Is Minnesota's Long Nightmare Over?

It appears so (at least insofar as not having two Senators is a "nightmare" and the U.S. Supreme Court declines to enter the fray).

[OOPS. I see now that Eugene beat me to this.]

Real American (mail):
no. the nightmare is just beginning.
6.30.2009 3:02pm
Pragmatist:
I don't know what all the Minnesotans think, but I would vastly prefer no senator to Franken. Just beginning indeed...
6.30.2009 3:19pm
Anononymous314:
Long nightmare over? I was enjoying the half realization of a dream. We were doing just fine without Franken, let's keep him out and give Klobuchar the boot as well. They serve no Constitutional function, no longer being representatives of the State of Minnesota, and only serve to do damage to the fabric of the Republic, as they serve the same interests as the House, but have greater power to do it with.
6.30.2009 3:30pm
Oren:

I don't know what all the Minnesotans think, but I would vastly prefer no senator to Franken. Just beginning indeed...


I think it's quite clear than Minnesotans are split exactly evenly between the candidates to within the precision of the measuring apparatus.

Of course, "no senator" was not an option (pesky Art I), so we don't know their opinions on that matter.
6.30.2009 3:40pm
martinned (mail) (www):

I don't know what all the Minnesotans think, but I would vastly prefer no senator to Franken. Just beginning indeed...

How very pragmatic of you, Pragmatist.
6.30.2009 3:45pm
interruptus:

I think it's quite clear than Minnesotans are split exactly evenly between the candidates to within the precision of the measuring apparatus.

They were split evenly at election time, but they're not split evenly on whether it was better to keep the seat empty while Coleman kept pursuing appeals, or if it would've been better for Coleman to concede, and have Franken seated: seating Franken is far more popular.
6.30.2009 3:48pm
Froggyprager (mail) (www):
I agree with Oren, while Franken was declared the "winner" the election was basically a tie and we don't really know who got the most votes. That said, I am pleased with the outcome.
6.30.2009 3:51pm
Thorley Winston (mail) (www):
I think it's quite clear than Minnesotans are split exactly evenly between the candidates to within the precision of the measuring apparatus.

Of course, "no senator" was not an option (pesky Art I), so we don't know their opinions on that matter.


I voted for Coleman largely because I didn’t want to risk Obama having a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate so I would prefer having no Senator to having Franken (or Klobuchar).

I suppose that those who believe that the “recount” was a farce could always respond by boycotting the 2010 census so that Minnesotans are “undercounted” and perhaps lose a House seat and an electoral vote to a red or purple State.
6.30.2009 3:54pm
Anononymous314:
Boycotting the census is probably the best way to withdraw the veil of legitimacy that the federal government has cloaked itself under. Not only would it be non-violent, but it would be seen as morally correct by more of the populace than similar non-violent means of resistance to tyranny, such as refusal to pay taxes. If the federal government had absolutely no way of discerning how to apportion those that claim to "represent" us, the farce would be readily apparent to the less sophisticated.
6.30.2009 3:59pm
Daryl Herbert (www):
It's official: Democrats are allowed to double-count ballots favoring their candidate. Law of the land.

Democrats: Not so democratic.
6.30.2009 4:01pm
J.R.L.:
"It's official: Democrats are allowed to double-count ballots favoring their candidate. Law of the land.

Democrats: Not so democratic."


Some things are too important to leave up to the will of the people.
6.30.2009 4:13pm
Anononymous314:
"Some things are too important to leave up to the will of the people."

That's why, supposedly, there's a Constitution.
6.30.2009 4:15pm
FWB (mail):
So prior to this which two senators from Minnesota participated in the votes in the senate during this session?

Something about not denying suffrage to any state!

If a state doesn't field its proper quota of senators, can the senate constitutionally proceed without "denying" suffrage to a state lacking proper representation?

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."

H. L. Mencken

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam!
6.30.2009 4:24pm
LTR:
I hope every state passes runoff laws like the one in Georgia. No recounts and legal battles and no Frankens sneaking in.
6.30.2009 4:34pm
G S (mail):
Speaking as one who preferred the other outcome, my sense of things here in MN is that a) there were some election irregularities but b) they mainly involved different standards for absentee ballots and c) were not obviously malicious. Coleman's campaign could have handled the early recount better while Franken was vigorous from the start.

It comes down to this: very minor election night issues aside, Franken made his case and Coleman did not. There are probably a few minor reforms that would help the system function more smoothly going forward, and I wouldn't mind an automatic run-off election like some states have (it would seem like a more fair way than having lawyers try to break what amounts to a tie), but that wasn't our law at the time of the election.
6.30.2009 4:39pm
Cornellian (mail):
It will be interesting to see if he brings a sense of humor to his press conferences and speeches or whether he feels the need to be especially serious now that he's a senator.
6.30.2009 4:43pm
Lucky Corny:
I am unhappy with this result because Franken has made a career out of insulting conservatives like me. I do not believe that he will become a statesman in the Senate.

I think back to Sonny Bono. Many people laughed when he was elected to the House. But he turned into a valuable resource for the Republican leadership. He was intelligent, thoughtful, and polite. He used his sense of humor to (often self deprecating humor at that) to disarm arguments. He was a person that people could work with and achieve results.

I feel that Franken will continue his practice of insulting people who disagree with him and will vote the party line with little thought about the consequences...and he will be the crucial vote for ending debate. I think the country will suffer.
6.30.2009 4:46pm
Talkosaurus:
"It will be interesting to see if he brings a sense of humor to his press conferences and speeches or whether he feels the need to be especially serious now that he's a senator."

Has Al Franken brought an honest sense of humor to anything since his SNL days? That's what surprised me most about his running, he'd acquired a more modern rep as a somewhat nasty, eccentric guy in the Bill Mahr/Richard Belzer mode. Whatever his beef, Coleman has come off as whiny, but Franken has never struck me as being good-natured.
6.30.2009 4:48pm
Officious Intermeddler:
It will be interesting to see if he brings a sense of humor to his press conferences and speeches or whether he feels the need to be especially serious now that he's a senator.


Well, I'll certainly be laughing -- at him, though, not with him.
6.30.2009 4:53pm
Lucky Corny:
I am preparing the hemlock now. It has been fun conversing with all of you.

See you all on the other side.
6.30.2009 4:54pm
Federal Dog:
"Franken has never struck me as being good-natured."

Well, that A&B stuff pretty much established his lack of good nature.
6.30.2009 5:01pm
Anderson (mail):
I am preparing the hemlock now. It has been fun conversing with all of you.

See you all on the other side.


That's not doing much for Minnesota's House delegation.
6.30.2009 5:07pm
californiamom:
Al Franken as the face of the Democratically held Senate. It's a goldmine for Republican campaign ads.
6.30.2009 5:14pm
SFH:
Lots of sour grapes here. God forbid the guy that actually won the election should enter the Senate.
6.30.2009 5:17pm
Maydaybessy (mail):
MESSAGE
6.30.2009 5:22pm
NotALawyer:
I'm a Minnesota resident who can't stand either Coleman or Franken (but, full disclosure, voted for Coleman). And I honestly don't think Franken actually got the most votes according to a fair reading of Minnesota voting law.

What basically happened was that once it was clear that this thing was close, county election officials in Democratic counties decided to be much more liberal regarding whether a vote counted than either the law allows or they would have been otherwise. Absentee ballots that didn't have a witness signature got counted anyway, ballots that were counted on election night but couldn't be found for the recount were counted anyway. And so on. In short, the election officials in Democratic counties knew that if they simply made all judgement calls in favor of counting a vote, this would favor Franken. Election judges in Republican counties refused to play along. So while I don't think Franken stole the election in the sense of actually producing votes from nowhere, I do think the majority of the evidence leans me to believing that if a uniform standard was used, ANY uniform standard, as long as it was the same across counties, Coleman would have won.

The problem was that while Coleman was able to present evidence that this was probably true, he wasn't able to prove it. So in that case, the court correctly ruled that Franken wins, because that is Minnesota law.

But it is bad law. It leaves too much discretion to partisan election judges, and in this case it probably changed the outcome.
6.30.2009 5:50pm
Cato The Elder (mail):
Another Democrat in the Senate. What could possibly go wrong?
6.30.2009 5:50pm
conlaw2 (mail):
I might have missed something. Weren't the original results the farce? There were scores of uncounted votes, either missing or erroneously disqualified. The final count, brought in some portion of these. Additionally regarding the challenges, initially each canditate had thousands of challenges to votes. Franken backed off many of his challenges and eventually ended up challenging far less than Coleman did. How is the Coleman loss not the correct result?
6.30.2009 6:11pm
martinned (mail) (www):

How is the Coleman loss not the correct result?

Because for too many people in the US today, even on this blog, a Republican losing is always "not the correct result".

(For the record, the same goes for a Democrat losing, just not so much on VC.)
6.30.2009 6:20pm
Kirk:
Having two senators is also a nightmare, if one of them happens to be Patty "Osama the Daycare Provider" Murray.
6.30.2009 6:32pm
Kirk:
NotALawyer,

Well, it worked so well in King County to put Christine Gregoire into office as governor, I'm not surprised to see this--and expect even more in the future.

martinned,

Read up about the 2004 Washington State gubernatorial election fiasco before you say that...
6.30.2009 6:35pm
Desiderius:
Cornellian,

"It will be interesting to see if he brings a sense of humor"

Why should he start now? There are plenty of Dem (and Left) funnymen. Alas, Franken has never been among their number, even, or especially, in his SNL days. What an embarrassment.
6.30.2009 6:48pm
BGates:
God forbid the guy that actually won the election should enter the Senate.

Not God, cheating Democrats. "You say our man lost by 500 votes? Why, I just happen to have 600 votes for him here in the back seat of my car! Now we won!"
6.30.2009 6:57pm
AnthonyJ (mail):
You know, if there were any, oh, evidence for that sort of cheating, Coleman might have actually won his court case...
6.30.2009 7:20pm
Leo Marvin (mail):
Desiderius:

Why should he start now? There are plenty of Dem (and Left) funnymen. Alas, Franken has never been among their number, even, or especially, in his SNL days. What an embarrassment.

Of the many things we see eye-to-eye on, this may be the one where our views most perfectly coincide.
6.30.2009 8:03pm
Leo Marvin (mail):
On the other hand, if I were a Republican, I'd be embarrassed by the sour grapes whining in this thread.
6.30.2009 8:05pm
NickM (mail) (www):
Norm Coleman got the most votes among people who can follow simple directions. The moron vote (people who have trouble with the concepts of filling in a circle and not making marks other places) tilted heavily Democratic and turned the election.

Nick
6.30.2009 9:20pm
Owen Hutchins (mail):
Nick- see the post above yours.
6.30.2009 10:12pm
NotALawyer:
There is a difference between evidence and proof. But the fact that Coleman was ahead by quite a bit on the first count and Democratic county after Democratic county kept coming up with new votes during the recounts while Republican counties didn't (or didn't to nearly the same extent) is evidence, not proof but evidence, that county officials in Democratic counties were making judgement calls after the fact. Pointing that out is not sour grapes.
6.30.2009 10:18pm
GaryC (mail):
I wish that Norm Coleman had won, but his legal team seems to have lost the initial argument about the function of the recount versus the contest.

But Norm needs to consider whether God is trying to send him a message. How can any halfway competent politician lose to both Jesse Ventura and Al Franken?
6.30.2009 11:18pm
Desiderius:
LM,

"On the other hand, if I were a Republican, I'd be embarrassed by the sour grapes whining in this thread."

It's certainly not the optimal approach, Republican or no. Funny thing is, for my summer job, I'm working for a standardized-test grading company grading NCLB-style tests for one of the states mentioned in this thread. We've been "renorming on the fly" (i.e. loosening our rubrics to boost scores, in some cases to the extent of rank farce) to better fit the score distribution the state needs to meet its improvement goals.
7.1.2009 10:06am
Mark in Texas (mail):
In case you did not see the comment by the Instapundit:

Caligula sent a horse to the Senate. Minnesota is just sending part of the horse.
7.1.2009 11:00am
Lucky Corny:
I think I am entitled to be bitter. A moderate Republican loses to a very rude liberal. He loses, in part, because Republicans are demoralized by the big government, big spending practices of Republicans in Washington DC. Now government spending is going to get even worse.

With Franken in the Senate and with the Democrats sporting control of the presidency, Congress, and a filibuster proof majority in the senate(something the Republican party has never had) I believe we will see some very bad, very expensive policies and programs come out of DC.
7.1.2009 12:27pm
Desiderius:
Unlucky Corny,

"I think I am entitled to be bitter."

Yeah, but Republicans aren't supposed to be big on entitlements. Nor bitterness.
7.1.2009 1:22pm
geokstr (mail):

Leo Marvin:
On the other hand, if I were a Republican, I'd be embarrassed by the sour grapes whining in this thread.

And if I were a Democrat, I'd be angered and ashamed that my side would blatantly cheat to win. But then again, those emotions are proabably disallowed by Alinsky Rules, where winning is the only thing.
7.2.2009 7:21am
Desiderius:
Geo,

"And if I were a Democrat, I'd be angered and ashamed that my side would blatantly cheat to win. But then again, those emotions are proabably disallowed by Alinsky Rules, where winning is the only thing."

If it were blatant, it would be provable in a court of law. The pursuit of power as an end in itself tends over time to claim itself as a victim, so if that is indeed what is going on, let's see how things play out.
7.2.2009 10:16am
loki13 (mail):
Question:

What is more likely in a thead?

J. Aldridge quoting Bingham approvingly?

Or geokstr quoting Alinsky approvingly?

And what does this mean about geokstr? Discuss.
7.2.2009 11:38am

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