I don't understand the bit about the robes. Ginsburg seems to make it sound like her and O'Connor were the first ones to have that problem. They were the first female justices but not the first appellate judges (some Carter nominees come to mind). What did they wear?
I don't understand the bit about the robes. Ginsburg seems to make it sound like her and O'Connor were the first ones to have that problem. They were the first female justices but not the first appellate judges (some Carter nominees come to mind). What did they wear?
Florence Allen was the first federal appellate judge (6th Cir.). LBJ appointed Shirley Hufstedler (9th Cir.). I have no idea what they wore.
What, no Nino? Is he really that broken up about potentially losing his reputation as the most pugnacious interlocutor during oral arguments? Or does he (and JPS) appear in an extended cut of those interviews?
Also, and this may just be because I'm used to seeing the same public domain photos of the Justices being distributed constantly, it struck me that Justice Kennedy was looking fairly unhealthy during his segment.
"...so Sandra Day O'Connor and I, thought it would be appropriate...if we included it as part of our robe, something typical of a woman; so, I have many, many collars."
L-O-L. Of course, saying anything more than that would get labeled as a troglodyte by any civilized person. Sigh...
...so Sandra Day O'Connor and I, thought it would be appropriate...if we included it as part of our robe, something typical of a woman; so, I have many, many collars.
I guess we need a sartorial cue to help us recognize a wise woman justice.
it struck me that Justice Kennedy was looking fairly unhealthy during his segment.
While I hope for his health, I must say that he seemed much older than the last time I'd seen him speak- not surprising for a man in his 70s. I was surprised how vivacious and sharp Alito seemed (he was very restrained in his hearings, personality-wise).
Also re Kennedy- he discussed his experience trying jury cases. I wonder how many he tried? What kind of cases? I'd love it if there were a place somewhere you could find a collection of the work done by justices when they were in the trenches.
I saw the robe bit on the TV news. I couldn't figure out whether the Justice was trying to establish her "fem cred" or what. She seemed somewhat enfeebled to me. And didn't Justice O'Connor show up long before her? So, Justice O'Connor waited to add the doily to her robes until Justice Ginsburg arrived? What a waste of on-air-time.
It's fun to see these kinds of interviews. I thought the stuff about the robes and collars was perfectly charming. Why is this so mysterious? My goodness.
I'll weigh in on this vitally important topic of judicial garb. For all I care, the justices can show up in their birthday suits, but still there is some merit in a plain black robe without frills. That tradition of plain black robes without frills was started by Chief Justice Marshall, and Chief Justice Roberts has explained the reason very concisely:
[J]udges wear black robes because it doesn't matter who they are as individuals. That's not going to shape their decision. It's their understanding of the law that will shape their decision.
So, if male justices have a low collar that allows them to show off their neckties underneath the robes, then the most sensible thing would be for female justices to put on something frilly underneath their robes that also is visible with the same low collar. The robe itself ought to remain plain black, per Marshall and Roberts and every chief justic in between.
“[t]he black robes we wear on the bench unite us in their lack of distinguishability; they make a simple but striking point: We are neither Democratic judges nor Republican judges but, simply, United States judges.” ---Judge Patricia Wald
And:
“I have always thought that one of the reasons we wear black robes is that justice should be anonymous. The rule of law should be independent of the personality of the judge that happens to be hearing the case." ---Justice Stephen Breyer
The robe itself ought to remain plain black, per Marshall and Roberts and every chief justic in between.
Well, Chief Justice Rehnquist did add those golden chevrons on the arms of his robe to make sure that you knew that he was the Chief Justice, not a mere Associate Justice.
I dunno, my favorite part of old Rumpole episodes was when they showed English judges being helped into their elaborate outfits by their usher (who himself wore a plain black robe). Wouldn't it be more fun to be sentenced to decades in prison if the judge was wearing: "a scarlet robe with [white ermine] fur facings, a black scarf and girdle (waistband) and a scarlet casting-hood or tippet. When dealing with criminal business in the summer, the judge wears a similar scarlet robe, but with silk rather than fur facings."
Also it's cool the way they and the barristers bow to one another on entering court.
Also, may I just say how insufferable I find Justice O'Connor? How self-absorbed do you have to be to think that the sex of your replacement is a reflection on your performance for the past 25 years? (And it wasn't just a passing thought in this one interview, she repeatedly brings it up.) Although, I think Breyer outdoes her in the condescension to mere mortals department (not only here, but in general). If I thought any of his former clerks would give a straight answer, I'd like to know whether he speaks to then like this as well, or is capable of getting down to business/actually engaging with people rather than lecturing them in private.
I think Ginsburg and Thomas win the award for at least seeming most genuine, or who I would imagine them to actually be towards their friends.
Well, according to Bernard Schwartz, Rehnquist only put on the stripes because he was "jealous of the court's female justices" who had broken with tradition.
Also, may I just say how insufferable I find Justice O'Connor? How self-absorbed do you have to be to think that the sex of your replacement is a reflection on your performance for the past 25 years?
That tradition of plain black robes without frills was started by Chief Justice Marshall, and Chief Justice Roberts has explained the reason very concisely:
I love the old quote about Hugo Black:
He went from scaring black folks in a white robe to scaring white folks in a black robe.
9.5.2009 9:51am
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Florence Allen was the first federal appellate judge (6th Cir.). LBJ appointed Shirley Hufstedler (9th Cir.). I have no idea what they wore.
Also, and this may just be because I'm used to seeing the same public domain photos of the Justices being distributed constantly, it struck me that Justice Kennedy was looking fairly unhealthy during his segment.
OK I realized how stupid that was: Ginsburg was on the DC Circuit before appt'd. What was she wearing??
L-O-L. Of course, saying anything more than that would get labeled as a troglodyte by any civilized person. Sigh...
I guess we need a sartorial cue to help us recognize a wise woman justice.
While I hope for his health, I must say that he seemed much older than the last time I'd seen him speak- not surprising for a man in his 70s. I was surprised how vivacious and sharp Alito seemed (he was very restrained in his hearings, personality-wise).
Also re Kennedy- he discussed his experience trying jury cases. I wonder how many he tried? What kind of cases? I'd love it if there were a place somewhere you could find a collection of the work done by justices when they were in the trenches.
I saw the robe bit on the TV news. I couldn't figure out whether the Justice was trying to establish her "fem cred" or what. She seemed somewhat enfeebled to me. And didn't Justice O'Connor show up long before her? So, Justice O'Connor waited to add the doily to her robes until Justice Ginsburg arrived? What a waste of on-air-time.
It's nice to hear them all talk about the family-like aspect.
So, if male justices have a low collar that allows them to show off their neckties underneath the robes, then the most sensible thing would be for female justices to put on something frilly underneath their robes that also is visible with the same low collar. The robe itself ought to remain plain black, per Marshall and Roberts and every chief justic in between.
And:
Well, Chief Justice Rehnquist did add those golden chevrons on the arms of his robe to make sure that you knew that he was the Chief Justice, not a mere Associate Justice.
Also it's cool the way they and the barristers bow to one another on entering court.
I think Ginsburg and Thomas win the award for at least seeming most genuine, or who I would imagine them to actually be towards their friends.
I see it as a subconscious confession of sorts.
I love the old quote about Hugo Black:
If you have a comment about spelling, typos, or format errors, please e-mail the poster directly rather than posting a comment.
Comment Policy: We reserve the right to edit or delete comments, and in extreme cases to ban commenters, at our discretion. Comments must be relevant and civil (and, especially, free of name-calling). We think of comment threads like dinner parties at our homes. If you make the party unpleasant for us or for others, we'd rather you went elsewhere. We're happy to see a wide range of viewpoints, but we want all of them to be expressed as politely as possible.
We realize that such a comment policy can never be evenly enforced, because we can't possibly monitor every comment equally well. Hundreds of comments are posted every day here, and we don't read them all. Those we read, we read with different degrees of attention, and in different moods. We try to be fair, but we make no promises.
And remember, it's a big Internet. If you think we were mistaken in removing your post (or, in extreme cases, in removing you) -- or if you prefer a more free-for-all approach -- there are surely plenty of ways you can still get your views out.