Monday Bear Blogging:

It seems that Yellow-Yellow of the Adirondacks is a very special bear, capable of opening the "BearVault 500" food canister, which had been designed to be bear-proof. Now it's back to the drawing board for BearVault's makers. They're using Yellow-Yellow to field test their next model.

FC:
She's smarter than the average bear.
7.27.2009 8:25am
Bill Twist:
Erm, you want for I should take care of this?

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/2256/bowcrop2ty0.jpg

/Counting the days until the season starts.
7.27.2009 8:36am
Jim Rose (mail) (www):
If she's so smart, let's see her devise a health care plan that'sacceptable to both Democrats and Republicans, as I have blogged.
7.27.2009 8:48am
Melancton Smith:
Jim Rose...excellent idea. I was thinking of the million monkeys but your idea is much more feasible.
7.27.2009 8:52am
arthur:
Yellow-Yellow, through her Counsel David Kopel, is seeking an injunction against the latest model of the BearVault, which she claims infringes on her right to keep her bear arms wherever she wants to keep them.
7.27.2009 9:50am
Oren:
Like in most natural systems, you cannot piecemeal it -- her ability to open it increases with each design defeated. Note the history in the article BearVault X000, each of which taught her two things: (1) Relevant skills necessary and (2) that it's a manifestly worthy goal to keep trying when faced with a new insurmountable device.
7.27.2009 9:50am
NRWO:
With so many bears fiddling with bear-proof containers, it's plausible that one just got lucky.

Yellow-Yellow may be smarter than the rest. Or, she may have been lucky. (Just as humans differ on g so, I suspect, do bears.)

Before giving Yellow-Yellow the brightest bear award, let's see if she can do it again -- with a different container with different opening steps.
7.27.2009 10:22am
fishbane (mail):
There's a great quote on the difficulty of making bear-proof trash cans for use in Yosemite. Said a park ranger, "There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists."
7.27.2009 10:37am
NRWO:
7.27.2009 10:37am
fishbane (mail):
Before giving Yellow-Yellow the brightest bear award, let's see if she can do it again -- with a different container with different opening steps.

If you had read the article, you'd know she already has.
7.27.2009 10:39am
NRWO:
Too busy telling my kid lame jokes.

Lighten up.
7.27.2009 10:41am
fishbane (mail):
Lighten up

Not trying to be a heavy. You just seemed interested in the topic of the bear's canister opening abilities, and so I was passing on the fact.
7.27.2009 10:47am
Joseph Slater (mail):
The first five comments were the best opening to a VC thread that I can remember.
7.27.2009 11:09am
Laura(southernxyl) (mail) (www):

She's smarter than the average bear.


As I read the OP and saw that there were 12 comments here, I wondered how many it would take to get to this. Ha ha.
7.27.2009 11:09am
theobromophile (www):
Great comments. Very happy that there is more Monday Bear Blogging. (If/when the stock market picks up again, will we have Monday Bull Blogging?)
7.27.2009 11:12am
byomtov (mail):
There's already plenty of bull blogging, on all days of the week.
7.27.2009 11:23am
NRWO:
fishbane: My son, who enjoys Volokh (see here, here, here
, here), has now scolded me for commenting before reading.

Sorry, and thanks for the pointer. I study human intelligence and have done some work on intelligence in military working dogs.
7.27.2009 11:32am
BT:
Question: Does a wild bear s*** in a Bear Vault 500?
7.27.2009 11:55am
Uninterested Observer (mail):
Time for a threatdown. Bears are still the number one threat to america.
7.27.2009 11:58am
Bill Twist:

I study human intelligence and have done some work on intelligence in military working dogs.


The *REALLY* smart military dogs know how to get out of doing work. Once knew a German Shepard who skated so much they called him "Hans Brinker". The brass made him wear human tags.
7.27.2009 11:59am
James Gibson (mail):
I have a question that probably will remain unanswered, but I'll make it anyway. As stated in the article linked to this thread, this bear vault system has even confounded some humans. Is it thus possible that the bear is simply opening vaults which the owners improperly tried to close. If so perhaps a simpler mechanism might actually keep Ms Yogi out of the vault.

Of course if what I have suggested is true there is only so far we can go. As Fishbane's post noted.

Said a park ranger, "There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists."
7.27.2009 12:03pm
rarango (mail):
Genuinely difficult to name the thread winner--this post has been literally unbearable for the judges.
7.27.2009 12:27pm
Unlearned_Elbow:
Maybe she's the first step toward this.
7.27.2009 12:45pm
rarango (mail):
Unlearned_Elbow: does that mean that Smokey's admonition should now read: Only and and Bears can prevent forest fires?
7.27.2009 12:48pm
Bill Twist:
You know, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but why not just make a sturdy container with an integrated combination lock? Or even one with a sturdy hasp for use with your own (key or combination) padlock? No bear would be able to open something as simple as that.


Sometimes, we as a species over-think things.
7.27.2009 12:57pm
Steve:
Is it thus possible that the bear is simply opening vaults which the owners improperly tried to close.

That would not explain why none of the other bears are able to open this vault.
7.27.2009 2:26pm
anomdebus (mail):
I was reminded of a classic Onion story, bowdlerized and adapted:

Forget everything, we're doing five tabs
7.27.2009 2:28pm
Bill Twist:


Is it thus possible that the bear is simply opening vaults which the owners improperly tried to close.

That would not explain why none of the other bears are able to open this vault.


Well, there are a number of things that can explain it.

First, Yellow-Yellow's territory might bring her into contact with these more often than the other bears. Adult black bears don't like to be around each other for the most part (except for mating season, of course).

Second, some cases could possibly be attributed to Yellow-Yellow even though it was a different bear. In that case, other bears *ARE* doing it, it's just that Yellow-Yellow gets all the glory.

Third, the requirement for using bear proof containers in the 'dacks is pretty new, which means that they are probably pretty new to the people using them.
7.27.2009 2:40pm
karrde (mail) (www):
So...does the old "suspended from a rope between trees" trick still work?

That was used by the team I went canoeing/backpacking with about 5 years ago.
7.27.2009 2:50pm
Cato The Elder (mail) (www):

Yellow-Yellow, through her Counsel David Kopel, is seeking an injunction against the latest model of the BearVault, which she claims infringes on her right to keep her bear arms wherever she wants to keep them.

IMO, this comment easily vaults above the others to become the thread-winner. Nice work arthur.
7.27.2009 3:12pm
aGuestUser (mail):
You know, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but why not just make a sturdy container with an integrated combination lock? Or even one with a sturdy hasp for use with your own (key or combination) padlock? No bear would be able to open something as simple as that.

For example, think about being in the absolute middle of Nowhere National Forest, and discovering you had lost the keys to the food.

The idea is to frustrate the bear, not the humans.
7.27.2009 4:05pm
Jenn:
You know, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but why not just make a sturdy container with an integrated combination lock? Or even one with a sturdy hasp for use with your own (key or combination) padlock? No bear would be able to open something as simple as that.

I'm familiar with the Bear Vaults (some of my backpacking companions own them) and the other bear-proof containers that open with a coin or screwdriver (I own one). I'm pretty sure the things you suggest wouldn't work quite as well because

1) Those things add more weight. Weight was one of the main reasons my friends went with the Bear Vault instead of the kind I have. Remember, these are backpacker things. If you're car camping, you probably have a permanent bear-proof box at the site. If you're day camping, you don't need bear-proof containers. So weight is very important.

2) The locks you mention are a lot more likely to jam due to dirt and grime than simpler mechanisms. After I've been out a few days, I sometimes really have to force the simple latch with my screwdriver to get it to open. I can't imagine trying to use a standard key or combination lock instead.

3) Beyond just not allowing a bear to break into your food, the canister needs to make it hard for the bear to cart your food off. A bear could easily grab a padlock in its mouth and carry the whole thing away. Then, no food for you. In general, any mechanism you use has to not involve too many recesses or small bits that a bear could get teeth into.

4) You can lose the key. (as someone already mentioned)

So...does the old "suspended from a rope between trees" trick still work?

It depends where you go. At Yellowstone (as of summer 2008), they still said you could hang your food up. One ranger I talked to told me they had undergone a lot of effort there a few decades back to train bears not to mess with human food (and any that didn't learn were culled). They continue now to make sure bears are, ahem, given the proper incentives to stay away from human objects.

In most parks in California, bears have definitely learned to cut the rope, and bear cannisters are required. The article says this is the case for New York as well. I'm not sure about other areas.
7.27.2009 6:50pm
ReaderY:
Yogini Bear!
7.27.2009 8:10pm
ReaderY:

Yellow-Yellow, through her Counsel David Kopel, is seeking an injunction against the latest model of the BearVault, which she claims infringes on her right to keep her bear arms wherever she wants to keep them.


You mean the right to keep and arm bears?
7.27.2009 8:11pm
Fat Man (mail):
Why are we worried about polar bears. Seems to me that they will fend for themselves just fine.
7.27.2009 8:49pm
theobromophile (www):
You know, I'm not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but why not just make a sturdy container with an integrated combination lock? Or even one with a sturdy hasp for use with your own (key or combination) padlock? No bear would be able to open something as simple as that.

Adding a bit to that, to address the concerns about losing the key: why not a combination lock, built in to the lid (i.e. fewer holes to grab on to), perhaps with a flexible cover to keep grime out but allow fingers to manipulate the dial, and, of course, have the combination printed directly on the canister? I don't think that anyone is concerned with having humans swipe each other's food, nor about semi-literate bears who could somehow turn a dial, but we are worried about illiterate but handy bears.
7.27.2009 10:54pm
Jeff Walden (www):
Really, if they're having this many problems, they should install bear cables at campsites (assuming there are campsites which they encourage people to use). They work great in the Smoky Mountains (and elsewhere along the Appalachian Trail), which has a much worse problem from so many people going through it, and I assume they're fairly low-maintenance once they've been installed.

I also have heard claims that the PCT method works well for preventing bears from getting into food, but I've never needed to try it personally (and also haven't had an opportunity to do so since learning about it).
7.27.2009 11:20pm

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