Laches Proves To Be the Most Valuable Player:

In Pro Football Inc. v. Harjo, several American Indians were challenging the validity of the Washington Redskins trademark on the ground that it was "disparaging," which trademarks aren't allowed to be. (The federal trademark statute provides that, among other things, marks generally aren't allowed when, among other things, they "[c]onsist[] of or comprise[] immoral, deceptive, or scandalous matter; or matter which may disparage or falsely suggest a connection with persons, living or dead, institutions, beliefs, or national symbols, or bring them into contempt, or disrepute.") If the plaintiffs had won, that wouldn't have legally barred the trademark owners from using the mark; but it would have stripped the owners of some of the legal rights they'd have to police the mark against infringers, and thus would have given the owners some incentive to switch to a fully legally protected mark.

The trouble is that the challengers apparently waited for a long time in bringing the lawsuit, which triggers "laches, an equitable defense that applies where there is “(1) lack of diligence by the party against whom the defense is asserted, and (2) prejudice to the party asserting the defense.”" The district court held in Pro-Football's favor, and the D.C. Circuit just affirmed.

Other American Indians who just turned 18 could still bring the same substantive claim, since they would not have exhibited any "lack of diligence." Still, this is a pretty big victory for Pro Football. Even if it has only delayed the possible cancellation of the mark -- not at all clear, since they might eventually win on the merits -- it has gotten many extra years during which to exploit it (and I take it that the league's judgment in defending this lawsuit has been that the Redskins mark is much more valuable, at least right now, than any replacement mark would be).

Thanks to How Appealing for the pointer.

Strick:
My ancestors were both Vikings and Cowboys. Do I have a course of action? Surely the stereotypical blood thirsty (and horned-helmeted inaccuracate) depiction of Vikings "may disparage or falsely suggest a connection with persons, living or dead, institutions, beliefs, or national symbols, or bring them into contempt, or disrepute". Most Vikings were farmers and the typical depiction is an over simplification that ignores their rich culture and accomplishments.

And the Cowboys. What can I say? Just look at the way they folded at the end of last season...
5.15.2009 2:08pm
Raffi (mail) (www):
I think it was the Redskins (Pro football is their corporate entity) rather than the league who are defending the mark, though I'm sure the league itself would be no less implacable.

I've always liked Tony Kornheiser's solution - keep the name, change the logo to a potato.
5.15.2009 2:14pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
Okay, so now they just have to recruit a cousin or some such who is 17 or so, wait a bit and file on their 18th birthday. Then the entire game gets to start over. The trademark board will again find the mark disparaging, the defendant will again go to court and without a latches defense who knows what will happen.
5.15.2009 2:24pm
einhverfr (mail) (www):
Darn, and after reading the title, I thought this would be a post about legal doctrines of laches.....
5.15.2009 2:24pm
einhverfr (mail) (www):
Now I see I didn't read long enough to see it was :-(
5.15.2009 2:25pm
Gabriel McCall (mail):
Most Vikings were farmers and the typical depiction is an over simplification that ignores their rich culture and accomplishments.

Most medieval Scandinavians were farmers; however, the word Viking is not synonymous with Scandinavian. The word refers specifically to those who chose to engage in pillage and rapine, and derives from the word wic, a temporary camp set up while they were out on a tour of raiding.
5.15.2009 2:29pm
http://volokh.com/?exclude=davidb :

Still, this is a pretty big victory for Pro Football.

Heh. Define victory.
5.15.2009 2:49pm
PatHMV (mail) (www):
I would have preferred to have the court toss this out on its ass on the merits, rather than continue to waste time. If standing is reduced to anybody who feels offended by a trademark, then why waste time forcing the professionally offended to dig up a suitable plaintiff?
5.15.2009 2:54pm
Arkady:
Damn, for a minute I thought you were going to talk about this. Which would make sense in the football context.
5.15.2009 2:56pm
KenB (mail):
I see the name as a compliment. Otherwise, I'd be offended by the name of my high school team: Texans.
5.15.2009 2:58pm
CMH:

Heh. Define victory.


Victory. n. The opposite of what the Washington Redskins usually achieve.
5.15.2009 3:04pm
JB:
Strick:
"Most Vikings were farmers and the typical depiction is an over simplification that ignores their rich culture and accomplishments."

To nitpick, "viking" is a job description, like "farmer," meaning one who engages in exploring/piracy. It's pretty much a direct translation of "Raiders." "Vikings" may have been part-time farmers, but the term is not an ethnic term at all. The equivalent would be tall people suing the New York Giants or something.
5.15.2009 3:06pm
U.Va. Grad:
Victory. n. The opposite of what the Washington Redskins usually achieve.

I wonder if there's a word that means "victory" in the lost language of Bengali...
5.15.2009 3:07pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
I'm curious about the issue of whether a fresh plaintiff would eliminate the laches defense. Laches is an equitable doctrine based as much on the prejudice caused to the defendant by a delay in litigation as any notion of the culpability of plaintiffs for delaying. The court found both that the team would be subject to significant economic prejudice if it had to abandon the trademark and that the delay was evidentially prejudicial due to the death in the interim of former Redskins President Edward Bennett Williams, with the resulting loss of his testimony as to whether the trademark was disparaging at the time of registration. It seems to me that these two factors would carry the same weight with a fresh plaintiff. So, although a fresh plaintiff would presumably be able to re-initiate litigation, I wonder whether the decision on laches would ultimately be any different.

There is another reason that I suspect that the team need not worry too much about the outcome of a revived suit, namely that, as I understand it, the question is whether the mark was disparaging at the time of registration, not whether it is currently disparaging. Harjo et al. have adduced evidence that "redskin" is currently considered disparaging (though it is questionable whether it is disparaging in context), but they have failed to adduce any evidence that it was disparaging at the time of registration. Their claim that it has always been disparaging is not only unsupported by evidence but has been conclusively refuted. (See my LL post summarizing Ives Goddard's treatment of this question.) Unless they are able to adduce new evidence on this question, I would think that a new suit would fail, quite possibly on summary judgment.
5.15.2009 3:15pm
geokstr (mail):

Bill Poser:
There is another reason that I suspect that the team need not worry too much about the outcome of a revived suit, namely that, as I understand it, the question is whether the mark was disparaging at the time of registration, not whether it is currently disparaging.

Tell that to Sambo's, whose name was made by combining the the first names of the founders, Samuel and Beauregard.
5.15.2009 3:23pm
Strick:
A fine point. But in popular culture, all Scandinavians were Vikings just as all Texans were cowboys. Does the popular image of "redskins" pertain to all native Americans or just the warriors?

All these became symbols of different groups of people. Heck, when someone says "redneck", is a Presbyterian the first thing that comes to mind? It's what the word originally meant.
5.15.2009 3:31pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):
<blockquote>
Tell that to Sambo's, whose name was made by combining the the first names of the founders, Samuel and Beauregard.
</blockquote>

I think this confuses two issues: whether the mark was considered disparaging at the time of registration, which I think was the case with Sambo's, and whether the etymology of the mark was disparaging, which as you explain it, it was not. In other words, if Sambo's was a blend of the founders' names, it may not have been intended to be disparaging, but it may nonetheless have been perceived as disparaging at the time of registration.
5.15.2009 3:32pm
cd:

If standing is reduced to anybody who feels offended by a trademark, then why waste time forcing the professionally offended to dig up a suitable plaintiff?


It is not true that anyone who feels offended by a trademark has standing to challenge its registration.
5.15.2009 3:35pm
Henry679 (mail):
It would be nice if someone here actually acknowledged that some Native Americans could legitimately find the term problematic. This is not like Illini, Utes or Seminoles, people. Maybe the NFL, in an exercise of common decency, could do something without the threat of court action.

Oh, I guess I am a liberal now. I'll just wander off and watch the New York Hebes/Detroit Darkies game.
5.15.2009 3:37pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

It would be nice if someone here actually acknowledged that some Native Americans could legitimately find the term problematic.


I for one do not question that some Native Americans sincerely find "redskin" disparaging. I'm not sure that anyone else here has questioned this. On the other hand, if "legitimately" means "with reference to history" rather than "sincerely", it is quite clear that the term was originally not disparaging and that Harjo is blowing smoke in claiming that it was.
5.15.2009 3:44pm
Henry679 (mail):
"Colored" was not originally disparaging--hell, it is still in NAACP. Neither was "darky" (see Stephen Foster).

Let's try them out now. You first.

Why do I get the impression this thread is larded with smirking white boys who feel put upon by ANOTHER minority, AGAIN (cue: loud audible sigh).

Just dump the damned name already, it's embarrassing.
5.15.2009 3:49pm
alkali (mail):
To my mind, this laches ruling is hard to reconcile with NJ v. NY (1998) where, in a case under the Court's original jurisdiction, the US Supreme Court reassigned part of Liberty Island from NY to NJ after the issue had seemed settled for more than a century. Justice Stevens argued for application of laches in his dissent in that case and I always felt he was clearly right. I suppose some argument can be made to distinguish the cases based on prejudice to the respective parties involved, but I tend to think the better equitable principle is after many decades pass, laches bars relief.
5.15.2009 3:53pm
Jay:
How does the fact that Stephen Foster used it mean it was not disparaging?
5.15.2009 3:55pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

Let's try them out now. You first.


The issue under discussion is the legal issue, not the ethical or political issue of the team should do. I don't think that it is fair to make any inference as to what EV or most commentors think about the non-legal issues, much less what attitudes we may have.
5.15.2009 3:59pm
Henry679 (mail):
It was a common term considered non-offensive at the time.

Pickaninny was another, which you can hear used in classic 1940s films such as His Girl Friday and The Philadelphia Story in plainly obvious non-derogatory usages.

Why can't anybody here just answer my freaking question instead of trying to make excuses for this?
5.15.2009 4:06pm
Henry679 (mail):
Ah, the lawyer's gambit. Of course.

MY point was that the NFL should sack up and do the obviously right thing already. If this is not the concern of lawyers, so be it.
5.15.2009 4:07pm
PeterWimsey (mail):
Tell that to Sambo's, whose name was made by combining the the first names of the founders, Samuel and Beauregard.


This would be a better point if they hadn't decorated their restaurants with pictures of little black boys and tigers. The outside of the Sambos in the town I grew up with hand a giant plastic black boy holding a stack of pancakes outside.

Here's a link to what people find so offensive about the name:
5.15.2009 4:12pm
PeterWimsey (mail):
Link didn't work - try this: http://tinyurl.com/q3gvs8
5.15.2009 4:12pm
Henry679 (mail):
Oh yeah, on "darky":

Wikipedia
5.15.2009 4:29pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

Why can't anybody here just answer my freaking question instead of trying to make excuses for this?

What's your question? If it is here at all it is submerged in all your statements of position.
5.15.2009 4:32pm
Henry679 (mail):
Bill, here it is again, so even you can understand it:

Why won't the NFL, in an exercise of common decency, do something without the threat of court action to get rid of this name?

Is not the kind of question lawyers are prepared to address? If so, I have another question--what does that say about lawyers as moral agents?
5.15.2009 4:41pm
Arnostocles:

Pickaninny was another, which you can hear used in classic 1940s films such as His Girl Friday and The Philadelphia Story in plainly obvious non-derogatory usages.


The word survives today. In the English-speaking Caribbean, in patois, the word is "pickney." It just means "child," not even "black child," [although usually the "child" it refers to is black]. It's very commonly used, and has no derogatory meaning at all.
5.15.2009 4:44pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
Henry679 (mail),

Because organizations do not easily give up on marks they have put a lot of investment energy and money into. It may also be that they have done research and decided whatever trivial amount of goodwill they would receive from such a move would be negated by fan reaction.

"The Redskins are so pathetic they even lost their own name."

If you've watched this at all at the university level the wider reaction has not been all that positive. The NFL has a greater ability to resist than individual schools, especially since the NCAA is against them where the league is with the team here.
5.15.2009 4:52pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

Why won't the NFL, in an exercise of common decency, do something without the threat of court action to get rid of this name?


I can't speak for the team or the league, but one answer should be pretty obvious from the opinion, namely that it would cost them a great deal of money to do so. I have no expertise in this area, but the court seems to accept the claim that they have a great deal invested in the Redskins trademark and that changing the name of the team would both throw away that investment and have considerable up front cost.

Purely as a matter of speculation, a second factor might be that the way the case for a change has been argued by Harjo et al. makes the team out as having been racist, so that changing the name would be an admission of past racism. Insofar as the team considers the charge of racism false, I can see it being reluctant to take an action that would imply otherwise.

I don't see why you see the failure to discuss this issue as a "gambit". This is a legal blog. EV's post is about a technical legal issue. You may not be interested in technical legal issues, but other people are. Discussion of such issues is not evasion of other issues any more than discussion of, say, knitting on a knitting blog constitutes evasion of the genocide in Darfur or the situation of women in Afghanistan.
5.15.2009 4:52pm
American Psikhushka (mail):
It's a good thing fraud and other torts have the "discovery" component - things like statutes of limitations and "laches" are delayed until the fraud is discovered.

Parties guilty of torts and crimes shouldn't benefit because they are able to keep their crimes and torts hidden. Especially when they committed other crimes, torts, and rights violations to conceal the initial, earlier ones - evidence tampering, forgery, additional acts of fraud, extrinsic fraud, tampering with Constitutional rights like Notice/Counsel, conflicts of interest, breaches of fiduciary duty, legal malpractice, etc.

On a sidenote: "Viking" necessarily implies a raider of germanic, scandinavian, or northwestern european origin rather than any kind of generic raider.
5.15.2009 4:55pm
Henry679 (mail):
Arnostocles:

And "colored" is used in South Africa. So what?

We are talking about the US of A.

Did anybody bother to read the Wikipedia link I posted about "darky iconography"? It was all very acceptable. Then the NAACP, and others, began to complain about it, and, not too long later, it wasn't acceptable. Period.

There isn't going to be a "Washington Redskins" 50 years from now, nor likely even in 25 years. It is inevitable. So, why must the NFL be pushed into doing the decent thing? What the hell is wrong with it?

Yes, I know the answer, but I'd like someone to acknowledge the reason for their moral paralysis.

PS:

Sorry to annoy all you lawyers and wanna-be lawyers with moral arguments.
5.15.2009 4:56pm
Bill Poser (mail) (www):

Bill, here it is again, so even you can understand it:

Why won't the NFL, in an exercise of common decency, do something without the threat of court action to get rid of this name?


Incidentally, I think that you are on rather thin ground complaining about my inability to understand a question that you did not in fact ask.
5.15.2009 4:57pm
micdeniro (mail):

geokstr
Tell that to Sambo's, whose name was made by combining the the first names of the founders, Samuel and Beauregard.


I will, when I eat there tomorrow morning.

The original Sambo's is still open and thriving here in Santa Barbara.
5.15.2009 4:59pm
George Smith:
And in Kansas City and Atlanta, they are watching very closely.
5.15.2009 5:00pm
Henry679 (mail):
Bill, now you are getting there.

The league is prepared to perpetuate a racially derogatory term for as long as it can because it believes there is more money to be made/saved that way. Exactly. This is, frankly, despicable. Is an effort to shield this despicable conduct in the courts beyond the discussion in a "legal blog"?

How odd.
5.15.2009 5:05pm
dmv (www):
George Smith:

When I read your comment, I thought:

What's wrong with "Falcons"?

Nap time!
5.15.2009 5:05pm
Henry679 (mail):
Bill, you should also go back and read what I previously posted.
5.15.2009 5:09pm
PatHMV (mail) (www):
Henry, why has it become offensive now? How many Native Americans find it offensive, and how many don't mind it at all? What is your standard for deciding when it the word has become offensive?

Are you suggesting that the team is using it for the purpose of offending or insulting or disparaging Native Americans?

As a general matter, words like "pikanniny" (or however you spell it) were always offensive and used in a derogatory sense, even if being derogatory was socially acceptable at the time. Other words, like "colored" were clearly NOT considered offensive at the time. They have become somewhat tainted because, I presume, some subset of European Americans used them derisively, to refer to "the blacks" or "the coloreds." With time, the use of those adjectives as nouns (and the omission of the following noun "people") came to be taken as offensive, at least depending on whether an African American was speaking them or a European American was. Can you provide some similar history for "Redskins"?

Can you provide any objective evidence about why this word is so tainted that it cannot be trademarked? Your repeated question takes it as a given that the word is so horrendous that it cannot be used. Yet you offer neither evidence nor an objective rule to be used in making those determinations.
5.15.2009 5:09pm
PatHMV (mail) (www):
In short, Henry, why do you believe that the word "Redskins" as used today for the name of a sports team is inherently racially derogatory, and thus (according to you) terribly immoral?
5.15.2009 5:11pm
Henry679 (mail):
Soronel--just noticed your comment.

I already said that "Redskins" is not like the tribal names used by some schools, so why you brought that up I do not know. It is much more akin to "Darkies".

Maybe CalTech could become "The Yellow Peril".

Guess we shouldn't wait around too long for that, huh?
5.15.2009 5:13pm
Arnostocles:

Arnostocles:

And "colored" is used in South Africa. So what?


I wasn't making a point. I was just sharing something I knew about a word discussed in the comments.

But I agree, just because some black Americans in the Virgin Islands use the term "pickney" [or some people in South Africa use "colored"] doesn't mean it's appropriate for profitable use by a sports team here in mainstream/mainland America. "Redskins" is offensive and shouldn't be used. The Cleveland Indians logo/caricature is also ridiculous.

The "we won't be able to sell merchandise if we change our logo" argument is weak. Teams change their colors, jerseys, and logos all the time.
5.15.2009 5:13pm
Henry679 (mail):
Pat,

For the same reason it came to be seen that "darky" was no longer acceptable. Is that answer too hard or too easy to understand?

Let me repeat something I said earlier:

"Why do I get the impression this thread is larded with smirking white boys who feel put upon by ANOTHER minority, AGAIN (cue: loud audible sigh)."
5.15.2009 5:16pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
And if Redskins is to be considered so tainted, how long until someone goes after the NAACP or United Negro College Fund? I haven't looked but would assume that both organizations have at least some marks.

Is the standard different based on whether the organization is commercial or advocate?
5.15.2009 5:16pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):
"Why do I get the impression this thread is larded with smirking white boys who feel put upon by ANOTHER minority, AGAIN (cue: loud audible sigh)."


Perhaps we are just tired of ever more PC crap. There is no right to not be offended.

If someone got the team to change their name through boycotts or other forms of public pressure rather than attempting to use government to do the same there would be far less interest.
5.15.2009 5:21pm
Henry679 (mail):
Soronel,

I raised the NAACP in this thread long ago. And your feint at ignorance (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt, for now) is unconvincing. So unless you are truly aggrieved at your inability to respectably refer to African Americans as "colored people" while they still can, please, take it to the curb.
5.15.2009 5:21pm
Festooned with Christmas tree ornaments:
Henry,
Getting rid of the Redskins name is pointless. It would enrage tens of thousands of football fans, just so a few PC-types can feel good about themselves. Not to mention it would cost the league a lot of money. It's unfortunate that the team has a racist name, but c'est la vie.
5.15.2009 5:21pm
Henry679 (mail):
Soronel,

So a request for common decency is "PC crap"?

QED.

'Night, all.
5.15.2009 5:22pm
Arkady:
Some alternatives:

Washington Rednecks
Washington Roundeyes
Washington Whiteeyes
Washington Honkies
Washington Spades
Washington Hebes
Washington Kikes
Washington Nigras
Washington Niggers
Washington Darkies
Washington Wops
Washington Guineas
Washington Dagos
Washington Harps
Washington Paddies
Washington Peckerwoods
Washington Coons
Washington Macacas
Washington Gooks
Washington Chinks
Washington Nips
Washington Crackers
Washington Hymies
Washington Frogs
Washington Yids
Washington Gringos
Washington Ofays
Waashingto Bohunks
Washington Micks
Washington Towelheads
Washington Spics
Washington Wetbacks
Washington Beaners
Washington Polacks
Washington Assholes (not really on point and too ambiguous)
5.15.2009 5:25pm
PersonFromPorlock:
Why not just dye the team red? Drop the name "Redskins" as pertaining to Indians and rename the team "Redskins" as pertaining to their one-time red skins.

No, I'm not serious. Not too serious, anyway.
5.15.2009 5:32pm
micdeniro (mail):


Henry679
Maybe CalTech could become "The Yellow Peril".




Caltech, like every good engineering-heavy institute, is and will always be the Beavers.

Whoops.
5.15.2009 5:32pm
Soronel Haetir (mail):

Washington Frogs


Given their record I think you've got the right answer here.
5.15.2009 5:49pm
Mark in Colorado:
Henry679,

To employ your sort of language, why do I get the impression you are a smirking, PC-obsessed busy body who has annointed yourself Big White Brother to teach those ignorant Indians what to think?

90% of American Indians report that they are not offended by the term "Redskin" as used by the NFL team. I submit that they are a better judge of the offensiveness (or not) of the word than you are.
5.15.2009 5:57pm
ASlyJD (mail):
And the most important question that must be answered -- is the mark WASHINGTON REDSKINS more or less offensive than a condom colored like an American flag? (26 USPQ2d 1216)
5.15.2009 6:10pm
Strick:
Oh, well. My poorly framed, tongue-in-check point referenced the trend in local circles, public schools, colleges, to avoid human based mascots at all. Someone's always offended about something. No doubt this will eventually overtake all of professional sports, too.

On the other hand, I hope no one's implying that the language above applies only to racial or ethnic groups when they explain about Vikings. Surely any reasonably recognized group of people would have similar grounds.

For instance, imagine if Washington abandoned the Redskins mascot to adopt the Shysters (DC, more lawyers per captia, etc.) complete with a guy in a foam rubber shark in a cheap suit as a mascot...
5.15.2009 6:24pm
American Psikhushka (mail):
Strick-

For instance, imagine if Washington abandoned the Redskins mascot to adopt the Shysters (DC, more lawyers per captia, etc.) complete with a guy in a foam rubber shark in a cheap suit as a mascot...

Of course you would have to explain to many, if not most people that the term is rooted in Shakespearean anti-semitism. It's gotten into the common parlance so much that I wasn't even aware of the connection until you pointed it out just now. And I'm pretty familiar with Shakespeare. Sheesh, another unusable word. Are fraud, swindler, and chisler still OK?
5.15.2009 7:00pm
keypusher64 (mail):
There is an obvious point: people choose sports team names because they have positive connotations, not negative ones. Even if pickaninny was not a derogative term at one time (and I have my doubts about that), I would be very surprised if it was a common choice for a team name, ever. The wide use of Indian-derived names for teams stems from the fact that Indians are admired. So analogizing Redskin to shyster, darky or pickaninny is simply not right IMO.

With that out of the way, the question is whether Redskin (as opposed to Indian or Chief, say) is derogatory. Is it? Justify your answer.
5.15.2009 7:28pm
David M. Nieporent (www):
Of course you would have to explain to many, if not most people that the term is rooted in Shakespearean anti-semitism. It's gotten into the common parlance so much that I wasn't even aware of the connection until you pointed it out just now. And I'm pretty familiar with Shakespeare. Sheesh, another unusable word. Are fraud, swindler, and chisler still OK?
Shyster is indeed derogatory, but it does not derive from Shylock (who, of course, was not a lawyer).
5.15.2009 7:28pm
Dave N (mail):
And "colored" is used in South Africa. So what?

We are talking about the US of A.

Did anybody bother to read the Wikipedia link I posted about "darky iconography"? It was all very acceptable. Then the NAACP, and others, began to complain about it, and, not too long later, it wasn't acceptable. Period.
I am trying to remember. What exactly does the "C" in "NAACP" stand for?
5.15.2009 7:30pm
Arkady:

Of course you would have to explain to many, if not most people that the term is rooted in Shakespearean anti-semitism.


Not really. I think you're confusing 'shyster' with 'shylock' (for moneylender). Lawyers may have been held in such low regard in William's time they didn't need a sobriquet--the very word 'lawyer' was derisive enough, as witness:


Dick: The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.

Cade: Nay, that I mean to do. Is not this a lamentable
thing, that of the skin of an innocent lamb should
be made parchment? that parchment, being scribbled
o'er, should undo a man? Some say the bee stings:
but I say, 'tis the bee's wax; for I did but seal
once to a thing, and I was never mine own man
since.


Henry VI, Part 2 Act IV, Scene 2
5.15.2009 7:33pm
Dave N (mail):
Arkady,

Remember though, that Dick the Butcher was at heart an anarchist--and one clear understanding of this often misquoted set of lines is that Dick the Butcher was calling for the collapse of civilization--and the legal profession was an obstacle to that quest, which was Shakespeare's point.
5.15.2009 7:49pm
Arkady:
Yeah, Dave, I know that interpretation. But I think Cade's lines call it into question.
5.15.2009 7:52pm
Arkady:
Or at least call into question the claim that Shakespere held lawyers and lawyering in good regard.
5.15.2009 7:58pm
Tom Perkins (mail):

Why won't the NFL, in an exercise of common decency, do something without the threat of court action to get rid of this name?


Because it would be bowing to an indecency to do it.


The league is prepared to perpetuate a racially derogatory term for as long as it can because it believes there is more money to be made/saved that way.


I think you cannot show it to be a derogatory term either as used by the team, or as seen by fans, or as seen by the general public, and for that matter as seen by most More Native Then Thou Americans.


For the same reason it came to be seen that "darky" was no longer acceptable. Is that answer too hard or too easy to understand?


Because a minority ethnic group decided it could increase it's political advantage by claiming the moral power to define the meaning of words as they pertained to them? Their success without recourse to law, but through persuasion, this legitimizes them to the extent that effort is legitimate*.


So a request for common decency is "PC crap"?


It isn't decent to concede through the color of law such power to any ethnic group, and it is especially pernicious to concede such authority to such a terribly small subset of an ethnic group--not to mention it entirely undermines your own argument that it is such a subset.

Even if the proportions were reversed, their sole just recourse is to protest in a manner consistent with the constitution--the exercise of their actual rights, which are rightfully the same as everyone else's--and if the general population should ignore that, that's how that cookie crumbles; it is a far more indecent thing for the government to police such things.

*And the jokes made by persons of all skin colors about what words are allowed this year show the degree to which the cynicism also associated with the notion is appreciated.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, &pfpp
5.16.2009 10:13am
Tom Perkins (mail):
@Henry


Why won't the NFL, in an exercise of common decency, do something without the threat of court action to get rid of this name?


Because it would be bowing to an indecency to do it.


The league is prepared to perpetuate a racially derogatory term for as long as it can because it believes there is more money to be made/saved that way.


I think you cannot show it to be a derogatory term either as used by the team, or as seen by fans, or as seen by the general public, and for that matter as seen by most More Native Then Thou Americans.


For the same reason it came to be seen that "darky" was no longer acceptable. Is that answer too hard or too easy to understand?


Because a minority ethnic group decided it could increase it's political advantage by claiming the moral power to define the meaning of words as they pertained to them? Their success without recourse to law, but through persuasion, this legitimizes them to the extent that effort is legitimate*.


So a request for common decency is "PC crap"?


It isn't decent to concede through the color of law such power to any ethnic group, and it is especially pernicious to concede such authority to such a terribly small subset of an ethnic group--not to mention that the facy it si such a small subset entirely undermines your own argument.

Even if the proportions were reversed, their sole just recourse is to protest in a manner consistent with the constitution--the exercise of their actual rights, which are rightfully the same as everyone else's--and if the general population should ignore that, that's how that cookie crumbles; it is a far more indecent thing for the government to police such things.

*And the jokes made by persons of all skin colors about what words are allowed this year show the degree to which the cynicism also associated with the notion is appreciated.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, &pfpp
5.16.2009 10:16am

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