Victor Davis Hanson makes some reasonable points in his op ed urging conservatives not to "jump ship" on John McCain. On balance, I think McCain isn't nearly as good as Hanson claims, and Obama not quite as bad. Then again, I'm not a conservative, and so not the target audience for Hanson's column.
Be that as it may, I think Hanson's appeal goes a bit off the rails when he concludes by suggesting that supporting McCain is like "trust[ing] the grating harsh voice of Gandalf detailing the dangers of Saruman rather than the mellifluous charm of the latter who in soothing tones outlines his own victimhood." To paraphrase Lloyd Bentsen: I served with Gandalf in numerous D&D campaigns; I knew Gandalf from reading the Lord of the Rings umpteen times; Gandalf was a friend of mine. And John McCain is no Gandalf.
Related Posts (on one page):
- The Fate of Radagast the Brown:
- John McCain as Gandalf?
On the other hand, in his quest for ultimate power, Gollum killed his best friend. McCain just cheated on his first wife and then dumped her for a rich sugar-mama ("beer-mama"?).
And still, with all his faults, he's infinitely more appealing as a candidate than is McCain, and will (we all hope and cross our fingers) do a far better job of steering this country away from the train-wreck that Bush has given us.
The arrangement of furniture on that ill-fated ship is, too, an important topic. But here we're talking about Gandalf.
heh heh. Oh I slay me.
Yes, my serious Samwise. We will now return to all-too-sober task. We forgot that politics was too serious to discuss with a sense of humor. Commentators from Ben Franklin to Mark Twain lacked your all-important and tightly-focused diligence.
D&D used the same characters as Lord of the Rings?
As for the main post, if McCain is Gandalf, who or what is the Balrog and how soon will it strike?
(Although, if McCain is indeed Gandalf the White by now, the Balrog might have been the Bush campaign in 2000. Except McCain didn't do anything remotely resembling striking them down on a mountain.)
/geekiness overload
I'd nominate George W. Bush for the High Steward. Years of well-meaning and unceasing vigilance against one threat, while neglecting others and allowing Gondor to rot from within.
That being said, Obama sure has a lot of evil friends.
He even died before he could fix his problems, leaving them to us.
Seriously, it has been 20 years and probably 20,000 uses. Its time to give it a rest.
McCain is Gandalf.
That would leave Palin to be Aragon.
Sale- Sold!. (Chicago lawyer becomes ruler of a magic kingdom through a combination of spending a lot of money and outside-the-box thinking.)McCain is Adron e'Kieron from Steven Brust's Dragaera books. Immensely powerful, ambitious, and knowledgeable, but blinded by same to think he's better than he is. Campaigned for supreme executive power on a platform of cleaning up the government's corruption and restoring the natural order of things, but because of mishandling of the situation created a crisis that threatened the entire government.
Obama is Vlad Taltos, from a different set of books in the same world. A member of an outsider group, with strong ties to antigovernment radicals (Vlad's wife becomes a rebel against the government) but not sharing their attitudes, very pragmatic and ruthless but hiding it under an inspirational veneer.
Okay I can do Tolkien analogies as well:
McCain is Boromir a good and noble man who loses himself in the desire for power to do good as he sees it.
Obama is Faramir (of the book not the movie), the younger, calmer leader who resists the lure of the ring for the greater good.
I too have read the Lord of the Rings many times. Palin is no Aragon. More like the 'sheriffs' when the Hobbits return to the Shire.
What could possibly make you think that Obama "resists the lure of the ring"? His whole life has been one continuous power grab.
This is the best reply so far.
Not sure which character, but McCain is more like a Dzur than anything else. And Obama is certainly no Jhereg, maybe an Issola?
For the LoTR geeks, who is Radagast the Brown?
This is the new winner for "geekiest line in VC history."
And believe me, that is some stiff competition.
"Obama had claimed the presumptive nomination. We Fremen had done the impossible, against Sardaukar and imperial shock troops alike. We had brought water to Arrakis. Now the gathered tribes of the Democratic Party—hacks, Teamsters, hat ladies, New Mexicans, residents of those states most nearly resembling Canada, Jews of South Florida, dreadlocks, crewcuts, elderlies and goths, a cowboy or two, sons and daughters of interned Japanese-Americans—had assembled on the plains of Denver to attempt to vanquish old Saruman McCain."
Its the D&D part that makes it really geeky.
Obviously, Palin is the Balrog - appearing suddenly to drag McCain down to oblivion.
And to extend the absurd comparison (and aggravate the staunch GOP defenders here), Obama is Aragorn, Biden is Elrond, Hilary Clinton is Galadriel, and Ted Kennedy is about to be arisen as Gandalf the White.
Lysander Spooner.
"For the LoTR geeks, who is Radagast the Brown?"
For 2008: Al Gore (environmentalist who had bit part in the main action adn went off stage)
McCain is very much a Dzur, but also a Dragon.
And I think all Chicago politicians are Jheregs.
Now, the question is, which Supreme Court justices are Issola and how can we get more of them, and what to do about liberal bias among the Lyorns?
Palin = Eowyn
Brave, perhaps to the point of rashness, and outsiders to the intellectual centers of the world.
Obama = Aragorn or Saruman
Agent of change. Rhetorical skills suggest Saruman, but let's hope not. Aragorn isn't a perfect fit, but he does have a phlegmatic side.
Biden = Pippin
Yeah, right. Obama has manfully resisted ambition the whole time as he climbed to the top of the greasy pole!
I will say this for the last time. You have followed me when I jog, you have called me at all hours of the night, you have slashed my tires, and even left creepy love notes. I am not your friend. In fact, I put a restraining order on you. Now leave me alone.
Gandalf
As an Obama supporter, I do not see him as Faramir. Obama is clearly gunning to be Aragorn, whatever your feelings as to a more appropriate Tolkienesque alter ego might be. I also note that, unlike Mortensen's portrayal of Aragorn, the Aragorn of the books was actually quite ready and willing to assume power. But not the Ring.
George Soros is Sauron. Obama is the Mouth of Sauron.
And since Vlad gave up everything he had by selling out the Jherag to save his wife, I can't really see comparing him to Mr. "Throw inconvenient associates under the bus if they become a threat to my achieving my ambitions".
Not to mention which World of Warcraft class each candidate would play.
Harry Mudd.
I laugh at your pathetic attempts at metaphor and deny they have any power over me!
Thus I proclaim myself freed of the gross shackles of JRR Tolkien and announce myself as a Jedi Knight.
Take that George "Balrog" Soros!
"Not to mention which World of Warcraft class each candidate would play."
I like Mr. T's WoW character class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bsOKH3_DNo
Biden = Pippin.
I'm voting for the guy and I still think that's hilarious.
Fool of a Took!
CiarandDenlane - Obama doesn't have the sac to be Aragorn. When John Edwards thinks you're a pussy, well . . .
Obama: Shaman
Biden: Rogue
Palin: Hunter
Bilbo, through luck, manages to get hold of a ring of invisibility, that ends up threatening the world.
Obama, through means as yet undetermined, manages to make his past virtually invisible to the media and people who get their information that way.
Vlad didn't give up everything he had. He spent an inordinate amount of money to become the uber-boss of a large and profitable area of Adhrilanka.
Can't resist that one.
If Obama's the bad guy, Radagast has to be George Will or Christopher Buckley. Or maybe Dobson, prior to his Palin-driven conversion.
If McCain's the bad guy, then clearly There Can Be Only One; Lieberman is your brownshirted, er, brownrobed, man.
The media are stroking up a disaster by hiding all of these shameful episodes. Because if Obama loses now and yes it is still possible then exactly what will all of his followers think since they have by and large not been informed of his weaknesses. They will think the election has been stolen.
Boy that is gonna be a really cheerful time.
Appparently there must be some there there or else Obama wouldn't be working so hard to discredit the reports.
Saruman is then Brooks, Buckley, Parker, etc...
Notice that this whole scenario, as many above, leaves out the ring. Interesting how that happens. I'm guessing that the LHC is somehow involved.
It also leaves out Aragorn. While Palin is no shirrif but rather a true ranger of the North, stirring faint memories of a more glorious time, and rousing the Army of the Dead, she, alas, lacks Thorongil's century of stealth experience.
I always saw McCain as King Théoden and when he nominated Palin she became my Éowyn.
Obama thus became the Witch-king of Angmar, Lord of the Nazgûl, who gravely wounds Théoden and disses Éowyn with "no living man may hinder me" (doubtless referring to MSM favoritism, if not to the 1,000-year-old prophecy by the Elf-lord Glorfindel) until Éowyn reveals herself to be no man and slays him.
Although they've led a valiant charge, things aren't looking so good for the Rohirrim, but with three weeks, there's still time for Aragorn to show up with reinforcements from South Gondor.
/geek off>
I actually think the more compelling scenario is Obama as Aragorn (shady past and all, you know those rangers...) uniting Rohan (red America) and Gondor (Blue America) against the threat of Mordor as above.
Remember that Sauron was the servant of Morgoth. A lesser evil.
Currently Obama is Sauron of the Silmarion, not LOTR. The one who seduces the Numenorians. He will lose his fair shape in good time.
First, VDH was comparing McCain to Gandalf in one aspect, not to suggest an overall equivalence, and certainly not a plot equivalence. His point is that we may not like listening to McCain, but there is precedent for the good and wise to not necessarily seem the most attractive. There is a suggestion that Obama, or progressives in general, sound more plausible and wise, but gives Saruman as an example of where this was an illusion. That suggestion is not explicit, and I don't think Hanson is just being sly. He is backing away from making the analogy too precise and neat. It is entirely permissable, even preferable, to use fictional characters for such evocations.
Second, the art of analogizing real persons onto to fictional, mythic, or historical characters is not one-dimensional. Striking upon a single characteristic of the modern person and tying them to a hero or villain with that one thread is shallow. (A few of you did try to go a little deeper). The fictitious character has his own place in the story, with allies and enemies as well as an emotional association. When one mentions Gollum or Aragorn, their entire characters get drawn into the discussion, not just the one aspect you focus on. As these other aspects of their character seldom fit even remotely to the modern character, the analogy is reduced to a rather middle-school taunt "No, you're like Gollum." What made the Mad Magazine satires (sometimes) work was attempt to fit story to story, rather than just forcing in what would be cool to say. It would take some thinking to fit Sarah Palin (or anyone) into LOTR. Possibilities must be considered and rejected. It is an art that, if not done well, should not be done.
To learn something of the art, you have to try a complete casting of some culturally iconic story, like The Wizard Of Oz or The Wind In The Willows.
No more, please. This was painful for a literature major to read.
Remember that Sauron was the servant of Morgoth. A lesser evil.
Morgoth = The ZOG?!!!
Posts like this one make it hard to promote Ilya as a credible match for Orin.
You're taking lighthearted posts and comments all too seriously. Taking your bait, I'll add that when a law professor writes a post comparing a political figure to a literary figure (and a fantasy figure at that), you have to expect it to be quirky. I don't expect the posters here to show the kind of sophisticated literary analysis you'd hope to get in a literature program.
I'm the only one who mentioned Gollum, and I compared him to McCain in four ways. How many ways is enough? Do you you require a full essay, or is a quick, light-hearted post enough for a comment to a blog?
I guess you already answered my question?
Palin is a Holy spec Paladin, albeit very much of the Arthas holier-than-thou type. Which of course makes McCain Ner'Zhul/the Lich King, and I can see him playing a Destruction spec Warlock since they have the most firepower. The Republicans are the Scourge, at one point super-effective and dominating but now decaying and splintered off into factions.
And of course Obama would have to be Thrall and the Democrats his Horde, and I can see him as a Prot Warrior since they always need to be at the center of attention. That makes Biden Cairne Bloodhoof, wizened and at the same time full of bull, and I can see him playing a shaman--there's a lot they can do, but none of it really stands out.
Here's to hoping that the Alliance of non-partisans comes together and defeats both the Horde and the Scourge in 2012.
Though for shear geekiness and humor (at least from a democratic perspective) I don't think this thread beats this (Though Guiliani should be one of the gentlemen from Hush as suggested in the comments)
If he is not lucky, or if the Democrat policies are too toxic, then get ready for Great Depression II.
On a side note, if Israel gets nuked and President Obama says something to the tune of, "Israel must show restraint," I will be very, very put out!
By the way, what ever happened to Radagast the Brown anyway?
He is just as good as the MSM these days.
I'm not sure which character best fits for Obama, but Cheney has my vote for Denethor, the good steward driven mad by fear of the enemy.
Yes, of course it was light-hearted. And anytime people make a joke with mean intent we should just pretend it's not there, right? That way the humorist gets full deniability while enjoying the full benefit of all innuendo.
No go. I've read the appropriate passage of Screwtape, thanks.
He got diverted from his mission of fighting Sauron because he became too interested in animals and plants. Ultimately he ended up shacking up with Tom Bombadil. It's not clear at this point what the ME laws are on gay marriage.
No, I see the principals of the 2008 Presidential campaign as characters from Thomas Harlan's The Oath of Empire.
Barack Obama is Prince Maxian Atreus. Means to do good, but ends up causing calamity and catastrophe.
Ayes would be the Persian sorcerer Abdmachus. Maxian's advisor, and betrayer.
Hilary Clinton is the Duchess Anastasia. Spy master, agent of a mysterious sisterhood based on the island of Thera.
Bill Clinton? The Emperor and god Galen Astreus, older brother to Maxian Atreus.
Ending this version of the analogies, Sarah Palin is Thyatis Flavius. The last of a once noble line, and agent of the spymaster Anastasia and member of the Sisterhood.
Think I'll be expanding on this. BTW, I think Amazon has copies of the books.
Oh, and Soros is the vampire Dahak. Though exactly what Dahak is is not really made clear. If you'd like to think of Soros as Sauron from LotR, keep in mind that Dahak serves (or served, for he is convinced that he freed himself from the bonds) dread Cthulhu. (That's right, tOoE is also a mythos story. :) )
"Of course, that makes Franklin Roosevelt Fëanor. He's responsible for everything that's wrong (and right) with the current mess in the first place, with his Bretton Woods agreement, national security state, atom bomb, UN, and so forth."
Wins the thread.
LM,
"Who'd have guessed there are so many geeks on
this sitethe internet?"There, fixed.
Duffy Pratt,
In Tolkien lore, Radagast is also known as Radagast the Simple.
"He got diverted from his mission of fighting Sauron because he became too interested in animals and plants."
Al Gore, natch.
I wrote:
But I grant you that they overlap. I also don't claim to be Mark Twain. I'm just a lawyer taking a stab at a joke. I don't think the comment was all that bad, but re-reading it, I see why Jon Stewart is making a ton of money with his own show, and why I'm making blog comments before work.
Yep. That's one reason humor is powerful. If you want to do a serious post on why a humorist's post was wrong, you have to explain why it was wrong. If the post was more simple minded than simple and direct, explain why.
"Yep. That's one reason humor is powerful. If you want to do a serious post on why a humorist's post was wrong, you have to explain why it was wrong. If the post was more simple minded than simple and direct, explain why."
Dark humor is, by definition, not light-hearted.
Hoosier: Too strange a premise to comment.
KRS: worst post ever
Waldensian: This is the new winner for "geekiest line in VC history."
Xanthippas: Tolkien is presently rolling over in his grave.
LM: Posts like this one make it hard to promote Ilya as a credible match for Orin.
Nope, the winner is Gandalf himself: Ilya . . . I am not your friend. In fact, I put a restraining order on you. Now leave me alone.
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