Founder Of Group Palin Courted Professed "Hatred For The American Government"; Cursed "Damn Flag"
By Greg Sargent - September 2, 2008, 6:10PM
The founder of the Alaska Independence Party -- a group that has been courted over the years by Sarah Palin, and one her husband was a member of for roughly seven years -- once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed the American flag as a "damn flag."
The AIP founder, Joe Vogler, made the comments in 1991, in an interview that's now housed at the Oral History Program in the Rasmuson Library at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.
"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP.
"And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."
At another point, Volger advocated renouncing allegiance to the United States. In the course of denouncing Federal regulation over land, he said:
"And then you get mad. And you say, the hell with them. And you renounce allegiance, and you pledge your efforts, your effects, your honor, your life to Alaska."
"Vaguely secessionist party, with some miscellaneous libertarian leanings thrown in there. Harmless stuff anyway."
"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
And a libertarian is supposed to be against this party because of what?
"I'm very glad you pointed out that every single person, in every single political party in the entire world, agrees with every single statement made on behalf of that party. There are no such things as moderates, pro-choice Republicans, pro-life Democrats, pro-environment libertarians, or the like. Thank you for debunking the myth that people think for themselves."
"If health insurance for all, an end to the Iraq War, an end to torture and illegal wiretapping, and a sane energy policy can be obtained at the price of destroying one teenage girl, her family, and the surrendering our self-respect I see that as a cheap trade."
The man I met more than 20 years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor.
He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine, who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth -- by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.
Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear.
The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.
And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Rev. Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children.
He's dead? Damn!
In Winston-Salem, Obama sharply attacks Reverend Jeremiah Wright and the substance of his remarks yesterday, a far sharper disavowal than he gave in Philadelphia last month.
The core of his message: That Wright was not only offensive, but the polar opposite of Obama's own views and politics.
"I have spent my entire adult life trying to bridge the gap between different kinds of people. That's in my DNA, trying to promote mutual understanding to insist that we all share common hopes and common dreams as Americans and as human beings. That's who I am, that's what I believe, and that's what this campaign has been about," Obama said.
"I am outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw yesterday," he said.
Obama also distanced himself from the man in a way he has been reluctant to in the past.
"The person that I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago," he said. "His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate, and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church."
"They certainly don't portray accurately my values and beliefs," he said.
"If Reverend Wright thinks that's political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn't know me very well and based on his remarks yesterday, I may not know him as well as I thought either."
"I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my speech in Philadelphia, explaining that he has done enormous good in the church," he said. "But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS; when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st century; when he equates the U.S. wartime efforts with terrorism -- then there are no exuses. They offend me. They rightly offend all Americans. And they should be denounced, and that's what I'm doing very clearly and unequivocally here today."
"It is antithetical to my campaign. It is antithetical to what I'm about. It is not what I think America stands for," he said.
But she made a video address to their convention, didn't she?
"So, uh, support for rights as opposed to privileges, support for the United States Constitution, support for the right to keep and bear arms, and support for jury nullification. They just HATE America and everything it stands for."
"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
"Robert Byrd addressed the KKK and never repudiated his association with them, but Mahan Atma is just fine with that, it's all for his Liberal cause."
"Er, you said Obama has "repeatedly denounced" reverend Wright.
Care to post another?"
"Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy," Obama said. "I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue."
"I can find plenty of interactions with the MSM on the net, written. spkent, taped, videotaped."
The Ace is correct. I have yet to hear Obama explicitly distance himself from cannibalistic pedophiles, a fortiorari [sic], he supports them.
As far as Rev Wright goes, Obama has repeatedly denounced him and his views.
You can't produce quotes from 2 different dates proving your assertion.
It is a preventative measure in case Palin manages to say something interesting in her speech, with the goal to convince as many people as possible to tune her out first.
MarkField: know any good mediums? Once we've joined the tinfoil hat group, can we also mike up Vince Foster? Let's take "circus" to a new level. :)
I don't know about that. Did you catch Mondale at the Democratic convention four years ago?
I'm lost. What "shark"?
I realize you'd much rather only talk about Obama/Wright...
None of the other nominees are afraid to interact with the media. So why is Palin?
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution
for the United States of America,
and to the principles for which it stands:
one Supreme Law [under God], indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.
It was reported that Sarah Palin attended the 1994 AIP convention as a supporter. Is this false? I'd like to have the straight story, because so much is floating around there now that it's hard to know what is true and what is bunk.
If we can get worked up about just when Michelle Obama became proud of our country, then it is certainly fair game whether Palin's husband has advocated breaking away from the same.
In the case of Todd Palin, I wonder if we are dealing with a kook fringe. If so, it should not be reassuring for Republicans.
you provide only the scantiest of details and no link
Todd Palin was asked to meet with Monegan and, yes Wooten was discussed
It is a little weird that her husband would be so involved in emails on legislative matters or other governance issues.
There's a difference between a sitting governor in Alaska and the President of the United States.
if getting Wooten fired was her quest, why did she not take steps to do that in 2005 during the complaint period, instead of specifically stating under deposition she was staying silent in order not to put his job at risk?
I'll keep searching for the primary source document.
You have to weigh all the available information and draw a conclusion on who is telling the truth - Monegan or Palin
To allege that I, or any member of my family … directed disciplinary action be taken against any employee of the Department of Public Safety, is, quite simply, outrageous
I do now have to tell Alaskans that such pressure [to get rid of Wooten] could have been perceived to exist although I have only now become aware of it
This trooper is still out on the street, in fact he's been promoted … It was a joke, the whole year long 'investigation' of him … This is the same trooper who's out there today telling people the new administration is going to destroy the trooper organization, and that he'd 'never work for that b****', Palin'.) … He's still bragging about it [moose kill] in my hometown and after another cop confessed to witnessing the kill, the trooper was 'investigated' for over a year and merely given a slap on the wrist … Though he's out there arresting people today for the same crime! … He threatened to kill his estranged wife's parent, refused to be transferred to rural Alaska and continued to disparage Natives in words and tone, he continues to harass and intimidate his ex. -- even after being slapped with a restraining order that was lifted when his supervisors intervened … He threatens to always be able to come out on top because he's 'got the badge', etc. etc. etc.) … For police officers to violate the public trust is a grave, grave violation -- in my opinion. We have too many examples lately of cops and troopers who violate the public trust. DPS has come across as merely turning a blind eye or protecting that officer, seemingly 'for the good of the brotherhood'.
[I want to mention] my ex-brother-in-law, the trooper, who threatened to kill my dad yet was not even reprimanded by his bosses and still to this day carries a gun, of course. … We can't have double standards. Remember when the death threat was reported, and follow-on threats from Mike that he was going to 'bring Sarah and her family down' -- instead of any reprimand WE were told by trooper union personnel that we'd be sued if we talked about those threats. Amazing. . . . So consistency is needed here … No one's above the law. If the law needs to be changed to not allow access to guns for people threatening to kill someone, it must apply to everyone.
I would leave Levi and Bristol out of any serious political discussion.
Since you apparently think that this is bad for her candidacy and you oppose said candidacy, it's irrational for this to upset you.
if you've forgotten the Clintons' co-presidency so quickly.
why the baseless criticism
I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions.
It's possible to think a "co-presidency" is OK. But if I think that, I will probably also have an interest in the political background of the co-president. That's why these questions about Todd are relevant.
I see no indication that Todd is going to be a co-president. All indications are that he hill stay in the background, the way Denis Thatcher did.