "ovulars" to avoid the sexist term "seminar"
That reminds me of the old joke, that the Washington Bullets wanted to change their name to something not associated with violence and crime. And so they became The Bullets.
Since you were too busy to google seeBlack Dallas Official Is Acquitted In Tense Trial on Assault Charge
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DiggFacebookMixxYahoo! BuzzPermalinkBy ROBERTO SURO,
Published: May 12, 1992
A jury in Dallas today found a Dallas County Commissioner not guilty of felony assault charges, amid speculation that a guilty verdict might have sparked the kind of racial violence that recently struck Los Angeles.
The commissioner, John Wiley Price, 42 years old, is among the most prominent black elected officials in Dallas, and his lawyers asserted in the two-week trial that his prosecution was racially motivated.
Mr. Price, who frequently leads public protests on racial issues, was accused of breaking the ankle of a construction worker, who is white, during a scuffle outside the Dallas County Administration Building last Aug. 2 shortly after a demonstration that protested hiring practices and news coverage at a television station. Mr. Price said he acted in self-defense. Jurors Report Threats
A previous trial on the same charges ended in a hung jury last December.
As the violence raged in Los Angeles on May 1, three jurors in the Dallas case reported to the court that they had received telephone calls in which they were threatened with death if they returned a guilty verdict. An assistant district attorney, Mike Gillett, told the court he had received a similar threat.
A day earlier testimony had been interrupted when a Dallas City Councilman, Al Lipscomb, who is black, stormed out of the courtroom, saying "racist, racist" in a loud voice, apparently referring to the proceedings.
After these incidents, the prosecutors sought a mistrial, arguing that the jury would be unwilling to convict Mr. Price because of the violence that followed the verdict in the trial of four Los Angeles police officers accused of beating a black motorist, Rodney G. King. Judge James K. Walker of State District Court denied the motion last week.
The makeup of the Dallas jury closely reflected that of the city's population, with five members of minorities. The jurors deliberated for about five hours today before reaching a verdict.
Mr. Price, who in 1984 became the first black elected to the Commissioners Court, a county executive body, has recently faced repeated and highly publicized criminal charges.
In 1990 he pleaded guilty to criminal mischief charges for whitewashing billboards during a protest against alcohol and tobacco advertising in minority neighborhoods. He was convicted in 1991 on criminal mischief charges for damaging the windshield wipers of a van during a protest demonstration. The verdict is now on appeal.
Mr. Price is now under indictment in connection with the rape complaint of a county employee in 1990. He also faces felony mischief charges in an incident in which a television news photographer's camera was damaged in 1990.
In closing arguments on Friday, Mr. Price's lawyer, Billy Ravkind, asserted that his client would not have been prosecuted if he were white. "Race has got everything to do with everything," he said.
Had he been convicted, Mr. Price would have faced up to 10 years in prison, a fine of up to $10,000 and the loss of his Commissioners Court seat.
attached,
In the 1830s, the term "people of color" was commonly used by American courts to refer to Negroes (fully African in ancestry), mulattoes (1/2 and 1/2), quadroons (1/4th black), and octoroons (1/8th black).
I don't have a problem using either black or African-American, depending on what someone prefers to be called. But the real focus of our society needs to be less on terminology and more on real problems. The ignorance shown by this incident is far more of a real problem.
I have started list of "black" things we should avoid in JWP world:
Black Car - aka Car Service in NYC
Black-jack
Blackberry
Blackhead - much worse than a white head
Blackmail - need I saw more
Little Black Book
Black and Tan - my favorite beer concoction and obviously racist
BobDoyle - your attack on Joe was patthetic. Check out Molly Ivins'(not know her right wing views) story of 1996. Is that proof for you?
JWP called Hispanics "Coconuts" because they are brown on the outside and "white" on the inside.
'Black and Tan' does have really bad connotations in Irish-Catholic cirlcles . . .
Didn't know that. What does it refer to besides a beer combination? Are they related?
and what happens to those with more than 1/8th blood? Are they macaroons?
Sounds like he'd have trouble jumping over the world's record limbo-bar.
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