Here's the story:
Wednesday [Vermont trial court Judge Edward Cashman] sentenced child rapist Mark Hulett to 60 days in jail. Hulett admitted he raped a little girl countless times when she was between 7 and 10 years old.
Prosecutors said Hulett deserved at least 8 years in prison in part as punishment.
But Judge Cashman said the 60-day sentence guaranteed that Hulett would get into sex offender rehabilitation quickly or face a possible life sentence. He said he had no choice because the Corrections Department classified Hulett as a low risk offender meaning he can't get treatment until he's out of jail.
And more importantly the judge announced that after 25 years on the bench, he no longer believes in punishment. . . .
Republican lawmakers have scheduled a press conference for tomorrow to call for mandatory minimum sentences. That's a direct response to Judge Cashman's ruling. . . .
Some Republicans have started calls for Cashman's removal from the bench.
But they may have to until Judge Cashman's six-year retention hearings in March 2007. Legal experts say it is highly unlikely his sentencing decision would qualify as an impeachable offense. . . .
I understand the appeal of giving judges a great deal of sentencing flexibility: Different offenders are different, and sentencing guidelines schemes tend to omit some factors that might in some cases yield a juster result.
But flexibility means you sometimes get manifestly unjust results such as this -- and sometimes unjust results in the other direction, too. What's more, you get highly unequal treatment. First, this child molester lucked out because he got into Judge Cashman's court, while other criminals might be unlucky because they get into an unusually harsh judge's court. Second, discretionary black-box here's-how-I-feel-about-it judgments are especially likely to be influenced, in many instances, by impermissible factors, such as the offender's race, the offender's sex, the degree to which the judge feels social affinity for the offender, or the degree to which the judge feels social affinity for the victim. Our feelings of pity, mercy, and sympathy, as well as our feelings of outrage, are often colored (perhaps even subconsciously rather than deliberately) by such factors, especially when they bear on the connection we feel to the parties.
On balance, it seems to me that judicial sentencing discretion needs to be cabined, and sentences -- like the definitions of the offenses -- made more matters of the rule of law, rather than of rule by whatever penological theory each particular judge "believes in," or by whatever attitudes the judge has about a particular crime or a particular offender. And while of course the sentencing ranges can be misset (the federal guidelines were faulted for being too harsh in many instances, though I have no firm opinion on the subject), at least the guidelines provide an opportunity for deliberation, both democratic and bureaucratic, about what the right settings should be. Not so with "here's what I as the judge think you should be sentenced to."
(Note that across-the-board mandatory minimums lack many of the advantages of guidelines, since they usually turn on no or very few factors. Guidelines include their own minimums, but those minimums are more calibrated to the particulars of each offense, such as the offender's criminal history, the severity of this particular instance of the offense, and the like. There's also a separate debate over what sorts of escape hatches guidelines should have for the truly unusual cases; but it's much better to limit judges' discretion, subject to a rarely used escape hatch that will often be reviewable on appeal, than to leave the matter entirely to the judge.)
Sentences vary wildly from judge to judge based on ideology. And even defendants before the same judge are often treated differently based on sex, physical appearance, and (for some non-capital crimes) race.
For example, there is a ton of statistical evidence that gender bias exists in sentencing. For example, wives who kill their husbands without provocation get only 7 years in prison, compared to 17 years for husbands who kill their wives.
The Sentencing Guidelines reduced such disparities, although they did not eliminate them.
My experiences with the federal guidelines leave me skeptical that there is a long-term-workable solution that leads to a happy medium between basically unfettered discretion and rigid guidelines. First, bear in mind the line of Supreme Court cases culiminating in Booker that make most guidelines regiemes increasingly impractical, as the cases require the factors being fed into the guidelines hopper to be admitted or found by a jury (or else simply yield a "recommendation," as with the post-Booker guidelines). Second, the experience with the federal guidelines has mostly been about judges trying to thwart them. I would expect that to continue to be the experience, and that judges like the one here will simply find ways to couch their decisions in the magic words that trigger the various departures, escape hatches, etc. Bomb always wins the contest with armor, and residual discretion, IMO, always wins the contest with attempts to confine it.
I, as I think everyone who will post on this subject, finds the sentence and the reasoning behind it appalling.
I have for a long time felt that mandatory guidelines were wrong, because it leads to circumscription of a judges role, but also it does not allow for a judge to place the appropriate sentence, whether more severe or less severe than what the guidelines mandate. This case will definately make me think twice about that opinion.
Yet, I wanted to ask you if you thought that the judge's statement that he no longer believes in punishment would be grounds for impeachment, since he no longer appears willing to do the job given to him?
Also, can this case be overturned on appeal, because I would think that rape has a minimum sentence of a certain number of years?
Noah
For example, they found that female felons are given much more lenient sentences than similarly situated male felons, without any justification.
Studies (discussed in the Washington Post's Outlook section) have found that when given the power to set sentences, jurors massively discriminate against homely defendants. Physical appearance may be only skin deep, but it can cost you years of your liberty.
Mandatory minimums, for all their problems, reduce this risk. In one Ninth Circuit case, the controversial trial judge Jack Tanner, once rated the worst judge in America, gave a woman who permanently disfigured, and nearly killed, her estranged husband (for having the audacity to seek custody of their kids) one day in jail, saying it was a dispute between "consenting adults."
But her sentence was grudgingly increased to at least five years by the en banc Ninth Circuit (even though it sought to mitigate the seriousness of her crime on the grounds that her husband's motion for custody caused her a serious emotional disturbance), because of a mandatory minimum sentence for using a firearm in commission of a felony on federal land, a mandatory minimum that the Ninth Circuit was compelled to apply.
(Several dissenting judges on the Ninth Circuit thought that the sentence should be further increased because of the obvious gender bias of the trial judge and the Ninth Circuit majority in excusing domestic violence on the ground that the husband had sought custody of his kids).
The mandatory minimum sentence was the only thing that guaranteed that the committer of a serious violent crime did any serious time.
At the same time, thousands of people have lost their liberty for sometimes 10 years or more for small victimless crimes that any judge with the discretion to limit the jail time would. Mandatory minimums often leads to a culture of crime and increased recidivism. I think the goal of all people in our judicial system should be to ensure that crime is sufficiently punished, but also that people do not go back to their criminal ways.
Noah
"He said he had no choice because the Corrections Department classified Hulett as a low risk offender meaning he can't get treatment until he's out of jail."
Talk about a sentencing guideline! Holding any rehabilitation hostage to punishment. If we want to talk about injustice, rules like these epitomize it. It's good that the judge had some discretion to attempt to mitigate it. If there are weaknesses with the outcome, it's because the judge didn't have enough.
So, while I understand the motivation for eliminating disparity and discretion in sentencing, I think you are fooling yourself if you think the pre-Booker federal guidelines really do that.
"And more importantly the judge announced that after 25 years on the bench, he no longer believes in punishment. . . ."
is a spurious paraphrase. Before we rush to judge the judge, we should know *exactly* what he said and why. I would bet that it was an opinion along the lines that punishment for punishment's sake is an ineffective way of dealing with crime, an extremely reasonable opinion many others have articulated and one that he may likely have formed himself through all his years of judicial experience.
Indeed, this post highlights a phenomenon that I think you ought to spend more time examining: namely the ways in which our legal and political structure now creates one-way ratchets so that one seemingly too lenient sentence prompts immediate legislative action, but many seemingly too harsh sentences rarely if ever generates legislative reform (see, e.g., the debate over crack sentences for mules in the federal system).
Especially given the collection of avowed libertarians who make up this Consipracy, I am repeatedly disappointed there is not more discussion of the harms of over-incarceration in this space. There is no greater affront to liberty, by my lights, than when the government locks someone up in a small cage for longer than it should. I often wonder why the small government concerns of libertarians do not always find full expression when considering government's power to harm its citizens through excessive punishments?
Mandatory minimum for selling marijuana and posessing a gun (first conviction): 757 months.
Mandatory minimum sentence for raping a 10-year-old: 135 months.
Mandatory minimum sentence for aircraft hijacking: 293 months.
I've heard horror stories about violent criminals being released early to make room for minor first-time drug offenders in prisons because only rapists and murderers are allowed out early.
Dave
This is A purpose. It is not the ONLY purpose.
I've noted elsewhere that I tend to agree the punitive aspect of the sentence should have been stiffer. But the rush to castigate the judge fails to recognize the unfortunate limitations placed upon him that failed to allow for a truly just result. We should really be scrutinizing them instead of pillorying the judge himself. Especially on such a sparse record devoid of any significant context.
In particular, I want to highlight these passages from the article:
60 days in jail for child rape is a joke, but so, for that matter, is 3 years or 8 years. And I'd rather give the guy whatever sentence is most likely to prevent him from raping another kid -- the one that gets him counseling -- than just lock him up for a few years then toss him back on the street.
When a judge does this, it makes the papers and outrage ensues. Therefore, it doesn't happen much.
When a prosecutor charges one guy for a 60-year-punishment crime and the other (who did the same thing) for a 1-year-punishment crime, nobody even notices enough to complain.
Discretionary decisions should be open an public, not made in back rooms as mandatory-minimum-laws allow.
I'm surprised that no one has remarked on the fact that the prosecutor thought that repeatedly raping a little girl over a period of 3 years deserved only 8 years in jail. When the law fails to provide justice, even honest, otherwise law-abiding citizens will seek justice outside the law. Perhaps the judge understood this and was sympathetic to the outrage of the girl's family. 8 years is long enough, perhaps, for anger to cool, but 60 days probably is not. When the 60-day sentence is over, the child rapist will no longer be in the protective custody of the State of Vermont.
Note that the *State* classified this guy as a "low risk offender." Not the judge.
So apparently our visceral feelings about child rape aren't shared by the Corrections Dep't, or at least they're suspended in favor of other considerations.
Tying judges' hands leads to results like this.
Your are right. Child molesters cannot be rehabilitated. We in Florida found that out when a repeat offender on parole kidnapped, raped, and murdered Jessica Lunsford. The result was a new law with a mandatory 25-year minimum for molesting a child under the age of 12.
As for the State classifying this guy as a "low risk offender “ was most likely because there was only one victim and it was his first offense. Despite the fact he molested her “countless times” One good thing is this will speed along the passage of Jessica’s Law in Vermont.
Some states have this thing called parole. The way parole typically works is that the defendant gets sentenced to a term of 8 to 15 years, and that means that after 8 years (minus time for good behavior, etc), they start getting annual parole hearings. The parole board gets the "discretion" to decide when they get out, although obviously they're out after 15 years no matter what.
Except, what happens in reality? Some criminal gets an early parole and proceeds to go out and kill again, and public outrage is levied at the parole board. Just like some people are ready to take away discretion from judges because of one or two bad results, people want to take away discretion from the parole board because they aren't perfect. We don't have parole in the federal system any more.
But if you take discretion away from the parole board, you haven't eliminated discretion altogether. You've simply said that instead of the parole board being able to interview the prisoner in 2005 and judge whether he's ready to enter society yet, the sentencing judge needs to look into his crystal ball in 1995 and determine what the criminal will look like in 2005. Even though the parole board isn't perfect, putting it back on the sentencing judge hardly makes the correct result more likely.
Others have already noted that taking discretion away from the sentencing judge just means the prosecutor has all the discretion. Or, alternatively, the statute writers get to come up with a "one size fits all" prescription that fits each and every future violator of their statute.
Heck, if we really want to make sure no one gets too light a sentence, or commits a crime after being released, we should return to the old English system and simply make death the punishment for every felony. Sadly, it takes an absurd suggestion like this one for many people to realize that there is such a thing as being TOO tough on crime, and even then, lots of people come up with the understandable reaction that death is too good for a child rapist.
Our goal should be to make the system better, not simply tougher. Yet every time someone gets off easy, the response is simply to get tougher on everyone across the board. More bad laws have been made in the name of being "tough on crime" than perhaps any other proposition.
Apparently the judge thought it was more important to get therapy for the child-rapist than to seek vindication for the public's right to be free from the depradations of child-rapists (the D.A. does NOT vindicate the rights of the victim as such, but the rights of society to be free from lawless behavior).
Whatever purpose you personally believe the penal system serves (whether punishment or deterrrence), this sentence can't possibly accomplish it. Of course, if they don't segregate him from the other prisoners, 60 days is a death sentence.
Except that the purpose of therapy is to stop the child rapist from molesting children anymore. If you think therapy is ineffective, that's one thing, but it's silly to imagine the therapy was ordered to benefit the criminal at society's expense.
I'm sorry but the need of society to be be protected from this monster outweighs the need for him to be rehabilitated.
As for your second point, I personally believe that the penal system should be used to make society safer, whether that involves punishment or not. I accept that if you think its only purpose is punitive then you'd have to disagree with the judge. However, I don't really see 8 years of prison for child rapists to be in the best interests of society.
Should he have gotten more or less then 8 years?
Where does the article indicate that he isn't eligible for counseling and rehabilitiion if he serves a sentence of more than 60 days?
It was either sixty days or possible life sentence?
I do understand he won't get counseling until *after* he serves the time.
So if he serves 8 years, he gets counseling after 8 years of being unable to rape little girls. What is so important about him getting counseling *in jail*?
The story describes it as a 60-day sentence and that just can't be right. What it looks like is that he was given a life sentence with all but the first sixty days suspended and a requirement that he get treatment. I still don't think that's right, but I don't think the sentence is being reported accurately because I can't see how what is obviously a felony would be punished with an actual sentence of less than one year.
The result of all of this will be increased inequality. But the intelligensia came to grips with inequality decades ago and don't see a solution.
You may agree with Judge. Your opinion, you are welcomed to.
But this a lawyer that said, 'screw it. I dont care about the law, I dont care about what laws have been enacted by those elected to serve the people. I only care about my feelings'. He should be thrown in prison by the President. Hell he dont give a hoot for the law, I'm guessing he would not complain about a little bend of the Constitution
Anyway, I can think the judge made the wrong choice while placing more blame on a system that forces him to make such a senseless choice (why NOT treat someone while incarcerated?).
And as many have noted, the facts behind this article are hard to discern. Let's find out what really happened. Remember how great it was when those 12 of 13 miners were found alive?
The sentence in this case is an outrage, but my experience tells me it is also an extraordinary aberration--the sort of aberration that is more appropriately correctable by the nuanced remedy of appellate reversal than by the broad, cumbersome, and potentially dehumanizing remedy of across-the-board sentencing regulations.
I don't think this case can be reversed in any event (though oversentencing can be, but rarely is). It would seem that having been convicted and sentenced, unless there is some defect in the trial that the defendant wants to raise to have the conviction overturned, I can't see how the STATE can get a ruling except as a reserved question of law, and even then, because of the wording of the statute the judge was within his discretion in sentencing the guy to 60 days.
I'd like to think that the judge could have given a sentence of life and ordered that the defendant receive treatment in prison, if the judge thought that was necessary, and to hell with DoC policies.
Putting sentencing in the hands of sentencing commissions may produce better sentences. I don't know for sure, but I suspect Professor Volokh has a point. It is also completely unconstitutional, because we have a right to have a jury decide any factual issue that can increase a sentence.
We could probably have more accurate trials as to guilt and innocence, in the aggregate, by having bench trials rather than jury trials. But given that the Constitution requires a jury (and there are good, historical and practical reasons for this provision), we can't do it.
The constitution was not interpreted to mandate jury trials until 1968. Prior to that it was common knowledge that federalism required that federal courts not dictate to state courts what procedures they should use in their criminal trials. The "incorporation" of the jury trial clause was utter invention with no significant legal foundations. But judicial rhetoric and bluster unfortunately obfusticates many issues.
(warning - off topic) I just was reading your series on "defense of internment" in your IsThatLegal blog, and noticed the preposition humor you began with (I mean with which you began). It reminded me of this classic from B&B Do America...
Bork rushes up to Flemming with a paper.
BORK
Chief, you know that guy whose camper they
were whacking off in?
FLEMMING
(appalled)
Bork! You are a federal agent. You
represent the United States Government...
Never end a sentence with a preposition.
Try again.
BORK
Oh, ah... You know that guy in whose
camper they... I mean that guy off in
whose camper they were whacking?
FLEMMING
That's better. Yes?
The problem with hanging your hat on this to defend the judge is that unless Vermont is a very odd state, he could have worked for a reclassification.
We could stick him in jail for 10 years, in a violent environment with a bunch of criminals. He will then get out and rape another little girl. Or instead we could give him a small sentence, and then treat him, so that no one else is harmed. The harm to the first girl has been completed, it won't hurt her any more or less if he gets out sooner, but if there is a possibility of saving another potential innocent that has to take priority. If there's no chance of locking him up forever, the goal has to be preventing him from re-offending.
I don't happen to think sex offenders can be treated, I don't think we should ever let any of them out. But that needs to be put into the law; as long as the law allows for treatment, the sentence makes sense.
On the other hand, Prof. Volokh may approve since it mirrors his "Why am I dying from this disease my mommy gave me?" argument from the other day in terms of grounding the law in emotion.
You see, molesting children is, for practical purposes, not a very serious crime in California. I know a woman who called the police when she was about 15, to report that her father was raping her. (This was in the Bay Area.) Her father was convicted--and given probation. For three years, he wasn't allowed to live in the house with his victim, or her two younger sisters. When probation was over, he moved back in (she moved out). The victim's mother never did understand what all the fuss was about--that's what her father did to her at that age.
I know another woman whose son was molested in Sonoma County. There was no question about it; there was physical evidence involving a stretched anus. At first, the son identified the father (who was by then divorced from the mother). Unsurprisingly, he recanted at a later stage of the criminal process, having perhaps been influenced by the father (who still had visitation rights). Eventually, the courts gave the father full custody rights! (He had a good job, made lots of money, and I guess was regarded as a better parent.)
My wife and I have talked to so many victims we knew from living in California. (I suspect that it isn't much better elsewhere.) It is heart-breaking to see the devastation that it leaves behind.
There comes a certain moment when judges refusing to treat child molestation as a serious crime are going to create a strong incentive for popular justice--with all the serious problems that come with that: false accusations; insufficient detachment to properly examine the evidence; no chance for appeal.
I know that in some circles, there is real bewilderment that Americans are so narrow-minded about adults having sex with children, but the rage is real. If you don't like it, perhaps you should consider Bertold Brecht's witty observation, "Would it not be easier for the government to dissolve the people and elect another?"
Boston Globe:
So as some other posters predicted, he was *not* simply sentenced to 60 days for this rather serious crime, which makes the judge's decision make a lot more sense.
WorldNetDaily (a highly biased site, but I'm going out on a limb and assuming the quotes aren't fabricated)
Giving the judge the benefit of the doubt and extrapolating from quotes I can find, I think that he disagreed with the "low risk" assessment and saw a 3 or 8 year sentence resulting in release without treatment or monitoring and that the convict would act again. This is perhaps the most satisfying outcome practical for the victim but less so for the next child he rapes.
The shorter sentence would force the corrections department's hand; they wouldn't want to be responsible for simply letting him go after two months so they'll have to do the treatment (hopefully in jail or at least some sort of psychiatric detention) and monitor the guy if/when released, at least for a while; and the convict will have the 3 to life sentence hanging over his head as motivation to cooperate.
Both the prosecutor and victim's problem with the Judge's plan appears to be that it doesn't satisfy their interest in seeing the man "pay for what he did to my baby", rather than disagreeing with the logic that it will reduce the risk to future victims.
If that really is the conflict here--if the choice really is between maximising harm to Hullet as if that somehow repairs or balances the harm he has done, and minimising the chance that another child will be harmed, then I think Judge Cashman is completely correct.
What I don't think some of you understand is that if he is prison, there won't be any question about whether he is behaving himself or not, because there won't be any children for him to rape in prison. Prison isn't about making him suffer; it is about making sure that he doesn't rape any other kids.
So, this may be an outrage but the guy apparently has a possible life sentence. Does anyone know who will make the determination whether to release after 60 days and on what basis?
I have some scepticism about whether this case involved rape.
Once, it's rape, twice, maybe still rape. Thousands of times, maybe there's something else going on. Sometimes rapists are able to control their victims enough to allow multiple assaults - handcuffs, or a threat to kill the mother, for example. But it is fashionable, and dead wrong, to describe all intergenerational sex as rape. I'm making a semantic point here, talking about what the right label is. Underage sex isn't arson. Calling people who have underage sex arsonists clouds the issue. I am not condoning underage sex. I'm suggesting that mislabeling it as rape or arson clouds the issue and prevents clear thinking. It unfairly stigmatizes the victim to say that's she's been raped, if she hasn't. And if she realy was raped lots of times, it misrepresents her experience to lump it in with underage sex generally. Both are serious crimes and serious social problems - but not the same crime. Precision matters here.
Now, maybe we reach the same conclusions about this case regardless of which crime is involved. Should criminals be awarded full scholarships to crime colleges? What standard of review should be used to review unpopular sentencing decisions? What are the separation of powers concerns under the Vermont constitution? The post raises a number of interesting issues which engage both people's reason and emotions. I'm suggesting we can think more clearly about those issues if we avoid misrepresenting the facts of the case.
Like what? Every time a 7-year-old "has sex with" an adult (I have to put that in quotes, because it ain't sex, ever), it's rape. I have a friend who was raped, repeatedly, over a four-year period, by her stepfather. And yes, every one of the times was "rape."
And I don't think there's any way of misconstruing your remarks.
First and foremost, frankcross is absolutely correct. We don't know how accurate or complete the initial news reports are.
I served a brief time as a criminal prosecutor and this case bares an number of tragic similarities to a case that I worked on...hence my interest.
Mandatory minimum sentences (and accuracy in describing sentences) have their good points and their bad points. It is ludicrous for a non-violent minor drug offender to get a longer minimum sentence than a violent criminal. Sometimes it seems that the political agenda of various politicians, combined with their limited focus, results in specific attention to certain crimes (and disregard of other, more serious crimes).
We need boundaries on the discretion of judges when it comes to sentencing. This can either be handled with sentencing guidelines, or with a mechanism for review.
It looks as if the judge wanted to get the defendant into therapy as soon as possible...so he suspended most of the sentence. The scary part is that the defendant will be free to rape again. I have heard that child violators are more likely to re-offend, but I can't cite statistics. The only good that could come is that if the defendant violates the terms of his release, he could end up in prison for life...but that may be too late if there is another victim.
60 days looks like an outrage, no matter what the judge's reasoning. The classification of this defendant as a "low risk offender" is bizzare! The judge chose treatment over imprisonment...most of us probably think that the defendant should have gotten both...but it appears that if we had to choose, we would choose a long stay in prison over therapy. The judge chose differently.
Final point: Vermont judges are appointed, with periodic retention votes by the state legislature.
A market system of law would allow both parties to agree on a judge, and to haggle the sentence down to something both could accept. A just judge would do the most business, because both parties would recognize his sentences as proportionate.
After all, what is the appropriate sentence for someone who molests a 7 year old? An 8 year old? A 9 year old?
How should the sentence scale with repeat offenses on the same victim?
What's the appropriate sentence for dealing a gram of crack?
I don't have any answers to these questions. But I'm pretty sure that while we can all say "too much" or "too little" in the relative sense, none of us (and I include judges in that) has any real basis for determining in absolute terms the "just" sentence for any particular combination of offender and offense.
This is what I liked about the sentencing guidelines. The introduced the twin virtues of consistency and predictability into a system which otherwise had no virtues at all.
The non-violent drug offender getting 5 year minimum would be an example of a guideline that is misset and if people feel that it is too harsh of a sentence, then the voters, through their elected representatives, can change the law. I write this as a libertarian, who wants all or most drug laws abolished.
The question is whether or not judges should have the discretion to change sentencing rather than whether a particular sentencing statute achieved the best result. Sure, sentencing guidelines are often wrong. But, the correct remedy to that problem is to use the democratic process to affect change. It seems as though judges in this country have free reign to do as they wish (for example, their capricious and arbitrary use of contempt of court, but that's for another time).
What is the purpose of judges? To make sure that trials are conducted in the proper manner, that evidence that does not belong does not get in, that civil liberties of the defendant are not violated, etc. But it seems that at least some kind of guidelines are necessary (e.g. no suspended sentences for child molesters).
Now, among the goals of the penal system (not the only goals) ought to be justice for the victims and making sure that he/she does not inflict his/her crimes on society for a long time. Not saying these are the only goals, but any penal system I or most people would say is worthy of that name ought to include these two among its goals. If the guy serves 60 days and gets out and never does it again, then the penal system has succeeded in its second goal, but failed in the first. If the guy serves 60 days, gets out and rapes another girl and then gets incarcerated for life, then justice was served, but he has inflicted another awful disgusting crime on society. Either way, the 60 day suspended sentence does not cut it.
Time has proven the wisdom of my wife's decision. Now that she lives Alabama, she is greatly relieved to find a much different and much better culture overall -- one that cares enough for women and children to provide a much safer environment for them.
There are many reasons for a better justice system in Alabama, but at least two of them are relevant for "rehabilitating" judges like this one in the article above:
(1) direct elections of judges every six years.
(2) no limits on individual campaign contributions from in or out of state.
The Vermont system seems to be a good idea actually: the governor appoints the judge and the state legislature periodically votes to retain. All that remains is an appropriate disciplinary system so that judges who get carried away can be pulled back in.
As for Alabama Attorney's second proposal...I live in Ohio and just weathered a campaign where there was a large amount of out-of-state money supporting an issue on the ballot. The issue LOST, but I still have an uncomfortable feeling about this. Afterall, if the local mainstream media support the issue, they can choose to downplay the fact that money is coming in from out of state.
I am reading THE POWER BROKER right now, about Bob Moses and New York City. Moses was the head of a commission charged with creating state parks on Long Island. He violated state law and seized private land from its owners. The NYC newspapers, most notably the NY Times, supported Moses and chose to downplay the fact that his actions were illegal (bury that detail in a small sentence on page A-26 and the like). A politician or political committee can be as dirty as it wants, if it knows the media is going to look the other way.
The blogosphere helps fight some of this. Still, my concern may be excessive.
I don't see how you can make a comment about CA laws being mild on people who molest children. I personally know someone who was threatened by police (who believed he was doing something illegal with drugs but couldn't catch him) that if he didn't leave the state they would nail him for whatever they could. After having proof at trial that the arresting officer had harrassed the two girls parents (one just released from prison and the other on parole or probation) for more than a month before any charges were even considered. And having one of the children apologize to him at trial, on top of the judge asking the defending attorney why she wasn't objecting to some of the prosecutors evidence, she then sentenced him to 18 years. Then after that,long past the supposed legal time to change a sentence they lengthened the amount of the sentence he would have to serve. Now rather than serve 11 years of the sentence he will have to serve 16. He's already done 11 years. So I fail to see California being mild on child molesting, or maybe they are only serious about it when it's a trumped up charge and the defendant has no money.
Tragedy is a huge overstatement. Most federal judges still stick to the Guidelines in the great majority of cases.
You're conflating two separate issues. There's nothing inherently inconsistent about having a Guidelines type system where the factual underpinnings are determined by a jury rather than a judge. The problem with the Guidelines is that they had the factual underpinnings determined by a judge. If I recall correctly, the Court has not said there would be a Constitutional problem with having the same Guidelines we do now, but with the factual underpinnings grounding a sentence determined by a jury rather than a judge.
There are many reasons for a better justice system in Alabama (than California), but at least two of them are relevant for "rehabilitating" judges like this one in the article above:
(1) direct elections of judges every six years.
(2) no limits on individual campaign contributions from in or out of state.
Yeah, that great system made Roy Moore Chief Justice of Alabama. No doubt he has very pronounced opinions on the proper role of women in society.
What happens in this system when the proper legal result is highly unpopular politically? Is it the judge's job to render the proper legal decision, or the highly popular one? If the former, what is the purpose of making that judge directly responsible to the electorate? The great majority of judicial decisions are of no interest at all to the public (they'd rather watch paint dry than read most of what courts are called upon to write about) but every now and then they must render decisions on highly controversial issues, and sometimes those decisions are going to be very unpopular with the electorate. In those situations, you can have legally correct decisions, or you can have popular ones, and if you have elected judges, you're choosing the latter. I prefer a system in which the judge's job is to apply the law, not appeal to the voters.
My wife moved out of California about 15 years ago for two reasons. First, because of the growing perversion of justice (calling good evil and evil good), and second (and related to the first), because of the unwillingness to end what is truly an "invasion" by illegals intent on reconquering land they believe stolen from their ancestors.
Time has proven the wisdom of my wife's decision. Now that she lives Alabama, she is greatly relieved to find a much different and much better culture overall -- one that cares enough for women and children to provide a much safer environment for them.
There are many reasons for a better justice system in Alabama, but at least two of them are relevant for "rehabilitating" judges like this one in the article above:
(1) direct elections of judges every six years.
(2) no limits on individual campaign contributions from in or out of state.
We have voted on our judges in California since the progressive era. In fact, California was one of the first states to vote on their judges, as well as institute a variety of other progressive measures.
As a Californian who has voted on their judges, I can tell you I do not find the system to actually be accountable to the electorate. Due to the ethics in the judicial system, which requies a candidate for a judgeship to remain silent on issues that could confront them, a person is not able to get a sense of who that judge will be. A person cannot understand the candidate's opinion's on issues that are critical to the judiicial system like victim's rights, punitive damages or a variety of other issues that are within a judge's discretion to decide. All the information a voter can receive is the candidate's resume and their ABA rating. I have personally e-mailed and called judges at the information they provided to the CA Secretary of State and all the candidate said is that they can't speak to my concerns.
I think California should go to a system where the judges are picked by the governor, confirmed by the legislature and reconfirmed by the legislature. If a judge does something truly dispicable, believe the legislators will hear about it.
Noah
The Supreme Court, in Minn. GOP v White, held that if we're going to elect judges they have to be allowed to campaign. But that decision is only slowly filtering down to change the process of judicial elections. When I ran for judge the censorship bothered me, so I'm pleased by the court's decision and displeased by the continuing resistance to it.
The other side of the coin is that folks like the Brennan Center worry that people like Abramov (sp)or Bill Gates will go around buying up judges. It's a legitimate concern, to which censorship is the wrong answer.
Legislators aren't in a good position to decide individual cases. Cases have nuances, unforseeable twists and turns that bright line rules don't allow for. Whether the discretion lies with a jury or a judge, justice requires that discretion be applied in actual cases. Yes,there's a downside that people might get harsher sentences for being ugly or poor or some arbitrary factor, but removing discretion creates more problems than it fixes. IMO.
Are you saying that the ethics and the law now allows candidates for judicial opinions to express their position on issues of the judiciary? Or are you saying that they are able to campaign and promote themselves?
If you are saying the latter, then I do not see any substantive difference between the system before the case and after. Could you please clarify it for me.
Noah
I can see that sentencing would be more in line with popular feeling if judges had a preview of TV commentary and were told they should sentence in line with the factoids, rather than the facts as they came out in court. But (even following this happy idea from long-dead regimes), isn't the critical problem in this case that the Corrections Department tried to tie the hands of the court by refusing to give treatment that was thought on the facts of the case to be needed to minimise the risk for the future?
I lean very much to judicial discretion, but no matter how much you justify it the judge did the suspend the sentence of a man who raped a seven year-old to two months.
Noah
Nick
If the legal system is so concerned about all that is legal and just, and abhors vigilantiism. Then the legal system needs to fix itself, or, they have no right to bitch about undue intrusions. Because, they brought it on all by themselves
The laws are supposed to reflect the majority. Yet the judiciary is supposed to be independent of any influence and fairly interpret the law.
Noah
This is a problem with ANY term shorter than life - the judge MAY be tempted to rule in a certain way to please whoever re-elects/re-appoints them, and the voters is only one such group. In fact, if you have to choose a group (that is you don't appoint for life AND you allow re-election/appointment), then the voters would probably be the best one.
"I have some scepticism about whether this case involved rape."
Then you are either completely naive regarding children or a sick f--- pedophile yourself. Hopefully the former, as that situation is much, MUCH easier to correct. Pedophilia has an incredibly high recidivism rate, even among those who honestly claim they want to change.
How does this qualify as "fairly interpret the law"?
Never said that. Never made the suggestion. Never even thought that. I can see that you have not read the entire thread. Where I said this was rape, where I said this made me think seriously about my position on guidelines and where I rebuked a person who questioned this rape. A PERSON WHO RAPES A CHILD DESERVES SERIOUS PUNISHMENT, IF NOT LIFE EVERY TIME. What I said was that judges interpret the law. Judges are supposed to interpret it well, if they don't, like in this case, there are recourses, such as impeachment and appeal.
Noah