The Volokh Conspiracy

Proposed Changes for the U.S. News Rankings,

from Prof. Jay Brown at The Race to the Bottom. The first post is here, but all five are still on the blog's main page.

Suzy (mail):
Don't the opinions of other faculty and some of the larger law firms factor into the rankings at a high rate? I think the best way to improve the rankings is to reduce that percentage, especially relative to the GPA/LSAT score percentage. Faculty and big law firms are always going to have biases for certain schools and geographical areas that don't accurately reflect the quality of education or opportunities available at different schools, since most of them graduated from and hire others only from certain schools. It's a poor sample for making these judgments.
8.1.2008 3:17pm
Philosopher:
I have exactly the opposite view. The primary reason most students choose one school over another is because of the value a degree from that law school has to prospective employers (law firms, judges, faculty, etc) in the future.

I'd eliminate most "hard" parts of the criteria, like library size (who cares?) and increase the weight of the school's reputation in the overall score. I'd also try to improve the quality of the reputational surveys, which are currently too short.

The factor you seem to think is most important -- the GPA/LSAT of the student body -- is just a proxy for what prior students thought of the prestige of the school. That's not a bad measure, although it's largely dependent on past rankings. It's also less important to most students than what future employers think of the schools they're considering applying to.
8.1.2008 4:20pm
mcallen (mail):
If you want to provide information the students really want, tell them how much graduates make after 2, 5 and 10 years. I'd argue that's the only real measurable value of a law school.

-m
8.1.2008 5:07pm
Justin (mail):
Of course, right now law schools game the system by admitting the worst of their students as "part time" and then converting them to full time after a semester.

So if anything, the US News change will actually improve education in that regard, by getting rid of this silly charade.
8.1.2008 5:25pm
Suzy (mail):
I see both of your points, but the problem is that the vast majority of law students will not ever apply for the kinds of employers whose opinions receive unfair weight in these rankings. In addition, if these employers were exposed to more candidates from other schools, they might be pleasantly surprised. As it is, their sample provides a poor basis for judgment.

Consider schools like Minnesota and Iowa as examples. I'm guessing many of their students stay in the midwest and earn lower salaries than they would on the coasts, but the cost of living is lower so a comparison of salaries is no reflection of their achievement. Fewer of their students probably end up working for the firms or clerking for the judges whose opinions will count in the rankings, but that may have more to do with geography and past rankings than any accurate measure of the quality of the students. When employers or faculty who have less experience with anyone from Minnesota or Iowa are then asked to rank them, are the results a good reflection of the quality?

The opinion of faculty also seems less important than other factors. They themselves tend to come from a relatively small pool of schools, and they know, value, and keep up with that same small pool. I don't see why their opinions are likely to avoid reflecting the biases they came into the profession with.

The rankings do serve the purpose of identifying prestige, if you want to eventually snare that clerkship or work for that big law firm. For the smaller proportion of students who will end up there, I suppose the rankings are useful. The damage of perpetuating this system, though, is that high quality students who attend schools like Iowa and Minnesota suffer when the quality of their education and achievement is not properly recognized by the rankings system. The cycle continues, then, as the same faculty and employers whose opinions matter will continue to believe that those schools aren't quite as good as the others.
8.1.2008 5:28pm
LM (mail):
Suzy,

Minnesota is tied for #22 overall, and is #23 by LSAT. Iowa is #27 overall, and not in the top 40 by LSAT. Doesn't that seem to contradict your thesis?
8.1.2008 8:34pm
Suzy (mail):
I take it you mean because they are already fairly highly ranked? The question is, does that ranking suffer because schools like these don't turn out as many new faculty hires, or send as many graduates to the firms or clerkships that might enhance their national reputations? I'm not trying to argue that LSAT or GPA should be the most important ranking factor. I simply put more stock in those criteria than in the biased opinions of the raters about a school's reputation. Those perceptions are part of a self-perpetuating cycle. I dislike this because it's confusing to many students applying to law school, who are being unduly influenced by factors that may have very little relationship to the quality of legal education they would receive, or to their prospects for career success.
8.4.2008 3:32pm

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