Jewess:

Commenter jgshapiro asks, apropos a recent case that used the term,

A side note, but when is the last time you heard a judge refer to someone as a "Jewess"?

Well, if you do a Westlaw search for the term, the immediately preceding case is In re B.C., 680 N.E.2d 1355 (Ill. 1997), with the following notation in the list of amici (granted, seemingly put there by West Publishing and not by the court):

Gary Feinerman, Mayer, Brown & Platt and Jenner & Block, Chicago, for the American Jewess Congress.

And, yes, it's that way in the printed reporter.

neurodoc:
OK, I'll go first with the tasteless joke...the American Jewess Congress exists to represent the interests of (nah, thought better of it)?
8.14.2008 9:43pm
John (mail):
Are there any bloggesses at VC?
8.14.2008 9:58pm
Edward A. Hoffman (mail):
It would have made more sense to say "American Jewess Congrish".
8.14.2008 10:10pm
jccamp (mail):
Judge Elmer Fudd.

I like Edward's comment.
8.14.2008 10:14pm
neurodoc:
Is "Jewess" something like "Negro," so anachronistic a term as to draw stares to the speaker/writer using it? Though neutral on its face, is there a hint of disparagement or worse when it is employed, as I think there is with "member of the semitic race"? (We looked a house this week listed by a local real estate agency that 50 years ago used to advise that it did not sell to "members of the semitic race." That same company developed the residential neighborhood, Spring Valley, that Nixon lived in as a Congressman.)

Is "actress" similarly anachronistic, though not disparaging? There still are Oscars for "Best Actor" and "Best Actress" aren't there, though Hollywood is generally pretty PC, except of course when there are $$$ to be made from the non-PC.
*****

John, no "bloggesses" among the bones-made members currently listed over to the right under "Contact." I believe that the few "bloggesses" who have blogged here have all been temps guest blogging.
8.14.2008 10:24pm
Jim at FSU (mail):
I'm not sure why the term jewess is offensive as I wasn't around when it was popular. I'm not even sure it is offensive. It probably just sounds weird because it is archaic.

Along similar lines, was there ever such a thing as a negress?

Also, why did negro become a taboo? It was a non-english word that could be used to describe the race. It was in widespread use as a respectful way of referring to what we now call "black." MLK used the word in speeches and the supreme court used it in opinions ("negro railway porters") and no one seems to have objected to this as disrespectful. So what changed?

My main gripe with the current post-negro words is that they are confusing and inaccurate. I can't even count the number of times I have heard dark skinned non-Americans described as "African American." I also don't think "black" is fair either because many races have dark skin and most of them aren't of recent African extraction.

Off topic, yeah. Sorry.
8.14.2008 10:32pm
Sam H (mail):
For what it is worth

Jew·ess (js)
n. Offensive
A Jewish woman or girl.
Usage Note: Like many other English nouns in which the suffix -ess is added to a gender-neutral word to indicate femaleness, the terms Jewess and Negress are now widely regarded as offensive. It is interesting to note that the objection to words formed with the -ess suffix does not apply to words such as Latina and Chicana, whose contrasting forms Latino and Chicano are not gender-neutral but rather refer even in English primarily to males. See Usage Notes at -ess, Latina1.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
8.14.2008 10:38pm
krs:
Might that be a typo?

The American Jewish Congress is an organization I've heard of.

The "American Jewess Congress," however, seems to be something that only exists on this blog and in the court reporter
8.14.2008 10:55pm
krs:
And... after 15 more seconds of reflection, it seems that our host is well aware of that
8.14.2008 10:56pm
Libertarian1 (mail):
<blockquote> Neurodoc wrote: (We looked a house this week listed by a local real estate agency that 50 years ago used to advise that it did not sell to "members of the semitic race." That same company developed the residential neighborhood, Spring Valley, that Nixon lived in as a Congressman.)


</blockquote>

The first home I bought in Short Hills NJ had a restrictive covenant disallowing Jews and Italians. (Jewesses too?) The deed had a large stamp across the face noting that the clause was illegal (unconstitutional?) based on a NJ Supreme Court ruling. The town is now 40% Jewish (?) and 20% Italian (?) so I guess the original developer must be spinning in his grave.
8.14.2008 11:00pm
jgshapiro (mail):

Are there any bloggesses at VC?

I don't recall ever seeing any female conspirators on this blog except for an occasional guest-blogger and EV's sister-in-law, who is now gone from the masthead.

So, EV, aren't there any libertarian-leaning female law professors out there who are opposed to a living constitution and obsessed with their right to own guns? Inquiring minds want to know.
8.14.2008 11:01pm
jgshapiro (mail):

Is "Jewess" something like "Negro," so anachronistic a term as to draw stares to the speaker/writer using it? Though neutral on its face, is there a hint of disparagement or worse when it is employed, as I think there is with "member of the semitic race"?

Pretty much, yes. That is why I was surprised to see it in an opinion circa 2008.

Reminds me of someone I knew in law school using the term "Jew" as a verb, as in "he Jewed me down on the price." I was pretty shocked when I heard it, though I suppose it could be seen as a compliment if you think about it in terms of "hard-bargaining." But still.
8.14.2008 11:06pm
jccamp (mail):
I tried using my Mac's spell checker to see if that's what happened. If I type "Jewis", the spellchecker suggested Jewess. Jewish wasn't a suggestion at all.

Maybe this was an overly tired clerk with fingers faster than his/her brain, proofreading at 3:00 AM.

Glad it wasn't me.
8.14.2008 11:45pm
Eugene Volokh (www):
jgshapiro: Michelle Boardman was one of the original conspirators, back when it was Sasha, Juan Non-Volokh, Michelle, and me. I was glad to have her, and I'd be glad to have her back; but I didn't choose her for her femaleness, and I'm not going to choose future coconspirators for that, either.

As to Jewess, my sense is that (unlike "Jewed") it was never itself pejorative -- it's just one of those now very rare archaicisms (such as "Hebrews") that makes people wonder "Huh, why is he saying that?" It's perceived offensiveness, it seems to me, stems precisely from the inference that the speaker must have an ulterior motive in using such a nonstandard term.
8.14.2008 11:51pm
wuzzagrunt (mail):
8.14.2008 11:59pm
BGates:
Reminds me of someone I knew in law school using the term "Jew" as a verb, as in "he Jewed me down on the price."
I knew an Alex Levin once who used that terminology all the time. Mainly arguing with his dad.

There still are Oscars for "Best Actor" and "Best Actress"
Even that distinction isn't universal in Hollywood. I always found it odd that there's a tendency to refer to both actors and actresses as "actors", I guess out of some sense of feminism (the Guardian does this a lot), by the same sort of people who insist on the awkward "he or she" formulation for pronouns.

I also don't think "black" is fair
You're right. "Blonde" is fair.
8.15.2008 12:08am
Jacob Berlove:
actor→actress, waiter→waitress, therefore blogger→blogress, not "blogess". QED
8.15.2008 12:10am
Jacob Berlove:
*not "bloggess"
8.15.2008 12:11am
jgshapiro (mail):

jgshapiro: Michelle Boardman was one of the original conspirators, back when it was Sasha, Juan Non-Volokh, Michelle, and me. I was glad to have her, and I'd be glad to have her back; but I didn't choose her for her femaleness, and I'm not going to choose future coconspirators for that, either.

I'm not suggesting you would pick someone solely or primarily because they were female. And Michelle must have been before I discovered the site.

Nevertheless, I have always thought it strange that there were no regular contributors to the site that are women, at least since I have been reading it which is going on 2-3 years.

And just as a casual observation, it seems unlikely that picking libertarians, or however you would define the underlying theme of the site, you would come up with 18 men and no women at the same time. That is a lot of contributors to all be of one sex. (Ironically, when you had 4 contributors, I would not have even noticed if they had all been men, even though the percentages would be the same.)

Anyway, did Michelle consider herself to be a Conspiratress?
8.15.2008 12:25am
Frater Plotter:
"Bloggess" is obviously not the feminine of "blogger", but a portmanteau of "blogger" and "goddess".
8.15.2008 12:29am
Hoosier:
"stems precisely from the inference that the speaker must have an ulterior motive in using such a nonstandard term."

Thus "Zioness"?
8.15.2008 12:37am
Tony Tutins (mail):
By using "Jewess," the judge did not have to include an awkward definition of "Jewess" in his otherwise compact sentence. (A Jewish female? A female Jew? A LAY-DEE of Jewish descent and/or conversion -- Orthodox or Conservative accepted but not Reform?)
8.15.2008 12:53am
MD22304:
In a study session, a congregant asked our Rabbi a question concerning how a particular law applied to a Jewess. The only part of the answer I recall was that he distinguished the Jewess from the Jewee.

That was at least fifteen years ago, and the last time I ever heard anyone say Jewess (except for me, when I attempt to retell the story).
8.15.2008 1:07am
Smokey:
Is a jewess anything like a reporterette?

[I've been verbally spanked before for daring to utter a word like 'reporterette' on this site. But please don't take me wrong, baby!]
8.15.2008 1:07am
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
In my colloquial vocabulary I have a little set of semantically related politically incorrect verbs: "to jew (down)" = "bargain skillfully so as to get something for an unusually low price", "to gyp" = "to cheat", and "to welsh on" = "to deliberately fail to repay a debt".
8.15.2008 2:25am
John Burgess (mail) (www):
BTW, 'Jewess' is to be commonly found in the British media. There's no pejorative sense in such use, at least in the UK media.
8.15.2008 3:03am
trad and anon:
I always found it odd that there's a tendency to refer to both actors and actresses as "actors", I guess out of some sense of feminism (the Guardian does this a lot), by the same sort of people who insist on the awkward "he or she" formulation for pronouns.
I prefer the gender-neutral 'actor,' but I absolutely refuse to be tarred with this "he or she" nonsense. The plural 'they' is the way to go.
8.15.2008 3:16am
trad and anon:
The singular 'they,' I mean.
8.15.2008 3:16am
neurodoc:
Libertarian1: The first home I bought in Short Hills NJ had a restrictive covenant disallowing Jews and Italians. (Jewesses too?) The deed had a large stamp across the face noting that the clause was illegal (unconstitutional?) based on a NJ Supreme Court ruling. The town is now 40% Jewish (?) and 20% Italian (?) so I guess the original developer must be spinning in his grave.
Yes, tell "those" people they are not welcome and they will find a way to force themselves in. (But nothing was so amusing as the way Tony Soprano did the opposite, getting himself out of a beach house he regretted buying shortly after he purchased it. The Jewish lawyer who was initially very confident that he could enforce the deal they had made, soon found out more than he cared to know about extra-legal remedies and Tony's way of going about self-help.)
8.15.2008 3:26am
PersonFromPorlock:
While all "bloggers" are male, "blogesses" under thirty are actually "blogettes" (just so our Cup of Wrath is completely filled).
8.15.2008 8:24am
corneille1640 (mail):

"to welsh on" = "to deliberately fail to repay a debt".

Does the etymology of this particular locution come from anti-Welsh prejudice? Or is it "politically incorrect" because of analogy?
8.15.2008 8:55am
marc (mail):
Since when are 'actress', 'Jewess', 'temptress', 'canoness' etc archaisms? Just don't see it; surely infrequently used words are just that, words used infrequently. Maybe I don't understand archaism correctly.
8.15.2008 9:46am
jgshapiro (mail):
Marc:

I think the word generally refers to words that sound weird when used currently because hardly anyone uses them anymore.

Here is the dictionary definition:

Main Entry: ar·cha·ic

Pronunciation: \är-ˈkā-ik\

Function: adjective

Etymology: French or Greek; French archaïque, from Greek archaïkos, from archaios

Date: 1832

1: having the characteristics of the language of the past and surviving chiefly in specialized uses (an archaic word)

2: of, relating to, or characteristic of an earlier or more primitive time : antiquated (archaic legal traditions)

3: capitalized : of or belonging to the early or formative phases of a culture or a period of artistic development; especially : of or belonging to the period leading up to the classical period of Greek culture

4: surviving from an earlier period; specifically : typical of a previously dominant evolutionary stage

5: capitalized: of or relating to the period from about 8000 b.c. to 1000 b.c. and the North American cultures of that time

synonyms see old

— ar·cha·i·cal·ly \-i-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

"archaic." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2008.
Merriam-Webster Online. 15 August 2008

Also, FWIW, I don't think "actress" is archaic — it is used more or less interchangeably with "actor" for female actors.
8.15.2008 10:27am
Yankev (mail):

As to Jewess, my sense is that (unlike "Jewed") it was never itself pejorative -- it's just one of those now very rare archaicisms (such as "Hebrews") that makes people wonder "Huh, why is he saying that?" It's perceived offensiveness, it seems to me, stems precisely from the inference that the speaker must have an ulterior motive in using such a nonstandard term.


Or per Ambrose Bierce's Devil's Dictionary:

HEBREW, n. A male Jew, as distinguished from the Shebrew, an altogether superior creation.
8.15.2008 10:34am
Stevethepatentguy (mail) (www):
"Welsh on a bet" refers to the practice of English bookies fleeing the country if they couldn't pay their debts.
8.15.2008 11:09am
Bob from Ohio (mail):

widely regarded as offensive


Pity that the language is being robbed of its richness because people take offense so easily.

On a related note, I remember when feminists hated using "girl" as a substitute for "woman". Now, every young woman I know uses "girl" to refer to women of any age. (Men are usually "guys".) I see that their mothers )often still insist on using "woman".

All of these young women are certainly feminists but they are so comfortable in their equality that they don't get bothered by mere words.
8.15.2008 11:17am
JosephSlater (mail):
Some decades ago, the "-ess" suffix for describing women in a variety of roles was much more common. While researching unions of janitors back in the 1930s, I discovered that women in this job were routinely called "janitresses (by employers and unions) -- that's a word I hadn't encountered before.

See also the change from "stewardess" to "flight attendant." Well, actually, see also the change from "sky girl" to "stewardess" to "flight attendant."
8.15.2008 11:46am
Hoosier:
"Jewtrix"?
8.15.2008 11:56am
JosephSlater (mail):
Hoosier: In some of the old law materials, you see the phrase "prosecutrix" which always sounded even more S&M to me than the slightly more common "administratrix."

And don't get me started on modern civil procedure terms such as "permissive joinder."
8.15.2008 11:59am
Hoosier:
Bob from Ohio:

A number of the women I work with (at a university, so no surprise) are quite concerned that our female students refer to themselves as "girls." I don't like it, though for other reasons: it seems to me to emphasize the continuation of adolescence in college, and emphasizes contuity with high school.

Having said that, I always have to respons by saying that the "girls" don't see the distinctions as "girls/men," or even "girls/boys." Rather, it is "girls/guys." The problem is that the female equivalent of "guys" is "gals." And that is considered "condescending," probably for reasons of social class.

I think it's time to bring "gal" into the 21st Century. "Guys and gals" would then work for most everyday situations.
8.15.2008 12:00pm
dearieme:
Time for schoolboy humour? The difference between a fort and a fortress is that a fortress has breastworks.
8.15.2008 12:32pm
DFarar (mail):
Is "guys" and "dolls" out?
8.15.2008 12:46pm
Ak Mike (mail):
Why is "Jewess" or "Negress" offensive?

1. Seems analogous to gender names for animals (especially, of course, "tigress" and "lioness," but also cow, sow, bitch, etc.).
2. No analogous "whitess" or "Christianess" or anything like that.
3. The counterpart of "Jewess" in the opposite direction is "Shiksa," which is certainly demeaning.
8.15.2008 12:48pm
Malvolio:
The counterpart of "Jewess" in the opposite direction is "Shiksa," which is certainly demeaning.
I doubt many Jewish men regard the word "shiksa" as demeaning (their mothers on the other hand...)

The masculine form, "shaygets", still retains more than a whiff of its original meaning: "illiterate".
8.15.2008 1:25pm
pluribus:
In Dublin, the manager of the pension in which I stayed was described as "Mrs. McDonald, the manageress." (In fact, she owned the place and ran it--quite well.) It was no doubt an archaism, though I thought it was sexist because it suggested that a woman cannot be a "manager," only a "manageress." There are many terms that carry the same connotations, and we generally try to avoid them. "Jewess" and "Negress" both seem offensive for that reason.
8.15.2008 1:51pm
neurodoc:
JosephSlater: In some of the old law materials, you see the phrase "prosecutrix" which always sounded even more S&M to me than the slightly more common "administratrix."
Of course, if she's a professional devoting herself exclusively to the S part of the S&M thing, I don't know what she might be called other than a "dominatrix." To be sure a rose by any other name smells just as sweet, but what label could serve anywhere near as well as "dominatrix"? "Female disciplinarian"? "Sex worker" is so lifeless.
8.15.2008 2:16pm
Aultimer:
In the late 1980s, a friend of mine visited her boyfriend's slightly notable parents in a genteel Deep South small town. The local society page reported the visit, including her dress at the country club as "Miss Girlfriend, a Jewess, attended dinner with the Notables wearing...". It was written off to the likely age and circle of the author, rather than as intent to offend.

Judges often fall into a similar age and circle.
8.15.2008 2:43pm
Barbara Skolaut (mail):
Libertarian1:
The town is now 40% Jewish (?) and 20% Italian (?) so I guess the original developer must be spinning in his grave.
One would sincerely hope so.
8.15.2008 2:51pm
marc (mail):
It was no doubt an archaism, though I thought it was sexist because it suggested that a woman cannot be a "manager," only a "manageress."

Pluribus, How does 'manageress' imply that a woman cannot be a 'manager'--except in the sense that, well, a woman is a woman and not a man? that man and woman are different is a fact we are supposed to avert our eyes from, I expect; I prefer to be called 'sexist'.

Jgshapiro, Thanks. My own opinion is that if I know a word I'll use it so long as I can reasonably expect that my interlocutors will understand it. Simplistic it may be, but it's a rule I'm sticking to.
8.15.2008 3:43pm
neurodoc:
Aultimer, always curios, may I ask if she went on to marry the then boyfriend, or was that too great a divide to bridge?

Malvolio, an online Yiddish dictionary defines sheygetz as "non-Jewish boy; impudent boy, smart aleck; wild Jewish boy," nothing about illiterate, though I am far from expert in these matters. Don't know why sheygetz should be anything more or less than the masculine counterpart to shikse. I think these are not used to disparage either individuals or groups as such, as familiar American slurs of various ethnicities are used, but rather as expressions of disapproval of dating or marrying non-Jews. Now shvartser is more problematic, arguably an objective descriptor ("black" for those who generally prefer to be called African-Americans, but for awhile not so long ago wanted to be called Blacks), but viewed understandably enough by many as an unacceptable slur.

Stevethepatentguy, I initially puzzled at your explanation of the origins of "welsh," but then realized that the English count Wales as a separate "country."
8.15.2008 5:54pm
Ak Mike (mail):
Malvolio and Neurodoc - the penumbras and implications of Yiddish words is a big topic, but I think that the word "shikse" carries a hint of bimboness (shikse is practically a synonym for blonde). Now just like the word "bimbo," the word "shikse" does invoke a certain prurient appeal, but it does not invoke respect. You would not call someone a shikse to her face, except when intending to be either humorous or mean.
8.15.2008 6:54pm
pluribus:
marc, or should I call you "sexist," as you prefer?:


Pluribus, How does 'manageress' imply that a woman cannot be a 'manager'--except in the sense that, well, a woman is a woman and not a man?


They called her a "manageress" rather than a "manager." (I thought that was in my original post.) I took it as implying that a woman could not be a manager and a man could not be a manageress, or at least they prefer to keep them distinct. It seemed quaint, but I didn't think along those lines. I thought a woman as well as a man could be a manager. If a woman was called a "doctoress" rather than a "doctor," would you regard that as sexist, or just a recognition of anatomical differences?
8.15.2008 8:00pm
neurodoc:
Ak Mike, I think our takes on shikse and sheygetz for younger female and male gentiles respectively may depend on various things, including how old we are and our own upbringing. I know of no authority on this, save perhaps Portnoy, who spoke to us through Philip Roth.

Interesting thoughts about "bimboness" and "blondness" (only natural blonds, or bottle blonds too?). She doesn't come across as a bimbo (was Marilyn Monroe a bimbo?), but Scarlet Johansson qualifies on blondness, and I think many Jewish grandmothers would be quick to categorize her as a shikse. Reportedly, though, Ms. Johansson's mother is/was Jewish. So, had Aron Feinberg married her, he might have made his grandparents (and himself) happy.
8.15.2008 10:06pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
I'm not surprised that such would be encountered in Ireland

--

The Least Successful Equal Pay Advertisement

In 1976 the European Economic Community pointed out to the Irish Government that it had not yet implemented the agreed sex equality legislation. The Dublin Government immediately advertised for an equal pay enforcement officer. The advertisement offered different salary scales for men and women.

-- Stephen Pile, "The Book of Heroic Failures"
-
8.16.2008 12:53am
A.J. Sutter:
I don't know from Scarlet Johansson, but Scarlett Johansson both is halachically Jewish (i.e., according to religious law) and apparently self-identifies as Jewish,. There are plenty of other Jewish blondes, with some of whom I even went to Hebrew school. I never heard of blondeness as a sufficient qualifier for being a shikse.

As for Jewess being merely archaic, that rather begs the question. It's not a word Jews typically used to refer to themselves. Rather it was usually used by people who thought this otherness was important, and not always for the best of reasons. Among Jewish people, it's been peceived as derogatory for at least the 50 years within my direct memory.
8.16.2008 1:33am
marc (mail):
Pluribus, A woman can be a manager or a manageress, depending on how one has learned the language and acquired his vocabularium. I don't know what is sexist about that. Of course I know--I just don't buy into the project that insists that a rationalisation of language according to the current political program is right or necessary.

But (and cf Ak Mike supra), "Why is 'Jewess' or 'Negress' offensive?"--I have been thinking about that. All the words in -ess that I could think of, apart from Jewess and Negress, refer to office/function (temptress, mayoress, stewardess, ambassadress, conductress)--I don't see any moral reason not to use those words: but the 'exceptional' Negress and Jewess I wonder about now. If they have been used only to further stigmatise some supposed otherness of the groups of persons to which such individuals belong, then I can't see how one could defend such usage. Negress, Jewess... is there any other comparable feminine use for other 'races' or ethnic groups? Negress may be in origin simply the anglicisation of the French negresse but I don't see how juive can become Jewess.
8.16.2008 8:44am
marc (mail):
Pluribus, I neglected to respond to your question; sorry.

If a woman was called a "doctoress" rather than a "doctor," would you regard that as sexist, or just a recognition of anatomical differences?

If female doctors in an English-speaking society had commonly been referred to as doctoresses for two or three hundred years, I shouldn't have any trouble following the practice, no, nor would I change my usage because a group of people at that late stage of the game discovered something sexist about the word itself or its common use, given that English 'approves' the use of many other words in -ess for no other reason than the distinguishing of male from female. If someone today, in 2008 in south Florida, used the word 'doctoresse' seriously I should think he was a bit loopy, thereby incidentally confirming his true citizenship of this happy State.

A conversation about whether the only real distinction between man and woman is "anatomical differences" is perhaps too far off-topic here.
8.16.2008 9:18am
Hoosier:
"Miss Girlfriend . . ."

Now THAT's offensive.

We all know that she is *Dr.* Girlfriend.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Girlfriend
8.18.2008 12:55am