The Volokh Conspiracy

Could O.J.'s Sentence for Robbery Take Into Account His Killings?

CNN reports:

O.J. Simpson faces the prospect of spending the rest of his life in prison after he and co-defendant Clarence "C.J." Stewart were found guilty on 12 charges, including armed robbery and kidnapping....

The case involved a Las Vegas, Nevada, hotel room confrontation over sports memorabilia. Simpson said the items had been stolen from him....

Prosecutors charged that Simpson led a group of men who used threats, guns and force to take photographs, footballs and other items from memorabilia dealers Bruce Fromong and Al Beardsley in September 2007....

So when the judge is deciding on Simpson's sentence, may he take into account Simpson's killing Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman, and give Simpson a longer sentence than he'd give a first offender charged with the same crimes?

Yes (as I mentioned last year), at least as a matter of federal constitutional law. In sentencing, a judge may take into account any past crimes on Simpson's part, using a preponderance of the evidence standard, even if an earlier jury had found that Simpson's guilt of those crimes hadn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

The theory behind modern American sentencing, after all, is that while guilt is about what the defendant did in this case, sentencing may (and should) in part turn on the defendant's general character. That's why first offenders are often treated leniently, but people with long criminal history records are punished more harshly.

Moreover, proof beyond a reasonable doubt has never been required at sentencing. Historically, judges could make decisions based on facts that hadn't been proven in any formal way; certainly facts shown by a preponderance of the evidence suffice. For this very reason, judges could consider alleged past criminal conduct of which the defendant had been acquitted: The acquittal simply shows that the conduct couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and doesn't preclude proof by a preponderance of the evidence.

The Supreme Court has held that in presumptive sentencing guidelines schemes, all facts relevant to enhancement (except those which can be proven through a record of criminal convictions, and civil judgments likely wouldn't suffice) need to be found by a criminal jury. But the Court specifically held that judges could find such facts whenever they are making discretionary decisions, rather than decisions under presumptive guidelines schemes.

Simpson has been found guilty by a civil jury of killing his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. (If I'm not mistaken, the jury's award of punitive damages involved a finding of guilt by clear and convincing evidence, though I don't think this is necessary to my analysis.) It's possible -- I'm not sure -- that a judge could simply rely on this past finding. But a judge could certainly enter such a finding himself based on his own review of the evidence.

And given this finding about Simpson's past conduct and therefore his moral character, the judge would be legally allowed to impose a higher sentence than he would on a typical robber, burglar, or what have you. I'm not sure whether the judge in this case would indeed act this way; but the federal Constitution would let him act this way if he so chose.

Now there might be some Nevada rules that prohibit this; I did a quick search and couldn't find any, but if any of you know Nevada law on the subject and can enlighten me, I'd be much obliged. But as a matter of federal constitutional law, a judge may (for instance) sentence Simpson to (say) life in prison for the robbery and kidnapping -- based partly on Simpson's past misconduct -- even if the judge would have sentenced a first offender only to (say) 10 years in prison.

JH in CO:
Professor Volokh,

How exactly would the judge here apply a preponderance of the evidence standard to a trial that happened 13 years ago? Does he just say "oh yes, I remembered when Simpson was acquitted in '95, what a miscarriage of justice that was" and just apply the enhancement? Or does he have to review all of the facts and evidence again in some way?

Thanks in advance—-I'm honestly curious how this would work.
10.4.2008 5:27pm
Kevin Lomax (mail):
The Supreme Court has held that in presumptive sentencing guidelines schemes, all facts relevant to enhancement (except those which can be proven through a record of criminal convictions, and civil judgments likely wouldn't suffice) need to be found by a criminal jury.


That's not quite right. All facts that can increase a sentence beyond the statutory maximum (e.g., top of the guidelines) must be found by a jury. Consequently, if the sentencing judge uses the Juice's priors to enhance his sentence but doesn't exceed the stat max, there's no 6A issue.
10.4.2008 5:29pm
TCO:
What would be a reasonable sentence absent the killings. How much extra for the previous behavior?

SHOULD the judge consider the killings and give a harsher sentence? Is he not doing his job optimally if he does not?
10.4.2008 5:32pm
Philistine (mail):
Could a Court use the civil judgment against Simpson to collaterally estop Simpson from contesting an enhancement based upon his earlier killing?
10.4.2008 5:45pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
There's another aspect of the sentencing about which I am curious. One of the charges of which O.J. was convicted is "kidnapping". Now, it is true that, if one accepts the prosecution's account of what happened, he did briefly engage in unlawful confinement, but surely this is quite different from what we usually think of as kidnapping, i.e. holding a person against his or her will for an extended period of time under threat of injury or death unless a third party complies with the kidnapper's demands. Are there degrees of "kidnapping" in Nevada law, or is what O.J. did to be distinguished from kidnapping for ransom at sentencing?
10.4.2008 5:47pm
A.W. (mail):
JH in CO

> How exactly would the judge here apply a preponderance of the evidence standard to a trial that happened 13 years ago?

I would think they could use the civil case for proxy. There the jury found by preponderance of the evidence that OJ did it.
10.4.2008 5:49pm
Katl L (mail):
So in the USA rhere is not such thing as res iudiccata?
he was absolved of murder , how can you take in account guilt in that case?
That means he will be judged twice for the same felony.And in no western country the double jurisdiction allow to avoid the double jeopardy
h
10.4.2008 6:03pm
Suzy (mail):
That seems like a lousy rule to me. If you're acquitted, then you're acquitted. Why should a wrongfully accused person be at risk of a greater sentence just because of that? Can someone tell me what I'm missing on the other side of this issue?
10.4.2008 6:04pm
Katl L (mail):
So in the USa there is nio such thing , as there is in evry westrn country, as res iudicata?
10.4.2008 6:05pm
EH (mail):
I hear a neighbor once had to tell him to turn his stereo down. That might be worth an extra year or two.
10.4.2008 6:11pm
JJLAW:
res judicata is exactly Volokh's point... if factors to consider when sentencing must only be found by preponderence and not beyond a reasonable doubt then res judicata from the criminal trial wouldn't exactly apply because that was at the highest standard.

The more interesting consideration is what someone mentioned re increasing the sentence beyond the statutory maximum requiring a jury trial. This is certainly true as we've seen in Booker and its application to state sentencing schemes...e.g. Crawford in CA.

The real question is how Neveda's sentencing scheme works; is it like CA's where it would trigger Booker and Apprendi issues whenever the judge goes beyond a determintive presumption? Or, is it entirely at the discretion at the judge? If it's at the judge's discretion then he can certainly consider the fact that OJ was arrested and tried for the double murder, that a jury found him guilty of it by the preponderence of the evidence, and his conduct since his criminal acquittal. To answer the other person's question, in sentencing the judge would have before him a rap sheet of all of OJ's contacts (arrests, not just convictions) with the police and surely the prosecution in its sentencing memorandum may put before the judge the civl judgment.
10.4.2008 6:32pm
Angus:
As a non-lawyer, to me that is absolute B.S. If you've been found not guilty by a jury, you should not be punished in any way for that crime. How the hell did the nonsensical rule above get into our jurisprudence?
10.4.2008 6:38pm
Obvious (mail):
As a non-lawyer, I'm interested in what one can do to retrieve one's stolen property under the law.

Hypothetical: There is NO question that X is your property. Without the use of guns or other weapons--using only your powerful body and the minimum force required to achieve your end--you retrieve X from the person you KNOW took it in violation of the law, something about which, retrospectively, proper judicial authorities concur with you.

Have you broken any law? What CAN you do without breaking the law? Have we been reduced to being required to "call the authorities" for every infraction of our rights?

Please note: while the second OJ trial raises these questions, I'm in no way suggesting the hypothetical fact pattern laid out above corresponds to the facts of the second OJ trial.
10.4.2008 6:42pm
Uthaw:
Obvious, in your hypothetical, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to use guns to retrieve your stolen property from the thief!
10.4.2008 6:49pm
Nathan_M (mail):
I've always been troubled by sentencing someone based on conduct that cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, but using the verdict of a civil trial, where the defendant can be forced to testify against himself, seems especially unfair.
10.4.2008 6:54pm
cvt:
California Civil Code 3294 does require proof by clear and convincing evidence of oppression, fraud or malice for an award of punitive damages. The fact that the civil jury was required to find that Simpson acted with malice, fraud or oppression may be more significant than the fact that they found the fact with an enhanced evidentiary standard.

I don't remember whether Simpson was found liable for an intentional tort or just negligence. It was likely the former, but it didn't have to be.
10.4.2008 6:55pm
John (mail):
This is not a res judicata issue; at most it would involve some form of collateral estoppel from the civil trial.

The question is, what is the man's character? The court is free to rummage around pretty much anywhere (including prior legal proceedings) to find evidence on that subject.
10.4.2008 6:57pm
Monty:
Typically when a judge enhances, isn't it typically based on evidence at trial that either failed to meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard, or established a crime that wasn't charged. Here your saying the judge should go totally outside the trial record, using evidence presented in seperate procedings. That seems very sketchy. The civil trial is problematic because many rights a criminal defendant enjoy wouldn't apply. Anything the judge wanted to rely on that was not presented at trial should be subject to challange by the defendant. Given the standard the judge could still do what he wants, but there should at least be due process...
10.4.2008 7:33pm
wuzzagrunt (mail):

Uthaw:
Obvious, in your hypothetical, I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to use guns to retrieve your stolen property from the thief!

I don't know that you are allowed to use force to take your stuff back from a thief, but most (all?) places allow for a citizen's arrest. Early media reports (always suspect) suggested that there may have been an honest dispute about the ownership of the relevant items, i.e., that the memorabilia dealers came upon them legally (or thought they did).

Relieving a party of your/his property and then leaving, is a whole different thing than using force to hold the party for the police. I'm still not clear on why OJ couldn't have let the police handle the whole deal. It sounds like he was--at best--convicted of felony stupid.
10.4.2008 7:44pm
Anon Y. Mous:

Have we been reduced to being required to "call the authorities" for every infraction of our rights?

I also seem to recall complaints by Simpson that on previous occasions he had attempted to get police assistance with memorabilia issues and was laughed off.
10.4.2008 7:48pm
PersonFromPorlock:
If the judge increases Simpson's sentence for prior acts, does Simpson then get that sentence reduced for time served during his murder trial?
10.4.2008 7:51pm
New Pseudonym:
What is the basis for the hypothetical's assertion that any of the memoribilia were his property? Unless it is part of his Florida Homestead, it is subject to a judgment lien from the civil trial, isn't it? Has OJ ever claimed to be acting as the agent for the plaintiffs in that case? I think not.

Is enhancement moot? The Dallas Morning News claims he faces a life sentence. Seems possible if he has been found guilty of kidnapping.
10.4.2008 7:57pm
grackle (mail):
I think the more interesting question is whether or not Simpson , and particularly his co-defendent, were able to get a fair trial. I rather doubt it. Given the reports that almost all of the participants in the confrontation looked from the start to benefit financially from the notoriety of the confrontation and made blanket deals for their testimony; that one of the two "victims" apparently did not feel he was victimized; and mostly that the whole prosecution revolved around "getting" Simpson because it is widely believed that his verdict thirteen years ago was incorrect, I don't see how the concept of fairness could have survived the trial. I imagine that some of these issues will be tested on appeal.
10.4.2008 7:57pm
Paul McKaskle (mail):
The kidnapping issue is an interesting one. About 50 years ago it was an issue in what was known as the Caryl Chessman case. Chessman, a prior felon, had been sentenced to death for a kidnapping (no death occurred) committed by him. If I remember the facts correctly, he had approached a car parked in a "lovers lane" and ordered the woman in the car to get out and then he sexually assaulted her--something less than rape, however. The moving and holding her outside (to accomplish the assault) was deemed a kidnapping and, because it was committed by a prior felon, it carried the death sentence. Chessman was on death row for what at the time was a very long time (as I recall, 13 years when most cases at the time got "resolved" in two or three years) during which time he wrote a best selling book about his case and death row. His case became an international cause celebre and there was massive publicity--in part because he claimed that he had been railroaded and wasn't guilty (with some justification, the trial judge, Judge Fricke, was generally known as a "hanging judge" and there were arguably serious irregularities in the trial); in part because he had not committed what most people regarded, even at the time, as a clear capital crime; and, in part, because he had become a best selling author.

The then governor, Pat Brown (Jerry Brown's father) wanted to commute the sentence to life imprisonment but the law then required that a majority of the California Supreme Court had to concur and only three of the seven justices were willing to do so. Chessman was then executed. (I have asked several classes of law students whether they had ever heard of Chessman, and virtually no one had--but circa 1960 he was subject of headlines internationally.)

Subsequently the California Supreme Court has overturned the precedent about kidnapping that had been upheld in People v. Chessman, and the incidental detaining of someone while committing another crime is, I think, no longer kidnapping in California--at least it is treated in some lesser way.

I mention this only because my casual perusal of news articles about Simpson suggests that any kidnapping he may have done is similar to the Chessman "kidnapping."
10.4.2008 8:36pm
Angus:
After reading more about it, I'm certain that this is a "make-up" conviction for 13 years ago.
10.4.2008 9:00pm
George Weiss (mail) (www):
EV-i think it probably better to mention the apprendi ruling and the fact that even if the 95 killings are used-they cant be used to go over the maximum for what he has just been convicted of-and further that for sentencing purposes he hasn't been convicted of all of those crimes since many of them will merge
10.4.2008 9:07pm
A.W. (mail):
To all the people who think you shouldn't hold his 95 slayings against him, I would just say I don't think the law should have to pretend that this guy never did anything bad before in his life.

Why should the law be a fool?

Angus

Yeah, that's why it took them 13 hours to reach the verdict. Because all they said was "let's convict him for what he did in 95." And that is why the convicted his co-defendant on all charges, because they were getting revenge on OJ.
10.4.2008 9:34pm
TerrencePhilip:
Sounds like evidence of the murders is clearly admissible. According to Wood v. State, 892 P.2d 944, 111 Nev. 428 (Nev., 1995), "The general rule in Nevada is that a sentencing proceeding is not a second trial. The district court is permitted to consider facts and circumstances which clearly would not be admissible at trial so long as the record does not demonstrate prejudice resulting from consideration of information or accusations founded on facts supported only by impalpable or highly suspect evidence." Another case holds "Other criminal conduct may properly be considered at the sentencing hearing, even though the defendant was never charged or convicted of it." Sheriff, Lander County, Nev. v. Morfin, 816 P.2d 453, 107 Nev. 557 (Nev., 1991).

I'm too lazy to Shepardize these so take this with a big grain of salt.

As for whether the white people on the jury wanted "payback" for 15-year-old murders: I can't peer into their minds but that seems like a big thing to accuse them of. The alleged (and now proven) crime was pretty much all on tape; if it set forth the elements of the crime, that was probably enough. Everything else (cross-examining the scummy witnesses) was just window dressing. Perhaps it pushed them over the line though: often you see juries say "a pox on all their houses, the victims are scum" and come back with lesser verdicts or acquittals, but here they had reason to think OJ was as bad or worse than the witnesses against him. I don't know if that makes his trial "unfair," certainly you can't argue a famous defendant can only be tried by jurors completely unaware of their existence. Recall too, that several years ago OJ was tried and acquitted by what I'm assuming what a mostly white jury in Florida in a road-rage case.

Also I admit the little bit of this I heard from highlights and summaries made it sound like a bullshit case, to judge from the "quality" of the witnesses against him. Again- I assume the tape was determinative.

From the little I've followed this case in the press it sounds like he has a decent Batson argument. The prosecutor's justification for tossing black jurors sounded awful flimsy.
10.4.2008 9:35pm
zippypinhead:
Typically when a judge enhances, isn't it typically based on evidence at trial that either failed to meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard, or established a crime that wasn't charged. Here your saying the judge should go totally outside the trial record, using evidence presented in seperate procedings. That seems very sketchy.
Nope, not necessarily. While I can't speak to Nevada's rules, under the Federal system it's not at all unusual for the sentencing court to take into account prior conduct relevant to the sentence that wasn't the subject of trial evidence at all. And not just prior criminal convictions. For example, in a wire fraud conspiracy trial based on a telemarketing scheme, the fact the defendant was sued civilly by a state A.G. or the FTC Bureau of Consumer protection and was the subject of an injunction or other civil penalties for similar conduct, means that defendant can be sentenced VERY differently from someone without that sort of civil record. Here, Simpson was found guilty of a violent crime - the fact that he previously was found civilly liable for another violent crime should be no less relevant. Payback for events of 13 years ago? Maybe, but that doesn't necessarily make it unjust.

Incidentally, Apprendi shouldn't be an issue here -- it sounds from media reports like the judge has more than enough ability to keep Simpson in jail for life by stringing together authorized sentences for different counts consecutively, making it unnecessary to use alternative sentencing enhancement authority to exceed the statutory max.
10.4.2008 9:43pm
Lively:
OT

OJ acquitted of murder, October 3, 1995
OJ guilty of kidnapping/armed robbery October 4, 2008
10.4.2008 10:49pm
PDXLawyer (mail):
Obvious asked:

"Hypothetical: There is NO question that X is your property. Without the use of guns or other weapons--using only your powerful body and the minimum force required to achieve your end--you retrieve X from the person you KNOW took it in violation of the law, something about which, retrospectively, proper judicial authorities concur with you.

"Have you broken any law? What CAN you do without breaking the law? Have we been reduced to being required to "call the authorities" for every infraction of our rights?"

Generally, if your property is in someone else's possession, you can only recover it by self-help if that self-help does not involve a breach of the peace. For example, you can't repossess a car (even if they buyer has stopped making payments) by breaking into a garage and taking it. You can only repo from the street.

Further, you can't just call the cops, convince them, and have them go and take the stuff back under the threat of arresting the thief (a point on which a lot of cops are confused - I forgot the name, but there's a Supreme Court case on this involving the Cook County, IL sheriff). The cops *can* arrest a thief, and they *can* decide not to if he gives the stuff back, but what they can't do is deliever the stuff to you over the thief's protest. The only thing you can do is sue the thief and get a judgment for possession.

In some ways this seems unfair, but the point is that no government can allow people to engage in private wars, even private just wars. Thats the fundimental differene between government and anarchy.
10.4.2008 10:49pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
PDXLawyer,

If the disputed property is likely to disappear, as in this case, could the putative owner, such as O.J., obtain a temporary order seizing it ex parte?
10.4.2008 11:06pm
Franklin Drackman:
Too bad he won't be going to the same prison Michael Vicks at, What a Backfield!!!
10.4.2008 11:28pm
PDXLawyer (mail):
Bill Poser:

Yes. Every state's law with which I am familiar provides for some sort of ex parte seizure, subject to a later, more deliberate resolution. Typically this sort of seizure is only allowed if one posts a substantial bond, like double the value of the property being seized.

I've counselled a number of clients who've wanted to use this sort of procedure, until faced with the necessity of putting their money where their mouth was. Odd that.
10.4.2008 11:50pm
LM (mail):
Look for OJ's autograph to start showing up on a new kind of sports memorabilia.
10.5.2008 12:28am
SATA_Interface:
Franklin, that was awesome. I am going to borrow that one and use it during the game tomorrow.
10.5.2008 1:11am
Dave N (mail):
Under Nevada law, the judge can consider almost anything she wants as long the evidence is not "suspect or highly impalpable." The Nevada Supreme Court has held that while double hearsay is suspect, garden variety hearsay is not.

Additionally, there is no Apprendi issue. As part of the verdict, the jury found the use of a deadly weapon (which is an enhancement under Nevada law) with respect to the kidnapping, robbery, and coercion counts. Under Nevada law, using a deadly weapon while committing most felonies results in a consective sentence equal to the underlying sentence on each count where the weapons enhancement is found.

Wikipedia
identifies 12 charges against Simpson. For First Degree Kidnapping (2 counts), Simpson faces either a 5 to 15 year sentence on each count or 5 to life.

Each Robbery count (2 counts) carries a sentence of 2 to 15 years.

Assault with a Deadly Weapons (2 counts) has a 1 to 6 year sentence (but no addditional consecutive sentence for the weapon).

Burglary While Possessing a Firearm carries a sentence of 2 to 15 years (but no additional consecutive sentence for the weapon).

Coersion has a 1 to 6 year sentence on each of the two counts.

Two of the three Conspiracy counts carries a sentence of 1 to 6 years. The third one carries a possible one year sentence.

The bottom line, simple math version when all is aggregated is that the trial judge could effectively sentence OJ to 70 years to life if she wanted, since she has the discretion to run sentences consecutively if she chooses.

On the other hand, the MINIMUM sentence that OJ could receive under Nevada law, if all sentences ran concurrently would be consecutive sentences of 5 to 15 years, meaning an effective sentence of 10 to 30 years in prison.

I suspect OJ will get something in between those two—and given his age (61) even a minimum sentence makes it highly probable that he will die in prison.
10.5.2008 3:46am
PDXLawyer (mail):
Is anyone else bothered by the common practice of charging a single criminal episode with, in essence, a single focus, using a dozen or so counts? I'll stipulate that current law allows this, but oughtn't we be concerned with it? To my mind, what OJ did was armed robbery. Bad in itself, certainly, and worthy of a substantial sentence. Why do we need to throw in all this other stuff?

The problem, as I see it, is that if nearly every robbery is also defined, as a matter of legal technicality, as kidnapping, the transparency of the system to non-lawyers suffers. The system is left with the following unattractive options:
1. Sentence every robber to a term longer than the rules provide for robbery;
2. Sentence those who plead guilty to the robbery sentence, and punish those who go to trial by tacking on kidnapping. This has the added bad feature of "letting them off easy" in a plea bargain, at least as seen by the (understandably upset) victim. Of course, it is easier on the lawyers and judges.
3. Make the sentence for robbery much less than would be justified by an ordinary robbery/kidnapping. Problem then is that ordinary citizens who just look at the letter of the law would think that robbery is underpunished, because they don't understand that essentially all robberyis a double crime.

Of course, one way out of the problem would be to rely on prosecutors to use their discretion to not double-charge unless there are, in common understanding rather than legal technicality, two separate crimes. Problem with this is that most prosecutors seem to be victims of a political Gresham's Law, with the clear political demand on the side of more convictions and longer sentences, irrespective of mere facts in particular cases.

Any prosecutors care to comment on these views?
10.5.2008 6:34am
Franklin Drackman:
At least they didn't charge him with Mopery! Anyway, a long sentence won't matter, come the last days of an Obama administration, Jan 2013 or 2017, he'll get a Pardon. Hope he voted absentee.
10.5.2008 11:27am
TerrencePhilip:
PDXLawyer, I am an ex-prosecutor. We always thought it was simplest for the jury to have as few charges to determine as possible. However, charge selection is determined by sentencing exposure: if you are prosecuting a violent crime, you want to charge the crime(s) you can prove that will get the most time for the offender.

Dave N's post tells us why these other charges were added: According to him, "using a deadly weapon while committing most felonies results in a consective sentence equal to the underlying sentence on each count where the weapons enhancement is found." Thus, at a minimum, he's looking at 10 to 30. That sounds like a fair sentencing floor for a robbery case.
10.5.2008 11:27am
Reasoner:
The idea of using a previous acquittal for sentencing enhancement seemed unfair until I realized it could be looked at another way. You could say for example that the sentence for kidnapping is life, and that the judge can use whatever info is available to REDUCE the sentence. So for a first time offender, the lack of prior accusations may leave the judge willing to reduce the sentence to the minimum. For OJ, the judge might decide that this guy is probably a menace on the streets, and so no reduction in sentence is called for.
10.5.2008 2:18pm
Hoosier:
Non-Lawyer Question: Can the judge take into account the fact that Juice has dodged paying the award on the civil case? I have to agree that the lower standard in civil cases makes it problematic to include the verdict in criminal sentencing. But the fact that he has been a scofflaw when it comes to the consequences of that case is a different matter.
10.5.2008 4:45pm
davod (mail):
"Is anyone else bothered by the common practice of charging a single criminal episode with, in essence, a single focus, using a dozen or so counts?"

I often wonder if it is not a stratgey to include a number of charges just so the jury has the opportunity to find guilt somewhere.
10.5.2008 5:42pm
D K Warren (mail):
Challenges to this questionable practice are mounting, partciularly the lower burden of proof, as noted in this article.

An insightful ABA Journal article written on the subject this past August is available here.
10.5.2008 6:00pm
Ricardo (mail):
Non-Lawyer Question: Can the judge take into account the fact that Juice has dodged paying the award on the civil case? I have to agree that the lower standard in civil cases makes it problematic to include the verdict in criminal sentencing. But the fact that he has been a scofflaw when it comes to the consequences of that case is a different matter.

I wonder the same thing. When he received the advance for his book "If I Did It," OJ apparently set up a shell corporation and had the publisher pay the corporation rather than himself to avoid having the money seized as part of the outstanding civil judgment. Also as a non-lawyer, I'm not sure why this doesn't qualify as money laundering but regardless, it makes him an arrogant scumbag. That's something the judge should be able to take into account, I would think.
10.5.2008 10:41pm
Vinegar Hill:

Here's a note I sent to some friends about the trial, which may be of interest to some here.

I would add that thinking that a sentencing judge would ignore all of OJ's, um, cutting-edge past would be the same as thinking that most jurors would ignore some material relevant remark made in court which they are told to ignore by the judge.
************

Guys

How will OJ be able to continue his hunt for Nicole’s killer now that the law has put him in jail?

Jeepers, Fate gave "The Fugitive" enough the time to catch the bad guy. Not fair.

PS: I’m sure that a lot of folks had the same thought &may’ve expressed it somewhere.)

PPS On a serious note, another old guy with no “priors” who did what OJ did would be thought of as just a jerk in a caper &would probably have been able to avoid any trial &just plead guilty to Jerkdom in the First Degree with no jail time but lots of do-good "community service" like teaching golf to minorities )-:. Just think of this as OJ’s lifetime-achievement award.
10.5.2008 11:43pm
Joshua:
Drackman: Too bad he won't be going to the same prison Michael Vicks at, What a Backfield!!!

And don't forget Rae Carruth. That's quite a "triplets" there.

Drackman (again): Anyway, a long sentence won't matter, come the last days of an Obama administration, Jan 2013 or 2017, he'll get a Pardon.

The POTUS can only pardon people convicted of federal crimes. This is a Nevada state case, so the governor of Nevada would be the one to pardon OJ.
10.5.2008 11:45pm
MR:
<i><blockquote>
Generally, if your property is in someone else's possession, you can only recover it by self-help if that self-help does not involve a breach of the peace. For example, you can't repossess a car (even if they buyer has stopped making payments) by breaking into a garage and taking it. You can only repo from the street.
</blockquote></i>

Just to be clear, can't you repossess chattels during hot pursuit? In fact, can't you use a reasonable degree of force when repossessing chattels during hot pursuit? Obviously, this exception wouldn't apply to OJ. But still, if some guy steals my car, I wanna be confident that I can run him down and beat him up to take it back.
10.5.2008 11:46pm
Duffy Pratt (mail):
This isn't an extreme application of this idea. When I clerked, we had a case where a guy was being tried on three counts of bank robbery. The jury convicted him of one of the three counts, the least serious. At sentencing the government argued 1) that the two counts on which he was acquitted should be included as relevant conduct for the offense under the guidelines, arguing that the judge should make an independent finding, by a preponderance of the evidence; and 2) that he should not get "acceptance of responsibility" because he went to trial, even though the trial came out in his favor on two of the three counts.

On the first point, the judge refused to make the finding the prosecutor wanted. On the second point, the law was clear, and he could not get acceptance of responsibility. Even on the first point, I think the judge may have been on thin ice. I left before the case went through the Circuit Court, but I would not be at all surprised if it were remanded for the court to make a finding on the two counts on which the guy got acquitted.
10.6.2008 3:22am
Samstone4 (mail):
Not sure about US legal system but suspect it will be sufficiently similar to the UK to have the principle of "res judicata".
The principle only applies from one criminal case to other criminal cases and similarly from a civil case to other civil cases. It does not cross between civil and criminal.

Thus in the OJ Simpson case any criminal court will be estopped from treating him as though he were guilty of the 1995 murders. Thus the judge in Las Vegas will be bound by law to find that he did not commit the murder in any criminal consideration.

Samstone4
10.6.2008 4:53am
PDXLawyer (mail):
MR:

Sorry - I'm not sure I can give you the confidence you seek that "hot pursuit" is OK. For one thing, "hot pursuit" is essentially a doctrine in the law of war - and PRIVATE WARS ARE NOT LEGAL in any state. This isn't just some liberal pantywaist innovation - its been a foundational principle of every post-feudal government that I know of.

In the second place, many (though not all) states don't allow the use of deadly force in defense of property. This doesn't come up much, because in most cases of attempted robbery there is a credible threat to the person of the victim. However, in many states you may not, for example, shoot someone from your porch if the are breaking into your car on a public street. See for example Oregon Revised Statutes 161.229. You could, in Oregon and I expect in most states, chase them down and attempt to make a citizen's arrest. However you would not be justified in using deadly force to do so, and if you are dealing with people likely to resist violently you would be putting yourself in a dangerous physical and legal position.

So, I'm sorry but you can't legally chase down amd beat up other people in civil society, even if they are bad guys.
10.6.2008 11:25am
MR:

So, I'm sorry but you can't legally chase down amd beat up other people in civil society, even if they are bad guys.



Wikipedia disagrees with you:

One may use force in order to recover a chattel only if the wrongdoer is either in the process of taking the chattel or the owner of the chattel is in "hot pursuit" of the chattel.

See Wikipedia, "Convesion, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_(law).

All of your observations concerning deadly force are well taken, but I don't think beating someone up is deadly force. Perhaps if I smacked him repeatedly over the head with a blunt object it would be, but that would be more than simply beating him up, now wouldn't it?
10.6.2008 5:07pm
Libertarian Girl (mail) (www):
Many interesting points raised here, and I'm glad that someone finally realized that the judge in this case is a she, not a "he." :)

As far as hot pursuit of chattels goes, I'm thinking this refers to the fact that if someone steals your purse, you're perfectly justified in giving chase and knocking them over to recover your property, and no one is going to prosecute someone who does that.

Furthermore, I don't think it would mean you could beat them to a pulp or purposely harm them in any substantial way. I'm sure there are some interesting legal cases that have come from this concept.

Personally, I don't mind if the judge can look back at some of OJ's previous misdeeds-- I assume this would also include arrests for abusing Nicole prior to the murder trial and trying to sidestep the civil trial judgement, as someone else mentioned, through shell corporations. There's also that book he published where he said how it would've gone down IF he did it.

I think the police and prosecutors in this case already overreacted to this particular incident in question-- I've heard the police even bragged about being able to finally get OJ at the scene afterwards-- and the prosecutors were clearly laying it on thick with so many charges. The kidnapping in question here is not what anyone would consider kidnapping if asked about it separately. Now that it's done with, he is obviously guilty of committing this incident whatever one considers it to be, and the judge should be able to consider the man's whole life.
10.7.2008 3:29pm